paxonel:
is it true that there are more satan in africa than elsewhere?
Because, africa is still under developed which may not be the case in most other continents

These foreign religious doctrines i.e xtianity & islam along with other control/dominating schemes of the proposers have created that reality in Africa and praying to the sky is no way to solve it.

frank317:
To make sure u know the implication of ur answer

The implication of what answer?

frank317:
OK good

OK good exactly
and I am quite glad you accept plus agree that God is omniscient, knows the end from the beginning, knows everything.

frank317:
U said God knew they will fail, and u say they didn't have to fail.
Are u say what God knew was probably wrong?

No, I am not saying, what God knew was probably wrong
neither am I saying God's knowledge was a guess work.

Do you remember the context of how the two distinct comments were made?
You cojoined two disjunct comments I made to two different questions
and made it appear as if it is a solo comment

frank317:
Did God know man will fail or not?

MuttleyLaff:
>>>Yes,

frank317:
How can he trust them when he already knew they would fail?

MuttleyLaff:
>>>A moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
It is because they didnt have to fail

frank317:
If God knew they will fail and they don't fail based on the choice they have.
Can u tell me the implication of this on what God knew.

I know you are an author frank317
but I am not sure if you're savvy at all in coding and/or programming
You see, the implication aptly can be told with feature(s) of coding or programming

Ihedinobi3:
I want to add that the question is legitimate and it is a pity, a tragedy, in fact, that a man who styles himself a teacher of the Truth does not know the answer. But this is extremely common in our day today. It is also why so many believers are confused about what the Bible says: because their teachers are either not gifted at all to teach or not taught themselves by properly prepared and gifted teachers.

I hope that you will not hesitate to ask for clarification wherever you need it.

Following is the link I promised. The post that will open on the link is the first of three that I made on that thread to answer the question. Each was quite detailed in response.

https://www.nairaland.com/4783990/satan-vs-god-killed-more#72020406

Don't blame the preacher blame the story, story teller(The OP)

Many so called Christians like the OP who dont have personal relationship with God just join Church without accessing where they want to worship, because they themselves carry little or no knowledge about what they claim they believe.

If I enter a Church and I'm worshiping for the fist time the moment the sermon starts I already know if that would be my first and the last time of worship there. I would know if you are a sound man of God or not.

Is it Oyedepo that someone would ask such a question that would not know what to say.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

OP that your church is a coaching center owned by a quark teacher. That's not a church.

MuttleyLaff:
The implication of what answer?

OK good exactly
and I am quite glad you accept plus agree that God is omniscient, knows the end from the beginning, knows everything.

No, I am not saying, what God knew was probably wrong
neither am I saying God's knowledge was a guess work.

Do you remember the context of how the two distinct comments were made?
You cojoined two disjunct comments I made to two different questions
and made it appear as if it is a solo comment

frank317:
Did God know man will fail or not?

MuttleyLaff:
>>>Yes,

frank317:
How can he trust them when he already knew they would fail?

MuttleyLaff:
>>>A moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
It is because they didnt have to fail

I know you are an author frank317
but I am not sure if you're savvy at all in coding and/or programming
You see, the implication aptly can be told with feature(s) of coding or programming

U guys like twisting simple things just to get away with ur unreasonable beliefs.

Should we even be going back and forth with this?

Its as simple as ABC

If God knew that Adam and eve were going to fail... Then Adam and even couldn't have made the choice not to fail.
If God knew Adam and Eve were Going to fail and Adam and Eve made a choice that didn't make them fail then what God knew was wrong... Or God was just guess that they might fail.

frank317:
U guys like twisting simple things just to get away with ur unreasonable beliefs.

Should we even be going back and forth with this?

Its as simple as ABC

If God knew that Adam and Eve were going to fail... Then Adam and even couldn't have made the choice not to fail.
If God knew Adam and Eve were Going to fail and Adam and Eve made a choice that didn't make them fail then what God knew was wrong...
Or God was just guess that they might fail.

I knew its only going to be a matter of time before you start casting aspersions.
Please hold on to your knickers and stop getting emotional

It will be a very good and welcome expected outcome if they don't fail
and the implication is that we wouldn't in the first place be having this conversation

As I said earlier, I know you are an author frank317
but I am not sure if you're savvy at all in coding and/or programming
because the implication can also aptly be told with feature(s) of coding or programming

frank317:


U guys like twisting simple things just to get away with ur unreasonable beliefs.

Should we even be going back and forth with this?

