enilove:


Are these not what the law says ?

Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

jnrbayano:


Making sense. They always mix things up when it comes to the law.

St Paul made us know that we know when we sin because of the law and in another place told us to upload the law and not do away with it.

enilove:


How does one know which of the sins one has committed?

I see where you are focusing your argument and I can deal with it. So let me follow your logic and answer your question. So you want an answer that how a Christian know that he or she sin is by breaking a law right? That argument I already established and here is it again.

Read and understand Romans 2v14 from many translations please.

So you want to argue sin is the breaking of a law. 1 John 3v4; James 2v9 etc

BUT, remember people sinned in the Bible BEFORE the law was given.

Soooooo, if sin IS BREAKING A LAW....how can you define or say those who sinned before the law or not having the law committed sin using these verse Romans 5v13.

enilove:
@openmine,

Are you saying David , Isaiah , Elisha , Jeremiah ,Ezekiel were not holy and were not saved? I am make reference to your statement that " the law never saved ".

Did you not read this b4 making that comment ?
Leviticus 18:5 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord .

The reason why Jesus came to die for us was to save us eternal damnation. For those who died b4 Christ , they will be judged by the law.
Likewise you and I , by our obedience to the laws and faith in Christ.

Why did Jesus said some people were holy ?
John 5:28-29 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My point is , the law was useful in showing those who died b4 Jesus the way and it is very very more important now for christian to keep them after accepting Jesus ad his saviour.

Jesus told us not to teach anyone to break them.

IF NOT FOR THE LAW , JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE COME.
IT WAS THE LAW THAT MADE MARY HOLY AND USABLE FOR THE LORD TO COME.

Again, you have MIXTURES in what you teach. You are not putting the law in it's proper place and use. Yes and YES, the law had it's useful BUT ONCE IT HAS FULFILLED THAT USEFULNESS, ITS NO LONGER NEEDED. The was a schoolmaster that tutor you until you get to Christ and after you found Christ and be conformed to the image of Christ, you longer need the law brother....what are your saaayyyyying?

When a child begins to learn 123 and addition, he or uses old counters which is a representation of what the law is but when the child grow, he or she doesn't need counters or fingers to know 1+1 or 1+2 or 1+3.

The law also defines what sin IS ..... Romans 7v7.

However, you can sin without having a law and you can do the right things WITHOUT having a law you're following? Let me help you again with two examples of what's contained in the law or right and wrong but these two people never had a law of thou shall not or thou shall....

Cain killed Abel but there was a thou shall not kill.
Joseph flew ADULTRY but there was no thou shall not commit adultery. So what law did each follow or did not follow?

**** double post *****

Goshen360:






I see where you are focusing your argument and I can deal with it. So let me follow your logic and answer your question. So you want an answer that how a Christian know that he or she sin is by breaking a law right? That argument I already established and here is it again.

Read and understand Romans 2v14 from many translations please.

So you want to argue sin is the breaking of a law. 1 John 3v4; James 2v9 etc

BUT, remember people sinned in the Bible BEFORE the law was given.

Soooooo, if sin IS BREAKING A LAW....how can you define or say those who sinned before the law or not having the law committed sin using these verse Romans 5v13.

The law was written in their heart :
Romans 2:12-15 KJV
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

enilove:


The law was written in their heart :
Romans 2:12-15 KJV
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Good answer!


The is the whole point I have been trying to get you to see. If someone or people already doing the right or wrong without an existing law what then is the purpose or use of God giving the law? In other words, why then was the law given to Israel and not to YOU a Gentile?

enilove:
@openmine,

Are you saying David , Isaiah , Elisha , Jeremiah ,Ezekiel were not holy and were not saved? I am make reference to your statement that " the law never saved ".

they were not saved.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

the law never justified anybody.

Did you not read this b4 making that comment ?
Leviticus 18:5 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.

if you break one law, you have broke all, the result is death so it is not possible for the law to give life.

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

[b]The reason why Jesus came to die for us was to save us eternal damnation. For those who died b4 Christ , they will be judged by the law.[\b]
Likewise you and I , by our obedience to the laws and faith in Christ.

Jesus died to free us from the condemnation of the law, no Christian will be condemned.

