dalaman:


If the bible is the word if God you are referring to, then the word of your God is nothing but lies, fables, mythology and fiction.

paxonel:
A 13 years old girl asked this question in church during bible study yesterday
and the teacher could not give a satisfactory reason.
He told her that God is preserving satan for judgment day

paxonel:
but the little girl reminded him that all the sorrows in this world would have been avoided
only if satan who was the cause, and who is still causing more sorrows was killed from the beginning, then there will be no need for judgement.
The preacher could not say anything and when the girl wanted to ask another question,
the teacher practically told her off and end the class, saying he is not in the mood of answering questions any longer

LordReed:
He couldn't answer because the fairytale has more plot holes than a sieve.

paxonel:
Can anyone help us answer the question?

Ihedinobi3:

I don't know that you don't want to know. As I actually said, it's just likely that you don't want to know since rather than ask, you just accused theists of lying about stuff.

The information is whatever it is that you believe that theists are lying about.

Now, I don't know you or what you may have read from other theists but I have put out some pretty "strange" answers on this forum to questions about the Christian Faith. I did it here even. And I have had atheists say exactly the same thing about those answers that you just did. It's an easy, very lazy avoidance of issues. Rather than do the hard work of examining arguments, the atheists prefer to accuse the theist of lying.

That is what I thought you should not do. If you think the argument made or the explanation given is a lie, well, demonstrate that it is with carefully thought out questions and counter-arguments rather than with flat out dismissals that accomplish little more than defamation of character.

asuustrike1:

It is fables, mythology and fiction to you because you lack understanding. Get wisdom and in getting it get understanding

MuttleyLaff:
The teacher is correct, Satan will in due time get his commeupanuce



For the teacher to react by practically telling her off and ending the class, saying he/she is not in the mood of answering questions any longer is likely because he/she was caught out of depth

Dont judge God's decision(s) and/or choice(s), if you dont understand the reason(s)
One just has to trust God's judgement and manner of handling things

At the end, so much would have been learned to make everyone and the world a better place to live in

Would have learned:
1/ How much to love,
2/ How carefully to live, and
3/ How important it is, to let go of things not meant for you

MuttleyLaff:
Now going back to the original question:
"Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset?"

There is an ambiguity in the question and the ambiguity is with "Onset"

Which "Onset" is this?
"Onset" from where, when or what?

---

---

You see Adam (i.e. as in, Man or human beings) is a product of, necessity is the mother of invention
Also note that, a need and/or problem(s) encourages creative effort(s) to meet the need and/or solve the problem(s)

There were two problem situations
and the necessity being the mother of invention, is the start of the solution, to solving the problem situations

It's strongly evident, that there were "situation problems"

The two problem situations were and/or are sin and vacuum created by renegades

This encouraged the Godhead to propose creative efforts to solve the "situation problems"

Man, is the start of the solution, not just only to solving the "situation problems" but is, also, to meet a need

Man (i.e. human beings) is NOT an accidental happening, rather is the product of a well-thought-out plan
hence the earlier reference or earlier use of, necessity is the mother of invention

God IS NOT experimenting with humans
Man or human beings are part of the solution package
Two for the price of one (i.e. man or human beings used to bring about sin eradication and fill vacuum created by renegades)

Necessity is the mother of invention
So we have human beings and if sin were to be found in Man too, then have sin eradication.

Difficult problem(s) & situation(s) (e.g. sin) inspires ingenious solution(s) (e.g. Man or human beings)

Man or human beings are NOT happenstance, hence the earlier and kept repeating, "necessity is the mother of invention".

I believe strongly that God is solving a problem
and the necessity being the mother of invention, is the start of the solution, to solving the problem situations
paxonel DoctorAlien Ihedinobi3

OtemAtum:
God Almighty, the creator of Yahweh and Allah does not have any satan to kill. The bible story is completely false.

sonmvayina:


Yea, I feel you Bro.. The only thing that is true in the bible is the page numbers..

