All of you have won!

All of you have won! Thanks.

enilove:



1)
All the old believers who were righteous and never heard about Jesus Christ were not condemned . They were given opportunity to accept Jesus after his death :

John 5:28-30 KJV
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
[29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
[30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

2)
God did not kill or curse His son.
Jesus himself volunteered to die for us because of his love for us .
Jesus died and rose up on the third day .

John 10:17-18 KJV
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
[18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


It is the flesh that dies , the spirit doesn't die . This means for ETERNITY the spirit will be in pain unending. There is no dying in hell but everlasting suffering which is worst than the first death. God knows this and has there4 made a way of escape for you and I.

Revelation 20:11-15 KJV
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Cc : Emusan , Enilove.

1. Based on the bolded, Can we admit Jesus never really die for anyone ?

2. How come the old testament saints make heaven without Jesus ? Or didn't Moses, Abraham and others make heaven without him ?

Expecting your response

Emusan:


You're just shouting up and down on what you don't know! Seek knowledge you refuse yet using Quran glass to interpret Bible.

Christ crucifixion is an antitypes of Animal sacrifices in the Old Testament, the Bible says the Lamb which represents Christ had been SLAIN from the foundation of the world. That's why there's what we called BIBLICAL CONSUMMATION! meaning how Christ basically fulfilled some Old Testament practices in His life and teachings.

So Paul Lied that Christ was offered ONCE?

Christ has been active on earth before He was born in Bethlehem. Christ's coming into the world is to demonstrate the reality of Old Testament practice.

If a road engineer designed a road on paper, can this engineer direct someone through the path of this road even if the road isn't physically constructed on ground? Yes he can!

I know you might understand this illustration.



Firstly, it's just so unfortunate that out of ignorance you keep turning Bible down just to propagate your fake Islam.

secondly, Jesus didn't allude to an event that is taking place in real time event but as a STORY to drive a point.

Thirdly, so unfortunate that the point Christ was driving was totally neglected by you but went ahead to distort the Holy Bible.

Lastly, I purposely bolden the part you neglected, just as you're still confusing about Christ crucifixion neither will you be persuaded by one rising from dead to a new life.

Until the Reality is demonstrated, Does it mean the blood of goat and sheep's still gave salvation to old testament saints ?


My other question is still pending .

Peacefullove:
So Paul Lied that Christ was offered ONCE?

Then where did you read it that Christ was offered twice

I too know man!

Until the Reality is demonstrated, Does it mean the blood of goat and sheep's still gave salvation to old testament saints ?


My other question is still pending .

Only if you understand what you quote in the first place.

Peacefullove:
1. Based on the bolded, Can we admit Jesus never really die for anyone ?

If not because of your ITK someone said the BODY DIED but you still went ahead to ask "Christ never died for anoyone"

What of the FLESH that died

2. How come the old testament saints make heaven without Jesus ? Or didn't Moses, Abraham and others make heaven without him ?

Expecting your response

You read my previous post

May God Almighty guide everyone of us to the truth before we die

Emusan:


If not because of your ITK someone said the BODY DIED but you still went ahead to ask "Christ never died for anoyone"

What of the FLESH that died



You read my previous post

Calm down , u still don't get it.

Is the Flesh the real person or ordinary structure that house the real. Person ?

Emusan:


Then where did you read it that Christ was offered twice

I too know man!

You said The Lamb Christ HAD been slain before the founding of the world. ( A Past. Event)

Then when he came to the world as human, Yeshua was Slained AGAIN ( second time )

Can you decode now ?

Either Paul lied that Christ was offered once or you are the one telling lies.

Only if you understand what you quote in the first place.

Make me understand, Does it mean Sheep and Goats blood were enough to grant them heaven without Jesus ?

Peacefullove:
You said The Lamb Christ HAD been slain before the founding of the world. ( A Past. Event)

Then when he came to the world as human, Yeshua was Slained AGAIN ( second time )

Can you decode now ?

SMH and you'll be claiming you're among the intellectual one.

Slain from the foundation of the world means those Animal sacrifices are just the Antitype of Tue reality of the human Christ.

If you can't decode this....sorry I can't help you further.

Either Paul lied that Christ was offered once or you are the one telling lies.

When you lack the ability to comprehend it, how will you not confuse?

Make me understand, Does it mean Sheep and Goats blood were enough to grant them heaven without Jesus ?

You can't understand because you're not here to learn. So no amount of my word that can change what you already conceived but for better understand go and read the book of Hebrew from beginning to the end. So anyhow you understand it live with it.

Peacefullove:

Calm down , u still don't get it.

Is the Flesh the real person or ordinary structure that house the real. Person ?

I don't or you don't

If not the FLESH will you have known anybody called Yeshua?

