He abolished the Jewish Law with its commandments and rules, in order to create out of the two races one new people in union with himself, in this way making peace.
Ephesians 2:15 GNB
http://bible.com/296/eph.2.15.GNB

Abeg moG, no let them our law keepers catch you with this message oooo....you know we can't do away with the whole law and mosaic legal system....we have to keep some for our own benefits or good....

And another argue I often hear from so called Christian's is, if the law was abolished, why do Paul still quote the law to buttress his teachings to Christian if he Paul was indeed teaching the law abolished.

What saith ye?

Numbers23 :19

christemmbassey:
He abolished the Jewish Law with its commandments and rules, in order to create out of the two races one new people in union with himself, in this way making peace.
Ephesians 2:15 GNB
http://bible.com/296/eph.2.15.GNB

The law says "thou shall not kill ". Can a christian now kill ?

enilove:


The law says "thou shall not kill ". Can a christian now kill ?

Roman 13:8-10

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

You don't need the law of moses to stop you from killing or committing murder....What you need is AGAPE LOVE!

The love of God!

enilove:


The law says "thou shall not kill ". Can a christian now kill ?

Jesus came to solve the problems of sin, the law say " thou shall not kill" . so what causes murder ?

in this verses Jesus is talking about the intents of the law:

Matthew 5 :21-22

Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is ANGRY with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Anger cause murder, so instead of " thou shall not kill" Jesus command us not to be angry with our brother.

christemmbassey:
He abolished the Jewish Law with its commandments and rules, in order to create out of the two races one new people in union with himself, in this way making peace.
Ephesians 2:15 GNB
http://bible.com/296/eph.2.15.GNB

So why is oyedepo n adeboye still collecting tithe? ?

openmine:


Roman 13:8-10



You don't need the law of moses to stop you from killing or committing murder....What you need is AGAPE LOVE!

The love of God!

Excellent reply and let me add this to help our brother:

enilove:


The law says "thou shall not kill ". Can a christian now kill ?

For sin was in the world before the Law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Romans 5v13.

So BEFORE the thou shall not commit adultery came, Joseph flew from Potiphar's wife right? What law or part of law or 10 commandments told him thou shall not commit adultery? Before though shall not kill came, people like Job, Abraham and those who were upright before God did not kill? What law or part of 10 commandments told them not to?

So therefore you don't need the 10 commandments to tell you though shall not BEFORE you do the right things BECAUSE PEOPLE ALREADY DID THE RIGHT THINGS BEFORE THE THOU SHALL NOT WAS GIVEN. How did they do the right things then even without the thou shall not or thou shall...? It's is simple, by the Spirit or living the life of the (or in the) Spirit.

openmine:


Roman 13:8-10



You don't need the law of moses to stop you from killing or committing murder....What you need is AGAPE LOVE!

The love of God!

Jesus did not say that other laws are now abolished. He only emphasized the importance of love in our lives :

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus told us that he did not come to abolish the laws.
He even added to the laws. Before , until you commit adultery, you are not a sinner. But now , Jesus said lusting after a woman is now a sin of adultery.

Is that not additional law ?

Before you can be angry with someone and not be seen as a murderer , but Jesus added ANGER to it .

Why did God kill Anannais and Sapphira ?
Because they lied not because they did not love .

If love is all that is required of a christian , the fruit of the Holy Spirit needed would have been only LOVE.
But what says the Bible in Gal 5: 19-22 ?

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And for you to have these fruits of the Spirit , you must have crucified your flesh. How does one crucifies the flesh ?
By observing or not doing what God says you should not do.
These are the Laws :

Gal. :5 19-21.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

It is when you obey the voice of the Holy Spirit whenever He cautions you not to envy, strife , not to commit adultery, to reject adolatry etc , you are being led by the Holy Spirit.And then you can receive the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

You must obey the laws but not the statutes of shedding the blood of animals ,as rituals needed to be holy , according to the laws.

malvisguy212:
Jesus came to solve the problems of sin, the law say " thou shall not kill" . so what causes murder ?

in this verses Jesus is talking about the intents of the law:

Matthew 5 :21-22

Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is ANGRY with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Anger cause murder, so instead of " thou shall not kill" Jesus command us not to be angry with our brother.

