abbey621:


I beg to differ, Nigerians are a lot smarter than the average American but due to extreme poverty and kissing *** we won't heavily criticize anyone capable of getting us from rags to riches. This has nothing to do with IQ my friend otherwise you would be admitting that you are one of those low IQ individuals . Like I said earlier, you can' take down someone that is not bound by electoral mandate, this is the reason people like the Soros exists here in the U.S, godfatherism and lobbying are forever part of politics, that is why they call politicians 'dirty'.

The kind of smartness Nigerians have is definitely not the type that creates advanced societies. The smartness that develops societies is the REAL smartness. Every other smartness is useless if it can't take citizens out of poverty, improve education, healthcare and make advances in technology. Nigerians lack the education and IQ to make these key vital progress.

Please don't compare Nigeria's godfatherism with that of the U.S. They just don't work the same way. Don't say Tinubu and Soros are the same. Don't go there!

Why mentioning Jagaban in your campaign ? To garner vote or what ? She is one of those candidates that have votes like bet 9ja odds when counting results Why mentioning Jagaban in your campaign ? To garner vote or what ? She is one of those candidates that have votes like bet 9ja odds when counting results Why mentioning Jagaban in your campaign ? To garner vote or what ? She is one of those candidates that have votes like bet 9ja odds when counting results

Delivar:

The kind of smartness Nigerians have is definitely not the type that creates advanced societies. The smartness that develops societies is the REAL smartness. Every other smartness is useless if it can't take citizens out of poverty, improve education, healthcare and make advances in technology. Nigerians lack the education and IQ to make these key vital progress.

Please don't compare Nigeria's godfatherism with that of the U.S. They just don't work the same way. Don't say Tinubu and Soros are the same. Don't go there!

You love comparing apples with oranges. Nigeria a country less than 60 years old is being compared with one of over 240 years. You can try researching the politics of the U.S in the 1840s and see just how advanced they were. Another classic example would be the Great depression of the 1940s, where the average American could not eat more than one meal per day. Where the IQ's of the people back then faulty? You have a lot to learn, the awesomeness of those advanced societies took a lot of learning and sacrifices along the way, Soros is exactly like Tinubu, anybody willing to financially back a political candidate is sure to receive special favors from those candidates when elected. This is how lobbying works, this is why the U.S. cannot pass any meaningful gun control law. When it comes to history and politics, you better educate yourself more and rely less on emotional attachment!

abbey621:


You love comparing apples with oranges. Nigeria a country less than 60 years old is being compared with one of over 240 years. You can try researching the politics of the U.S in the 1840s and see just how advanced they were. Another classic example would be the Great depression of the 1940s, where the average American could not eat more than one meal per day. Where the IQ's of the people back then faulty? You have a lot to learn, the awesomeness of those advanced societies took a lot of learning and sacrifices along the way, Soros is exactly like Tinubu, anybody willing to financially back a political candidate is sure to receive special favors from those candidates when elected. This is how lobbying works, this is why the U.S. cannot pass any meaningful gun control law. When it comes to history and politics, you better educate yourself more and rely less on emotional attachment!

People will always say it took America 240 years to get there bla, bla, bla. What about China that was a peasant country in 1980 then developed so fast within 40 years? What would you say about that? I understand it takes time to develop but how do you explain the fact Nigeria still doesn't have stable power supply after 60 years? Does it take 60 years to have stable power? We should actually be witnessing bits and bits of progress but since 1960 till this point there is actually nothing that indicates the country is advancing. The problem isn't actually the years but how much you are advancing within those years.

Tinubu is a criminal and not just a godfather. Does Soros massively rig elections? Did he massively steal public funds? If your answer is NO then Soros and Tinubu are not same.

Delivar:

People will always say it took America 240 years to get there bla, bla, bla. What about China that was a peasant country in 1980 then developed so fast within 40 years? What would you say about that? I understand it takes time to develop but how do you explain the fact Nigeria still doesn't have stable power supply after 60 years? Does it take 60 years to have stable power? We should actually be witnessing bits and bits of progress but since 1960 till this point there is actually nothing that indicates the country is advancing. The problem isn't actually the years but how much you are advancing within those years.

Tinubu is a criminal and not just a godfather. Does Soros massively rig elections? Did he massively steal public funds? If your answer is NO then Soros and Tinubu are not same.

Your example of China shows that you don't know much about the topic at hand. The Chinese communist party was hell in it's first 40 years, China was a laughing stock all the way till the late 90s and before that, the country basically enslaved its people for over 2000 years with imperial rule, abeg stop the baseless comparison. Moving on, who brought the GSM you use to Nigeria? The internet providers, the reform in the banking sector to name a few. To say we have not witnessed any meaningful development since 1960s is a FALLACY! Nigeria is nowhere near where it should be but it is also not the worst country in the world, just 15 years ago, you wouldn't have Nairaland or any means of reaching your loved ones far away in a reasonable amount of time or medium. Finally, you speak of Tinubu being a criminal yet you cannot challenge him in court because you claim the justice system is messed up, I think there are other ways to put pressure on someone besides the justice system. Why don't you gather up your facts and evidence, put it up in a blog and spread it out throughout 9ja? Be sure to put your real name and your address so that people can give credit where it is due. This is what true heroics/patriotism is all about and it is the main reason why those advanced countries are advancing, not useless rants with no action!

Delivar:

In a lawless nation like Nigeria suing him is just a waste of time. That would be the wrong approach. To take down the likes of Tinubu the masses needs to be civilised, enlightened and educated to boost and modernize their IQ. That's why I wasn't joking when I earlier said low IQ and lack of education is killing the country. In a country with bright minds these rogue politicians would have been powerless. Education and mindset modernization is actually the key to transform Nigeria and many people don't realise it.

