IkpuMmadu:


Is he in afenifere?

fero007:
its only in this nairaland that i hear that itsekiri is yoruba o

scholes0:


I'll come back to you with details because right now, I can't type long notes.



You are knocking yourself out, seriously.
You started it yourself, by making a list of ethnic groups that ARE NOT the same but share close kinship, and then are getting confused over same issue. The strongest links itsekiris have with any other ethnic group are with Yorubas.
Is Epie Urhobo?

Sinistami:


Thank you o. Epie is more farther apart from Urhobo than Itshekiri from Yoruba. other than that I my self still think Itshekiri isn't Yoruba because language isn't the only thing to define an ethnic group. They entire culture and Traditions and worldview is very different from Yoruba and Closer to Its Neighbours Urhobos Ijaw and Edo etc.

scholes0:


I'll come back to you with details because right now, I can't type long notes.



You are knocking yourself out, seriously.
You started it yourself, by making a list of ethnic groups that ARE NOT the same but share close kinship, and then are getting confused over same issue. The strongest links itsekiris have with any other ethnic group are with Yorubas.
Is Epie Urhobo?

TAO11:



Regardless of what the average Itsekiri person today thinks, his own tradition claims they are part of the Olukumi folk and as such they are sons and daughters of Oduduwa.

A quick google search on the internet will show u that the Itsekiri language is regarded as

"a major branch of the Yoruboid group of languages".

In fact, from my research I have come to realize that the Itsekiri dialect (as well as other Eastern flank Yoruba dialects like Ekiti, Yagba, Owo, Ijebu, Kabba) and to some extent the Ife dialect are the most ancient Yoruba dialects.

We can discuss this further if you're interested

fero007:


thank God u know i said ethnic groups with CLOSE simliarities, ive lived in warri so i know dat apart from language (which is not even that close) they is no other cultural similarity btw itsekiri n yoruba. itsekiri are believe to come from bini lead by ginuwa, their customs are edo related, in terms of other aspects of culture, (food, dressing, dance, way of life) they re FAR FAR CLOSER to ijaw n urhobo sef than to yorubas

fero007:


thank God u know i said ethnic groups with CLOSE simliarities, ive lived in warri so i know dat apart from language (which is not even that close) they is no other cultural similarity btw itsekiri n yoruba. itsekiri are believe to come from bini lead by ginuwa, their customs are edo related, in terms of other aspects of culture, (food, dressing, dance, way of life) they re FAR FAR CLOSER to ijaw n urhobo sef than to yorubas

Sinistami:


Thank you o. Epie is more farther apart from Urhobo than Itshekiri from Yoruba. other than that I my self still think Itshekiri isn't Yoruba because language isn't the only thing to define an ethnic group. They entire culture and Traditions and worldview is very different from Yoruba and Closer to Its Neighbours Urhobos Ijaw and Edo etc.

scholes0:


Itsekiri relationship with Urhobo and Ijaw is ephemeral and lateral in nature. i.e it is as a result of the virtue of them being neighbors. It can also change at any time depending on the prevailing circumstances. Consider a scenario where itsekiris became a province in Western Nigeria, their visible culture would significantly shift more towards what you are referring to as the general Yoruba culture now, even if they will still retain some uniqueness. Take for example, even now, despite the fact that Itsekiris are not in the SW, many Itsekiris already wear Agbadas.....

What you don't know is that to a large extent, people's material culture is also shaped by politics and regionalization, especially in a country like Nigeria. On the other hand, The Itsekiri relationship with Yoruba is more nodal/ vertical in nature...i.e (direct descent) and can never be changed. All the primordial villages and clans in itsekiri land came from Yorubaland, except perhaps Ode Itsekiri and the Royal Court.
Itsekiris will simply be like their Ilaje brothers after 30 years in the SW, believe it or not. Apoi a lost Ijaw clan in Ondo state have become fully assimilated as Yorubas, and You think Itsekiri is so different from Yoruba culture, because they eat banga and starch, while Yoruba eat Okra and Eba? Or because Itseke women wear heavy coral beads while Yoruba women tie gele lol

Now all that being said, when comparing Yoruba and itsekiri, the mistake you are making is comparg Itsekiri to OYO which is the face of Yoruba culture, being the hegemonic force in most of Yorubaland for centuries. That is understandable. The relationship between Itsekiri and certain Yoruba groups are much more obvious that others. Compare Itsekiri and Owo Or Okitipupa for example it becomes much more visible.