MuttleyLaff:
The teacher is correct, Satan will in due time get his commeupanuce



For the teacher to react by practically telling her off and ending the class, saying he/she is not in the mood of answering questions any longer is likely because he/she was caught out of depth

Dont judge God's decision(s) and/or choice(s), if you dont understand the reason(s) is an advice I would have given the 13 year old girl.
Would also chip in that one just has to trust God's judgement and God's manner of handling things.
God has everything in control.
There is a method in what is seen as madness.

At the end, so much would have been learned to make everyone and the world a better place to live in

Would have learned:
1/ How much to love,
2/ How carefully to live, and
3/ How important it is, to let go of things not meant for you

Now going back to the original question:
"Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset?"

There is an ambiguity in the question and the ambiguity is with "Onset"

Which "Onset" is this?
"Onset" from where, when or what?

---

---

You see Adam (i.e. as in, Man or human beings) is a product of, necessity is the mother of invention
Also note that, a need and/or problem(s) encourages creative effort(s) to meet the need and/or solve the problem(s)

There were two problem situations
and the necessity being the mother of invention, is the start of the solution, to solving the problem situations

It's strongly evident, that there were "situation problems"

The two problem situations were and/or are sin and vacuum created by renegades

This encouraged the Godhead to propose creative efforts to solve the "situation problems"

Man, is the start of the solution, not just only to solving the "situation problems" but is, also, to meet a need

Man (i.e. human beings) is NOT an accidental happening, rather is the product of a well-thought-out plan
hence the earlier reference or earlier use of, necessity is the mother of invention

God IS NOT experimenting with humans
Man or human beings are part of the solution package
Two for the price of one (i.e. man or human beings used to bring about sin eradication and fill vacuum created by renegades)

Necessity is the mother of invention
So we have human beings and if sin were to be found in Man too, then have sin eradication.

Difficult problem(s) & situation(s) (e.g. sin) inspires ingenious solution(s) (e.g. Man or human beings)

Man or human beings are NOT happenstance, hence the earlier and kept repeating, "necessity is the mother of invention".

I believe strongly that God is solving a problem
and the necessity being the mother of invention, is the start of the solution, to solving the problem situations
paxonel DoctorAlien Ihedinobi3

ponziponzi:
I can see that many Christians have doubt about their belief. Why will anyone write a long episode just to answer a simple question?

Dantedasz:



All smoke and mirrors.
The more you look the less you see,in this case,the more answers you read,the less you understand.
Preachers use these tricks a lot,just like performers in a circus. They know their congregation don't read or know the Bible so they cherry pick passages from their book and go on long winding explanations that can not stand up to any logic. If you question the Bible they then use the ultimate control mechanism of reward and punishment-heaven and hell.

paxonel:
you are very on point.

I have imagined what would have become of the brain which was meant for solutions to problems if there were no natural and artificial problems doctored by the devil himself

Will all the investment of the brain and inventive capacity of humans become a big waste if there were no devil creating problems?

Necesssity is the mother of invention.

But then again i asked, Are all problems caused by the devil?

If there are rivers to cross somewhere that is a situation problem like you said, which requires building of bridges, is the problem caused by the devil?

If these kind of problems existed before the devil started alluring adam and eve to commit sin, was it sinful or not that these problems existed in the first place?

We all know that christ have solved the problem of sin which is death, created by the fall of Adam

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

but that did not stop situation problems like these which keep persisting till this day.

ponziponzi:
I can see that many Christians have doubt about their belief. Why will anyone write a long episode just to answer a simple question?

frank317:


Its really quite sad... A simple question and they begin to talk very long story, trying to explain the unexplainable. This is what we call meaningless rambling. Going round and round trying to clarify both ur self and ur audience and make them see a little sense in what u are saying.

At the end of the day their ramblings fall short. U read it all and ask ur self 'what the hell"?!!

Its all clear that the story is as fake as bobrisky's hair. God in the fable has no reason whatsoever to keep the devil alive.