These your post just confirms that the laws are not abolished but upgraded :

Matthew 5:20-22 KJV
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

AND B4 THESE VERSES JESUS SAID HIS PRESENCE WAS NOT TO ABOLISH THE LAWS BUT TO FULFILL THEM. HE ALSO CAUTIONED US NOT TO TEACH OTHER WISE.

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

enilove:


Jesus did not say that other laws are now abolished. He only emphasized the importance of love in our lives :

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus told us that he did not come to abolish the laws.
He even added to the laws. Before , until you commit adultery, you are not a sinner. But now , Jesus said lusting after a woman is now a sin of adultery.

Is that not additional law ?

Before you can be angry with someone and not be seen as a murderer , but Jesus added ANGER to it .

Why did God kill Anannais and Sapphira ?
Because they lied not because they did not love .

If love is all that is required of a christian , the fruit of the Holy Spirit needed would have been only LOVE.
But what says the Bible in Gal 5: 19-22 ?

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And for you to have these fruits of the Spirit , you must have crucified your flesh. How does one crucifies the flesh ?
By observing or not doing what God says you should not do.
These are the Laws :

Gal. :5 19-21.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

It is when you obey the voice of the Holy Spirit whenever He cautions you not to envy, strife , not to commit adultery, to reject adolatry etc , you are being led by the Holy Spirit.And then you can receive the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

You must obey the laws but not the statutes of shedding the blood of animals ,as rituals needed to be holy , according to the laws.

Good morning!

You cannot choose which law to obey and which law to leave out!

The law of moses is holist and trying to pick one to obey is being guilty of the other laws of moses!
Galatians 5:1-3
James 2:10-12

The scripture u put down actually validates the scripture that I stated..

Question is what is "fulfillment" in the Matthew 5:17?

Why did romans 13:8-12 emphasis the SUMMATION of ALL the laws of moses into ONE SINGLE LAW which is LOVE?

Now let's understand the word fulfillment and how it was used in both Matthew 5:17 and romans 13:8-12

Based on strong man's dictionary, the Greek name for fulfill is
plēroō

which means "bring to completion", "to accomplish a purpose"....
other definitions of pleroo have different meanings in the scripture but knowing their usage will enable you understand its direction!

So when Christ said he was "fulfilling" the laws,he was actually meant bringing the law to it's completion,or accomplishing the purpose of the law....

Hence Love was a "completion of the laws of moses" based on romans 13:8-10
In other words,the law has accomplished its purpose hence has been brought to completion.... giving rise to a better law which is LOVE!

This is made more explicit when you read Galatians 3:23-29

Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Children of God Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.

So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

ONE OF(IF NOT) the purpose of the coming of Christ was to bring to completion the laws and practices of moses...hence,it was unwise of him to "abolish" it at that point in time until his death and resurrection!

If Christ did not abolish the law like you said,why did the scripture regard the law of moses as imperfect, weak and obsolete... even useless in Hebrews 7:11-28


Hebrews 7:18
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the LAW made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Also remember that the no scripture is of private interpretation.... any scripture rendered must have its corresponding scripture for comprehension!

if I may ask.....
Do we use the blood of goats and cows as sin offering?
Do we circumcise?
Do we burn incense based on the laws of moses?

James said in James 2:10-11

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of BREAKING ALL OF IT. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.


.....and to correct some impressions alluded to...
Ananias and his wife lied to keep some money which eventually led to their death but that was because they wanted to look "right" before God and men!
This is what the law brings or creates...."self-righteousness"

Had they known about the love of God,they would have offered what they had without having to lie!
....and besides,peter told him it was Ananias money and he was at leisure to give or not to give!

The scripture in Galatians 5 that you quoted also is actually a follow up of the post law era where the "Christ law" is now our guardian instead of the laws of moses! Galatians 6:2;5:22-23
Like I said initially,start reading Galatians 1-5 for better understanding of how the law gave way to the law of the spirit of life!

Galatians 5:22-23
Ephesians 2
Hebrews 7,8,9
Galatians 5

openmine:

Good morning!

You cannot choose which law to obey and which law to leave out!

The law of moses is holist and trying to pick one to obey is being guilty of the other laws of moses!
Galatians 5:1-3
James 2:10-12

The scripture u put down actually validates the scripture that I stated..

