HappyPagan:
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.

but what if the Way leads away from The Truth,
away from Life.

budaatum:
Hey, let's start here and now, in fact!

What is a "Christ Mind" please?

HappyPagan:


A mind that mirror's Christ - is submissive to the words of the Bible and follows it diligently.

_{True, we do have a lot to talk about. Thread vs private chat?}

budaatum:

I think you might be very wrong there! Christ himself was not submissive to the words of the Bible or follow it diligently!

You do recall he was crucified for this very reason, not following the Bible diligently, right?

_Thread.

HappyPagan:

I'm ready.

budaatum:

What for?

budaatum:
That was hasty.

So, what is a 'Christ mind'?

HappyPagan:
Another (the Nigerian Pentecostal context), means to be docile, to manage circumstances, to not question authority.

HappyPagan:

There is one that means 'to mirror Christ's examples and preaching'.

HappyPagan:
Another (the Nigerian Pentecostal context), means to be docile, to manage circumstances, to not question authority.

HappyPagan:

There is one that means 'to mirror Christ's examples and preaching'.

budaatum:

Jesus was not docile, except when he was led to the cross; indeed one must manage circumstances, and Jesus always questioned authority. The ones you hear may have said it wrong I'd have you consider.

budaatum:

Were his examples and teachings bad? Is it bad to mirror Christ and be bold and not docile, to manage any circumstance and question authority?

HappyPagan:

I agree he wasn't. He was a remarkably smart motherfucker - weirdly, I think I appreciate his messages more as an atheist, than when I was Christian.

His parables can be quite profound if given deep thought.


His story is a very powerful one, if stripped of all the divine nonsense attached to it. His aggressors were his 'family', leaders who had abused the power privileged positions grant. He stood for the poor and weak in his society, told them to believe in themselves - taught them to seek God in private, in truth.. To find their own salvation.

budaatum:

Profound! I would go as far as arguing that he was atheistic to the beliefs of his day, and if they hadn't gone and wrapped him up in divine crap, Jesus would be beside the likes of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. No one asks for them to be believed.

We atheists should perhaps learn to treat him like the philosopher teacher that he was, instead of the god the religious folks claim he is. And rather than "believe in him", perhaps we can teach them to learn from him instead.

You, sir, make my day by seeing what you see.

HappyPagan:

There is one that means 'to mirror Christ's examples and preaching'.

Another (the Nigerian Pentecostal context), means to be docile, to manage circumstances, to not question authority.

Akdegreat:


I agree with you here. I see Jesus as a freethinker! I likened him to Fela Kuti of our time in my last thread. He was vocal against oppressive authorities.

budaatum:

Profound! I would go as far as arguing that he was atheistic to the beliefs of his day, and if they hadn't gone and wrapped him up in divine crap, Jesus would be beside the likes of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. No one asks for them to be believed.

We atheists should perhaps learn to treat him like the philosopher teacher that he was, instead of the god the religious folks claim he is. And rather than "believe in him", perhaps we can teach them to learn from him instead.

You, sir, make my day by seeing what you see.

Akdegreat:


Perhaps, the second nature as you've pointed out here was mischievously inferred for social engineering and control.

Prior to colonization, the Igbo believed that spiritual forces controlled events. If enough misfortune piled up, a family might come to believe that it was the victim of an intergenerational curse resulting from the actions of an ancestor. Family members would seek out a juju priest, who would consult a deity, diagnose the root of the curse, and then expel it through a religious ritual. When foreign missionaries arrived, they persuaded the Igbos to embrace Christianity—openly, at least. But belief in ancestral curses has remained, cloaked in Bible passages that refer to God “visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.” Many churches now offer services similar to the old rituals, in which a pastor replaces the juju priest and Jesus replaces the pagan god. This way, evil forces can be exposed without Christians engaging in idolatry. Deliverance usually requires a family to pray, fast, and renounce atrocities.

In 2009, the late priest Stephen Njoku wrote a book called “Challenge and Deal with Your Evil Foundations,” in which he argued that some people should change their names to rid themselves of curses. “It’s like building a house,” he told me. “If you don’t get the foundations right, if you used substandard materials or if the stones were not laid properly, the building will inevitably develop cracks and collapse.” A number of Igbo communities with names that extol gory histories have taken new ones. In 1992, people in my home town became concerned about several unexplained deaths of young people. After a period of communal prayer, people gathered in the village hall and voted to discard the community’s historic name, Umuojameze, which means “children of Ojam, the king.” Ojam was a deity whom the townspeople had worshipped before Christianization, and to whom they had made regular human sacrifices. They chose the new name, Umujieze, which means “children who hold the kingship,” to reflect our severance from the atrocities of the past.

