Jesus: Satan came to steal, kill and destroy.

Really? Let's see what the Bible says.

Kill Count

Satan:

1. Killed 10 of Job's children

2. Killed about 150 of Job's servants (estimated at 1 servant per 100 animals)

Total: 160

God:

1. Killed untold numbers with a flood.

2. Killed untold number of Sodom and Gomorrah inhabitants with fire and brimestone.

3. Killed untold number of Egyptians with plagues.

4. Killed Pharaoh and his army (untold number) by drowning.

5. Killed Israelites with snakes.

6. Killed Israelites with food poisoning.

7. Killed Israelites with sinkholes.

8. Killed off a generation of Israelites by causing them to wander in a small wilderness for 40 years.

9. Killed untold number of Canaanites in battle, way more than the Israelites did by hand.

10. Killed over a 100,000 enemy soldiers, twice.

Total count: Uncountable but definitely more than 200,000.

Who again came to kill and destroy?

.

neonly:
.

Well the Bible na mumu book so no blame me na.

Lol
Between God and Satan, who saves?
Oh that's true, Satan never saved any one, not any.

God doesn't kill at all. But He authorises Satan to do all killings in two ways 1, Blanket Authority to kill all unrepentant sinners. 2, specific authority in special circumstances.

orisa37:
God doesn't kill at all. But He authorises Satan to do all killings in two ways
1, Blanket Authority to kill all unrepentant sinners.
2, specific authority in special circumstances.

Rubbish. The fire and brimstone that rained on Sodom and Gomorrah was not from Satan. Neither was the food poisoning that killed Israelites. The only place God authorized Satan to kill was in Job's case.

U don't understand.

orisa37:
U don't understand.

Neither do you. Tell me who parted the Red Sea and caused it to collapse on the Egyptians? Satan?

Our God is a 'Man of War'.

It is well.

He is the 'Lord of Hosts'.

A jealous God.

An angry God.

He has killed millions before.

He will kill billions very soon.

Read your Bible well.

Fear His wrath!

LOL.

Are you sure you have counted all the people Satan killed in the Bible? Who deceived man into sin, and thus brought death in to the world? When Satan instigate people to do bad things(such as wars) and to kill others in the process, is Satan not responsible for such deaths?

Also, when Satan deceives people to commit grievous crimes, such that God metes out judgment on them in form of death, can you hold GOD responsible? Is Satan not responsible for such deaths?

In summary, Satan is the origin of death!

There is one thing u need to know...

LordReed:
Jesus: Satan came to steal, kill and destroy.

Really? Let's see what the Bible says.

Kill Count

Satan:

1. Killed 10 of Job's children

2. Killed about 150 of Job's servants (estimated at 1 servant per 100 animals)

Total: 160

God:

1. Killed untold numbers with a flood.

2. Killed untold number of Sodom and Gomorrah inhabitants with fire and brimestone.

3. Killed untold number of Egyptians with plagues.

4. Killed Pharaoh and his army (untold number) by drowning.

5. Killed Israelites with snakes.

6. Killed Israelites with food poisoning.

7. Killed Israelites with sinkholes.

8. Killed off a generation of Israelites by causing them to wander in a small wilderness for 40 years.

9. Killed untold number of Canaanites in battle, way more than the Israelites did by hand.

10. Killed over a 100,000 enemy soldiers, twice.

Total count: Uncountable but definitely more than 200,000.

Who again came to kill and destroy?

There is one thing u need to know
God created human beings he
knows how they would live that
would make them "UNWORTHY" of
the life he gave them, just like u
creating a robot for a purpose but the software was tampered with
and it started behaving in a
dangerous manner u either
destroy it or correct the damage to
its software sadly humans
themselves must decide to change, God cant change them without
their consent so just like the flood
in noah's time and like sodom and
gommorah GOD KILLS WHEN THEY
LIVE A LIFE AGAINST HIS PURPOSE
AND DESIGN

PhenomenalMorgan:

There is one thing u need to know
God created human beings he
knows how they would live that
would make them "UNWORTHY" of
the life he gave them, just like u
creating a robot for a purpose but the software was tampered with
and it started behaving in a
dangerous manner u either
destroy it or correct the damage to
its software sadly humans
themselves must decide to change, God cant change them without
their consent so just like the flood
in noah's time and like sodom and
gommorah GOD KILLS WHEN THEY
LIVE A LIFE AGAINST HIS PURPOSE
AND DESIGN

I am glad you didn't deny that God kills and he kills alot, more than Satan as recorded.

DoctorAlien:
LOL.

Are you sure you have counted all the people Satan killed in the Bible? Who deceived man into sin, and thus brought death in to the world? When Satan instigate people to do bad things(such as wars) and to kill others in the process, is Satan not responsible for such deaths?