Bro, I understand your submission.... buh there's no hope for now..... If Lagos that is 15% educated is still under such, what about other states?? Just imagine it bro.... Nigeria dey trouble...

nku5:


I thought she was a hero in 2015 when she was fighting Jonathan

lol.... you expect a Yoruba Muslim to love ezekwesili

abbey621:


Your example of China shows that you don't know much about the topic at hand. The Chinese communist party was hell in it's first 40 years, China was a laughing stock all the way till the late 90s and before that, the country basically enslaved its people for over 2000 years with imperial rule, abeg stop the baseless comparison. Moving on, who brought the GSM you use to Nigeria? The internet providers, the reform in the banking sector to name a few. To say we have not witnessed any meaningful development since 1960s is a FALLACY! Nigeria is nowhere near where it should be but it is also not the worst country in the world, just 15 years ago, you wouldn't have Nairaland or any means of reaching your loved ones far away in a reasonable amount of time or medium. Finally, you speak of Tinubu being a criminal yet you cannot challenge him in court because you claim the justice system is messed up, I think there are other ways to put pressure on someone besides the justice system. Why don't you gather up your facts and evidence, put it up in a blog and spread it out throughout 9ja? Be sure to put your real name and your address so that people can give credit where it is due. This is what true heroics/patriotism is all about and it is the main reason why those advanced countries are advancing, not useless rants with no action!

You are the one who doesn't know much about the topic. The history of the communist party you wrote there isn't even necessary. It was off the main point of discussion.

You earlier said it took the U.S 240 years to reach the level they are at the moment, and I am saying if China can make rapid progress within 40 years why can't Nigeria also make rapid progress within 60 years? Must it take 240 years to develop?

What makes you think the introduction of GSM counts as real development? To be specific, I am referring to human development in terms of quality of life. Development is measured in terms of economy, education and health care and and not simply GSM usage. The progress of Nigeria in these key area has been poor, therefore we haven't made any meaningful progress at all.

Are you asking me to put up my facts and evidence against Tinubu on a blog? Will it be the first time someone is calling him out? You think it changes anything?

Jokerman:


Bro, I understand your submission.... buh there's no hope for now..... If Lagos that is 15% educated is still under such, what about other states?? Just imagine it bro.... Nigeria dey trouble...

Yes of course. I agree there is no hope for now. 15% educated population in Lagos is very small to have any significant impact to overcome rouge politicians and make any positive advancements. But when the percentage is like 70% educated you will definitely see huge difference and cherish the value of education.

People think the problem of Nigeria is simply bad and corrupt leaders. But this is not the real reason. The real reason is that the bulk of the population are uneducated in the sense that the kind of orientation or mindset they have is not the type that creates modern societies. Even many university degree holders still don't possess this kind of orientation.

Delivar:

Yes of course. I agree there is no hope for now. 15% educated population in Lagos is very small to have any significant impact to overcome rouge politicians and make any positive advancements. But when the percentage is like 70% educated you will definitely see huge difference and cherish the value of education.

People think the problem of Nigeria is simply bad and corrupt leaders. But this is not the real reason. The real reason is that the bulk of the population are uneducated in the sense that the kind of orientation or mindset they have is not the type that creates modern societies. Even many university degree holders still don't possess this kind of orientation.

Of cos you are right... and that's what this politicians are leveraging....

Delivar:

You are the one who doesn't know much about the topic. The history of the communist party you wrote there isn't even necessary. It was off the main point of discussion.

You earlier said it took the U.S 240 years to reach the level they are at the moment, and I am saying if China can make rapid progress within 40 years why can't Nigeria also make rapid progress within 60 years? Must it take 240 years to develop?

What makes you think the introduction of GSM counts as real development? To be specific, I am referring to human development in terms of quality of life. Development is measured in terms of economy, education and health care and and not simply GSM usage. The progress of Nigeria in these key area has been poor, therefore we haven't made any meaningful progress at all.

Are you asking me to put up my facts and evidence against Tinubu on a blog? Will it be the first time someone is calling him out? You think it changes anything?

With all due respect, what you just typed is jargon! Development comes in various forms and one of it is infrastructural and technological. If you don't see telecommunication as a vital part of economical pogress then there is no point arguing with you. You want to talk about history but you are being selective, how can you discount a country's foundation and only focus on its revolution? Nigeria gained independence in 1960, China was never colonized. This means China had years upon years to build up their country, over 2000 years to be exact. Comparing Nigeria with China is comparing apples with oranges, different class, different components. Compare Nigeria with another country that was colonized and let's see how many countries are actually better off then Nigeria, you'll be surprised to find less than 10%. Furthermore, yes I'm asking you to put up facts, you can't keep making statements of criminality against someone without facts to back it up. Show me the way and method Tinubu used to murder people. Don't forget to include the names of the people also, transparency is the key here!

Madam Ezekwesili must be a joker, Tinubu has influence today because he does what was expected of him when he was the Governor of Lagos state, Ezekwesili is good at her advocacy job, but definitely not the presidential position.

abbey621:


With all due respect, what you just typed is jargon! Development comes in various forms and one of it is infrastructural and technological. If you don't see telecommunication as a vital part of economical pogress then there is no point arguing with you. You want to talk about history but you are being selective, how can you discount a country's foundation and only focus on its revolution? Nigeria gained independence in 1960, China was never colonized. This means China had years upon years to build up their country, over 2000 years to be exact. Comparing Nigeria with China is comparing apples with oranges, different class, different components. Compare Nigeria with another country that was colonized and let's see how many countries are actually better off then Nigeria, you'll be surprised to find less than 10%. Furthermore, yes I'm asking you to put up facts, you can't keep making statements of criminality against someone without facts to back it up. Show me the way and method Tinubu used to murder people. Don't forget to include the names of the people also, transparency is the key here!

You earlier mentioned Nigeria is progressing SIGNIFICANTLY because of GSM coverage and my stance is that it is not a sufficient yardstick to use in measuring real progress. I never said GSM coverage is not a vital part of economic progress. I only said having GSM coverage doesn't count as one of the major metrics to guage the advancement of a nation. Talk about real progress and not GSM.

On the issue of China again, you are actually the one who started the comparison by saying it took America 240 years to develop. Like I said before, the age of a nation is irrelevant when talking about rate of development. You started lecturing history and that is off point. We are talking about the RATE OF DEVELOPMENT over a specific time frame and not about history of a nation. So stay on point. We are actually now comparing China's last 40 years vs Nigeria's last 40 years. Now my question is, if China can move rapidly over 40 years why can't Nigeria move rapidly over the same 40 years? It doesn't matter whether Nigeria is younger than China because a nation can still get it right from day one of existence. Why did it take the U.S the so-called 240 years to rise and then took China 6000 years to rise? The Age of a nation is irrelevant here. Nigeria being 60 years is not an excuse because another nation can actually develop within 30 years. The most important thing is JUST GET IT RIGHT!! Your history of China is just off point.