Moreso, Itsekiris do not come from Ginuwa, unless you are suggesting that ginuwa is older than Itsekiri as a people.
Also what is the Yoruba world view pls? You seem to be suggesting that Yorubas as a people have a set world view.... Traditionally We have monarchies, they have a monarchy, infact the traditional titles of more than a few cities in Yorubaland are Olus, Mushin, Ilaro and Igbokoda immediately come to mind. Clan chiefs in Eastern Yorubaland are known as Olojas, same in Itsekiri as Olajas. Our traditional religion believe in Eboras, Imales, Ifa/divinition Ogun, Olokun, Ayelala (in Ilaje and Ikale)... Etc. SAME obtains in itsekiri

Those are the bone of a culture (LANGUAGE, Societal structure and Traditional RELIGION) , , every other thing you see are just meat.

fero007:


the problem with many of these theories is there is no real proof supporting them, they are based on logical guesses which maybe true or false, there is no proof that itsekiris came from yoruba, they may be diff people who lost their language to yoruba for some reason, if you know the south south you'll know its not uncommon for tribes to lose their culture for a foreign one

fero007:


im does pepo dat lyk claim right so ill like 2 learn further

but i just want 2 state that we sud not rely on google for info cuz google can to be misleading on these type of issues, and again nigerians(especially yorubas n igbos) need to change the mentality that the same language automatically means the same tribe or ethnic group or pepo

TAO11:
.


.

fero007:


oh, is dat what i wrote? i meant "im not one of those pepo dat lyk claiming right"

OlaoChi:
what is your business?

Face igboland that has ikwerre, ika, aniocha etc denying igbo

You don't have a life at all

TAO11:



Hello fero007,

I must tell you that I really admire your resolve to trust what you believe to be true. What I will in fact appreciate even more than that is your willingness to open-mindedly admit a fact (or at least a more likely position) even though it will contradict what you've held all along.

I must also salute scholes0 's effort for consistently putting forward his vastness and his view on this subject.

Now to address the issues, you made two important remarks in response to one of my comments on this issue, namely that:

1) "we sud not rely on google for info cuz google can to be misleading on these type of issues"


2) "same language (does not) automatically means the same tribe or ethnic group or pepo".


Regarding the first, I could swear your real intention was to say that we should not simply take information from the internet UNCRITICALLY. I believe you didn't mean that we shouldn't access the internet (through a search engine like 'google') for information. The internet is just an electronic database (just as our physical libraries) containing information of all sorts.

That information I shared on Itsekiri language being "a major branch of the Yoruboid group of languages" is a standard view among linguists. It is not some heretic or unpopular or debunked position at all. That was why I comfortably asked you (without any worry) to search for it yourself.


Regarding the second, I must tell you that historians and anthropologists consider "linguistic evidence" to be highly indispensable in tracing (the origins of a group or the link between two groups) of people. The one and only type of evidence which supersedes linguistics evidence in this regard is "archeological evidence". A third evidence down the hierarchy is "cultural/religious analysis".

While I agree with you that one type of evidence should not be taken blindly without regards to another, I at the same time have the responsibility to emphasize to you how indispensable linguistic analysis is in respect of this subject.


You indicated above that you're willing to have further conversation on the subject if there is any further contrary view to yours. Below is my careful analysis in relation to your request:


* I will start by examining some oral tradition of these people of the south, because oral tradition is the vast repository or corpus of every pre-literate people. But I will admit, fair and square, that I am aware that oral traditions could be skewed, exaggerated, and sometimes fabricated, hence the reason I will be subjecting whatever oral traditions I'm adducing from these people, to scientific scrutiny by augmenting them with widely attested written sources.

The oral traditions I will be adducing from the Itsekiri and the "Yoruba" sides is one that says the same thing (or about the same thing), hence very unlikely to have been a fabricated tradition by one of them to favor itself.


An oral tradition of very early migration(s) of a group of people from some region of North-East Africa down the south (precisely to the south of today's Nigeria) is found in many "Yoruba" traditions as well as in Itsekiri's traditions.

Chief Atigbiofor Atsuliaghan who is a high-priest of Umale-Okun (an Itsekiri deity), who also claimed to be a direct descendant of Òrúnmìlà stated that the Yorubas migrated from Egypt and settled in various parts of what is now called Nigeria, and that two important places among the places they settled are Ode-Itsekiri and Ile-Ife.

Similarly, Chief O.N Rewane noted that according to oral tradition, the Yorubas came from the south of Egypt but not directly to Ile-Ife. he added that they settled at Illushi, some at Asaba area, Ebu, Olukumi, Ukwunzu, and some settled at Ode-Itsekiri.

(_Refer to O.N. Rewane Royalty Magazine: A Pictorial Souvenir of the Burial and Coronation of Olu of Warri, Warri 1987_).


