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Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:15pm On Aug 27, 2018 |
Romans 7:18_ For I know that in me(that is' in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good that I find not. This verse over the years have been used to teach that the new creation has double nature. It has also been used to teach that is normal for believers to struggle with sin. Let's converse brethren. Did JESUS CHRIST save/free us from sin or not? Those inside the air-craft do not struggle with gravity, because the law of aero-dynamic has freed them from it. According to multitude of scriptures we have been freed(Rom6:18,) Does it makes sense to still be struggling with something that I have been freed from? Is Apostle Paul talking about his struggle with sin after he has been freed from it by grace through Jesus? Or is he talking about his personal struggle with the law and sin before he met grace? Or grace met him. Let's discuss. Take mote of the context of his argument and how Romans 7 begins.. 1 Like |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:31pm On Aug 27, 2018 |
Solite, Jiggaz, AlexRi, Ichuka, Janeyinspires/ MuttleyLaff, ScienceWatch, Johnw47 and all who has something edifying to say. Let's reason together. May the Holy Spirit convict and convince us of the truth, that is the absolute mind of the Father in Jesus name. Amen! |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by MuttleyLaff: 9:52pm On Aug 27, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:I know that nothing good lives in me; that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature. Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it. - Romans 7:18 At face value, this is a very poignant and emotional verse. Reading the verse caused me to water my eyes but we thank God, for Jesus I was once fascinated about how and why Peter was able to walk on water Also was intrigued about why the water stopped holding Peter up and what caused him to fall. God is an attentive listener, and so, as usual didn't disappoint leading me to answers or vice versa. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by enilove(m): 10:00pm On Aug 27, 2018 |
Paul was talking about when he was following the law and how he discovered that he could not do those things required by the law until he accepted Jesus Christ . The conclusion of that passage is in the next chapter 8 : Romans 8:1-14 KJV There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. [9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. [12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. [13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. [14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Paul was emphasizing on the reason why the law needed replacement by the death of Jesus . He there4 used himself as an example that when he was following the law he found it hard to be obedient to the laws . From the beginning , it reads thus : Romans 7:5-7 KJV For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. [7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. AFTER PAUL ACCEPTED JESUS HE NEVER STRUGGLED WITH SIN AGAIN. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 11:22pm On Aug 27, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Have you heard about the "historical present" which I believe apostle Paul was employing here. "That is saying something that is past in a present tense to make it vivid." |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 11:27pm On Aug 27, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb: |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by Nobody: 12:07am On Aug 28, 2018 |
thanks for your mention, My view concerning this issue and indeed the biblical view is that, yes when a when a man is born again he is a new creature but he has a choice to walk in this new nature or not. Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. note that the unsaved man does not have the Spirit so Paul isn't talking about the unsaved man. in the early church Paul had to caution a lot of believers, against living like unbelivers and we are told as believers to put on the new man Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: A believer will struggle with sin if he does not come to terms with his new status. Again as believers we grow into the image of Christ as we focus on him, 2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Romans 8:8-13 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. naturally, we are pulled towards sin but the presence of Christ in us have broken that power but we have a choice to live after the flesh or after the Spirit. 1 Like |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by MuttleyLaff: 7:24am On Aug 28, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:I concur with you that Paul made that remark using the historical present and that is why I found the verse very poignant and emotional to the extent it caused me to water my eyes. What a wretched and heartbroken being we are in that corrupted state "Does it makes sense to still be struggling with something that I have been freed from?" you asked Well, not everybody has the good sense of not putting themselves in fatal positions and/or compromising situations Go open the plane door, whilst in air, and see how the law of suction and gravity will make legally null and void the law of aerodynamics. Paul, in the whole of Romans chapter 7, was merely setting the stage up for what he is in Romans chapter 8, about living in the spirit, going to talk about I tried to isolate parts in Romans chapter 8 to quote from, but couldnt, because after the depressing, upsetting and dispiriting Romans chapter 7, the entire Romans chapter 8, is relevant, inspiring, encouraging, comforting and reassuring 1 Like |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 7:40am On Aug 28, 2018 |
Beautiful opinion Sol. But what do you think about Rom7:14-25? Is Paul expressing his struggle with sin after he got saved by grace, or before he got saved? Do you think a believer is sold out to sin? |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by MuttleyLaff: 7:58am On Aug 28, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:Paul isnt , in the past or after, expressing a struggle. Rom 7:14-25 is part of a narrative before the good enough to raise someone's spirit Romans 8 bloodofthelamb, you need to state and/or describe exactly what sin is that you're talking about or what sin is that caught your interest People dont have to struggle with a certain sin before yielding to it. On the other hand, some people do have sin(s), they struggle with, which they are trying to avoid or wish they dont commit |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:22am On Aug 28, 2018 |
[quote author=MuttleyLaff Go open the plane door, whilst in air, and see how the law of suction and gravity will make legally null and void the law of aerodynamics. \Quote/ Bro this is why Jesus Christ layed much emphasis on we abiding steadfastly in Him. For without Him we are nothing but victim to the law of sin and death. We see this in Peter. Peter worked on water while abiding in Jesus Christ, but the moment his focus shifted he began to sink. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by enilove(m): 9:02am On Aug 28, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb: Are you saying that Paul lost focus on Jesus at a point in his ministry? |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by Nobody: 9:49am On Aug 28, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:I don't think Paul is just describing himself, he uses Romans 7:14-25 to illustrate the sin nature of man and how frustrating it is to live obediently under the law. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by Nobody: 9:53am On Aug 28, 2018 |