God's way of justification has always been by faith.this was how all the old testament saints were justified.
the law of Christ is natural to a believer and it is faith and love coupled with true holiness.

Why did Jesus said some people were holy ?
John 5:28-29 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

holiness according to the law is outward by works, but in the new testament holiness is the Christian spiritual nature. the old testament were called holy because of their faith not because of keeping the law, for example, Abraham is holy but he did not know anything like the law of moses.those who have done good are those who were already saved. sometimes the bible uses the fruit of a something to describe it.

point is , the law was useful in showing those who died b4 Jesus the way and it is very very more important now for christian to keep them after accepting Jesus ad his saviour.

the purpose of the is to lead men to Christ so that they can be saved, the law itself saves nobody. The Christian no longer needs the law.

Jesus told us not to teach anyone to break them.

IF NOT FOR THE LAW , JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE COME.
IT WAS THE LAW THAT MADE MARY HOLY AND USABLE FOR THE LORD TO COME.

we do not preach against the law but rather, that keeping the law does not save.
lol, Mary was holy but she needed to make sacrifices for attonement? under the law one could be holy but such holiness is filthy rag as compared to God's holiness.


Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

when it comes to God's righteous judgement righteousness and holiness by works is completely useless.


Isaiah 59:6
Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.

enilove:
@openmine,

Are you saying David , Isaiah , Elisha , Jeremiah ,Ezekiel were not holy and were not saved? I am make reference to your statement that " the law never saved ".

Did you not read this b4 making that comment ?
Leviticus 18:5 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord .

The reason why Jesus came to die for us was to save us eternal damnation. For those who died b4 Christ , they will be judged by the law.
Likewise you and I , by our obedience to the laws and faith in Christ.

Why did Jesus said some people were holy ?
John 5:28-29 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

My point is , the law was useful in showing those who died b4 Jesus the way and it is very very more important now for christian to keep them after accepting Jesus ad his saviour.

Jesus told us not to teach anyone to break them.

IF NOT FOR THE LAW , JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE COME.
IT WAS THE LAW THAT MADE MARY HOLY AND USABLE FOR THE LORD TO COME.

I refer to the believers when I said the law does not save!
secondly,the law does not offer the righteousness that God wanted!
The law doesn't offer grace!
The law never offered a mediator which is Christ Jesus!

Please I would also like to ask which covenant that you are under?
Knowledge of that will save us quality time!

As for statues,the fruits of the spirit covers that aspect!
Love begets faithfulness!

Christ died to redeem us from the burden of our sins!
To create a new man with out sin or blemish!
To bring us closer to God through love! Romans 13:8-10
To bring the law and its ordinance to an end by bringing it to its conclusion through his death!

Scripture says those who adhere to the law are under a curse!
Scripture says the law's purpose was for transgression until the revealing of Christ as the saviour! Galatians 3
Scripture says the law is weak,obsolete and useless! Hebrews 7:18
How can a law that is weak and useless by God based on scripture still be relevant to believers?
Its either scripture is lying or you are not saying the truth!

It would seem that you intend to impose you understanding of the scriptures on others without getting the direction of others discourse.....
That's not how to learn scriptures!
If scriptures are shown to you,its important to check that scripture to understand its usage!

The law in its glamour was incomplete and weak,hence a better hope and law was ushered which drew believers closer to God!

Goshen360:


Good answer!


The is the whole point I have been trying to get you to see. If someone or people already doing the right or wrong without an existing law what then is the purpose or use of God giving the law? In other words, why then was the law given to Israel and not to YOU a Gentile?

The law was given to the Israelites to make them and everyone holy. Because lack of knowledge of right or wrong can kill.

The period when there was no law , the number of those worshipping idols and going to hell could not be numbered.
It was what made God to destroy the first generation and saved only Noah and his family.

The law was given to save the world.That is , to avoid the cases like that of Sodom .

I am not saying that anyone could make heaven without the death of Jesus , but that it is not only his blood that is required but our obedience to the commandments of God.

Goshen360:






I see where you are focusing your argument and I can deal with it. So let me follow your logic and answer your question. So you want an answer that how a Christian know that he or she sin is by breaking a law right? That argument I already established and here is it again.

Read and understand Romans 2v14 from many translations please.