From, the Yoruba side, the Awujale of Ijebu land has maintained that the Ijebus are descended from ancient Nubia (a colony of ancient Egypt). he adduced the evidence of identical language, body-scarification, kingship ritual, kingship system, and religious discourse to substantiate his claim.
This claim by the Awajale can also be authenticated all over the most ancient "Yoruba" kingdoms.

(Refer to the _1984 Awujale's Coronation Manual_ where he also mentioned that the Itsekiris speak the most ancient Ijebu dialect).

Opiletool:


This is highly commendable. Well done.

I am still very much interested in that Egypt part of Yoruba story. I have read several pieces on it, plus the recent submitions from Reno Omokiri which have some interesting twists to the story. I seriously hope for a factual closure someday.

TAO11:
.


Thank you Opiletool for your time, and I commend your curiosity even more.


On the Yoruba-Egypt link, the standard submission of modern historians and anthropologists is what I summarized above. They all agree on a North-East Africa [precisely ancient Egypt and ancient Nubia (a colony of ancient Egypt)] origin for the people of Southern Nigeria (the Itshekiris and the "Yorubas" to be precise).

*They examined the oral traditions of these people (which admits they are from that North-East region of Africa) and corroborated them with archeological evidences, written documentation from other parts of the world (e.g. Egypt itself).

For example, I myself once had a similar discussion with a friend from Ethiopia (North-East Africa) in which I told him about Oduduwa. Guess what! He was shocked at hearing the name, and he himself shocked me when he informed me that the word "Oduduwa" (same spelling, same pronunciation) is a word in his own language (Oromo language), meaning "One who speaks" probably on behalf of others.

We talked further, and I mentioned "Oromiyan". Again, there was similar reaction from both of us, because he told me that "Oromiyan" (which they spell using English letters as: Oromiya or Oromia) is the name of the district or region of Ethiopia he hailed from. He further told me that Oromo people are not restricted to Ethiopia, he said they are found in other parts of East and North-East Africa.


*They examined the culture and religion of these people (the ancient "Yoruba" people and the ancient Egyptians) and found striking resemblance (which further bolsters other available evidence such as the fact that the ancient Egyptians and Nubians were Negros, etc.). For instance, many pre-dynastic Egyptian deities are still been worshipped in parts of "Yoruba" land up till today. they also are present among the Itsekiris till today.

(A) Some of the deities include: "Adumu" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Adumu" or "Adamu" ); "Hepi" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Ipi" ); "Ausar" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Ausa" ); "Horise" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Oritse" or "Orisa" ), and "S'mi" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Smi" or "Simi" ); "Nam" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Inama" ); etc.

[The Itsekiris had great religious influence on its immediate neighbors (including the Binis) by initiating them into many of these gods and belief systems. From the "Umale-Okun" worship by the Edo, to the "Agban" ancestral worship by the Urhobos recently in 1949, as well as the "Ipi" system by the Urhobos even more recently in 2005.].


(B) Bronze/Brass casting (using a method known today as the "lost wax process" is another unique and distinctive aspect of the culture (art) of the Yorubas (the Ifes precisely) that is strikingly similar to that of the ancient Egyptians.

[Although some may contend that the Binis also casted metal, it is important to remind them that the Binis' oral tradition admits that casting was taught to them by Ile-Ife. The Binis tradition mentioned that Igue-Igha (or Igueghae) was sent from Uhe (Ife) (at the beseech of Oba Oguola to his spiritual overlord, the Ooni) to civilize them into the art and science of metal casting. The purpose was to enable the Binis start producing themselves, instead of being entirely dependent on importation from Ife. Igue-Igha is still venerated in Bini up till today at his shrine at the house of Chief Ine].


[Also, others may contend that the excavations of artifacts in SouthEast Nigeria shows that metal casting was not unique and distinctive to the "Yorubas". It is important to remind such people that the Igbos, according to their own admittance, are not autochthonous to their present area, their migration (most likely from outside Africa) came later after their present area have been visited by earlier migrants (the "Yoruba" and Itsekiri migrants from Egypt).
In fact some evidences which proves this to be the case include: (1) The presence of places called "Ife" in the South East Nigeria (which appears to corroborate Ile-Ife's tradition that there have been many Ife's before Ile-Ife such as Ife-Oodaye, Ife-Oyeelagbo, Otu-Ife, among others); (2) The claim found in some Igbo people's traditions that Oduduwa left to Ile-Ife from Nri; (3) The fact that some of the Igb-Ukwu artifacts (glass and carnelian beads specifically) have been found to be strikingly identical to those of Old Cairo (Egypt); (4) and lastly, the dating of the Ugbo-Ukwu artifacts shows a earlier date as compared to those excavated at Ile-Ife. All these shows that the Bronze and other artifacts from the South East were remnants of a civilization (The "Yorubas' " ) that had earlier visited the area centuries before the Igbo's arrival. The Iwo Eleru burial artifact (South West Nigeria) with a radiocarbon date of about 12,000 B.C. also further bolsters the evidence of the "Yorubas' " earlier presence in Southern Nigeria].