Also, when Satan deceives people to commit grievous crimes, such that God metes out judgment on them in form of death, can you hold GOD responsible? Is Satan not responsible for such deaths?

In summary, Satan is the origin of death!

According to your fairytale God created death therefore he is ultimately responsible. I don't even want to go there because if we reason that way then even the deaths attributed to Satan are still all God's fault because he created everything according to your fairytale.

Let's just stick with the deaths attributed to Satan and God's "direct" action.

LordReed:


Neither do you. Tell me who parted the Red Sea and caused it to collapse on the Egyptians? Satan?

.


Easy my friend. The Satan was in Moses Rod that parted the Sea..
Satan is a Minister, Messenger, Jig, Tool & Fixture of God our hands to do Miracles and cause killing.

LordReed:


According to your fairytale God created death therefore he is ultimately responsible. I don't even want to go there because if we reason that way then even the deaths attributed to Satan are still all God's fault because he created everything according to your fairytale.

Let's just stick with the deaths attributed to Satan and God's "direct" action.

Where did the Bible say that God created death?

Death can be seen as the undoing of what did in creating.

So where did the Bible say GOD created death?

LOL, knowing who Satan is, and that he likes to blame others deceitfully for what he has done, are you sure you're not being deceived already into thinking that he is not really responsible for death on earth?

DoctorAlien:


Where did the Bible say that God created death?

Death can be seen as the undoing of what did in creating.

So where did the Bible say GOD created death?

LOL, knowing who Satan is, and that he likes to blame others deceitfully for what he has done, are you sure you're not being deceived already into thinking that he is not really responsible for death on earth?

Deceived by what? Your fairytale book?

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

That is from your fairytale book, God the creator of all things, including evil.

LordReed:


Deceived by what? Your fairytale book?

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

That is from your fairytale book, God the creator of all things, including evil.

That GOD is able to bring destruction and disaster(which can be seen as undoing what he did in creating) on evil people does not mean that GOD "created" death. In the Genesis account of creation, on which day did GOD create death?

orisa37:
.


Easy my friend. The Satan was in Moses Rod that parted the Sea..
Satan is a Minister, Messenger, Jig, Tool & Fixture of God our hands to do Miracles and cause killing.

LoL. You are just a joker.

DoctorAlien:


That GOD is able to bring destruction and disaster(which can be seen as undoing what he did in creating) on evil people does not mean that GOD "created" death. In the Genesis account of creation, on which day did GOD create death?

On which day did God create the angels?

LordReed:

On which day did God create the angels?

Angels were existing in heaven before God created man.

DoctorAlien:


Angels were existing in heaven before God created man.

Death was existing before God created man.

LordReed:


Deceived by what? Your fairytale book?

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

That is from your fairytale book, God the creator of all things, including evil.

The evil dat isaiah was talking about is natural evil such as earthquakes,floods,etc that God uses to justly punish mankind for NEGLECTING AND DISOBEYING HIM and not moral evil such as injustice,infedility,etc

LordReed:


Death was existing before God created man.

Where did you see that in the Bible?
I have proof in the Bible that angels were created before man was created, in Isa. 14 and Ezek. 28.

Where is your proof that death was existing before God created man? Who died before God created man?

Excuse me for butting in, but as at the last time I was really active on Nairaland in 2015, I was under the impression (if memory serves me) that you're a Christian, LordReed. Did something change? Or was my impression of you then false?

ihedinobi2:
Excuse me for butting in, but as at the last time I was really active on Nairaland in 2015, I was under the impression (if memory serves me) that you're a Christian, LordReed. Did something change? Or was my impression of you then false?

Something changed alright, my thinking faculties became unfettered by religious dogma and doctrine.

DoctorAlien:


Where did you see that in the Bible?
I have proof in the Bible that angels were created before man was created, in Isa. 14 and Ezek. 28.

Where is your proof that death was existing before God created man? Who died before God created man?

There's nothing in those chapters that say angels were created before men. You just conjectured it same way I am conjecturing about death.

PhenomenalMorgan:
The evil dat isaiah was talking about is natural evil such as earthquakes,floods,etc that God uses to justly punish mankind for NEGLECTING AND DISOBEYING HIM and not moral evil such as injustice,infedility,etc

LoL so earthquakes, floods and etc doesn't affect Christians? You are so funny.

Everything called evil, be it natural disasters or death itself,was created by God according to your fairytale book.

LordReed:


Something changed alright, my thinking faculties became unfettered by religious dogma and doctrine.

Oh, okay. I was curious. I wanted to be sure where your question was coming from.

I think that offering you an answer no matter how good is very likely an exercise in futility but I allow for the possibility that I am wrong since one only knows so much about any given thing. So, while I intend to try to give you an answer on the assumption that you will give it proper consideration, I may not pursue a debate unless it looks like it may be reasonable rather than an "unfettered slugfest". Please excuse me if I sound condescending saying that. I really just want you to understand my disposition to this exchange.