Its as simple as ABC

If God knew that Adam and eve were going to fail... Then Adam and even couldn't have made the choice not to fail.
If God knew Adam and Eve were Going to fail and Adam and Eve made a choice that didn't make them fail then what God knew was wrong... Or God was just guess that they might fail.

Its a paradox they don't have an answer to because the book was written by flesh and blood men like them and none of them can think like a truly transcendent god. The best they can come up with is a deflection eg free will. How does free will stop a transcendent god from acting for the best interests of his own creation. Zero answers that make any sort of sense unless you are spirit led aka self deceived.

MuttleyLaff:
I knew its only going to be a matter of time before you start casting aspersions.
Please hold on to your knickers and stop getting emotional

It will be a very good and welcome expected outcome if they don't fail
and the implication is that we wouldn't in the first place be having this conversation

As I said earlier, I know you are an author frank317
but I am not sure if you're savvy at all in coding and/or programming
because the implication can also aptly be told with feature(s) of coding or programming

Pls does anyone else understand what this guy is saying?

It will be and welcome expectation if they don't fail... Is this in ur mind or in Gods mind?
If God already knew they will fail... Why is he hoping they won't? Perhaps he was not sure they will actually fail?

frank317:


Pls does anyone else understand what this guy is saying?

He said "nidsnbufbulrkjnnied cksnifbienfibd disihfinf jshhue ncidnivfbudkfn"

That's all

tamethem:


Don't blame the preacher blame the story, story teller(The OP)

Many so called Christians like the OP who dont have personal relationship with God just join Church without accessing where they want to worship, because they themselves carry little or no knowledge about what they claim they believe.

If I enter a Church and I'm worshiping for the fist time the moment the sermon starts I already know if that would be my first and the last time of worship there. I would know if you are a sound man of God or not.

Is it Oyedepo that someone would ask such a question that would not know what to say.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

OP that your church is a coaching center owned by a quark teacher. That's not a church.

but you did not provide the answer to the op's question now, obviously you too dont know the answer.

frank317:
Pls does anyone else understand what this guy is saying

I sympathise with you and your limitation (s)

frank317:
It will be a welcome expectation if they don't fail...
Is this in ur mind or in Gods mind?

Its the former tuned into the latter

frank317:
If God already knew they will fail...
Why is he hoping they won't?
Perhaps he was not sure they will actually fail?

He is not hoping they won't
but it'll be nice if they didn't, as this conversation at the least, wouldn't be seeing the light of the day.

Having said that, the reality is that failing will ultimately make them a better person
and decisively be able to deal with the other situational problem

God is aware and sure they will disappoint
What was put in place is evidence He knew they will.
Work had been planned and put on standby to get set into motion from after when they will fail from eating the fruit

MuttleyLaff:
I sympathise with you and your limitation (s)

Its the former tuned into the latter

He is not hoping they won't
but it'll be nice if they didn't, as this conversation at the least, wouldn't be seeing the light of the day.

Having said that, the reality is that failing will ultimately make them a better person
and decisively be able to deal with the other situational problem

God is aware and sure they will disappoint
What was put in place is evidence He knew they will.
Work had been planned and put on standby to get set into motion from after when they will fail from eating the fruit

Why then are u prolonging issues.

Isn't this the reason why I gave this response to Ihedinobi:

God knew they would fail if he gave man free will and he started putting plans in place... He was like.. "Hey Jesus my son. I am going to give man free will and he will fail so prepare urself for sacrifice in 4000 years time."
He also put plans in place to curse Adam and Eve and pursue them from the garden of Eden. He also put plans in place to destroy the earth with water in 2000 years time. And he put plans in place by building hellfire for those who use their free will wrongly.

Its a disgusting belief I think.

frank317:
Why then are u prolonging issues.

You come across as a highly imaginative, easy going, clever and smart guy
so what are you grousing about?
Why and what about God are you angry over?
Do you think you remotely have a legitimate right to settling a score with God?
Why the highly charged up negative energy?
Have you a beef and/or problem with God?
What gangan is the problem bro?
What issues are you accusing me of prolonging frank317?

frank317:
Isn't this the reason why I gave this response to Ihedinobi:

God knew they would fail if he gave man free will and he started putting plans in place...
He was like..
"Hey Jesus my son. I am going to give man free will and he will fail so prepare urself for sacrifice in 4000 years time."
He also put plans in place to curse Adam and Eve and pursue them from the garden of Eden.
He also put plans in place to destroy the earth with water in 2000 years time.
And he put plans in place by building hellfire for those who use their free will wrongly..