Question is what is "fulfillment" in the Matthew 5:17?

Why did romans 13:8-12 emphasis the SUMMATION of ALL the laws of moses into ONE SINGLE LAW which is LOVE?

Now let's understand the word fulfillment and how it was used in both Matthew 5:17 and romans 13:8-12

Based on strong man's dictionary, the Greek name for fulfill is
plēroō

which means "bring to completion", "to accomplish a purpose"....
other definitions of pleroo have different meanings in the scripture but knowing their usage will enable you understand its direction!

So when Christ said he was "fulfilling" the laws,he was actually meant bringing the law to it's completion,or accomplishing the purpose of the law....

Hence Love was a "completion of the laws of moses" based on romans 13:8-10
In other words,the law has accomplished its purpose hence has been brought to completion.... giving rise to a better law which is LOVE!

This is made more explicit when you read Galatians 3:23-29


ONE OF(IF NOT) the purpose of the coming of Christ was to bring to completion the laws and practices of moses...hence,it was unwise of him to "abolish" it at that point in time until his death and resurrection!

If Christ did not abolish the law like you said,why did the scripture regard the law of moses as imperfect, weak and obsolete... even useless in Hebrews 7:11-28


Hebrews 7:18
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the LAW made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Also remember that the no scripture is of private interpretation.... any scripture rendered must have its corresponding scripture for comprehension!

if I may ask.....
Do we use the blood of goats and cows as sin offering?
Do we circumcise?
Do we burn incense based on the laws of moses?

James said in James 2:10-11

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of BREAKING ALL OF IT. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.


.....and to correct some impressions alluded to...
Ananias and his wife lied to keep some money which eventually led to their death but that was because they wanted to look "right" before God and men!
This is what the law brings or creates...."self-righteousness"

Had they known about the love of God,they would have offered what they had without having to lie!
....and besides,peter told him it was Ananias money and he was at leisure to give or not to give!

The scripture in Galatians 5 that you quoted also is actually a follow up of the post law era where the "Christ law" is now our guardian instead of the laws of moses! Galatians 6:2;5:22-23
Like I said initially,start reading Galatians 1-5 for better understanding of how the law gave way to the law of the spirit of life!

Galatians 5:22-23
Ephesians 2
Hebrews 7,8,9
Galatians 5

Is this a law or not :

Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

enilove:


Is this a law or not :

Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

sorry for asking a question for your question but was Jesus under the law of moses before he died?
Did he observe the laws of moses while he was in his human body?

Your honest reply will answer your question...

Furthermore,LOVE is much more equipped than the law.....

Christ was only trying to show how weak and imperfect the law was....

let me explain....You shall not commit adultery....however,christ is emphasising the fact that for a sin to be committed,a thought must have provoked the outcome....
Hence,those who killed or committed adultery did so because they had already thought or done so in their heart before the actual deed took place....

Jesus only made more explanations to that law so that people will see how weak the law was....he never made a new law from it at that period!

Secondly there is no need for us to derail the purpose of discus....
The question is.....do believers still observe or must they use the laws of moses as a justification or as a guide?

openmine:

sorry for asking a question for your question but was Jesus under the law of moses before he died?
Did he observe the laws of moses while he was in his human body?

Your honest reply will answer your question...

Furthermore,LOVE is much more equipped than the law.....

Christ was only trying to show how weak and imperfect the law was....

let me explain....You shall not commit adultery....however,christ is emphasising the fact that for a sin to be committed,a thought must have provoked the outcome....
Hence,those who killed or committed adultery did so because they had already thought or done so in their heart before the actual deed took place....

Jesus only made more explanations to that law so that people will see how weak the law was....

Secondly there is no need for us to derail the purpose of discus....
The question is.....do believers still observe or must they use the laws of moses as a justification or as a guide?

It least I know Jesus observed Passover

enilove:


Is this a law or not :

Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Brother, it is NOT A LAW.

You have to keep reading what happened to understand why Christ was making it look HARDER THAN JUST COMMITTING ADULTRY.

We use scriptures to understand or interpret another scripture. When you read scripture like "Christ is the END of the law to everyone that believes...." Romans 10v4 you understand what Christ was doing to those Jews in his time.