So, regarding your argument, I think that there is really no question that death serves as much as God's agent as everything in creation does. He is God after all. Nothing could do anything without Him. So, even if Satan were responsible for every single death in history, well, he wouldn't exist or cause death unless God created him and provided him with ability, opportunity and enabling to do as he does.

However, this is not the whole story.

Free will is the critical other half.

When God first created the whole universe, He did it out of nothing and it was perfect, without darkness or evil of any sort. Then He made the angels who were the only creatures made to be like Him in possessing a free will. The angels were (and are) spirits with incredible abilities that even we now as humans can little imagine much less comprehend. And they saw God face to face and had perfect fellowship with Him.

Each angel was created in a particular "rank", if you will, possessing distinct personality, ability and duties. And Satan was the very highest ranking of all of them. He, just like the rest, was created holy and perfect, wanting for absolutely nothing. At the time, there was only one guardian cherub, that is, an angel whose job was to sort of symbolically maintain the absolute separation and holiness of God from creation. Satan was also the "high priest", if you will, of the angels. He stood before God to represent the rest. In short, the Bible's description of him in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, especially the latter, leaves the reader with the idea that Satan had everything possible that a creature could possibly desire. He was the preeminent creature in God's universe. He maintained superiority over every single angel. And all the angels ruled the universe of that time.

But God never intended that His creatures would serve Him perforce. He always wanted them to make a conscious choice to be His Family throughout eternity. This is why the angels had free will and why man would later come to have it too. Satan had it.

Now, Satan had no reason, no temptation, no tree of the knowledge of good and evil to show him that things could be any other way than they were. This is very important to note. It shows that God is never the source of temptation to do evil. There was no reason external to Satan that he should rebel against God. He manufactured a reason all by himself because every creature possessing free will is essentially like God in the most important way: they possess the ability to decide what to be.

Satan was the touchstone of perfection in creation. He was also the wisest creature that God made. These things were the very things that he corrupted himself with. He figured that he was perfect and wise enough to become God in his own right. What that means is that Satan actually chose of his own free will to ignore the single important detail that he was a created being, not a self-existing entity. God is of necessity without beginning or end. He was never created and will never go out of existence. This is not true of any created thing. God, of course, created all things to be eternal in essence but each thing was created. Therefore, not one of those things God made can ever under any circumstances become God. It is impossible to become God. You are either God or you are not. But Satan sold that lie to himself and began a process of corruption in himself that soon led to full revolt against the God of Creation.

His revolt involved seducing his fellow angels with promises to get them to join him and increase (in their limited minds) their chances of success in taking rulership of the universe away from God. He did succeed at seducing a third of the angels with promises of obtaining material existence in physical bodies. That led to vile corruption of the pristine Earth of that time both from what they did with the bodies of the animals that they took possession of and from their experimentations to create bodies that fit their lusts.

God allowed it to go on for as long as it was necessary to make sure that all the angels who wanted to rebel did and that all those who didn't want to made it clear that they never would. Then He flooded the entire universe.

That ended Satan's activities at the time. Following that was the judgment of God upon him and his cohorts and the rewarding of the angels who stayed loyal to God. It was at this time that the ranks of the elect angels were reshuffled with four of them becoming the new guardian cherubim associated with God's Throne and other angels variously retaining their starting positions, rising in rank or losing rank depending on their zeal in siding with God.

However, God's Creation was fractured. God is a Unity even though there are Three Divine Persons Who are all God in Their Own Right. Therefore His Creation is destined to be a Unity as well. In fact, this was what Satan counted on to preserve him from God's Anger. He figured that God would rather let him get away with his shenanigans than fracture creation. But that would not happen. God did permit the fracturing of Creation to separate the rebellious from the faithful.

Then He created man to replace the angels who rebelled. But this time, man was closer to the beasts than to the angels in makeup. He was a physical being with a spirit. Therefore, he had severe limitations in ability and intelligence which the angels did not have. However, he was created this way in order to demonstrate to the angels that all the lies that Satan had told about God in his campaign to get them on his side were really lies. First and most important, being physical beings was not really something that God had denied them. Rather, it was something that God had spared them. As spirits, they possess ability, knowledge and intelligence and freedom from material restraints and needs that we lack because of our bodies.

There were other extremely sophisticated lies many of which in fact the Bible was given to us by God to refute. Each human life is an opportunity to demonstrate the faithfulness and love and power and wisdom of God where Satan had questioned each.

But this is really the answer to the question why the execution of Satan's judgment was delayed. Satan possessed a free will and sought and created an opportunity to exercise it against God. Man, however, was not smart enough to be that evil. This was why God created an opportunity for him to go against Him, if he decided that he wanted to and also why Satan was allowed to try and seduce man into rebellion against God. That was why the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the restored Garden of Eden. It was the test of man's heart. Satan was there just to provide man with an alternative to God.