This is lacklustre, below par and as dull as ditchwater conjecture laced with ignorance

You are too uninformed and reveal your inadequate awareness of facts
and unsurprisingly, is why there are more holes than Swiss cheese in your warped summation

#IfYouKnowYouKnow
If you know, you know and who no know, no go know

No wonder you're an author, as opposed to, at the least, be a fledgling coder or programmer

frank317:
Its a disgusting belief I think.

What a hypocritical remark to make.
Are you absolved from being disgusting and/or from never being disgusting?

The cheek of it, calling good old fashion basic algorithm disgusting. Pffft. SMH

MuttleyLaff:
You come across as a highly imaginative, easy going, clever and smart guy
so what are you grousing about?
Why and what about God are you angry over?
Do you think you remotely have a legitimate right to settling a score with God?
Why the highly charged up negative energy?
Have you a beef and/or problem with God?
What gangan is the problem bro?
What issues are you accusing me of prolonging frank317?

Anger with a God again... The answer u gave in ur last post I quoted was the same thing Ihedinobi replied... Was wandering why u came in like u had something new to say.

This is lacklustre, below par and as dull as ditchwater conjecture laced with ignorance

You are too uninformed and reveal your inadequate awareness of facts
and unsurprisingly, is why there are more holes than Swiss cheese in your warped summation

#IfYouKnowYouKnow
If you know, you know and who no know, no go know

No wonder you're an author, as opposed to, at the least, be a fledgling coder or programmer

Are we discussing a completely different topic here?

Well... I might not be a programmer, but coming up with my kind of stories required deep out of the box thinking...

Well back to topic... Actually my little narration above sums up what u mean when when u say God knew man would fail if he gave him free will and pit some plan in place to redeem man... I guess this messy world we are in is a result of his well thought out plan.

What a hypocritical remark to make.
Are you absolved from being disgusting and/or from never being disgusting?

The cheek of it, calling good old fashion basic algorithm disgusting. Pffft. SMH

I am not absolved from being called disgusting... How does that stop me from seeing this shitty believe of urs as disgusting.

frank317:

No problem

I am back for now. If I leave unceremoniously, bear with me, please.

frank317:
I clearly think we saying the same thing.
God didn't intend to create a world with sin and rebellious beings, but that's what we have now... He even regretted creating man at a time...
Guy, accept it, things went out of his control. Ur believe is shitty.

It does seem like the prospect of not having me back here made you go to town with straw man fallacies and ad hominem.

No, we obviously are not. I could say it a thousand times though and you'd still say this. I am not sure if you really don't understand what I am saying or if you are deliberately misrepresenting my arguments. Let me restate it for clarity:

God created a perfect world which He wanted to remain perfect but which He knew would not. So, He prepared even before Creation to fix the mess that would occur when some of His creatures decided to rebel against Him.

Regarding regrets, there is such a thing as anthropopathism. It is a well-known, well-documented literary device. The Bible uses it to make God understandable to human beings. He never regrets anything because He knows all things, even the end from the beginning. But how are we to appreciate how God is toward us and toward our choices unless it is described in terms conceivable to us? Feel free to share whatever you think is the answer beside anthropopathism.

frank317:
What's there to correct? This is what u said below
He knew that it would happen once He gave the angels a free will. This is why He made provisions for fixing the damage that would result from sin. That was the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ which redeemed Man and healed the damage in Creation and guaranteed the Eternal Family of God.
I think that's stupidity in the highest order for a God. U knew ur decision to give mab freewill will mess things up and u acted like a lost being with no other option and started deciding how u will redeem and punish man... What's that?

Now that you presented the quote itself, I'm fine. As the quote said, it was giving free will to the angels, not to man that I said led to everything. But it is true that possession of free will by man also played a part but I have reasons for putting things the way I do.

If you think you know better about being God, that's between you and God. I have no place in that argument. My bit is to make sure that you get what I believe the Bible to say.

frank317:
Sorry Satan is right here... No wonder God has been trying to prove a point to him since beginning of time even at the expense of Man's happiness. Rubbish believe.

Okay.

frank317:
It might also do u good to check urself in a mental home. Thank me later too.

I thank you for the thought for my welfare. Now, my own bit of advice to you is to take a moment and really think about your opposition to God. What really do you gain from it that is worth the risk of losing eternal life just because you're mad about what pain and suffering we must endure for not much more than 80 earth-years? Even as an unbeliever, you still suffer even if not as much as a believer may? Yet, believers have real comfort and a real hope that gets them through the pain. What do you have? Sex? Drugs? Alcohol? Sports? Music? What is it you have that doesn't get old and boring sometimes?

frank317:
I think u are really sick bro.