So you want to argue sin is the breaking of a law. 1 John 3v4; James 2v9 etc

BUT, remember people sinned in the Bible BEFORE the law was given.

Soooooo, if sin IS BREAKING A LAW....how can you define or say those who sinned before the law or not having the law committed sin using these verse Romans 5v13.

Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.

Read Romans 7:7-25

I believe St Paul and John not you

jnrbayano:


Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.

Read Romans 7:7-25

I believe St Paul and John not you

That is a very good and concise post to bail me out .

More blessings and more anointing to you.

jnrbayano:


Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.

Read Romans 7:7-25

I believe St Paul and John not you

Paul also quoted the scriptures below....i hope you will still believe him after studying the following scriptures....

Hebrews 7:11-12
Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its WEAKNESS AND USELESSNESS (for the LAW made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believe.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the LAW, then Christ is DEAD IN VAIN

Galatians 3:10-11
For all who rely on works of the law are under a CURSE; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that NO ONE is justified before God by the LAW, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:19-22
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:23-25
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian(LAW)

Ephesians 2:11-15
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,


1 timothy 1:8-11
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the righteous but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

If however you choose to be part of the laws of moses and by extention be under the old covenant,you must abide by and observe all the 614 laws of moses...be reminded that if you stumble one just one law,you are guilty of all the laws

James 2:10-11
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

enilove:


That is a very good and concise post to bail me out .

More blessings and more anointing to you.

Thanks dear...we have done our bit

openmine:

Paul also quoted the scriptures below....i hope you will still believe him after studying the following scriptures....

Hebrews 7:11-12
Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Hebrews 7:18-19
For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its WEAKNESS AND USELESSNESS (for the LAW made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believe.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the LAW, then Christ is DEAD IN VAIN

Galatians 3:10-11
For all who rely on works of the law are under a CURSE; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that NO ONE is justified before God by the LAW, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:19-22
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:23-25
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian(LAW)

Ephesians 2:11-15
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,


1 timothy 1:8-11
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the righteous but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

If however you choose to be part of the laws of moses and by extention be under the old covenant,you must abide by and observe all the 614 laws of moses...be reminded that if you stumble one just one law,you are guilty of all the laws

James 2:10-11
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Non sequitur!

The law is there for a purpose, checking of lawlessness.

We don't talk about justification. The law would have justified man if and only if man can keep them all without breaking any but that is impossible. Because of that, Jesus came. The justification which we enjoy today is brought about by Jesus's salvation work.

The law is there to check lawlessness that is to tell you and I when we sin.

I don't understand how you don't understand this simple thing

jnrbayano:


Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.

Read Romans 7:7-25

I believe St Paul and John not you

You can't have a debate with a motive to learn if you have this kind of attitude. As a matter of fact, I don't expect you to believe me....I truly want you to believe that was written but don't be like that man in scripture reading and or quoting scripture but can't use another scripture to interpret scriptures quoted.

Give me time lemme explain those scriptures you quoted thinking they support that CHRISTIANS ARE BINDING TO CONTINUE TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

OMG, ITS 2018 AND WE'RE STILL HERE DEBATING WETHER OR NOT CHRISTIANS SHOULD FOLLOW THE MOSAIC LAWS WHEN IT WAS ALREADY CONCLUDED BY THE APOSTLES IN ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.

jnrbayano:


Non sequitur!

The law is there for a purpose, checking of lawlessness.

We don't talk about justification. The law would have justified man if and only if man can keep them all without breaking any but that is impossible. Because of that, Jesus came. The justification which we enjoy today is brought about by Jesus's salvation work.

The law is there to check lawlessness that is to tell you and I when we sin.

I don't understand how you don't understand this simple thing

You, I can still debate with you because you're making sense sometimes in your comments. You are right on the usefulness of the law here above BUT MY GOOD GOD, why do you have to GO BACK TO THE LAW AFTER YOU NOW HAVE CHRIST WHO CAN TEACH YOU BETTER THAN THE LAW?

The betterment of Christ OVER THE LAW IS ALL WHAT THE BOOK OF HEBREWS AND GALATIANS IS ALL ABOUT my brother. You can't teach that after one get Christ he should go back to PERFORMANCE TO THE LAW....my God, that's so wrong!