(C) Dance is another aspect of the unique and distinctive cultural similarity between the "Yoruba" and the Egyptian cultures. Those who have watched the Zar ritual dance conducted by special women among Fellahin in Egypt saw the replica of Yoruba dance during religious activities. A place called "Owodaiye" in today's Ethiopia (of which Egypt was at some point in history a colony) also further strengthens the link.


[Many experts have argued that the different batches of migration from Egypt to the Atlantic coast which started as early as the Hyksos' invasion of Egypt (2,000 B.C. to 1,500 B.C.) signifies different home-coming migration of a group of people who knew that their ancestors had migrated northwards from this "Nigeria" area. The evidence adduced by these scholars being that archaeological finds shows that the "Nigeria" region have been continuously occupied from around 40,000 B.C. to 65,000 B.C. by the Nok culture who have been argued to be of course the original inhabitants of southern Nigeria some of which first migrated northwards and then later southwards in the different waves of migration of the "Yorubas"].

(D) Some scholars have considered the direction of burial of the ancient Egyptians as evidence of Nigeria as the original home. When the ancient Egyptian died their corpses are buried with their faces facing South West (the direction of West Africa --- home of the "Yorubas" ).

(E) It was only recently I found out from a friend doing their PhD in Biostatistics in a U.S. University that the sickle cell disorder is generally known in medical discourse to be a trait peculiar to West Africans. However, a recent analysis of the genes of a minority Negro people in Egypt shows the presence of the trait.

(F) Another evidence of link is the landmark figure known as Shango, the Alaafin (arguably Olu-Afin) of Oyo whose mom is Tapa. Shango actually not only ruled a West African empire, he also ruled in the North of Africa.
(I almost couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw this information been confirmed in sources outside Africa. What led to my perplexity when I first saw this was the very later date that has usually been speculated for most of these figures: Shango, Oromiyan, Oduduwa, etc. for instance the staff of Oromiyan is shown by radiocarbon dating to be centuries earlier than the date generally speculated to mark the start of the Oduduwa dynasty. The corrections and revisions are just being made only recently).

Shango according to this source was well known beyond Africa. Stories were told about Oba Koso (an ethnonym of Shango). Pedral quoted Morie's work in the Coptic text - "Obba Kousso" as he was known, noting that he "was King Shango and a king of Kush who ruled north and west of Africa but was born in Ife". Morie had no idea where Ife was.


(G) Another evidence is a Yoruba Osun serpentine staff crowned by a bird, and carried by initiates of Obàtálá which bears striking resemblance to Caduceus, the traditional symbol of the Greek god Hermes. But the Greek pantheon and theology itself was influenced by no other than the Egyptian's.


(H) I will close out by adducing linguistic evidence. There are very many word-word correlation between Egyptian and Yoruba languages which not only sound similarly but also having similar/identical meanings. The similarity/identicality are too striking and too numerous to be simply explained away by coincidence.


The following are few examples:

"Ere" an ancient Egyptian word for "Python/Serpent" is the same as "Ere" an ancient Yoruba word for "Python/Serpent".

"Horise" an ancient Egyptian word for "a great god" is the same as "Orise" an ancient Yoruba word for "a great god".

"Sen" an ancient Egyptian word for "a group of worshippers" is the same as "Sen" an ancient Yoruba word (especially Ijebu word) for "to worship".

"Ta" an ancient Egyptian word for "sell" is the same as "Ta" an ancient Yoruba word for "sell".

"Sueg" an ancient Egyptian word for "a fool" is the same as "Suegbe" an ancient Yoruba word for "a fool".

"Enru" an ancient Egyptian word for "fear" is the same as "Eru" an ancient Yoruba word for "fear"

"Kun" an ancient Egyptian word for "a brave man" is the same as "Ekun" a Yoruba title for "a brave man".

"Osiris" an ancient Egyptian word "water god" is the same as "Oshiri" a Yoruba word for a "water god".

"Oni" an Egyptian title of "Osiris" is the same as "Ooni" the Yoruba royal title of "Ile-Ife kings".