I knew that already. I know you think wrong too.

frank317:
Its quite clear bro. God has set man up for suffering so that he would learn. I hope u are beginning to see he dysfunctional ur belief is.

Nope, I am not at all. Nothing about this conversation is new to me or has taught me anything I didn't already know. Man and the angels are all learning about God from man's experiences in this life, yes. Man is suffering today because man sins. God did not set us up for suffering. That is just the consequence of sin. He has actually been working on removing suffering completely from His Creation. And not too long from now, He will.

frank317:
Lol... U can't be feigning ignorance and ask me for proof of things u claim to know.

LOL. This is what you said:

"...ur God enjoys watching the devil possess bokoharam to kill his followers?"

Now, please prove it. I don't know if you thought I'd forget.

frank317:
There was actually no need for dictionary as we weren't even arguing on the meaning of assumption... I am only asking u not to take assumed statements too seriously.

You can't take a word, make up any meaning you like for it and try to force me to accept your meaning and even apply it to what I say too.

frank317:
Good to know that u are already used to being called crazy. Judging by ur responses that its love if God allows Satan to kill ur family... I think u need fast help.

Okay. However, let me point something out to you. We never know when our time will come. You don't control the moment of your demise. The sooner you quit fighting against God - a losing battle, if there ever was one - the better for you. Once you breathe your last, all chances are done. You don't get any other opportunity. All you will have to look forward to is an eternity of pain and suffering like nothing you are complaining about here.

frank317:
Anger with a God again...
The answer u gave in ur last post I quoted was the same thing Ihedinobi replied...
Was wandering why u came in like u had something new to say

What answer did I give, that you claim is the same thing Ihedinobi replied

frank317:
Are we discussing a completely different topic here?

I hope we arent
but just to be sure we are singing from the same hymn book, the topic is: Why didnt God kill Satan from the onset?

frank317:
Well... I might not be a programmer, but coming up with my kind of stories required deep out of the box thinking...

It is a disadvantage that you arent at the least, a fledgling coder or programmer.

Rudimentary knowledge of coding or programming would make a world of difference in your understanding
that will prevent you from asking or quering, how if God knows, did God still went ahead creating Adam, knowing Adam will fail etcetera

frank317:
Well back to topic...
Actually my little narration above sums up what u mean when when u say God knew man would fail
if he gave him free will and pit some plan in place to redeem man...
I guess this messy world we are in is a result of his well thought out plan.

You have started again showing inadequate awareness of the facts.
Adam isnt the first given free will. Adam isnt the first to sin or if you like, isnt the first to fail
So you see, before Adam made his debut, we've had a situational problem,
calmly hanging in the shadow & wing, eager and keen to fester, if given half the chance

frank317:
I am not absolved from being called disgusting...
How does that stop me from seeing this shitty believe of urs as disgusting.

You're acting as if your fart has a deodorized good smell.
That's how and why I typed that you made a hypocritical remark.

What specifically and where exactly is the disgust in the comment you turned your nose up at

LordReed:


LoL! So what was the arrangement called? A covenant? LMAO!

It was neither a bet nor a covenant. It was permission offered to another to do something. But if you insist that it is a bet, we can do the routine and find a dictionary and you show how everything in that event fits into the definition of a bet.

LordReed:
Because there are none for you to dig.

"...150 people should die all by the hand of his enemy because of a stupid bet."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72271639

"...the writers, unsophisticated as they were, could not think of any way a truly transcendent being would behave."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72271639

"...the originator of evil has an everlasting bus pass to the one who you say cannot abide evil."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72270833

"You just bring up elaborate conjectures that are not in the text."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72269361

LordReed:
This is a word salad that has little sense to it, may be rephrase to better communicate what you mean.

I'll explain anything you point out there that makes no sense to you. So just point it out.

LordReed:
I didn't respond to you so your need to respond to me is your headache.

Okay.

LordReed:
LoL. Jesus says Satan is the father of lies and that is not a personification? Dude you make me laugh with your disingeniousness.

You don't need to ask me. Just google it up or ask any user of the English language. "Father of lies" is not a personification. It does mean that Satan is the originator of lies, not that he is lies themselves. He does not personify evil, he was the first one to do evil and he seduced others into it. That does not make him the personification of evil. It makes him the champion of it.

LordReed:
LoL. God supposedly kicked Satan out of heaven for rebelling then he still can go to heaven and that is not an everlasting bus pass? What is God according to your fictional clarification summoning his enemy to heaven for? The holy god summoning the evil satan. LMAO!