Let me help you out. The Jews was given the law of Moses NOT CHRISTIANS. The church or body of Christ is made of GENTILES and the JEWS. The gentiles were never given the mosaic law (Romans 2v14). These Jews so much pride in the Mosaic law to the point the elevated the law more than what it was intended to do.

So when you see or read Christ interpret the law and make it harder like the verse you quoted, He was making them COME TO THE END OF THEMSELVES AND SEE A NEED FOR HIM CHRIST AS THE SAVIOUR. Christ did the same to the rich young ruler who said all the laws he had obeyed from Childhood but Christ interpret the law to mean, he had made money his God's and told him go sell your possession and follow me. Do we therefore make that response from Christ a A LAW OR REQUIREMENT for eternal life which was the rich man question for what he can do to have eternal life.

So Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believes is true!

jnrbayano:


It least I know Jesus observed Passover

Jesus observed ALL the laws of moses and that's because he was born under the laws of moses....
He "fulfilled" the laws of moses after he was crucified and resurrected!

With out the completion of the laws through the resurrection of Christ,we would never have been part of God!

We would still be labelled Gentiles simply because we ain't Jews!

The law,however, has its purpose(1 timothy 1: but not for "believers" to observe or use as their guide.

openmine:

sorry for asking a question for your question but was Jesus under the law of moses before he died?
Did he observe the laws of moses while he was in his human body?
Your reply will answer your question...
Secondly there is no need for us to be derail the purpose of discus....
The question is.....do believers still observe or must they use the laws of moses as a justification or as a guide?

Why are you avoiding such simple question?

Let me answer your question regarding whether believers should use the law of Moses as a justification or not.

My answer is Yes and more.

The Pharisees were counted as holy as per the laws, and Jesus told us to surpass their righteousness.

A believer should not commit sins which the Pharisees did not commit .
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Because you are a believer does not mean you can commit fornication or adultery.

Not being under the law means not under the statutes to kill goat , birds etc for atonements.
It is those blood sacrifices we are exonerated from but not law of Sin, because Jesus Christ has been made a sacrifice for us.

Let me ask you another question ;
Can a Christian sin or not ?

Goshen360:


Brother, it is NOT A LAW.

You have to keep reading what happened to understand why Christ was making it look HARDER THAN JUST COMMITTING ADULTRY.

We use scriptures to understand or interpret another scripture. When you read scripture like "Christ is the END of the law to everyone that believes...." Romans 10v4 you understand what Christ was doing to those Jews in his time.

Let me help you out. The Jews was given the law of Moses NOT CHRISTIANS. The church or body of Christ is made of GENTILES and the JEWS. The gentiles were never given the mosaic law (Romans 2v14). These Jews so much pride in the Mosaic law to the point the elevated the law more than what it was intended to do.

So when you see or read Christ interpret the law and make it harder like the verse you quoted, He was making them COME TO THE END OF THEMSELVES AND SEE A NEED FOR HIM CHRIST AS THE SAVIOUR. Christ did the same to the rich young ruler who said all the laws he had obeyed from Childhood but Christ interpret the law to mean, he had made money his God's and told him go sell your possession and follow me. Do we therefore make that response from Christ a A LAW OR REQUIREMENT for eternal life which was the rich man question for what he can do to have eternal life.

So Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believes is true!

True!

jnrbayano:


It least I know Jesus observed Passover

And that's exactly what Matthew 5vs17 was pointing to.... meaning something were wrote IN THE LAW ABOUT CHRIST which is came to fulfill and not abolish.

enilove:


Why are you avoiding such simple question?

Let me answer your question regarding whether believers should use the law of Moses as a justification or not.

My answer is Yes and more.

The Pharisees were counted as holy as per the laws, and Jesus told us to surpass their righteousness.

A believer should not commit sins which the Pharisees did not commit .
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Because you are a believer does not mean you can commit fornication or adultery.

Not being under the law means not under the statutes to kill goat , birds etc for atonements.
It is those blood sacrifices we are exonerated from but not law of Sin, because Jesus Christ has been made a sacrifice for us.

Let me ask you another question ;
Can a Christian sin or not ?

OMG!

There is soooooo much mixture in what you saying and it's against the new testament teaching and the reason you are still not getting it is simply MIXTURE.