As for the Tinubu matter, you don't even need to be murderer to be a criminal. Rigging and stealing public funds also makes you a criminal. So no need waiting for the evidence of Tinubu being a murderer before we can establish he is a criminal.

Delivar:

You earlier mentioned Nigeria is progressing SIGNIFICANTLY because of GSM coverage and my stance is that it is not a sufficient yardstick to use in measuring real progress. I never said GSM coverage is not a vital part of economic progress. I only said having GSM coverage doesn't count as one of the major metrics to guage the advancement of a nation. Talk about real progress and not GSM.

On the issue of China again, you are actually the one who started the comparison by saying it took America 240 years to develop. Like I said before, the age of a nation is irrelevant when talking about rate of development. You started lecturing history and that is off point. We are talking about the RATE OF DEVELOPMENT over a specific time frame and not about history of a nation. So stay on point. We are actually now comparing China's last 40 years vs Nigeria's last 40 years. Now my question is, if China can move rapidly over 40 years why can't Nigeria move rapidly over the same 40 years? It doesn't matter whether Nigeria is younger than China because a nation can still get it right from day one of existence. Why did it take the U.S the so-called 240 years to rise and then took China 6000 years to rise? The Age of a nation is irrelevant here. Nigeria being 60 years is not an excuse because another nation can actually develop within 30 years. The most important thing is JUST GET IT RIGHT!! Your history of China is just off point.

As for the Tinubu matter, you don't even need to be murderer to be a criminal. Rigging and stealing public funds also makes you a criminal. So no need waiting for the evidence of Tinubu being a murderer before we can establish he is a criminal.

Where did I say Nigeria progressed significantly by GSM alone? You specifically said Nigeria made no meaningful progress and I pointed out GSM as one of those areas Nigeria made progress on, I also pointed out banking reforms, we could also talk about private sector reforms such as ease of business registration, taxation and so on, these are meaningful progress. Once again comparing China to Nigeria is a lost argument, the reason I used the U.S as an example is based on the fact that they too were colonized. You cannot compaere Nigeria to China or France, that is an unfair comparison. One might even say comparing Nigeria to the U.S. is unfair too considering that they are not dealing with the tribal/ethnic religious crap that Nigeria deals with. No, the age of a nation is not irrelevant, it factors into its development. China had more years to develop than any nation but due to the size of the population one can excuse the delay. The U.S took over 150 years to become stable, South Africa had to endure colonization and apartheid. Like I said before, less than 10% of previously colonized countries are better than Nigeria. I also put it to you that Nigeria is actually less than 20 years old, if you are going to count the military era then you cannot discount China's imperial rule, if China could not progress during imperial rule why would Nigeria? The Communist party took over in the 1940s and did not fully realize the economic revolution until almost 60 years later, so chill! In regards to Tinubu, I prefer not to argue with you about that, you clearly have no evideence hence your shift from murder to rigging.

abbey621:


Where did I say Nigeria progressed significantly by GSM alone? You specifically said Nigeria made no meaningful progress and I pointed out GSM as one of those areas Nigeria made progress on, I also pointed out banking reforms, we could also talk about private sector reforms such as ease of business registration, taxation and so on, these are meaningful progress. Once again comparing China to Nigeria is a lost argument, the reason I used the U.S as an example is based on the fact that they too were colonized. You cannot compaere Nigeria to China or France, that is an unfair comparison. One might even say comparing Nigeria to the U.S. is unfair too considering that they are not dealing with the tribal/ethnic religious crap that Nigeria deals with. No, the age of a nation is not irrelevant, it factors into its development. China had more years to develop than any nation but due to the size of the population one can excuse the delay. The U.S took over 150 years to become stable, South Africa had to endure colonization and apartheid. Like I said before, less than 10% of previously colonized countries are better than Nigeria. I also put it to you that Nigeria is actually less than 20 years old, if you are going to count the military era then you cannot discount China's imperial rule, if China could not progress during imperial rule why would Nigeria? The Communist party took over in the 1940s and did not fully realize the economic revolution until almost 60 years later, so chill! In regards to Tinubu, I prefer not to argue with you about that, you clearly have no evideence hence your shift from murder to rigging.

Sorry, all the "meaningful progress" you listed above is meaningless as long as Nigeria remains one of the most impoverished nations on earth. So after 60 years they only thing we can boast of is GSM usage, little banking reforms and all that? Does that sound like huge progress over 60 years? It's funny you have now cut it down to 20 years by bringing up military rule. You ain't serious. Even colonization is not an excuse for underdevelopment. Before colonization our ancestors were already occupying the present day Nigeria for thousands of years. They should have made progress on their own. Why were they so weak to allow themselves to be colonised? Even during colonization we should have as well made some progress on our own. Colonization and military rule are just weak excuses. A nation still can progress massively even within 20 years of existence. So what weak excuse are you giving that Nigerian is 60 years?

You are now speaking against comparisons when you were the one who started it by saying it took U.S 240 years to grow? You now making a U-turn cos it's not favouring you.

I hope you realize you are simply beating about the bush saying unecessary things. In my first comment you quoted I said the problem Nigeria is having is a result of lack of education and enlightenment affecting the IQ of Nigerians. Then you quoted me saying it wasn't true, then adding that all that matters is "power of persuasion". You also showed support and love for Tinubu. That is what started this chain of exchanges. You need to defend your early statement that low IQ resulting from lack of education is not the problem of Nigeria. And also explain to me why Tinubu is a good guy to you. This is what you should focus on and not giving me all these time wasting unecessary lectures.

Delivar:

Sorry, all the "meaningful progress" you listed above is meaningless as long as Nigeria remains one of the most impoverished nations on earth. So after 60 years they only thing we can boast of is GSM usage, little banking reforms and all that? Does that sound like huge progress over 60 years? It's funny you have now cut it down to 20 years by bringing up military rule. You ain't serious. Even colonization is not an excuse for underdevelopment. Before colonization our ancestors were already occupying the present day Nigeria for thousands of years. They should have made progress on their own. Why were they so weak to allow themselves to be colonised? Even during colonization we should have as well made some progress on our own. Colonization and military rule are just weak excuses. A nation still can progress massively even within 20 years of existence. So what weak excuse are you giving that Nigerian is 60 years?