It is a common idea that God kicked Satan out of Heaven but that is not true. It is not written that he has been. It is written as a prophecy that it is completely without doubt that he will be.

He is summoned to God because he is an angel, a member of the Family of God for now. He has responsibility still to God. This is why God would ask him what he had been up to. This is also why believers know that Satan cannot harm them at will. He must have God's express permission or else no dice.

LordReed:
A clear contradiction of what heaven and god are supposed to be like. A spotless heaven and a holy god getting a chummy visit from evil satan is not waved away by telling us god summoned satan. You only gave a dull reason why the devil still has access to this fictional spotless heaven, you didn't address the contradiction.

Satan is a rebel, yes. Still he is one of God's angels. If God chooses to have him come to Heaven to give a report of his station on earth, then he must go. He cannot corrupt God or the elect angels. What is more likely is that he could be destroyed by God. This is an obvious reason why he would rather never go to Heaven. But when he is summoned, he has no choice in the matter.

LordReed:
LoL, your posts are proof of agitation. Warning me of "what the Father of all believers and the Captain of our Faith will do to them", thats the card Christians play when they start loosing their grip or they play the victim card "There was a time that believers were thrown to lions and burned at stakes because it entertained unbelievers. I don't see that much of a distance from mocking someone's choice of beliefs to actually making sport of killing them or torturing them for it." LoLz.

Perhaps it is such a card. But it is still a fact...or, at least, it is what we believe. So, we warn everyone so that they know what they are dealing with. That does not mean that I am agitated.

tamethem:


Don't blame the preacher blame the story, story teller(The OP)

Many so called Christians like the OP who dont have personal relationship with God just join Church without accessing where they want to worship, because they themselves carry little or no knowledge about what they claim they believe.

If I enter a Church and I'm worshiping for the fist time the moment the sermon starts I already know if that would be my first and the last time of worship there. I would know if you are a sound man of God or not.

Is it Oyedepo that someone would ask such a question that would not know what to say.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

OP that your church is a coaching center owned by a quark teacher. That's not a church.

It does sound like you are very discerning. That is very good. I do wonder why you believe that Oyedepo could answer that question though. Nothing I remember about him suggests to me that he would know the answer but then it's been quite a while since I read anything from him.

It is true that each believer is responsible to test their teacher and make sure that they are learning from someone who can teach them the Truth. And here what the OP did seems to me to be just that test.

Ihedinobi3:

It was neither a bet nor a covenant. It was permission offered to another to do something. But if you insist that it is a bet, we can do the routine and find a dictionary and you show how everything in that event fits into the definition of a bet.

LMFAO! Oh my days. I am so shaking with laughter I'll let the dictionary do the talking.

B1 [ T ] informal If you say you bet (someone) that something is true or will happen, you mean you are certain that it is true or will happen:

[ + (that) ] I bet you (that) she's missed the bus.
I bet (that) he won't come.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bet

"...150 people should die all by the hand of his enemy because of a stupid bet."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72271639

"...the writers, unsophisticated as they were, could not think of any way a truly transcendent being would behave."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72271639

"...the originator of evil has an everlasting bus pass to the one who you say cannot abide evil."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72270833

"You just bring up elaborate conjectures that are not in the text."
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/3#72269361

LoL! Apparently its you who doesn't understand the meaning of words and needs to look up the meaning of lie. Or maybe its conjecture you need to understand.

I'll explain anything you point out there that makes no sense to you. So just point it out.

All of it makes no sense.

You don't need to ask me. Just google it up or ask any user of the English language. "Father of lies" is not a personification. It does mean that Satan is the originator of lies, not that he is lies themselves. He does not personify evil, he was the first one to do evil and he seduced others into it. That does not make him the personification of evil. It makes him the champion of it.

LoL. Such disingenuousness. So lies can have a father? Who did satan impregnate to give birth to lies? LoL you explained the meaning of the personification as an attempt to say it is not a personification, do you even know what you are writing? Maybe look up the difference between personification and anthropomorphism.

It is a common idea that God kicked Satan out of Heaven but that is not true. It is not written that he has been. It is written as a prophecy that it is completely without doubt that he will be.

He is summoned to God because he is an angel, a member of the Family of God for now. He has responsibility still to God. This is why God would ask him what he had been up to. This is also why believers know that Satan cannot harm them at will. He must have God's express permission or else no dice.

LoL. I don't even know where to begin with this kooky explanation. Satan rebelled but is somehow still given responsibilities, like do you even know the meaning of cognitive dissonance? More and more it seems you have need of a dictionary.