Man was also given all he needed to stay true to God if he wanted. The Garden was perfection. Even though he was a physical being, he never lacked for anything. Life could not have been better for him. He had the perfect mate, the perfect job, the perfect entertainment and God's friendship. What's more, God gave him every single thing in sight except the one tree. He did not need to know anything about good and evil. What for? But then Satan had it all and also wanted to be God. Evil is always arrogance. We sin by reaching for what we think that we have been denied.

That is how Eve was seduced. Adam joined her in sin knowing what he was doing simply because he was afraid of losing his wife. But in trying to keep her, he forfeited everything else that God had freely given to him. That was the same exact thing that Satan did.

Now, this is the background of everything you complained about in your post.

God is good and loving and beneficent. But He isn't stupid. He made the universe to be good an perfect, not because it would hurt Him in any way if it wasn't but because He wanted His Family of Angels and Men to be happy. He created all these wonders that once existed, are existing and will yet exist for our enjoyment. Evil corrupts these things and renders them unfit for enjoyment. What loving father would not try to clear a playground of dangerous material and animals so that his little ones can play safely?

Satan's revolt and the activities of his angels ruined the fun for everyone, so God destroyed that universe by flooding it. Then He remade it to create Man. Then, Man in disobedience ruined himself as well. And God had to do the whole cleanup routine again.

The pattern has continued. Had death not existed, that is, if we physical beings had not been subject to decay and expiration, can you imagine what evil we could have done? Imagine serial killers who are immortal. Does that seem like good news at all to you? There were many depraved nations throughout history whose continued existence would have extinguished all the conscience left in humanity. There were powerful nations which made a practice of sacrificing their young in despicable ways and whose brutality made them rich and powerful so that even those with a decent conscience started to waver in being good. Sodom and Gomorrah were a good example of such nations. Had God not wiped them out, they would have either corrupted other nations or wiped those nations out themselves.

This is why God continues to clean the board to allow other people to make their own eternal choices about Him. If we choose to submit to Him, we can look forward to eternity in a United, perfect family with God as our loving Father forever. If we don't, well, we get to be without Him or His Gifts eternally too.

Now, Satan does come to steal, to kill and to destroy.

From what I already said, I think that it is obvious that if Satan had not chosen to oppose God and if no other angel had, there would never have been death. God did create Satan and give him a free will like He did the other angels, but it was all Satan when he decided to oust God. That had nothing to do with God. God would rather that all His Creatures exist from beginning to eternity without any pain or suffering of any kind but He gave us a free will so that we can choose to be family with Him or not. He can't have the family He desires if we cannot choose to be that family. And we can only be able to make a true choice to be that family if we can also choose not to be that family. So, death is really all Satan's doing. But God has not left things that way. He has taken responsibility to fix everything the way He has been, using every single choice made by every single person - angel and human - to bring about this family he wants. So, even though death exists as a direct result of Satan's actions, God does use it to keep things on course to creating that perfect eternal tomorrow that all believers look forward to.

You should be able to see that in this, the goodness and love and faithfulness of God is manifest. The fact that people die is regrettable for the most part but God made that possible so that people can continue to choose who and what they want to be. After all, at the end of all of this, every single person who has died will be brought back to life. Then each person will go where they have chosen to be eternally.

So, I think it is actually something to glorify God for that death exists and that He uses it the way that He does. Had Satan succeeded at wresting control of the universe away from God (an impossibility though), I am very certain that we would be in a miserable state of existence. Whenever people have chosen Satan's way, it has never worked out right. Hearts are broken, lives are destroyed, people are killed. Every. Single. Time. The angels who chose Satan did not get bodies for themselves. Even had God left them to their devices eternally, they would never have succeeded at getting what they wanted. The reason is that wisdom belongs to God. Satan knows only what God makes him able to know. That is true with all of us. We can never become self-sufficient. So, if the angels were ever going to have bodies, God was the only One Who could give it to them.

God's Ways may be mysterious but His Character and Personality is manifest in the world around us and in the believers we meet who have taken following Him seriously. And from what we see, we know that we can trust Him even when what He does is beyond our ken.

I would add that when believers die or suffer, this can be God's Discipline or it can be Satan's attack (governed by God's purposes and loving supervision of their lives).

LordReed:


There's nothing in those chapters that say angels were created before men. You just conjectured it same way I am conjecturing about death.

Genesis tells us that the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were created in 6 days, and that God ceased from His work of creation. Ezek. 28:13 affirms that satan(an angel) was created. But we find no mention of God creating angels during the creation week. Therefore angels were created before the creation week.

LordReed:

LoL. You are just a joker.

.

Ok cocky.