Goshen360:


You can't have a debate with a motive to learn if you have this kind of attitude. As a matter of fact, I don't expect you to believe me....I truly want you to believe that was written but don't be like that man in scripture reading and or quoting scripture but can't use another scripture to interpret scriptures quoted.

Give me time lemme explain those scriptures you quoted thinking they support that CHRISTIANS ARE BINDING TO CONTINUE TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

OMG, ITS 2018 AND WE'RE STILL HERE DEBATING WETHER OR NOT CHRISTIANS SHOULD FOLLOW THE MOSAIC LAWS WHEN IT WAS ALREADY CONCLUDED BY THE APOSTLES IN ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.

You are that person with the said attitude, that attitude is comprehension of not more than 100words

Let me make it in even fewer words.

The law is there to check LAWLESSNESS put differently, the law tells you and I when we sin.

Jesus doesn't support lawlessness
No disciple of his supported same
I will not support lawlessness my friend

Learn if you want

jnrbayano:


Non sequitur!

The law is there for a purpose, checking of lawlessness.

We don't talk about justification. The law would have justified man if and only if man can keep them all without breaking any but that is impossible. Because of that, Jesus came. The justification which we enjoy today is brought about by Jesus's salvation work.

The law is there to check lawlessness that is to tell you and I when we sin.

I don't understand how you don't understand this simple thing

And am still in awe that you could not see where it is stated that using the law as a check or observing the law to check your sins is as if you are still operating under the very law that you were taken away from.....

In other words,you are using the law of moses to be made right with God,hence exhibiting the works of the law!

Only a law abider uses the same law that enslaved him!


What part of "don't observe the law" did you not understand?

Yes indeed...the purpose of law was made to bring us to Christ....however, according to Galatians 3:25 we are no longer under the dictates of the law.....

The law has done its job,which is showing a sinner its transgressions.....however the law could not make a sinner right with God.....Hence,Christ was revealed as an atonement for our sins....

Why is it so hard to read Galatians 3 to get a broader perspective about the purpose of the law?

Like I said earlier,you are free to follow the laws of moses...However,be reminded that you must not cherry pick any law but must do ALL to be made right with God!

You can't claim grace and law at the same time!

Goshen360:


You, I can still debate with you because you're making sense sometimes in your comments. You are right on the usefulness of the law here above BUT MY GOOD GOD, why do you have to GO BACK TO THE LAW AFTER YOU NOW HAVE CHRIST WHO CAN TEACH YOU BETTER THAN THE LAW?

The betterment of Christ OVER THE LAW IS ALL WHAT THE BOOK OF HEBREWS AND GALATIANS IS ALL ABOUT my brother. You can't teach that after one get Christ he should go back to PERFORMANCE TO THE LAW....my God, that's so wrong!

What do you mean go back to the law?

Pls what do you mean by law? Let's know whether we have same understanding of the concept law

Goshen360:


You can't have a debate with a motive to learn if you have this kind of attitude. As a matter of fact, I don't expect you to believe me....I truly want you to believe that was written but don't be like that man in scripture reading and or quoting scripture but can't use another scripture to interpret scriptures quoted.

Give me time lemme explain those scriptures you quoted thinking they support that CHRISTIANS ARE BINDING TO CONTINUE TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

OMG, ITS 2018 AND WE'RE STILL HERE DEBATING WETHER OR NOT CHRISTIANS SHOULD FOLLOW THE MOSAIC LAWS WHEN IT WAS ALREADY CONCLUDED BY THE APOSTLES IN ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.

lol...
It must be done!
Am also learning too....

jnrbayano:


You are that person with the said attitude, that attitude is comprehension of not more than 100words

Let me make it in even fewer words.

The law is there to check LAWLESSNESS put differently, the law tells you and I when we sin.

Jesus doesn't support lawlessness
No disciple of his supported same
I will not support lawlessness my friend

Learn if you want

This is simply called Justification through the law!
When you use the law to check your lawlessness, you are indirectly manifesting the works of the law and ultimately, be justified by the same law!

You are also telling God that the salvation and finished work on the cross is insufficient to take away lawlessness from you!

if you still need the law to point your lawlessness,then Christ death and resurrection meant nothing to you!

enilove:


The law was given to the Israelites to make them and everyone holy. Because lack of knowledge of right or wrong can kill.