U hear them say its because of the charges Satan leveled against God. Like seriously?... Does God need to prove a point to Satan who waged an unnecessary war(a war he knew he couldn't win) against him.

This God is a needy one... Who would rather let his loving creations suffer to prove a point to his disobedient creations. He is afraid the remaining 1/4 angels will turn their back on him.... All so he could be worshipped and praised day and night. So he rather sent Satan to man to torment him for thousands of years so that he can be in the good book of he creation.

Even a 5years old is wiser than Yahweh.

Ihedinobi3:


I don't think sin or the devil is necessary at all for our brains to work. That is evident in the fact that before Adam sinned, he had a lot to keep him busy and entertained. He was the Ruler of the reclaimed paradise Earth, if you remember. And we are looking forward to eternity with the Trinity without any more sin or Satan. Life can't be dull for all eternity with nothing to do now that there are no more problems to solve. In fact, problems exist today just to show man and the angels God's Incredible Wisdom not to show anybody man's own great intelligence.

Another issue with the above is the idea that death came into existence because of man's sin. It did not. As I said earlier (although you are quite free to not believe it), God used the Universal Flood to kill all physical life in the universe before He created man. So death was already an extant phenomenon before Adam was created.

paxonel:
in otherwords, you are saying that the devil did not create problems like ditches,valleys and rivers needed to be solved by building bridges?

Ihedinobi3:


I don't know of any biblical reason to believe that he did. I think that if he did at all (which is unlikely), it only served to show God's faithfulness and power to deliver those who trust in Him. But it is more likely that these things exist because God made them.

They are rarely problems in themselves. They may be obstacles to things we wish to achieve but when they are, we can lean on the Lord for help to handle them. Although, one need not be a believer to know about building bridges, it is not always wise to build bridges. This is something that believing in the Lord will teach the believer.

Ihedinobi3:


Considering how you disappeared from our exchange only to show up now with falsehoods and insults, it seems rather obvious that you couldn't care less whether there is any truth in the story or not. You just don't want it to be true and perhaps if you mock it enough and distort it enough, it'll go away. It actually won't. Whether you think the actual truth (not this caricature of it you got rather creative with) makes sense or not, you will have to deal with it sooner (in this life) or later (when you awake from the sleep of death to answer to the God Who made your spirit).

frank317:


In all honesty all ur explanations are falling short. The reason u gave does not make a single sense. Its all sounding like how Satan feel about Gos is too important that he had to create man, and test him. And now man has finally failed ... God is like wow, that's Tue point I am trying to make.

frank317:
I don't think I have insulted u...the story in itself makes Yahweh sound like a childish psycho.

frank317:
In another news... Reading ur post makes me feel I can hear u directly. I can assumed(though I could be wrong) that u have a soothing soft and gentle voice... Damn...stop getting I to my head.
I resist u in Jesus name.

Dantedasz:



All smoke and mirrors.
The more you look the less you see,in this case,the more answers you read,the less you understand.
Preachers use these tricks a lot,just like performers in a circus. They know their congregation don't read or know the Bible so they cherry pick passages from their book and go on long winding explanations that can not stand up to any logic. If you question the Bible they then use the ultimate control mechanism of reward and punishment-heaven and hell.

dalaman:


They're just building empty buildings in the sky. Explaining away empty mythologies by fabricating lies upon lies. One even said God destroyed the universe using water. I asked him to show me from the Bible where it says so but he couldn't, he just went to bring verses that say nothing about the universe being destroyed with water, threw them at me and claimed that I didn't understand them so he can't help me. Once your belief is founded on lies, you have to keep telling lies to yourself and others to sustain the belief. . . .

dalaman:


They're just building empty buildings in the sky. Explaining away empty mythologies by fabricating lies upon lies. One even said God destroyed the universe using water. I asked him to show me from the Bible where it says so but he couldn't, he just went to bring verses that say nothing about the universe being destroyed with water, threw them at me and claimed that I didn't understand them so he can't help me. Once your belief is founded on lies, you have to keep telling lies to yourself and others to sustain the belief. . . .