You are now speaking against comparisons when you were the one who started it by saying it took U.S 240 years to grow? You now making a U-turn cos it's not favouring you.

I hope you realize you are simply beating about the bush saying unecessary things. In my first comment you quoted I said the problem Nigeria is having is a result of lack of education and enlightenment affecting the IQ of Nigerians. Then you quoted me saying it wasn't true, then adding that all that matters is "power of persuasion". You also showed support and love for Tinubu. That is what started this chain of exchanges. You need to defend your early statement that low IQ resulting from lack of education is not the problem of Nigeria. And also explain to me why Tinubu is a good guy to you. This is what you should focus on and not giving me all these time wasting unecessary lectures.

First of all, I never defended Tinubu, I only objected to baseless accusations without facts or evidence, if you have proper evidence I'll support you in publishing them for all to see. Next I'm not against comparison but we should do so on equal terms. You cannot ignore the imperial rule of China and then turnaround and admit the military rule or ancestrial history of Nigeria. Your premise is BS and you know it! I have no problem admitting Nigeria is still lagging behind in terms of development but lagging behind is not the same as having no meaningful development since 1960. Moving on, do you have any evidence that the average IQ of a Nigerian is well below the worldwide average? For example are those in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Indonesia and so on more brilliant than the average Nigerian? I think you are confusing IQ with moral empathy, someone can be intelligent and yet corrupt. A person can be brilliant yet be greedy, if you think more education will automatically get rid of corruption in Nigeria then you are sadly mistaken. We've had 2 presidents, one a Ph.D holder and another one alledgedly uneducated, same issues, same problems. Lastly, surviving on less than $2 a day does not equate poor in Nigeria when you consider what the minimum wage is and the cost of living. Back in my school days, 700 Naira per day was more than adequate, 20k per month is not poverty so screw the international community and their bias assessment. Yes there is poverty in Nigeria especially the North but we also have corruption, greediness and a lot of wastages. Your assessment is based on faulty premise and not logical assessment, I implore you to seek true enlightenment!

abbey621:


First of all, I never defended Tinubu, I only objected to baseless accusations without facts or evidence, if you have proper evidence I'll support you in publishing them for all to see. Next I'm not against comparison but we should do so on equal terms. You cannot ignore the imperial rule of China and then turnaround and admit the military rule or ancestrial history of Nigeria. Your premise is BS and you know it! I have no problem admitting Nigeria is still lagging behind in terms of development but lagging behind is not the same as having no meaningful development since 1960. Moving on, do you have any evidence that the average IQ of a Nigerian is well below the worldwide average? For example are those in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Indonesia and so on more brilliant than the average Nigerian? I think you are confusing IQ with moral empathy, someone can be intelligent and yet corrupt. A person can be brilliant yet be greedy, if you think more education will automatically get rid of corruption in Nigeria then you are sadly mistaken. We've had 2 presidents, one a Ph.D holder and another one alledgedly uneducated, same issues, same problems. Lastly, surviving on less than $2 a day does not equate poor in Nigeria when you consider what the minimum wage is and the cost of living. Back in my school days, 700 Naira per day was more than adequate, 20k per month is not poverty so screw the international community and their bias assessment. Yes there is poverty in Nigeria especially the North but we also have corruption, greediness and a lot of wastages. Your assessment is based on faulty premise and not logical assessment, I implore you to seek true enlightenment!

l like your logical assessment. the other guy is too emotional

abbey621:


First of all, I never defended Tinubu, I only objected to baseless accusations without facts or evidence, if you have proper evidence I'll support you in publishing them for all to see. Next I'm not against comparison but we should do so on equal terms. You cannot ignore the imperial rule of China and then turnaround and admit the military rule or ancestrial history of Nigeria. Your premise is BS and you know it! I have no problem admitting Nigeria is still lagging behind in terms of development but lagging behind is not the same as having no meaningful development since 1960. Moving on, do you have any evidence that the average IQ of a Nigerian is well below the worldwide average? For example are those in Somalia, Zimbabwe, Indonesia and so on more brilliant than the average Nigerian? I think you are confusing IQ with moral empathy, someone can be intelligent and yet corrupt. A person can be brilliant yet be greedy, if you think more education will automatically get rid of corruption in Nigeria then you are sadly mistaken. We've had 2 presidents, one a Ph.D holder and another one alledgedly uneducated, same issues, same problems. Lastly, surviving on less than $2 a day does not equate poor in Nigeria when you consider what the minimum wage is and the cost of living. Back in my school days, 700 Naira per day was more than adequate, 20k per month is not poverty so screw the international community and their bias assessment. Yes there is poverty in Nigeria especially the North but we also have corruption, greediness and a lot of wastages. Your assessment is based on faulty premise and not logical assessment, I implore you to seek true enlightenment!

What evidence about Tinubu are you asking about? You need an evidence he doesn't sabotage electoral processes or you need an evidence he doesn't rob public funds or what really?

Still on the matter of China there is something you are failing to grasp. My emphasis as I stated before is the speed of development. The speed of development at any point in time in a nation has nothing to do with a nation's age. A nation can be 10 years and developing faster than a nation 100 years old. So there is no need boring me with lectures about China's and Nigeria's histories. It's TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. No one is saying Niveria didn't progress one inch. The emphasis here is that the speed of development of Nigeria is VERY SLOW. A lot would have been done over 60 years than have been achieved.

Nigeria is one of the poorest nations on earth. Standard of living is low compared to most nations earth. It is NOT POSSIBLE to have a high IQ and still live in penury. IQ is all about the ability to make the best decisions and make improvements. If Nigerians can't figure out how to make the best decisions to overcome their suffering and penury then that is the evidence they have a low IQ as result of lack of adequate education and orientation.

A person can be well enlightened and corrupt but that is not the issue. The issue is what happens when a society is made of majority well educated folks with a modern mindset. The intensity of corruption in a society filled with well educated people will always be far lower than a society filled with less educated people like in Nigeria.