The period when there was no law , the number of those worshipping idols and going to hell could not be numbered.
It was what made God to destroy the first generation and saved only Noah and his family.

The law was given to save the world.That is , to avoid the cases like that of Sodom .

I am not saying that anyone could make heaven without the death of Jesus , but that it is not only his blood that is required but our obedience to the commandments of God.

This your post is full of mix up again but for purpose of understanding let me ask questions to clarify some things said above.

First of all the law wasn't give to EVERYONE....it's was given to Israel. Lots of scriptures says this truth.

2. When you said to make them HOLY....holy as in what? What's the meaning of your holiness you referred to?

3. When you said the law was given to SAVE the world? Are your talking about preserving the world and humanity or you mean salvation in the kind that Christ came to give us?

4. Your last paragraph is ERROR....The blood of Jesus is the ONLY THING required for your one time salvation and what you saying we then continue to obey the commandments of God is WRONG. A Christian after salvation is then called to OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH (in the finished works of Christ) not to the COMMANDMENTS because the commandments will want to keep condemning you against what Christ had done in you....OMG!

openmine:


This is simply called Justification through the law!
When you use the law to check your lawlessness, you are indirectly manifesting the works of the law and ultimately, be justified by the same law!

You are also telling God that the salvation and finished work on the cross is insufficient to take away lawlessness from you!

if you still need the law to point your lawlessness,then Christ death and resurrection meant nothing to you!

This 19/20th century hellish teaching is why the world is out of order.

St Paul said, "do we do away with the law? No, we rather establish/uphold it."

St John the evangelist said, "sin is transgression of law"

Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments"

You guys here want to be lawless, goodluck

jnrbayano:


What do you mean go back to the law?

Pls what do you mean by law? Let's know whether we have same understanding of the concept law

Going back to the law is going back to PERFORMANCE and works based use of the mosaic law to relate with God. It's when you do good you get good n when you do wrong you get wrong.

The law as used in scripture is ONE AND ALL INCLUSIVE PACKAGE OF LEGAL SYSTEM GIVEN TO MOSES FROM MOUNT SINAI. It's not separable as some people say there is moral law and there is sacrificial law and there's ceremonial law....the law is ONE and that's why a break in one is a break in whole because it's a one inclusive package. That's my understanding of the law.

However, context can tell you what aspect or section of the law the writer is talking about or if he's talking about a complete different kind of law. Eg, law of the Spirit etc

jnrbayano:


This 19/20th century hellish teaching is why the world is out of order.

St Paul said, "do we do away with the law? No, we rather establish/uphold it."

St John the evangelist said, "sin is transgression of law"

Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments"

You guys here want to be lawless, goodluck

okay i guess the scriptures i quoted are not part of the bible right?

Hope you also know that paul was quoted as saying that the knowledge of the law increased sin...

You cant be justified by both the law and grace!

jnrbayano:


This 19/20th century hellish teaching is why the world is out of order.

St Paul said, "do we do away with the law? No, we rather establish/uphold it."

St John the evangelist said, "sin is transgression of law"

Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments"

You guys here want to be lawless, goodluck

Nobody here teaching lawlessness. I obey traffic laws here in USA so how am I lawless? I obey laws at my job so how am I lawless?

1. When you quote we up hold the law n not nullify it because of faith. How do you uphold a law WHEN ITS NOT GIVEN TO YOU? 2. How does Christians uphold the Mosaic law that ends when they have Christ? If Christians are to UPHOLD the Mosaic law, the Apostles in Acts of the Apostles would have concluded just that? Again you have to understand why Paul said that.

2. When Jesus said if you love me keep my COMMANDMENTS was he talking about the 10 commandments? Why don't you read down....he was talking about the COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE right in the same chapter there not talking about 10 commandments.

openmine:

okay i guess the scriptures i quoted are not part of the bible right?

Hope you also know that paul was quoted as saying that the knowledge of the law increased sin...

You cant be justified by both the law and grace!

You can also remember Paul was quoting from the law in his teachings like honor your father and mother etc and these our brother can argue that ohhhhhh yes, even Paul quote from the law to teach so therefore the law stands and should be uphold and therefore the law is not abolished.