Satan is a rebel, yes. Still he is one of God's angels. If God chooses to have him come to Heaven to give a report of his station on earth, then he must go. He cannot corrupt God or the elect angels. What is more likely is that he could be destroyed by God. This is an obvious reason why he would rather never go to Heaven. But when he is summoned, he has no choice in the matter.

LoL. When I use the metaphor "everlasting bus pass" what do you think it means? I think you need a refresher course in figure of speech.

Perhaps it is such a card. But it is still a fact...or, at least, it is what we believe. So, we warn everyone so that they know what they are dealing with. That does not mean that I am agitated.

Such cards don't come out until frustration sets in because you can't persuade "the unbelievers" to see your point of view on your fairytale. Don't worry though, we take it as part of the fairytale, nothing spoil.

Ihedinobi3:

It does sound like you are very discerning. That is very good. I do wonder why you believe that Oyedepo could answer that question though. Nothing I remember about him suggests to me that he would know the answer but then it's been quite a while since I read anything from him.

It is true that each believer is responsible to test their teacher and make sure that they are learning from someone who can teach them the Truth. And here what the OP did seems to me to be just that test.

Yes you seem to be somehow right but what I am driving at is for the Op to get to know that his Pastor is incompetent not until that question by the little girl shows that he himself is not so sound spiritually. I can't attend more than two services before knowing the quality of the man preaching in front of me. In fact he has to know more than I do spiritually, and once I see that his teaching is below standard, don't expect me next Sunday. I will rather stay home and listen to sermons on the Radio.

I was in SA sometime, I was supposed to spend a month , so On the first Sunday I asked at the hotel where a church is around someone said its like one is across the road not too far from the hotel I stayed I was very glad. When this young Ghanaian pastor would start sermon it was like someone in the children department of my church addressing the children I was like what is this?

The next Sunday I attended the same Church and this time around it was worse. This young man was just boasting. How he felt when he first made his first 1 million Rands, the kind of sleek car he dreams to buy that is called MOG. it was later translated as Oh My God by him. He kept boasting about money richies till the end. Do u know what I did the next Monday? I asked and asked until I got the address of the nearest Winners. The next Sunday I went there straight, when it was time for sermon the moment it started I said thank you Jesus. You will know that this is a sermon.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

MuttleyLaff:
What answer did I give, that you claim is the same thing Ihedinobi replied

I hope we arent
but just to be sure we are singing from the same hymn book, the topic is: Why didnt God kill Satan from the onset?

It is a disadvantage that you arent at the least, a fledgling coder or programmer.

Rudimentary knowledge of coding or programming would make a world of difference in your understanding
that will prevent you from asking or quering, how if God knows, did God still went ahead creating Adam, knowing Adam will fail etcetera

You havent started again showing inadequate awareness of the facts.
Adam isnt the first given free will. Adam isnt the first to sin or if you like, isnt the first to fail
So you see, before Adam made his debut, we've had a situational problem,
calmly hanging in the shadow & wing, eager and keen to fester, if given half the chance

You're acting as if your fart has a deodorized good smell.
That's how and why I typed that you made a hypocritical remark.

What specifically and where exactly is the disgust in the comment you turned your nose up at

U obviously want to waste my time.

frank317:
U obviously want to waste my time.

"Many atheists pretend to have discovered the secret to intelligence once they reject Christ but that is really nonsense.
Some whose arguments I once knew are now very intellectually lazy since rejecting Christ.
It is perfectly normal to atheism to be that way because atheism is a reaction against emotional and intellectual stress.
It is by definition very lazy philosophically."
- Ihedinobi: 8:41pm On Oct 23 ©

You've so far ticked almost all the boxes
Played the emotional card - check mark
Played the ad hominem card - check mark
Played straw man - check mark
Have an inner twisted mind - check mark
Have no stamina - check mark

I willingly pay attention to you
because if you are sharing something worthwhile, then its time, really not wasted.
Nothing valuable can be lost by taking time

There is a difference between suffer fools gladly and your "obviously want to waste my time" funny feeling
It's a perspective thing

Do you know what time it is, frank317?
It's high time you drop the sentimental nonsense and excuse(s)
Wake up and smell the coffee frank317

The light of the truth can be harsh to those that are in the dark.
It's why, sometimes it’s enough, just to plant the seed, walk away,
and leave the flower, to grow on its own.