"Omi" an ancient Egyptian word for "water" is the same as "Omi" ancient Yoruba word for "water".

"Dudu" refers in ancient Egypt to the "Black" image of Osiris and is the same as "Dudu" the Yoruba word for "Black".

"Ash" an ancient Egyptian for "invocation" is the same as "Ashe" an ancient Yoruba word for "invocation"

"Budo" an ancient Egyptian word for "dwelling place" is the same as "Ibudo" an ancient Yoruba word for "dwelling place"

"Kot" an ancient Egyptian word for "build" is the same as "Ko" an Yoruba word for "build"

"Horuw" a middle Egyptian word for "head" is the same as "Oruwo" an ancient Yoruba word (especially Ijebu word) for "head".

"Kurubu" an ancient Egyptian word for "round" is the same as "Kurubu" an ancient Yoruba word for "round".

"Khu" an ancient Egyptian word for "to kill" is the same as "Ku" an ancient Yoruba word for "die".

"Ak" an ancient Egyptian word for "male" is the same as "Ako" an ancient Yoruba word for "male".

"Ro" an ancient Egyptian word for "talk" is the same as "Ro" an ancient Yoruba word for "talk".

"Edjo" an ancient Egyptian word for "cobra" is the same as "Ejo" an ancient Yoruba word for "snake".

"Anubis" an ancient Egyptian word for "an evil deity" is the same as "Onubi" an ancient Yoruba word for "a evil person".

"Kan" an ancient Egyptian word for "one" is the same as "Okan" a Yoruba word for "one".

"Shekiri" an ancient Egyptian word for "a water god" is the same as "Shekiri" a Yoruba for word for "a water god".

[It appears the name "Itsekiri" comes from this Egyptian god "Shekiri" especially considering the migration acknowledged by the Itsekiris' oral tradition which I made reference to in my earlier reply]



There are even more evidence, but the foregoing ones are sufficient (I believe) to establish firmly that there is an Egypt-Itsekiri-"Yoruba" link; or more specifically that the "Yorubas" and Itsekiris migrated from ancient Egypt; or even more specifically that the migrations southwards from ancient Egypt relates to different home-comings by a group of people whose original abode was the "Nigeria" region.


Thank you for your time ...

fero007:


oboy! this is good, even in warri I didnt know all dis, well i dont know how true this but there's definitely many strong points, so with this I guess its really likely that itsekiris are probably from yoruba after all, u do well

but, im nt sayin ure wrong, look at it dis way, the fact that the yorubas came from egypt but we cant say the yorubas are egyptians, they came from there but are seperate culture now, same thing, as close as they may ve been once, the current itsekiri culture is far diff from yoruba(even d ilaje of ondo), so i feel if we are going to see itsekiri n yoruba d same then its jus lyk seeing bini/esan/etsako as the same

TAO11:
.


Thank you Opiletool for your time, and I commend your curiosity even more.


On the Yoruba-Egypt link, the standard submission of modern historians and anthropologists is what I summarized above. They all agree on a North-East Africa [precisely ancient Egypt and ancient Nubia (a colony of ancient Egypt)] origin for the people of Southern Nigeria (the Itshekiris and the "Yorubas" to be precise).

*They examined the oral traditions of these people (which admits they are from that North-East region of Africa) and corroborated them with archeological evidences, written documentation from other parts of the world (e.g. Egypt itself).

For example, I myself once had a similar discussion with a friend from Ethiopia (North-East Africa) in which I told him about Oduduwa. Guess what! He was shocked at hearing the name, and he himself shocked me when he informed me that the word "Oduduwa" (same spelling, same pronunciation) is a word in his own language (Oromo language), meaning "One who speaks" probably on behalf of others.

We talked further, and I mentioned "Oromiyan". Again, there was similar reaction from both of us, because he told me that "Oromiyan" (which they spell using English letters as: Oromiya or Oromia) is the name of the district or region of Ethiopia he hailed from. He further told me that Oromo people are not restricted to Ethiopia, he said they are found in other parts of East and North-East Africa.


*They examined the culture and religion of these people (the ancient "Yoruba" people and the ancient Egyptians) and found striking resemblance (which further bolsters other available evidence such as the fact that the ancient Egyptians and Nubians were Negros, etc.). For instance, many pre-dynastic Egyptian deities are still been worshipped in parts of "Yoruba" land up till today. they also are present among the Itsekiris till today.

(A) Some of the deities include: "Adumu" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Adumu" or "Adamu" ); "Hepi" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Ipi" ); "Ausar" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Ausa" ); "Horise" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Oritse" or "Orisa" ), and "S'mi" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Smi" or "Simi" ); "Nam" (known among and the Itsekiris and "Yorubas" as "Inama" ); etc.