When Christ was talking to the scribes and Pharisees....these are custodians of the law and so when he said the disciple's righteousness should or must surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees....he wasn't talking about RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW...which was what the scribes and Pharisees was performing. Christ was talking about RIGHTEOUSNESS that's imputted to you NOT BASED ON PERFORMANCE TO THE LAW.

That's the righteousness from God not what you did by obeying some sets of rules.

Romans 10v3-5 talks about RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law vs imputted righteousness of Christ

enilove:


Why are you avoiding such simple question?

I already answered the question by adding other words,check my latest writings...sorry for the mix up!
Christ only made emphasis to the law of adultery....because for sin to take place,a thought must have been in force...Hence,he was only making further explanations to the law not adding another!

enilove:

Let me answer your question regarding whether believers should use the law of Moses as a justification or not.

My answer is Yes and more.

Sorry bro...Unfortunately, your answer is wrong and insufficient!
That's because scriptures have been used to show that observance of the law only makes rubbish of the finished work on the cross!

Reference : Galatians 2
Galatians 5:22-23
Romans 10:4
Hebrews 7:13

Do you believe that there was a new covenant of which Jesus is the high priest?

enilove:

The Pharisees were counted as holy as per the laws, and Jesus told us to surpass their righteousness.

A believer should not commit sins which the Pharisees did not commit .
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Because you are a believer does not mean you can commit fornication or adultery.

Sorry bro.....that explanation is only an emphasis and not a new law created by Christ!
secondly,the laws was given to the Jews and not believers!
believers were given the law of Christ where Love is the only law given!
U don't need the law to stop you from committing adultery!
You don't need the law to stop you from sinning...
You don't need the law to stop you from killing.....
What you need is Christ perfect law which is LOVE!

enilove:

Not being under the law means not under the statutes to kill goat , birds etc for atonements.
It is those blood sacrifices we are exonerated from but not law of Sin, because Jesus Christ has been made a sacrifice for us.

first of all, do you have scripture to prove or show that there are some laws that we observe and some laws that were abolished or not done?
What about burning of incense?
I have heard this narrative for a very long time and its already stale....unfortunately, am yet to see or get a scripture that proves this analogy of yours...Please can you kindly provide scripture to prove this? Thank you!

the scripture that I provided to you says the laws were set aside because it was weak and useless!

Paul and james also made reference to those who observe some laws while leaving out others by stating clearly in Galatians 3:2 and james 2:10-12 respectively that you are guilty of all the laws if you only observe SOME while leaving out the OTHERS.

enilove:

Let me ask you another question ;
Can a Christian sin or not ?

Salvation is a state....perfection is a walk!
salvation is also a gift from God to a believer!

Its obvious for a Christian to go back to its vomit...but that doesn't mean he is condemned forever!
Even peter sinned but later repented after being chastised by Paul for neglecting the gentiles simply because he wanted to be seen as righteous in the sight of the Jews Galatians 1

Question...ever since you gave your life to christ,have you ever sinned?

Goshen360:


OMG!

There is soooooo much mixture in what you saying and it's against the new testament teaching and the reason you are still not getting it is simply MIXTURE.

When Christ was talking to the scribes and Pharisees....these are custodians of the law and so when he said the disciple's righteousness should or must surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees....he wasn't talking about RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW...which was what the scribes and Pharisees was performing. Christ was talking about RIGHTEOUSNESS that's imputted to you NOT BASED ON PERFORMANCE TO THE LAW.

That's the righteousness from God not what you did by obeying some sets of rules.

Romans 10v3-5 talks about RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law vs imputted righteousness of Christ

Can a christian fall into sin or not?

enilove:


Can a christian fall into sin or not?

Yes !

openmine:

I already answered the question by adding other words,check my latest writings...sorry for the mix up!
Christ only made emphasis to the law of adultery....because for sin to take place,a thought must have been in force...Hence,he was only making further explanations to the law not adding another!



Sorry bro...Unfortunately, your answer is wrong and insufficient!
That's because scriptures have been used to show that observance of the law only makes rubbish of the finished work on the cross!

Reference : Galatians 2
Galatians 5:22-23
Romans 10:4
Hebrews 7:13

Do you believe that there was a new covenant of which Jesus is the high priest?