MuttleyLaff:
"Many atheists pretend to have discovered the secret to intelligence once they reject Christ but that is really nonsense.
Some whose arguments I once knew are now very intellectually lazy since rejecting Christ.
It is perfectly normal to atheism to be that way because atheism is a reaction against emotional and intellectual stress.
It is by definition very lazy philosophically."
- Ihedinobi: 8:41pm On Oct 23 ©

You've so far ticked almost all the boxes
Played the emotional card - check mark
Played the ad hominem card - check mark
Played straw man - check mark
Have an inner twisted mind - check mark
Have no stamina - check mark

I willingly pay attention to you
because if you are sharing something worthwhile, then its time, really not wasted.
Nothing valuable can be lost by taking time

There is a difference between suffer fools gladly and your "obviously want to waste my time" funny feeling
It's a perspective thing

Do you know what time it is, frank317?
It's high time you drop the sentimental nonsense and excuse(s)
Wake up and smell the coffee frank317

The light of the truth can be harsh to those that are in the dark.
It's why, sometimes it’s enough, just to plant the seed, walk away,
and leave the flower, to grow on its own.

As far as I am concerned u don't even have a point to make... Whenever I read ur post I wonder if u were responding to what I wrote. U are not making any sense to me sorry.

frank317:


As far as I am concerned u don't even have a point to make... Whenever I read ur post I wonder if u were responding to what I wrote. U are not making any sense to me sorry.

That's how mutt debates. He types a lot but ends up posting nothing of value. The only good thing about him is that he isn't an extremist or fundamentalist

Ihedinobi3:

I am back for now. If I leave unceremoniously, bear with me, please.



It does seem like the prospect of not having me back here made you go to town with straw man fallacies and ad hominem.

No, we obviously are not. I could say it a thousand times though and you'd still say this. I am not sure if you really don't understand what I am saying or if you are deliberately misrepresenting my arguments. Let me restate it for clarity:

God created a perfect world which He wanted to remain perfect but which He knew would not. So, He prepared even before Creation to fix the mess that would occur when some of His creatures decided to rebel against Him.

Listen to urself. What kind of word salad is this? "God created a perfect word he wanted to remain perfect which he knew would not" does this even make sense?
What's perfect about a word that cannot remain perfect? That means God was not capable of keeping his perfect world perfect. God wanted something he knew he couldn't get? Eyaa...Lol.
OK so he made preparation knowing his perfect world will not be perfect.
So is he preparation not for jesus to die? So why do u act as if I don't get ur when I said he asked Jesus to prepare for death in 4000 years time...
Is the punishment of those who disbelieve not part of his preparation?
How does ur explanation above make ur God more greater and reasonable than any man on earth... Even my six year old niece will have a better plan.

Regarding regrets, there is such a thing as anthropopathism. It is a well-known, well-documented literary device. The Bible uses it to make God understandable to human beings. He never regrets anything because He knows all things, even the end from the beginning. But how are we to appreciate how God is toward us and toward our choices unless it is described in terms conceivable to us? Feel free to share whatever you think is the answer beside anthropopathism.

The bible said God regretted creating man.. U can go and change the word in the bible or edit it to mean what u want regret to mean.

Now that you presented the quote itself, I'm fine. As the quote said, it was giving free will to the angels, not to man that I said led to everything. But it is true that possession of free will by man also played a part but I have reasons for putting things the way I do.

Angel or man... Did the result change? Everything ur God creates fell apart, and the worst part was that he knew they would fall apart and made preparation... Yet all we still have is a world filled with pain, sorry, happiness, sadness, ups and down. And the devil has been doing his thing. So what did he put in place that makes any sense after knowing that the free will he was given was going to mess things up?
Is he that clueless? I still think the belief is stupid.

If you think you know better about being God, that's between you and God. I have no place in that argument. My bit is to make sure that you get what I believe the Bible to say.

Your God does not exist. If he does we wouldn't have such an unorganized world.

I thank you for the thought for my welfare. Now, my own bit of advice to you is to take a moment and really think about your opposition to God. What really do you gain from it that is worth the risk of losing eternal life just because you're mad about what pain and suffering we must endure for not much more than 80 earth-years? Even as an unbeliever, you still suffer even if not as much as a believer may? Yet, believers have real comfort and a real hope that gets them through the pain. What do you have? Sex? Drugs? Alcohol? Sports? Music? What is it you have that doesn't get old and boring sometimes?

Your God does not exist... If he does then he is the most clueless God in the history of Gods.
Sorry I don't believe in eternal life and all that, so what I wrote above makes absolute no sense to me.