[The Itsekiris had great religious influence on its immediate neighbors (including the Binis) by initiating them into many of these gods and belief systems. From the "Umale-Okun" worship by the Edo, to the "Agban" ancestral worship by the Urhobos recently in 1949, as well as the "Ipi" system by the Urhobos even more recently in 2005.].


(B) Bronze/Brass casting (using a method known today as the "lost wax process" is another unique and distinctive aspect of the culture (art) of the Yorubas (the Ifes precisely) that is strikingly similar to that of the ancient Egyptians.

[Although some may contend that the Binis also casted metal, it is important to remind them that the Binis' oral tradition admits that casting was taught to them by Ile-Ife. The Binis tradition mentioned that Igue-Igha (or Igueghae) was sent from Uhe (Ife) (at the beseech of Oba Oguola to his spiritual overlord, the Ooni) to civilize them into the art and science of metal casting. The purpose was to enable the Binis start producing themselves, instead of being entirely dependent on importation from Ife. Igue-Igha is still venerated in Bini up till today at his shrine at the house of Chief Ine].


[Also, others may contend that the excavations of artifacts in SouthEast Nigeria shows that metal casting was not unique and distinctive to the "Yorubas". It is important to remind such people that the Igbos, according to their own admittance, are not autochthonous to their present area, their migration (most likely from outside Africa) came later after their present area have been visited by earlier migrants (the "Yoruba" and Itsekiri migrants from Egypt).
In fact some evidences which proves this to be the case include: (1) The presence of places called "Ife" in the South East Nigeria (which appears to corroborate Ile-Ife's tradition that there have been many Ife's before Ile-Ife such as Ife-Oodaye, Ife-Oyeelagbo, Otu-Ife, among others); (2) The claim found in some Igbo people's traditions that Oduduwa left to Ile-Ife from Nri; (3) The fact that some of the Igb-Ukwu artifacts (glass and carnelian beads specifically) have been found to be strikingly identical to those of Old Cairo (Egypt); (4) and lastly, the dating of the Ugbo-Ukwu artifacts shows a earlier date as compared to those excavated at Ile-Ife. All these shows that the Bronze and other artifacts from the South East were remnants of a civilization (The "Yorubas' " ) that had earlier visited the area centuries before the Igbo's arrival. The Iwo Eleru burial artifact (South West Nigeria) with a radiocarbon date of about 12,000 B.C. also further bolsters the evidence of the "Yorubas' " earlier presence in Southern Nigeria].


(C) Dance is another aspect of the unique and distinctive cultural similarity between the "Yoruba" and the Egyptian cultures. Those who have watched the Zar ritual dance conducted by special women among Fellahin in Egypt saw the replica of Yoruba dance during religious activities. A place called "Owodaiye" in today's Ethiopia (of which Egypt was at some point in history a colony) also further strengthens the link.


[Many experts have argued that the different batches of migration from Egypt to the Atlantic coast which started as early as the Hyksos' invasion of Egypt (2,000 B.C. to 1,500 B.C.) signifies different home-coming migration of a group of people who knew that their ancestors had migrated northwards from this "Nigeria" area. The evidence adduced by these scholars being that archaeological finds shows that the "Nigeria" region have been continuously occupied from around 40,000 B.C. to 65,000 B.C. by the Nok culture who have been argued to be of course the original inhabitants of southern Nigeria some of which first migrated northwards and then later southwards in the different waves of migration of the "Yorubas"].

(D) Some scholars have considered the direction of burial of the ancient Egyptians as evidence of Nigeria as the original home. When the ancient Egyptian died their corpses are buried with their faces facing South West (the direction of West Africa --- home of the "Yorubas" ).

(E) It was only recently I found out from a friend doing their PhD in Biostatistics in a U.S. University that the sickle cell disorder is generally known in medical discourse to be a trait peculiar to West Africans. However, a recent analysis of the genes of a minority Negro people in Egypt shows the presence of the trait.

(F) Another evidence of link is the landmark figure known as Shango, the Alaafin (arguably Olu-Afin) of Oyo whose mom is Tapa. Shango actually not only ruled a West African empire, he also ruled in the North of Africa.
(I almost couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw this information been confirmed in sources outside Africa. What led to my perplexity when I first saw this was the very later date that has usually been speculated for most of these figures: Shango, Oromiyan, Oduduwa, etc. for instance the staff of Oromiyan is shown by radiocarbon dating to be centuries earlier than the date generally speculated to mark the start of the Oduduwa dynasty. The corrections and revisions are just being made only recently).