Sorry bro.....that explanation is only an emphasis and not a new law created by Christ!
secondly,the laws was given to the Jews and not believers!
believers were given the law of Christ where Love is the only law given!
U don't need the law to stop you from committing adultery!
You don't need the law to stop you from sinning...
You don't need the law to stop you from killing.....
What you need is Christ perfect law which is LOVE!



first of all, do you have scripture to prove or show that there are some laws that we observe and some laws that were abolished or not done?
What about burning of incense?
I have heard this narrative for a very long time and its already stale....unfortunately, am yet to see or get a scripture that proves this analogy of yours...Please can you kindly provide scripture to prove this? Thank you!

the scripture that I provided to you says the laws were set aside because it was weak and useless!

Paul and james also made reference to those who observe some laws while leaving out others by stating clearly in Galatians 3:2 and james 2:10-12 respectively that you are guilty of all the laws if you only observe SOME while leaving out the OTHERS.


Salvation is a state....perfection is a walk!
salvation is also a gift from God to a believer!

Its obvious for a Christian to go back to its vomit...but that doesn't mean he is condemned forever!
Even peter sinned but later repented after being chastised by Paul for neglecting the gentiles simply because he wanted to be seen as righteous in the sight of the Jews Galatians 1

Question...ever since you gave your life to christ,have you ever sinned?

Are these not what the law says ?

Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Goshen360:


Yes !

How does one know which of the sins one has committed?

enilove:


Are these not what the law says ?

Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

This is almost similar to the scripture in Galatians 5:19-21
but the scripture went further by indicating the law of Christ!


Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things THERE IS NO LAW. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceit

In other words,when you know the fruits of the spirit,you don't need the law as a guide!

Do you know that knowledge of the law gave rise to more sins?
Do you also know that the law was not meant for the righteous!


However,the law has its relevance but not as a change agent but as a sign post to unbelievers!

1 timothy 1:8-11
We know that the law is good if one uses it PROPERLY. We also know that the law is made NOT for the RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.



I ask again,do you need the law of moses to stop you from committing filthiness or covetousness or becoming an idolaters?
What you need is the fruit of the spirit!

openmine:


This is almost similar to the scripture in Galatians 5:19-21
but the scripture went further by indicating the law of Christ!


Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things THERE IS NO LAW. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceit

In other words,when you know the fruits of the spirit,you don't need the law as a guide!

Do you know that knowledge of the law gave rise to more sins?
Do you also know that the law was not meant for the righteous!

1 timothy 1:8-11
We know that the law is good if one uses it PROPERLY. We also know that the law is made NOT for the RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

I ask again,do you need the law of moses to stop you from committing filthiness or covetousness or becoming an idolaters?
What you need is the fruit of the spirit!

Yes , although it might be difficult.

But the law of killing doves and others cannot save or take one to heaven.

Remember , b4 Jesus Christ came , the law was their guide and some of them were righteous and holy. But needed to accept Jesus' death to proceed further.

enilove:


Yes , although it might be difficult.

But the law of killing doves and others cannot save or take one to heaven.

Remember , b4 Jesus Christ came , the law was their guide and some of them were righteous and holy. But needed to accept Jesus' death to proceed further.

However the same law condemned others not born of the Jewish race!
Gentiles for instance!

The same law made a priest or levite to NOT help anyone at a point of death except their own family members!
King David was an ardent follower of the law to its letter yet he committed first adultery and murder!
The law in its glamour was never perfect and never brought man closer to God!
At a stage,the law created more sin than righteousness in man!

Hence God created a new covenant where Jesus was made the high priest!


Hebrews 7:11-13
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the LAW given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the LAW must be CHANGED also.

Hebrews 7: 18
The former regulation is set aside because it was WEAK and USELESS (for the LAW made nothing perfect), and a BETTER HOPE is introduced, by which WE DRAW NEAR TO GOD!

God even made it easier for us by giving us the law of LOVE!

We can try as much as we can but we can't observe ALL 614 LAWS OF MOSES without stumbling on one!

openmine:

However the same law condemned others not born of the Jewish race!
Gentiles for instance!

The same law made a priest or levite to NOT help anyone at a point of death except their own family members!
King David was an ardent follower of the law to its letter yet he committed first adultery and murder!
The law in its glamour was never perfect and never brought man closer to God!
At a stage,the law created more sin than righteousness in man!