Nope, I am not at all. Nothing about this conversation is new to me or has taught me anything I didn't already know. Man and the angels are all learning about God from man's experiences in this life, yes. Man is suffering today because man sins. God did not set us up for suffering. That is just the consequence of sin. He has actually been working on removing suffering completely from His Creation. And not too long from now, He will.

I'd the bible is true, than man is suffering today because he has a clueless God who knew giving man and angels free will will mess his world up but went ahead to to give to them and has been running helter skelter trying to fix him mess.

LOL. This is what you said:

"...ur God enjoys watching the devil possess bokoharam to kill his followers?"

Now, please prove it. I don't know if you thought I'd forget.

Prove what?
That ur God does not see bokoharam kill Christian?
That he is doing nothing about it?
That he is not enjoying it (the way he enjoyed devil deal with Job)
That u don't think he should do anything since its part of his love even if its ur family that is being killed.
Prove what exactly... Everything I said is based on ur response to the way he allowed Satan deal with poor Job.
U called it love and said u wouldn't mind him doing it to u... U wouldn't mind if he allows bokoharam kill ur family after all u will get over them, beside God understand that there is a greater life after death so its good he allows the devil deal with u.

You can't take a word, make up any meaning you like for it and try to force me to accept your meaning and even apply it to what I say too.

Oga..I never was arguing meaning of assumption with u... I only said u shouldn't take it too seriously. I didn't know why u had to pull the dictionary. Assumptions are just mere guess works that could be right or wrong. They are not confident statements... I am not contesting meaning of assumption with u, I said don't take it seriously. Simple.

Okay. However, let me point something out to you. We never know when our time will come. You don't control the moment of your demise. The sooner you quit fighting against God - a losing battle, if there ever was one - the better for you. Once you breathe your last, all chances are done. You don't get any other opportunity. All you will have to look forward to is an eternity of pain and suffering like nothing you are complaining about here.

I am sorry ur God is as fake as bobrisky's hair. When ever I die is okay. I just do not wish to die soon.I am not like u that is scared of what will happen after death... U can live with that fear all ur life... I only pity u.
However i wish there is after life... Ur God need to be punished for creating such a shitty world.

frank317:


As far as I am concerned u don't even have a point to make... Whenever I read ur post I wonder if u were responding to what I wrote. U are not making any sense to me sorry.

RuthlessLeader:

That's how mutt debates. He types a lot but ends up posting nothing of value. The only good thing about him is that he isn't an extremist or fundamentalist

LoL! I thought it was just me, good to know I'm in good company.

frank317:
As far as I am concerned u don't even have a point to make... Whenever I read ur post I wonder if u were responding to what I wrote.
U are not making any sense to me sorry.

I was just about wondering when you will admit you are out of your depth....
Scurry away with your tail hid and dangling between your limp legs

MuttleyLaff:
I was just about wondering when you will admit you are out of your depth....
Scurry away with your tail hid and dangling between your limp legs

Why so aggressive like a dog marking its territory? You know you and your crew haven't said anything to answer the Op

@ Ihedinobi3 & MuttleyLaff

You have no answer to this 13 year old girl's question so it's better you just say so.

MuttleyLaff:
I was just about wondering when you will admit you are out of your depth....
Scurry away with your tail hid and dangling between your limp legs

lol... i just didnt know where to begin with u... I am glad i am not the only one who feel that way.

I could spend the whole month interacting with u and end up wondering if u even know what u are sayin.

I think u are just out to waste my time... sorry, i dont have time for waste.

RuthlessLeader:

Why so aggressive like a dog marking its territory? You know you and your crew haven't said anything to answer the Op

I seriously dont know what he is feeling like. God perhaps.

If the 13 year old was reading their response she would even be more confused.

Imagine, God knew freewill will mess his world up after introducing it ans made preparations for the worst that will happen... yet today, millions are on their way to hell with the devil. SMH, so much for putting things in place.

They are all a bunch of clowns.

Life we live we will never understand even when people thinks all of Gods plan was narrated in the Bible...now it's feels like God just enjoy making babies in the womb even when he knows we all gono perish in mass.....trust me if God was man and knowing all of this plans of his....we surely will ask for him to be voted out as God...so then let's have a rethink of who God really is.

Idecievedyou:
Life we live we will never understand even when people thinks all of Gods plan was narrated in the Bible...now it's feels like God just enjoy making babies in the womb even when he knows we all gono perish in mass.....trust me if God was man and knowing all of this plans of his....we surely will ask for him to be voted out as God...so then let's have a rethink of who God really is.

The god that was too lazy to write his own comprehensive, "un-counterfeitable" book? You mean that god? Yeah, no way that's a real god.