Saying we have had a president with a pH.d and things remained the same shows your understanding of the whole matter is shallow. Do you think it will only take an educated president to change Nigeria? It will NEVER work as long as the bulk of the nation stays uneducated. And besides, please take note that the education I am referring to here is NOT about having a pH.d or university degree. It's more about the mindset and orientation required to create advanced societies. Many people with university degrees still don't even possess the mindset required to build advanced societies. That's the education I am talking about and not just school degrees.

Who told you surviving on less than $2 a day is not poverty because minimum wage is low? So minimum wage of 18,000 is not poverty? If this is your reasoning then I am afraid you don't deserve a response.

Delivar:

What evidence about Tinubu are you asking about? You need an evidence he doesn't sabotage electoral processes or you need an evidence he doesn't rob public funds or what really?

Still on the matter of China there is something you are failing to grasp. My emphasis as I stated before is the speed of development. The speed of development at any point in time in a nation has nothing to do with a nation's age. A nation can be 10 years and developing faster than a nation 100 years old. So there is no need boring me with lectures about China's and Nigeria's histories. It's TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. No one is saying Niveria didn't progress one inch. The emphasis here is that the speed of development of Nigeria is VERY SLOW. A lot would have been done over 60 years than have been achieved.

Nigeria is one of the poorest nations on earth. Standard of living is low compared to most nations earth. It is NOT POSSIBLE to have a high IQ and still live in penury. IQ is all about the ability to make the best decisions and make improvements. If Nigerians can't figure out how to make the best decisions to overcome their suffering and penury then that is the evidence they have a low IQ as result of lack of adequate education and orientation.

A person can be well enlightened and corrupt but that is not the issue. The issue is what happens when a society is made of majority well educated folks with a modern mindset. The intensity of corruption in a society filled with well educated people will always be far lower than a society filled with less educated people like in Nigeria.

Saying we have had a president with a pH.d and things remained the same shows your understanding of the whole matter is shallow. Do you think it will only take an educated president to change Nigeria? It will NEVER work as long as the bulk of the nation stays uneducated. And besides, please take note that the education I am referring to here is NOT about having a pH.d or university degree. It's more about the mindset and orientation required to create advanced societies. Many people with university degrees still don't even possess the mindset required to build advanced societies. That's the education I am talking about and not just school degrees.

Who told you surviving on less than $2 a day is not poverty? If this is your reasoning then I am afraid you don't deserve a response.

My friend your point is mute and your epistle irrelevant so I'm only going to address the highlighted parts of your epistle. A Nigerian president that is very educated surely would have prioritized education and employment over many other things, leadership at the top is paramount to successful nation building, if you disagree then continue arguing with your keyboard. Next, you said speed of development has nothing o do with a nation's age but this is another fallacy. All credible scholars agree that Rome was not built ina day, this theory effectively means only time and concentrated efforts can repair the damages of decades and even centuries of wrongdoings. It's getting pointless arguing with you because you keep shouting advanced societies yetyou've clearly failed to describe what makes up these advanced socieies. The average American is only slightly more educated than the average Nigerian. When it comes to sharpness, I can put my money on the average Nigerian surviving anywhere, I cannot do the same for the average American hence your theory is ridiculous! Finally, how much do you pay for house rent? How much do you pay for NEPA? Those who nare poor in America can still afford to pay $200 per month for house rent and another $50 per month for electricity; this equates to $3000 per year, can you afford to pay 1 million Naira per year for rent and NEPA? No because it would be ridiculous to subject the average Nigerian to such hence the reason $2 per day is a ridiculous baseline for poverty based on the white men reasoning. Standard and cost of living varies across countries, you can't just say people in Zimbabwe or Togo are living on less than $2 per day so they must be suffering or starving because people in the U.S or U.K cannot live on such.

abbey621:


My friend your point is mute and your epistle irrelevant so I'm only going to address the highlighted parts of your epistle. A Nigerian president that is very educated surely would have prioritized education and employment over many other things, leadership at the top is paramount to successful nation building, if you disagree then continue arguing with your keyboard. Next, you said speed of development has nothing o do with a nation's age but this is another fallacy. All credible scholars agree that Rome was not built ina day, this theory effectively means only time and concentrated efforts can repair the damages of decades and even centuries of wrongdoings. It's getting pointless arguing with you because you keep shouting advanced societies yetyou've clearly failed to describe what makes up these advanced socieies. The average American is only slightly more educated than the average Nigerian. When it comes to sharpness, I can put my money on the average Nigerian surviving anywhere, I cannot do the same for the average American hence your theory is ridiculous! Finally, how much do you pay for house rent? How much do you pay for NEPA? Those who nare poor in America can still afford to pay $200 per month for house rent and another $50 per month for electricity; this equates to $3000 per year, can you afford to pay 1 million Naira per year for rent and NEPA? No because it would be ridiculous to subject the average Nigerian to such hence the reason $2 per day is a ridiculous baseline for poverty based on the white men reasoning. Standard and cost of living varies across countries, you can't just say people in Zimbabwe or Togo are living on less than $2 per day so they must be suffering or starving because people in the U.S or U.K cannot live on such.

The first part in bold shows you have now understood that Nigeria is going no where close to development as long as the masses remain uneducated. That was what my very first comment at the beginning was all about. I said rogues like Tinubu will have no power in Nigeria if the masses were well educated and you dismissed it saying elections are all about "power of persuasion".

Nobody is saying leadership at the top is not paramount, I only said it's not the only requirement for successful long term nation building. Stop twisting my response.

Who says Rome was built in a day? You keep going off point, twisting my responses and driving this conversations to the wrong direction. Rome was not built in a day, BUT all Romes must not be built within the same time span. This is the cardinal point I have been trying to make. Your earlier said it took the U.S 240 years to develop and Nigeria is just 60 years. Every country must not take 240 years to develop. A country can take 40 years to develop while another country can take 1000 years to develop. This means the age of a country has nothing to do with how fast it can develop. The rate of development is a function of POLICIES in place not age of a nation.

Of what use is your "Nigerian sharpness" when Nigerians can't improve their lives with it? The main thing here is quality of life. As long as the standard of living of the average American or Japanese is way above that of Nigerians the "Nigerian sharpness" counts a nothing.

There is no need talking about the $2 poverty baseline thing. Nigerians are poor because the quality of life is poor and many Nigerians can't afford the basic things to live comfortably. It has nothing to do with $2 or $1,000,000.