I was going to get into why you often see Paul still quoted from the law to teach. He was balancing his audience which were JEWS, the custodians of the law and finding it too difficult to practice faith without the law so hence you see Paul say, TO THE JEWS I BECAME LIKE A JEW SO I MIGHT WIN THEM TO CHRIST. He was using what they grew up with to lead them to a BETTER PLACE IN CHRIST HENCE IS THE BOOK OF HEBREWS.

jnrbayano:


You are that person with the said attitude, that attitude is comprehension of not more than 100words

Let me make it in even fewer words.

The law is there to check LAWLESSNESS put differently, the law tells you and I when we sin.

Jesus doesn't support lawlessness
No disciple of his supported same
I will not support lawlessness my friend

Learn if you want

Amen to this and we could be saying the above in a different way. I say, the law DEDINES sin or tells you what sin IS but listen I'm also saying you can ALSO sin without A LAW.

I Understand laws are put in place to check lawlessness and when such laws are broken it becomes an offense so we're on the same page with that but we're here arguing because of the other things you guys are saying or teaching on the role of law AFTER ONE COMES TO CHRIST. Your other friend still want Christians to go back to the law ( in this case as used I mean the mosaic law). Then there's no need for Christ if we're supposed to go back to keeping the mosaic law.

jnrbayano:


Romans 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the Law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? [Is] the Law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the Law had said, "You shall not covet."

Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the Law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 7:12 - Therefore the Law [is] holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 - For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man.

1Joh 3:4 (KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.

Read Romans 7:7-25

I believe St Paul and John not you

Are you sure you believe what Paul and John wrote?

solite3:
Are you sure you believe what Paul and John wrote?

No he doesn't. He just picked verses that he thinks Paul was in favor of his argument.

Yes, the law is holy and the commandments just BUT DOES THE HOLY LAW MAKE SOMEONE HOLY? DOES THE JUST COMMANDMENTS MAKE ONE JUSTIFY?

Many read but few Understand. Right in the same chapter, same Paul said when the commandments came to him, sin revived and death by sin. We have a long way to go in the body of Christ.

enilove:


The law was given to the Israelites to make them and everyone holy. Because lack of knowledge of right or wrong can kill.

it is that knowledge that kills, are you saying a baby who doesn't know right or wrong can be committing sins? it is this knowledge of sin that creates more sins and invariably kills,

The period when there was no law , the number of those worshipping idols and going to hell could not be numbered.

are you serious? the law never saved anybody from hell rather, it condemns to hell, do you think the law is what you can choose some part and leave the rest?
upon the law, that was given, over 400 laws, how many people made it to the promise land? was even Moses the meekest man able to reach the promise land? what happened to the kingdom of Israel didn't they fall deep into idolatry even worst than the so called pagans?

It was what made God to destroy the first generation and saved only Noah and his family.

God destroyed them because of sin.

The law was given to save the world.That is , to avoid the cases like that of Sodom

which world? it Jesus the only begotten son that God send to save the world before Christ no body was saved, the law never saved any soul but rather it increase the knowledge of sin, so that all might be guilty

[qupte]I am not saying that anyone could make heaven without the death of Jesus , but that it is not only his blood that is required but our obedience to the commandments of God.[/quote] the death of Jesus will mean nothing to you, if you depend on the law.

not only the death of Jesus was required? this is another gospel.
so you are saying that the sacrifice of Jesus is not enough to save any soul?
What a heresy!

Goshen360:


No he doesn't. He just picked verses that he thinks Paul was in favor of his argument.

Yes, the law is holy and the commandments just BUT DOES THE HOLY LAW MAKE SOMEONE HOLY? DOES THE JUST COMMANDMENTS MAKE ONE JUSTIFY?

Many read but few Understand. Right in the same chapter, same Paul said when the commandments came to him, sin revived and death by sin. We have a long way to go in the body of Christ.

they have etching ears, they don't even understand what they quoted. smh

jnrbayano:


This 19/20th century hellish teaching is why the world is out of order.

St Paul said, "do we do away with the law? No, we rather establish/uphold it."

St John the evangelist said, "sin is transgression of law"

Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments"

You guys here want to be lawless, goodluck

smh, Jesus has become nothing to you.