[quote author=enilove post=70677842][/quote] No, Paul was using what he was, to give an illustration of the sin nature of man in relation to God's law. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by Nobody: 10:18am On Aug 28, 2018 |
Romans 7:1, 5-25 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.. so Paul finally gets his rescue in Jesus, because Jesus has rescued him from condemnation through his death and resurrection. Romans 8:2-3 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by enilove(m): 10:23am On Aug 28, 2018 |
solite3: Thanks. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 10:34am On Aug 28, 2018 |
[quote author=enilove post=70677842][/quote] I said no such thing, enilove. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 11:22am On Aug 28, 2018 |
solite3: Thank you! This is also my thought. But so many people misunderstood Paul. I have read so many articles on this verse talking about how the great apostle Paul was struggling with sin; doing things he doesn't want to do. This is why I opened this thread. muttleyLaff. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 12:09pm On Aug 28, 2018 |
solite3: This is exactly the point I am trying to bring to light. Thanks for rightly dividing the word of truth. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by MuttleyLaff: 4:02pm On Aug 28, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:Like mentioned in my earlier post, Romans Chapter 7 is a preamble to Romans Chapter 8. It is when Romans Chapter 7 is read in isolation that any will think it is talking about Paul struggling with sin or doing things he doesn't want to do. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by Goshen360(m): 6:04pm On Aug 28, 2018 |
Many times when you or one read or study Paul's letter, you have to understand when he's referring to sin AS TO THE NATURE OF SIN OR THE SIN NATURE vs when he's referring to sin AS YOUR ACTION. One might to double check and tripple check to be sure. My little cent and good job guys that you're all doing. Kudos! 1 Like |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by ajay555: 6:58pm On Aug 28, 2018 |
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Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 7:36pm On Aug 28, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Ok sir. Thanks! We are of one mind. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by ichuka(m): 10:56pm On Aug 28, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:Jus saw these today will respond by His Grace later |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by ichuka(m): 12:12am On Aug 29, 2018 |
Romans7:18..New International Version For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. The verse is self explanatory. HOW CAN HE DO/ACT BY THE WILL OF THE FLESH WHEN HE HAVE BEEN WHOLLY CRUCIFIED? All His good/bad ACTS by the flesh results to death so what's the point WILLING GOOD DEEDS IN THE FLESH? For instance you "BLOODOFTHELAMB" is OP surname.the OP didn't chose that name,he was born into the family of BLOODOFTHELAMB ,so OP name is BLOODOFTHELAMB,which he didn't chose,if OP decide to be a priest,pastor,doctor,governor,yahoo boy,or a president today he's still a BLOODOFTHELAMB. For those GOOD THINGS Paul talked about are from the fresh.he can't do them anymore becaus he's dead to them.even if the flesh raises something GOOD,since he's above them and lives and obeys a new Spirit.hes handicap to there wills in his life. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by ichuka(m): 1:16am On Aug 29, 2018 |
No matter how GOOD our natural intentions are it's still no GOOD ENOUGH. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by jiggaz(m): 4:46pm On Aug 29, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:Good evening bro.. Sorry am just seeing this. I have been offline for some days now.... Well below is my answer to your question. It's an article by Paul Ellis and it details everything i wanted to say. Please read it... Have you seen the pearl of wisdom hidden in Romans 7? Many miss it because they view the chapter as “not written for me” or as a mere prelude to chapter 8. This is a shame because if you can grasp what Paul says in Romans 7, it will save you a world of hurt. “Just remind me, what’s Romans 7 about?” I hear you ask. Romans 7 is where Paul says this: https://www.nairaland.com/4111049/romans-7-flesh-test-paul |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by jiggaz(m): 4:53pm On Aug 29, 2018 |
solite3:Beautiful explanation!! Thank you so much my brother.... This is exactly what i am trying to say in that article i posted down there.... God bless you... |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by AlexRi(f): 2:05pm On Aug 30, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb:Just saw this now. I have not been online for a while. I will reply when digest the op. Thanks Bro, keep up the good work. Christ is magnify. |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by Janeyinspires(f): 6:52pm On Sep 04, 2018 |
bloodofthelamb: Bet we are still reasoning together,bloodofthelamb. My submission: Paul was trying to explain what took place with the Christian(believer) when Christ died and resurrected, from the beginning of chapter 7. There, he was telling believers how the law has power over those who are living. But as believers, we are no longer living by virtue of Jesus' death representing our death.And His resurrection bringing us into another life. A new life all entirely, setting us free from the law. According to message translation, Rom 7:8, "Don't you remember how it was? I do, perfectly well." Paul took us down memory lane by using the present tense to narrate what happened to him when he was still under the law. I had this experience Paul was narrating.It was when I was yet to come to terms with what Christ has already accomplished for me,by abolishing in his flesh the law(See Ephesians 2:15). Then I was depending on the flesh, my own effort to keep God's command. But I couldn't.I never knew then that the flesh doesn't have that capacity.It was quite funny then because I said a prayer to God.Told Him I wanted to be done with sin entirely. But grace was revealed to me and the struggle stopped. Believers struggle with sin when they don't know what Christ accomplished for them on the cross and who they are,NOW in Christ. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Did Apostle Paul Struggle With Sin After He Got Saved According To Romans 7:18 by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:19pm On Sep 04, 2018 |
Janeyinspires God bless you. May grace and peace be multiplied unto you. This has been my stand and conviction. The more we come to terms with who we are now in Christ, the more we are transformed. |
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