Hence God created a new covenant where Jesus was made the high priest!


Hebrews 7:11-13
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the LAW given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the LAW must be CHANGED also.

Hebrews 7: 18
The former regulation is set aside because it was WEAK and USELESS (for the LAW made nothing perfect), and a BETTER HOPE is introduced, by which WE DRAW NEAR TO GOD!

God even made it easier for us by giving us the law of LOVE!

We can try as much as we can but we can't observe ALL 614 LAWS OF MOSES without stumbling on one!

So , a Christian can go against these laws ?

Leviticus 18:5-11,22-23 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord . [6] None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their unclothedness: I am the Lord . [7] The unclothedness of thy father, or the unclothedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness. [8] The unclothedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's unclothedness. [9] The unclothedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their unclothedness thou shalt not uncover. [10] The unclothedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their unclothedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own unclothedness. [11] The unclothedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness. [22] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. [23] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Are they to be followed by Christians or not ?

I just need a "yes" or "no' for answer.

enilove:


So , a Christian can go against these laws ?

Leviticus 18:5-11,22-23 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord . [6] None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their unclothedness: I am the Lord . [7] The unclothedness of thy father, or the unclothedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness. [8] The unclothedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's unclothedness. [9] The unclothedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their unclothedness thou shalt not uncover. [10] The unclothedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their unclothedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own unclothedness. [11] The unclothedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her unclothedness. [22] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. [23] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Are they to be followed by Christians or not ?

I just need a "yes" or "no' for answer.

Before we became believers and received Christ as our personal lord and saviour,we were shown our sinful ways which was showing us the law of moses as a sign post...
Galatians 3

However the law of moses never SAVED MANKIND but rather plunged man into more sin!

Hence while we were yet sinners,the law kept us in check...Galatians 3
However,now that Christ has been revealed we are no longer under the direction or dictates of the law!

Yes the law showed you about sexual sins as contained in the law of moses....the law also talked about sin offerings,burnt offerings,the new leaven bread offerings,and other laws as contained in the 614 laws of moses.

If the law could make you holy and righteous,there would have been no need for Christ coming!

Like I said initially, the law is a signpost but never a change agent!

The purpose of the law was to show man his sinful nature...but never a road to redemption!
Christ became our redemption!

1 timothy 1:8-10
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

Galatians 3:19-22

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one. Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not!

For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

So based on the statement of the OP,the believer does not need the law as justification or for observance!

The law of moses has been simplified to LOVE!
which is the law of Christ!

So back to your question, The answer is NO.....believers are not to abide by the laws of moses.....
The law shows us our sin,but it can never be used as a tool to make us righteous or holy!

enilove:


Why are you avoiding such simple question?

Let me answer your question regarding whether believers should use the law of Moses as a justification or not.

My answer is Yes and more.

The Pharisees were counted as holy as per the laws, and Jesus told us to surpass their righteousness.

A believer should not commit sins which the Pharisees did not commit .
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Because you are a believer does not mean you can commit fornication or adultery.

Not being under the law means not under the statutes to kill goat , birds etc for atonements.
It is those blood sacrifices we are exonerated from but not law of Sin, because Jesus Christ has been made a sacrifice for us.

Let me ask you another question ;
Can a Christian sin or not ?

Making sense. They always mix things up when it comes to the law.

St Paul made us know that we know when we sin because of the law and in another place told us to upload the law and not do away with it.

@openmine,

Are you saying David , Isaiah , Elisha , Jeremiah ,Ezekiel were not holy and were not saved? I am make reference to your statement that " the law never saved ".

Did you not read this b4 making that comment ?
Leviticus 18:5 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord .

The reason why Jesus came to die for us was to save us eternal damnation. For those who died b4 Christ , they will be judged by the law.
Likewise you and I , by our obedience to the laws and faith in Christ.

Why did Jesus said some people were holy ?
John 5:28-29 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My point is , the law was useful in showing those who died b4 Jesus the way and it is very very more important now for christian to keep them after accepting Jesus ad his saviour.

Jesus told us not to teach anyone to break them.

IF NOT FOR THE LAW , JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE COME.
IT WAS THE LAW THAT MADE MARY HOLY AND USABLE FOR THE LORD TO COME.