Ihedinobi3:


I'm the one you are talking about?! Wow! You really have no shame. How on earth am I supposed to understand your reading for you as well? Shall I read for you and understand as well?

The first passage from Genesis told you that before man was created, the whole universe was under water ("darkness was upon the face of the deep". The deep is a fairly easy word to understand in the Bible since in the early chapters of Genesis we encounter it and it is always associated with great quantities of water. Why would it be mentioned here in connection with an earth described as a waste and a ruin if not to say that it was the reason for the destruction?

The second from 2 Peter said that the earth was reclaimed from water during the creative period. Why would it say that unless there was prior destruction from which the earth was reclaimed? After all, Gen 1:1 teaches that God created the Universe out of nothing. And clearly, this could not refer to the Noahic Flood since the earth was not said to be formed then.

The third from Isaiah said that God did not create the earth as an uninhabitable place, rather He "formed" it, that is, remade it for habitation.

How do you not see that these things mean that the universe was covered with water at some point?

In addition, given that what follows Gen 1:2 is a description of the re-creation of not only the Earth but the heavens as well, there is that much more evidence that the entire universe was destroyed with water.

It's not surprising to me that you claim that the information isn't there. Even if you really could see it, I would expect you to deny it. It doesn't help your position and preferred cosmology to admit that such a thing may truly be in the Bible because then you may have to deal with the fact that you may not know the Bible as well as you have pretended to yourself and may have been wrong in rejecting it.

Look, the best way to avoid this truth is to reject everything the Bible says regardless whether it is coherent with itself or not. But you have no chance of escaping this as a truth as long as you want to deal with the Bible.

dalaman:



Your opinion of the verse says that the whole universe is under water. How can you even make such a ridiculous and ignorant claim? Whole universe under water? You are deluded. No where in any of the verses you quoted does it even mention the universe or claim that it was destroyed by water because Satan rebelled against God as you claimed originally. You are just making things up and building imaginary castles in the air.

dalaman:
There is no truth in anything you've said. You just made them up and they remain your lies. The bible itself is already a lie, you don't need to add your own lies to it.

DoctorAlien:


Among other things, that GOD was unjust is demanding worship from created beings, and that His eternal Law(the basic tenets of which are summarized and adapted for man in the 10 Commandments) was an unnecessary restriction/limitation placed on intelligent created beings.

asuustrike1:

It is fables, mythology and fiction to you because you lack understanding. Get wisdom and in getting it get understanding

Ihedinobi3:


This is why I said that I couldn't help you. I gave you two sets of Scriptural passages and left you to work it out yourself and you complained that I threw Scriptures at you that said nothing like my claims. Now I have actually explained one set and you dismiss my explanation as my opinion of the verses and complain that they don't say more.

It really is a waste of time with you and people like you.

The Bible says enough for anyone who wants to know to discover the Truth. But you reject whatever the Bible says is true, don't you? Therefore, the Bible will never satisfy you.

LOL. In other words, whether I make things up or I don't, you'll never accept the Bible's testimony. So, why would I bother to make things up? Perhaps for me to feel better believing the Bible? LOL. If I am "smart" enough to make up stories like this because I'm afraid that the Bible doesn't add up, I would not be so "dumb" as to keep believing the Bible anyway, would I?

dalaman:

Why won't you? When the foundation of your belief is lies, you'll have to keep telling lies to defend your belief. . .

LordReed:


More like more and more elaborate tales to explain the plot holes. God can't see evil but somehow Satan can freely go to heaven, you'll get a very fine tale of how God gave Satan everlasting bus pass to enter heaven that was never revoked. LMFAO!

Ihedinobi3:


Very true indeed. I want to make sure that by "born with the natural evil tendencies of the flesh", you mean that our Lord was born with a free will like the rest of us and was just as capable of sin as Adam and Eve were which, without doubt, is very true indeed, not that He was born with a sin nature because He wasn't. Possession of a sin nature would have disqualified Him from being God's Perfect Sacrifice for us.