Delivar:

The first part in bold shows you have now understood that Nigeria is going no where close to development as long as the masses remain uneducated. That was what my very first comment at the beginning was all about. I said rogues like Tinubu will have no power in Nigeria if the masses were well educated and you dismissed it saying elections are all about "power of persuasion".

Nobody is saying leadership at the top is not paramount, I only said it's not the only requirement for successful long term nation building. Stop twisting my response.

Who says Rome was built in a day? You keep going off point, twisting my responses and driving this conversations to the wrong direction. Rome was not built in a day, BUT all Romes must not be built within the same time span. This is the cardinal point I have been trying to make. Your earlier said it took the U.S 240 years to develop and Nigeria is just 60 years. Every country must not take 240 years to develop. A country can take 40 years to develop while another country can take 1000 years to develop. This means the age of a country has nothing to do with how fast it can develop. The rate of development is a function of POLICIES in place not age of a nation.

Of what use is your "Nigerian sharpness" when Nigerians can't improve their lives with it? The main thing here is quality of life. As long as the standard of living of the average American or Japanese is way above that of Nigerians the "Nigerian sharpness" counts a nothing.

There is no need talking about the $2 poverty baseline thing. Nigerians are poor because the quality of life is poor and many Nigerians can't afford the basic things to live comfortably. It has nothing to do with $2 or $1,000,000.

Arguing wiith you is like moving in circles. First you started off with Nigeria is not developed because most of the people have low IQ, I refuted that with analysis which shows majority of Nigerians are able to survive anywhere and that the average nigerian is not dumber than the average American. I gave you several areas where Nigeria has shown some developents and how it compared to the U.S. early history. You went on to use China as an example of fast development, I debunked your analysis by showing you that China had 2000 years of imperial rule to build their foundation, you discounted that by saying their ancestrial history does not matter yet you give credence to Nigeria's militry rule and how it should have been used to develop the nation, you said age has nothing to do with a nation's deveopment but you have yet to show me a developed nation with the population similar to Nigeria that developed without going through hardship, one nation that developed with little to no history. My friend you have no point, your analysis is flawed and your comparison is one sided. You cannot successfully defend your point so you argue blindly. Like I said earlier research more into these issues and stop using failed rhetoric, SEEK TRUE ENLIGHTENMENT!

abbey621:


Arguing wiith you is like moving in circles. First you started off with Nigeria is not developed because most of the people have low IQ, I refuted that with analysis which shows majority of Nigerians are able to survive anywhere and that the average nigerian is not dumber than the average American. I gave you several areas where Nigeria has shown some developents and how it compared to the U.S. early history. You went on to use China as an example of fast development, I debunked your analysis by showing you that China had 2000 years of imperial rule to build their foundation, you discounted that by saying their ancestrial history does not matter yet you give credence to Nigeria's militry rule and how it should have been used to develop the nation, you said age has nothing to do with a nation's deveopment but you have yet to show me a developed nation with the population similar to Nigeria that developed without going through hardship, one nation that developed with little to no history. My friend you have no point, your analysis is flawed and your comparison is one sided. You cannot successfully defend your point so you argue blindly. Like I said earlier research more into these issues and stop using failed rhetoric, SEEK TRUE ENLIGHTENMENT!

So being able to survive anywhere is your proof that Nigerians are not lacking education? Listen to yourself bro

You still repackaging and recycling the same points I have already treated previously.

I never discounted China's imperial rule and gave credence to Nigeria's military rule as you put it up there. What happened was you used colonialism and military rule as an excuse for Nigeria's underdevelopment, then I had to tell you that national history of colonialism, military rule or imperialism is not an excuse for underdevelopment. Nothing stops China or Nigeria from getting it right from day one of existence.

Delivar:

So being able to survive anywhere is your proof that Nigerians are not lacking education? Listen to yourself bro

You still repackaging and recycling the same points I have already treated previously.

I never discounted China's imperial rule and gave credence to Nigeria's military rule as you put it up there. What happened was you used colonialism and military rule as an excuse for Nigeria's underdevelopment, then I had to tell you that national history of colonialism, military rule or imperialism is not an excuse for underdevelopment. Nothing stops China or Nigeria from getting it right from day one of existence.

Yet China didn't get it right on day 1 or day 1000 or day 10,000. So what's your point? The same China that didn't get it right for so long is now getting your praise for getting it right after centuries of underdevelopment; yet you rebuke Nigeria, is this not hypocrisy? In as much as countries like China and the U.S took their sweet time to deveop properly, I refuse to succumb to your failed nation theory, yes Nigeria is underachieving and a lot more could be done but if you think it is way worse than what some of these developed countries went through then you are operating on failed logic. There's no need for anymore argument, you used China to counter my argument and I showed you how flawed your praise on China really is, no need to keep going in circles!

abbey621:


Yet China didn't get it right on day 1 or day 1000 or day 10,000. So what's your point? The same China that didn't get it right for so long is now getting your praise for getting it right after centuries of underdevelopment; yet you rebuke Nigeria, is this not hypocrisy? In as much as countries like China and the U.S took their sweet time to deveop properly, I refuse to succumb to your failed nation theory, yes Nigeria is underachieving and a lot more could be done but if you think it is way worse than what some of these developed countries went through then you are operating on failed logic. There's no need for anymore argument, you used China to counter my argument and I showed you how flawed your praise on China really is, no need to keep going in circles!

First of all you got me wrong by saying I am PRAISING China for getting it right eventually. I have repeatedly told you that my emphasis all these while is the SPEED OF DEVELOPMENT over a certain timeframe and not just getting right. I referenced China's ability to progress rapidly in 40 years. I then asked why it isn't possible for Nigeria to progress at that rate too. Unfortunately, you dragged the conversation to national history of imperialism, colonization and all that which I repeatedly said is irrelevant when talking about speed of development over a selected time span.

The fact that it took United States 240 years or took China 2000 years DOES NOT mean it must take Nigeria 3000 years. America actually started progressing rapidly and getting things right starting from independence in 1776. Why can't Nigeria do the same? Must it take us 5000 years? If it took China 2000 years to find their feet then that is VERY BAD and Nigeria SHOULD NOT follow the same part. Some nations started building up rapidly starting from day one so Nigeria has no excuse for not making great positive steps towards development for the past 60 years. My point is that the progress the nation has made since 60 years is TOO POOR over such number of years. This is my point on the matter, even though you have deviated it from the education issue I raised in my first post which you disagreed.