People do say, man is body, soul and spirit yet you agree that man can die but in case of Jesus it must be different.

Emusan:


SMH and you'll be claiming you're among the intellectual one.

Slain from the foundation of the world means those Animal sacrifices are just the Antitype of Tue reality of the human Christ.


If you can't decode this....sorry I can't help you further.



When you lack the ability to comprehend it, how will you not confuse?



You can't understand because you're not here to learn. So no amount of my word that can change what you already conceived but for better understand go and read the book of Hebrew from beginning to the end. So anyhow you understand it live with it.

See U- turn .

So it's no longer Christ but the animals that have been slained from.the FOUNDATION of the world .

But this was not your earlier position: , you quote that portion to justify the statement below and escape .

Emusan
Christ has been active on earth before He was born in Bethlehem. Christ's coming into the world is to demonstrate the reality of Old Testament practice.

Since We now established Christ wasn't offered as sacrifice until he came to the world , Is the Blood of goats and sheep Enough to grant old testament saint " The way " to heaven ?

Emusan:


I don't or you don't

If not the FLESH will you have known anybody called Yeshua?

People do say, man is body, soul and spirit yet you agree that man can die but in case of Jesus it must be different.

No Sir, am not saying it must be different . In fact am sure you have gotten my point, I don't know why you are pretending not to.

The same people that say man is body, soul and spirit ALSo say and " Man is a Spirit, housed in a body "

From that we can deduce two things.

- Man himself is a spirit.

- Body is just a house NOT the man.

So am asking if Man is a spirit , How could Jesus person die ?

Note: Body or flesh is just a house or structure for the real person .

Peacefullove:


No Sir, am not saying it must be different . In fact am sure you have gotten my point, I don't know why you are pretending not to.

The same people that say man is body, soul and spirit ALSo say and " Man is a Spirit, housed in a body "

From that we can deduce two things.

- Man himself is a spirit.

- Body is just a house NOT the man.

So am asking if Man is a spirit , How could Jesus person die ?

Note: Body or flesh is just a house or structure for the real person .

So if body is just the house, why then you still agreed that someone died?

The truth is you know perfectly what it means by "body is where the spirit resides" but still trying to find what didn't miss.

Emusan:


So if body is just the house, why then you still agreed that someone died?

Flesh = house

Spirit/Soul = Real person

I clarified that it's the house that died, NOT JESUS HIMSELF, Agree ?

The truth is you know perfectly what it means by "body is where the spirit resides" but still trying to find what didn't miss.

Since that spirit is the real person ( Jesus ) , It means Jesus never died .agree ?

I did this just to end my discussion with you because I know this won't satisfy you.

Peacefullove:
So it's no longer Christ but the animals that have been slained from.the FOUNDATION of the world.

But this was not your earlier position: , you quote that portion to justify the statement below and escape .



Since We now established Christ wasn't offered as sacrifice until he came to the world , Is the Blood of goats and sheep Enough to grant old testament saint " The way " to heaven ?

Just like I said early, you always look for what didn't lost yet claiming to wise.

Christ has been slain since the foundation of the world...
This can be perfectly described as ALL SACRIFICES are modeled or pointed towards the reality of the real sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

What do I mean by this?
An old engineer designed a structure this includes the paper work, computer module, and Cardboard modeling.
Here this old engineer has already picture the finishing physical structure even though structure isn't erected.

Without erecting this structure, this engineer only in anticipation and hoping towards the day this structure will become reality.

NOTE: The materials used by this engineer are of different types but the ACTUAL materials needed for the structure is already in the mind of this engineer.

Now the question:
1. Does this engineer design different from the actual structure even it the structure takes thousands of years before finally erected? No!
2. Does this engineer design work negate the reality of the structure? No!
3. Does this engineer design work pointing towards the actualization of the finishing structure? Yes!

In conclusion:
1. Christ has been slain from the foundation of the world.
2. This means people now have something to picture/model their salvation after.
3. The main point is "without shedding of blood there is no remission" so animals (like the engineer who uses other materials for his design) blood were used by people of old not that animals blood can take away sin but just a pointer to the real sacrificial blood of Christ.
4. The shedding of animals blood by these people only make them to have hope on the finishing one done by Christ Jesus.

Then you can now appreciate it when the Bible says "For by single offering he has brought to the GOAL FOR ALL TIME those who are being set apart for God and made holy." Heb 10:14 JB

Some versions use "MADE PERFECT" this means it's until Christ finally died (completing the finishing structure) that the works of those Old people were perfected.

That's why the Bible says "In burnt offerings and sacrifices for SIN thou hast had no pleasure"

Short answer:
They did animal sacrifices in anticipation of the actual one Christ will come to do not that by killing animals was actually their way of salvation.