My relatives disagreed about the cause of our family’s curse. Most believed that it was because of Nwaubani Ogogo’s slave trading. Some suspected that it was his broken alliance with Njoku. My father thought that it might have resulted from his human sacrifices. Sunny was not sure the family was cursed at all. “If our problems are because of the sins of our fathers, why are the white people making progress despite the sins of their fathers?” he said. Nevertheless, they agreed to hold a deliverance ceremony, and settled on a plan. On three days near the end of January, from 6 a.m. until noon, family members around the world would fast and pray. My father sent out a text message in preparation that included passages from the Bible. He has never been overtly religious, and it amused me to watch him organize a global prayer session. I teased him about the fact that he would have to skip breakfast, which was usually waiting for him at the same time each morning. “I’m a saint,” he declared.

budaatum:

Jesus, the guru for the atheists! I personally love the guy. It's just so a pity that some deified him. About being 'born of the holy spirit' and not by Mary having sex! If anyone said that today, we'd laugh them right out of town, yet millions believe it. Unfortunately, its the one idea that blinds people from actually learning what he was about. They come up and claim "belief" is more important than "understanding", and despite Jesus saying continously, "do my will", people stick on what I would call the rogue John 3:16-21. Or isn't it obvious someone added that section and Jesus never said it?

The rulers of this world would do anything to make sure the veil they put up around Jesus stays in place. For if people truly understand him, they would realise they themselves are the gods! Those of us with this understanding should look for ways to promote it!

vaxx:
lol...

You budaatum is attributing the biblical Jesus to Socrates and Plato . I am assuming you are joking. It is like me saying ORUNMILA had so many deep insight explanation to most of the issues related to life and hence a philosopher. I actually don't think he will qualifiy unless I am being biased.( though he is consider a sage but not will not be taking as a philosopher today )

Jesus idea was not unique, many religious leaders of his time across major tribes preaches similar idea. "" live your dammm business and follow me to go do my stuffs""

Jesus was silent on so many things. For example, he says nothing on creations, epistemology nko ? He says he is not here to change the law, so the idea that the people of his time understand God was assumed , even the idea of you can not come to daddy except me the son was not a rigourous logic. It failed flat. Permit me to say. John 3 vs 16 should have been taking from the bible. Whoever wrote it did a bad job and likewise
On meta-ethics, I doubt he says anything.

I believe he exist, the evidence is enough to convince me but there is no evidence that he was familiar with the rich body of work from earlier Greek philosophers (the famous three - Socrates, Plato and Aristotle - all lived way before Jesus)..who will have change his method or views of thinking.


Well, the bible depict him as a learned figure.

Akdegreat:


Are you judging Jesus from bible alone to know all he said and all he didn't say?

vaxx:
lol...

You budaatum is attributing the biblical Jesus to Socrates and Plato . I am assuming you are joking. It is like me saying ORUNMILA had so many deep insight explanation to most of the issues related to life and hence a philosopher. I actually don't think he will qualifiy unless I am being biased.( though he is consider a sage but not will not be taking as a philosopher today )

Jesus idea was not unique, many religious leaders of his time across major tribes preaches similar idea. "" live your dammm business and follow me to go do my stuffs""

Jesus was silent on so many things. For example, he says nothing on creations, epistemology nko ? He says he is not here to change the law, so the idea that the people of his time understand God was assumed , even the idea of you can not come to daddy except me the son was not a rigourous logic. It failed flat. Permit me to say. John 3 vs 16 should have been taking from the bible. Whoever wrote it did a bad job and likewise
On meta-ethics, I doubt he says anything.

I believe he exist, the evidence is enough to convince me but there is no evidence that he was familiar with the rich body of work from earlier Greek philosophers (the famous three - Socrates, Plato and Aristotle - all lived way before Jesus)..who will have change his method or views of thinking.


Well, the bible depict him as a learned figure.

budaatum:
If Orunmila were understood beyond the level of divination we would say the same about it. There are many lessons taught by it that are on what could be called a philosophical level.

If you understood what I said about John 3:16, you would not be repeating me and think you were opposing what I said. Please go back and check and let me know. Otherwise, you might want to consider that this might be beyond your level of understanding and just shut up and learn. It does not diminish one if one is ignorant about some things.

Akdegreat:


It's a pity that the true gospel of Christ have been mixed with several falsehoods, one would have a had time discerning truth with an open mind. Worthy of note, too, is the contradictory messages of Paul which cements the whole thing.
It's speaks volumes that Paul wrote majority of the New Testament gospel whereas Jesus, the center of it all, has no account to his credit.

vaxx:
other than the bible, what is the most important book do you think an inqusitive mind can read to know more about Jesus Christ? You will be doing me a lot of favour for telling me one.

As far as I can tell, bible gives more information regarding Jesus Christ than any book. Though it is still consider insufficient because bible is silent from age 12 to age 29 years of his earthy life.

I have a book here with me, he describe Jesus as a riki scholar that was trained in India. I have a lot of doubts on the book anyway but contain some information that am a bit open to.

budaatum:

Paul in my opinion, did a 'can't beat them so join them', except he went further and took over and thereby muddled up the teachings of Christ with his own spin. It's unfortunate that the two can't easily be separated.

By the way, I am amazed that others have the view we are expressing here. I know how much work I've had to do to get such an understanding so my respect for you and Pagan is immense. Hopefully we'd find others who share this view.

Akdegreat:


I asked eager to know if you had other references on Jesus. Otherwise, I think it's erroneous to judge from the accounts of Matthew, Luke, John etc for we know that the bible gospels are not immune to human errors and deliberate subtractions by the authorities that be then to serve their purposes.

HappyPagan:


Not directly related to this, but I read this from sometime ago..



Link for the curious

vaxx:

You must learn to read to understand rather than speaking from spoiled faculty. I think it is important..

rekinomtla:
Jesus wasn't white.