Delivar:

First of all you got me wrong by saying I am PRAISING China for getting it right eventually. I have repeatedly told you that my emphasis all these while is the SPEED OF DEVELOPMENT over a certain timeframe and not just getting right. I referenced China's ability to progress rapidly in 40 years. I then asked why it isn't possible for Nigeria to progress at that rate too. Unfortunately, you dragged the conversation to national history of imperialism, colonization and all that which I repeatedly said is irrelevant when talking about speed of development over a selected time span.

The fact that it took United States 240 years or took China 2000 years DOES NOT mean it must take Nigeria 3000 years. America actually started progressing rapidly and getting things right starting from independence in 1776. Why can't Nigeria do the same? Must it take us 5000 years? If it took China 2000 years to find their feet then that is VERY BAD and Nigeria SHOULD NOT follow the same part. Some nations started building up rapidly starting from day one so Nigeria has no excuse for not making great positive steps towards development for the past 60 years. My point is that the progress the nation has made since 60 years is TOO POOR over such number of years. This is my point on the matter, even though you have deviated it from the education issue I raised in my first post which you disagreed.

Are you trying lecture me about American history now?....lol. America's progress from 1776 to 1836(60 years) was very modest, in fact not until after the Louisiana purchase did things really start to pick up. You are still confusing yourself, speed of development cannot ignore a country's age. Speed of development cannot ignore the variance between nations. Just because something works in China or the U.S. does not men it will work in Nigeria or Zimbabwe. Your premise is flawed as you started with low IQ is responsible for the poor rate of development in Nigeria which is a FALLACY! I agree the progress made is poor but this does not mean there have beeen no meaningful progress since 1960, this does not mean you can educate all the masses and expect a more advanced society afterwards. Greed, corruption and human errors also plays a major part, some of the most educated people in the world are also the most destructive or ignorant. You have yet to show me 10% of the previously colonized nation that developed more rapidly than Nigeria, your analysis was not based on a fair comparison rather you compared Nigeria with China, a nation with a much longer history and vast human resources. You compare a nation of 180 million with that of over 1 Billion, you compare a nation where the people operate as one with a nation of multiple ethnic tribes with several conflicts. Your comparison is simply FLAWED!

abbey621:


Are you trying lecture me about American history now?....lol. America's progress from 1776 to 1836(60 years) was very modest, in fact not until after the Louisiana purchase did things really start to pick up. You are still confusing yourself, speed of development cannot ignore a country's age. Speed of development cannot ignore the variance between nations. Just because something works in China or the U.S. does not men it will work in Nigeria or Zimbabwe. Your premise is flawed as you started with low IQ is responsible for the poor rate of development in Nigeria which is a FALLACY! I agree the progress made is poor but this does not mean there have beeen no meaningful progress since 1960, this does not mean you can educate all the masses and expect a more advanced society afterwards. Greed, corruption and human errors also plays a major part, some of the most educated people in the world are also the most destructive or ignorant. You have yet to show me 10% of the previously colonized nation that developed more rapidly than Nigeria, your analysis was not based on a fair comparison rather you compared Nigeria with China, a nation with a much longer history and vast human resources. You compare a nation of 180 million with that of over 1 Billion, you compare a nation where the people operate as one with a nation of multiple ethnic tribes with several conflicts. Your comparison is simply FLAWED!

Let me ask this simple question:
Is it possible for a nation to be 20 years old but developing faster than Nigeria that is 60 years old? YES or NO?

Delivar:

Let me ask this simple question:
Is it possible for a nation to be 20 years old but developing faster than Nigeria that is 60 years old? YES or NO?

Yes but to compare such a nation to Nigeria without considering variables such as size, population and so on is not very bright!

abbey621:


Yes but to compare such a nation to Nigeria without considering variables such as size, population and so on is not very bright!

If your answer is YES that it is possible for a younger nation to develop faster than an older nation then it PROVES a nation's age has no significant influence on the rate of development of a nation at any given timeframe. It's how a nation manages its internal affairs and challenges that determines how fast it can develop and not age. Nation building involves challenges and there are ways to overcome these challenges. If Nigeria is failing to develop significantly it is NOT because the country is "too young" at 60 years as you claim. Nigeria is simply failing to manage its internal affairs.

EDUCATION among the population plays a crucial role to provide that knowledge, orientation and mindset required to handle internal issues that prevents a nation from making good progress. Education doesn't mean there will be no corruption or crimes, they will only be drastically reduced and progress boosted in multiple folds.

Delivar:

If your answer is YES that it is possible for a younger nation to develop faster than an older nation then it PROVES a nation's age has no significant influence on the rate of development of a nation at any given timeframe. It's how a nation manages its internal affairs and challenges that determines how fast it can develop and not age. Nation building involves challenges and there are ways to overcome these challenges. If Nigeria is failing to develop significantly it is NOT because the country is "too young" at 60 years. Nigeria is simply failing to manage its internal affairs.

EDUCATION among the population plays a crucial role to provide that knowledge, orientation and mindset required to handle internal issues that prevents a nation from making good progress. Education doesn't mean there will be no corruption or crimes, they will only be drastically reduced and progress boosted in multiple folds.

It's obvious you've not read anything I wrote. Possibiity does not equal certainty hence your analysis is flawed once again. Is it possible for me to start a business and succeed immediately, yes of course; does this mean that businesses built upon years of solid foundation are irrelevant or doing it wrong, NOPE! My friend, you obviously haven't been involved in much advance debates or scholarly research. Your premise is full of holes and I can pick them apart so easily.

Age of a country plays a role in it's development but it is no the only factor. Speed of development is important but not more important than maintaining such developments. China, U.S., Japan and many others are products of sustained development, if a country like Ghana suddenly prospers overnight, it does not take away from their achievements. Nigeria should be judged based on it's history, population and resources not compared to a country like China. In as much as the educated people we have in power are still bound by corruption, greed and plain evil, your theory on education holds no water. Education will not reduce corruption, getting a Ph.D or being exposed to world cultures will not replace the evil in one's heart. There is a reason why certain countries implemented jail terms for corruption and others choosing to ignore it, unfortunately the reason is not education!