Shango according to this source was well known beyond Africa. Stories were told about Oba Koso (an ethnonym of Shango). Pedral quoted Morie's work in the Coptic text - "Obba Kousso" as he was known, noting that he "was King Shango and a king of Kush who ruled north and west of Africa but was born in Ife". Morie had no idea where Ife was.


(G) Another evidence is a Yoruba Osun serpentine staff crowned by a bird, and carried by initiates of Obàtálá which bears striking resemblance to Caduceus, the traditional symbol of the Greek god Hermes. But the Greek pantheon and theology itself was influenced by no other than the Egyptian's.


(H) I will close out by adducing linguistic evidence. There are very many word-word correlation between Egyptian and Yoruba languages which not only sound similarly but also having similar/identical meanings. The similarity/identicality are too striking and too numerous to be simply explained away by coincidence.


The following are few examples:

"Ere" an ancient Egyptian word for "Python/Serpent" is the same as "Ere" an ancient Yoruba word for "Python/Serpent".

"Horise" an ancient Egyptian word for "a great god" is the same as "Orise" an ancient Yoruba word for "a great god".

"Sen" an ancient Egyptian word for "a group of worshippers" is the same as "Sen" an ancient Yoruba word (especially Ijebu word) for "to worship".

"Ta" an ancient Egyptian word for "sell" is the same as "Ta" an ancient Yoruba word for "sell".

"Sueg" an ancient Egyptian word for "a fool" is the same as "Suegbe" an ancient Yoruba word for "a fool".

"Enru" an ancient Egyptian word for "fear" is the same as "Eru" an ancient Yoruba word for "fear"

"Kun" an ancient Egyptian word for "a brave man" is the same as "Ekun" a Yoruba title for "a brave man".

"Osiris" an ancient Egyptian word "water god" is the same as "Oshiri" a Yoruba word for a "water god".

"Oni" an Egyptian title of "Osiris" is the same as "Ooni" the Yoruba royal title of "Ile-Ife kings".

"Omi" an ancient Egyptian word for "water" is the same as "Omi" ancient Yoruba word for "water".

"Dudu" refers in ancient Egypt to the "Black" image of Osiris and is the same as "Dudu" the Yoruba word for "Black".

"Ash" an ancient Egyptian for "invocation" is the same as "Ashe" an ancient Yoruba word for "invocation"

"Budo" an ancient Egyptian word for "dwelling place" is the same as "Ibudo" an ancient Yoruba word for "dwelling place"

"Kot" an ancient Egyptian word for "build" is the same as "Ko" an Yoruba word for "build"

"Horuw" a middle Egyptian word for "head" is the same as "Oruwo" an ancient Yoruba word (especially Ijebu word) for "head".

"Kurubu" an ancient Egyptian word for "round" is the same as "Kurubu" an ancient Yoruba word for "round".

"Khu" an ancient Egyptian word for "to kill" is the same as "Ku" an ancient Yoruba word for "die".

"Ak" an ancient Egyptian word for "male" is the same as "Ako" an ancient Yoruba word for "male".

"Ro" an ancient Egyptian word for "talk" is the same as "Ro" an ancient Yoruba word for "talk".

"Edjo" an ancient Egyptian word for "cobra" is the same as "Ejo" an ancient Yoruba word for "snake".

"Anubis" an ancient Egyptian word for "an evil deity" is the same as "Onubi" an ancient Yoruba word for "a evil person".

"Kan" an ancient Egyptian word for "one" is the same as "Okan" a Yoruba word for "one".

"Shekiri" an ancient Egyptian word for "a water god" is the same as "Shekiri" a Yoruba for word for "a water god".

[It appears the name "Itsekiri" comes from this Egyptian god "Shekiri" especially considering the migration acknowledged by the Itsekiris' oral tradition which I made reference to in my earlier reply]



There are even more evidence, but the foregoing ones are sufficient (I believe) to establish firmly that there is an Egypt-Itsekiri-"Yoruba" link; or more specifically that the "Yorubas" and Itsekiris migrated from ancient Egypt; or even more specifically that the migrations southwards from ancient Egypt relates to different home-comings by a group of people whose original abode was the "Nigeria" region.