Peacefullove:


Flesh = house

Spirit/Soul = Real person

I clarified that it's the house that died, NOT JESUS HIMSELF, Agree ?



Since that spirit is the real person ( Jesus ) , It means Jesus never died .agree ?

So what is the name of the house that died?

Yet your ignorance of what those people mean is very glaring.

You just want to be spoon feed like a little kid.

Your BODY is your PHYSICAL PERSON why your spirit is the SPIRITUAL person.

What is so difficult for you to grab in this? when we're not dealing with nursery school students.

Emusan:


So what is the name of the house that died?

Yet your ignorance of what those people mean is very glaring.

You just want to be spoon feed like a little kid.

Your BODY is your PHYSICAL PERSON why your spirit is the SPIRITUAL person.

What is so difficult for you to grab in this? when we're not dealing with nursery school students.

In as much as I won't like to derail by pointing out the silly assumption you made up there, Which will.mean everybody is a physical person and everybody is a spiritual person . Does Paul agree with you ? 1 Cor 2 vs 14, 15 .

Back to the topic:

In short, a man is composed of two PERSONS ?

Emusan .

Emusan:
I did this just to end my discussion with you because I know this won't satisfy you.



Just like I said early, you always look for what didn't lost yet claiming to wise.

Christ has been slain since the foundation of the world...
This can be perfectly described as ALL SACRIFICES are modeled or pointed towards the reality of the real sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

What do I mean by this?
An old engineer designed a structure this includes the paper work, computer module, and Cardboard modeling.
Here this old engineer has already picture the finishing physical structure even though structure isn't erected.

Without erecting this structure, this engineer only in anticipation and hoping towards the day this structure will become reality.

NOTE: The materials used by this engineer are of different types but the ACTUAL materials needed for the structure is already in the mind of this engineer.

Now the question:
1. Does this engineer design different from the actual structure even it the structure takes thousands of years before finally erected? No!
2. Does this engineer design work negate the reality of the structure? No!
3. Does this engineer design work pointing towards the actualization of the finishing structure? Yes!

In conclusion:
1. Christ has been slain from the foundation of the world.
2. This means people now have something to picture/model their salvation after.
3. The main point is "without shedding of blood there is no remission" so animals (like the engineer who uses other materials for his design) blood were used by people of old not that animals blood can take away sin but just a pointer to the real sacrificial blood of Christ.
4. The shedding of animals blood by these people only make them to have hope on the finishing one done by Christ Jesus.

Then you can now appreciate it when the Bible says "For by single offering he has brought to the GOAL FOR ALL TIME those who are being set apart for God and made holy." Heb 10:14 JB

Some versions use "MADE PERFECT" this means it's until Christ finally died (completing the finishing structure) that the works of those Old people were perfected.

That's why the Bible says "In burnt offerings and sacrifices for SIN thou hast had no pleasure"

Short answer:
They did animal sacrifices in anticipation of the actual one Christ will come to do not that by killing animals was actually their way of salvation.

The Engineer logic goes against you . The Structure cannot be used as. Abode UNTIL its finally completed .

You Are trying to say the old testament saints have already been living in that structure BEFORE THE BUILDING was completed , Can you live in a paper work design ?

The point here is : Purpose . until that purpose is completed the Building cannot SERVE the purpose for which its built.



So how could old testament saints be in heaven ( Enjoy the building ) if Jesus hasn't finished the works ?

"He is to lay both hands on the head of the live GOAT and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites—ALL THEIR SINS—and put them on the goat’s head. He shall send the GOAT away into the wilderness in the care of someone appointed for the task. The GOAT will carry on itself ALL THEIR SINS to a remote place; and the man shall release it in the wilderness....... .. Then, before the Lord, you will be CLEAN FROM ALL YOUR SINS (Leviticus 16:21-30)"
Here we read in the last verse ; “Then before the LORD, you will be CLEAN FROM ALL YOUR SINS” (Leviticus 16:30). Yet the new Testament proclaimed that; " It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to TAKE AWAY SINS (Hebrew 10:4)". This is a flat contradiction. Is there any difference between "CLEAN FROM ALL SINS" and "TAKE AWAY SINS" ?
The only way to resolve this contradiction is when we assume that the phrase "TAKE AWAY SINS" in Hebrews 10:4 implies "complete removal of humanity sinful nature" and NOT refering to "cleanliness from already committed sins". However, complete removal of humanity sinful nature is impossible as NOBODY can be completely FREE from committing sins EVEN AFTER THE ALLEGED JESUS CRUCIFIXION. (see 1 John1:8-10).
Therefore, Hebrew 10:4 is a GREAT LIE deliberately fabricated by Paul to weaken the atonement of sins through animal sacrifice and then justify atonement of sins through Jesus crucifixion.