Nobody said Nigeria was too young to be developed rather what I'm saying is that failure to develop significantly at aage 60 should not be looked at as complete failure. Even if it takes 200 years, what matters is movement in the right direction, automatically educating everyone and hoping that will reduce corruption is a FANTASY! What we should be campaigning for is more younger, reasonable candidates that appeal to the masses. An educated youngster that does not know how to gather votes from market women, meat sellers and so on is doomed! An educated candidate that won't take into account the religious and ethnic differences in each region is also doomed! Nigeria's problems are so unique that no other country in the world has the same problems and progressed significantly, if you doubt me then can you show me a country with over 200 ethnic groups and religious indifferences which has managed to move away from 3rd world country status?

Only one solution exist to fully rectify our problems and that is complete and unbias separation! Let the North be on their own, the Southwest on its own and the SS/SW on its own. Without this, we can only continue to try and try, maybe one day we'll succeed....lol

abbey621:


It's obvious you've not read anything I wrote. Possibiity does not equal certainty hence your analysis is flawed once again. Is it possible for me to start a business and succeed immediately, yes of course; does this mean that businesses built upon years of solid foundation are irrelevant or doing it wrong, NOPE! My friend, you obviously haven't been involved in much advance debates or scholarly research. Your premise is full of holes and I can pick them apart so easily.

Age of a country plays a role in it's development but it is no the only factor. Speed of development is important but not more important than maintaining such developments. China, U.S., Japan and many others are products of sustained development, if a country like Ghana suddenly prospers overnight, it does not take away from their achievements. Nigeria should be judged based on it's history, population and resources not compared to a country like China. In as much as the educated people we have in power are still bound by corruption, greed and plain evil, your theory on education holds no water. Education will not reduce corruption, getting a Ph.D or being exposed to world cultures will not replace the evil in one's heart. There is a reason why certain countries implemented jail terms for corruption and others choosing to ignore it, unfortunately the reason is not education!

Nobody said Nigeria was too young to be developed rather what I'm saying is that failure to develop significantly at aage 60 should not be looked at as complete failure. Even if it takes 200 years, what matters is movement in the right direction, automatically educating everyone and hoping that will reduce corruption is a FANTASY! What we should be campaigning for is more younger, reasonable candidates that appeal to the masses. An educated youngster that does not know how to gather votes from market women, meat sellers and so on is doomed! An educated candidate that won't take into account the religious and ethnic differences in each region is also doomed! Nigeria's problems are so unique that no other country in the world has the same problems and progressed significantly, if you doubt me then can you show me a country with over 200 ethnic groups and religious indifferences which has managed to move away from 3rd world country status?

Only one solution exist to fully rectify our problems and that is complete and unbias separation! Let the North be on their own, the Southwest on its own and the SS/SW on its own. Without this, we can only continue to try and try, maybe one day we'll succeed....lol

If you insist the age of a nation plays a significant role in its rate of development then that's your own opinion and you can stick with it. I wouldn't mention the age issue anymore.

Concerning the aspect of education, I clearly see your PROBLEM is that you are having a wrong impression of education to mean all about having university degrees. The education I keep mentioning here repeatedly is all more about the MINDSET AND ORIENTATION of an individual. This is the kind of education vital to human development. Having a pH.d or B.sc definitely doesn't reduce corruption and greed, BUT having the right MINDSET is what reduces corruption as well as setting citizens of a country on the part of development. The kind of mindset Nigerians have is not the type that would make the nation succeed. Before any meaningful development takes place the mindset of Nigerians will have to be modernized to overome certain internal challenges like tribalism and religious fanaticism that hinders development. Yes Nigeria's problems are unique but with the right mindset they can be overcomed. If Nigerians were truly educated by having the right mindset, tribalism and religion wouldn't even be an issue during elections as you wrote up there. That's the kind of education I mean and not just getting school degrees

I still insist that educating the population by instilling the right MINDSET is actually going to pave way for a rapid development of the country.

Delivar:

If you insist the age of a nation plays a significant role in its rate of development then that's your own opinion and you can stick with it. I wouldn't mention the age issue anymore.

Concerning the aspect of education, I clearly see your PROBLEM is that you are having a wrong impression of education to mean all about having university degrees. The education I keep mentioning here repeatedly is all more about the MINDSET AND ORIENTATION of an individual. This is the kind of education vital to human development. Having a pH.d or B.sc definitely doesn't reduce corruption and greed, BUT having the right MINDSET is what reduces corruption as well as setting citizens of a country on the part of development. The kind of mindset Nigerians have is not the type that would make the nation succeed. Before any meaningful development takes place the mindset of Nigerians will have to be modernized to overome certain internal challenges like tribalism and religious fanaticism that hinders development. Yes Nigeria's problems are unique but with the right mindset they can be overcomed. If Nigerians were truly educated by having the right mindset, tribalism and religion wouldn't even be an issue during elections as you wrote up there. That's the kind of education I mean and not just getting school degrees

I still insist that educating the population by instilling the right MINDSET is actually going to pave way for a rapid development of the country.

How do you propose to change the mindset of 180 million people? Please let your soolution be realistic and achievable within 60 years for a country like Nigeria.

abbey621:


How do you propose to change the mindset of 180 million people? Please let your soolution be realistic and achievable within 60 years for a country like Nigeria.

Good question!!

The various ways ideas are impacted on people in Nigeria is the same way changing the mindset of majority of Nigerians can be achieved. Channels such as churches, mosques, schools, the media, social gatherings and even home training are all the tools. Although these mediums are currently being used to influence the mindset of the population positively but unfortunately the effort is not sufficient enough. It needs to be heavily intensified. Schools in Nigeria for instance only focus on educating students to learn English and mathematics. Nigerian schools don't teach ethics and values in any meaningful way that can make an impact. Churches too most times only preach about miraculous prosperity and other irrelevant things that can never make people understand what it requires to improve their standard of living of citizens of a country. I wonder how many times parents discussed with their kids highlighting how tribalism, religious fanaticism, corruption and other vices are idestroying the country. There are currently no mass media outlets wholely dedicated to achieving this objective.

This is not something that can be achieved overnight. Its something that takes many years of constant and intensive effort to achieve. But at the end the results will start taking effect gradually.