Thank you for your time ...

fero007:


oboy! this is good, even in warri I didnt know all dis, well i dont know how true this but there's definitely many strong points, so with this I guess its really likely that itsekiris are probably from yoruba after all, u do well

but, im nt sayin ure wrong, look at it dis way, the fact that the yorubas came from egypt but we cant say the yorubas are egyptians, they came from there but are seperate culture now, same thing, as close as they may ve been once, the current itsekiri culture is far diff from yoruba(even d ilaje of ondo), so i feel if we are going to see itsekiri n yoruba d same then its jus lyk seeing bini/esan/etsako as the same

IkpuMmadu:


Is he in afenifere?

rhektor:


So whoever is not in Afenifere is not Yorùbá? What is wrong with this dude sef. You saw his picture dressed as one of them yet you still want to live in denial, this alone showed that you lied about meeting people who reject the name you called them

Tushkito:


Just look at this hypocrite, u opened a thread about how igbos are lost yet you come here and attack the op of writing about yorubas?

IkpuMmadu:


Stop defending nonsense

He hasn't said he is a Yoruba , he hasn't identified with a Yoruba culture and he is not in afenifere


So wetin come make him a Yoruba elder

rhektor:

Stop being condescending Ogbeni, if you have no job go get one
I guess the picture on thta his dress is the picture of sultan of Sokoto or probably its the head of Aguleri.

rhektor:

Stop being condescending Ogbeni, if you have no job go get one
I guess the picture on thta his dress is the picture of sultan of Sokoto or probably its the head of Aguleri.

IkpuMmadu:


NA LIE



HAVE YHEARD OF THE SAYING THAT THE HOOD DOESN'T MAKRE A MONK...SO BUHARI WEARING IGBO CLOTHES MAKES HIM AN IGBO MAN,.... OR DINO WEARING AN AGBADA ( HAUSA CLOTH) WITH YORUBA DESIGN MAKES HIM A YORUBA...BROS TRY GET SENSE NAAAAA


FIND A SUPERIOR ARGUEMENT...THIS IS TOO WATERY

IkpuMmadu:


NA LIE



HAVE YHEARD OF THE SAYING THAT THE HOOD DOESN'T MAKRE A MONK...SO BUHARI WEARING IGBO CLOTHES MAKES HIM AN IGBO MAN,.... OR DINO WEARING AN AGBADA ( HAUSA CLOTH) WITH YORUBA DESIGN MAKES HIM A YORUBA...BROS TRY GET SENSE NAAAAA


FIND A SUPERIOR ARGUEMENT...THIS IS TOO WATERY

IkpuMmadu:
WHI OKUN DONT LIKE THE YORUBA NAME


1. Yoruba was cuin from the word “Yarriba” used by the early Huasa slave merchants to identify their slaves from the oyo dahomey axis. Yoruba was identity of Slaves.
2. The word Yoruba have been ignorantly use in and out of Nigeria to tag a people that do not inherit the ancestral slave statues, especially in the south west. Yorubas were major product of labour, captured and bought by Europeans and shipped to the Americas during translatlantic slave trade 16th and 18th century. Most were shipped to haiti, cuba etc
3. The tag “Yoruba” can be liken to the tag “Nigga” used on African Americans.
4. Yoruba is a negative derogative name that should be ambolish because free men dont maintain the identity of a slave.

To call somebody Yoruba is to insult that person, you either call him an Egba Man, an Oyo Man, an Awori or whatever clan he is from, don't call him Yoruba because it is like calling him "SLAVE" do they really answer when you call them that name? Maybe that man that answers you don't know the root meaning of that word Yarriba and how the lingua came about.
South west of Nigeria:They are either Egba, Awori, Ijebu, Oyo, Ife etc men and women
It is like calling all Black men in America Niggas, why do you call them that name because you can not identify where they are from in Africa. Because slave masters from the north couldn't identify where each clave was from, they called them YARRIBA, like, how many YARRIBA (slaves) do you have and the answer would be 10 or 20.

For political simplicity then, we were called Bendel, was Bendel a tradition, culture or heritage? Was it a language? But all over, people from that region were called Bendelites. that is exactly what Yoruba means, Slaves according to the Hausa-Fulani identity for them, it does not mean where they were from, even if they were Ibo or Ijaw, they were Yarriba (slaves.) This name was then adopted for political reason because there was now millions of slaves that returned from slavery, that had nowhere to go but to stay in Oyo where they were put in slave camps before taken across the Atlantic. Same thing happened in Liberia and Free Town.

For lack of self-knowledge, blacks in America still call themselves NIggas, is Nigga a pleasant word? But it was used to identify black slaves from Africa. Yoruba was a term used to identify slaves bound for the Americas by the Hausa man, he called them Yarriba. the question is, how did the name become famous with the people around the western part of today Niger-Area?https://ihuanedo.ning.com/m/group/discussion?id=2971192%3ATopic%3A145857