Mickael2:


Boss, learning curve after three years? At the World Cup your excuse was 'he is still building', now we are getting even worse and you have reversed to 'he is getting results', so after building for the past 3 years all he can manage to do is to 'get results'? By 1993 Westerhof's team was playing brilliant football, I remember asking Sia1 something about that and he told me that by 92 everybody already knew what to do, when you come to camp the coach will just perfect what you had already learnt, if after three years(with a proper tournament in between which affords coaches enough time to train their players) we are still playing without any identity then we haven't built anything. You do know that if Rohr gets sacked that a new coach will have to start from the scratch, because no good coach will adopt this playing method, what then have we built? Klinsman left Germany and Leow came in and continued the same pattern, in that case you can say Klinsman built something, this coach that took Argentina to the final of the 2014 WC left, Martino came in and continued his philosophy and Argentina almost won a Copa, sadly these have been three wasted years, yes we have made it to the WC and the AFCON but what will be the benefit in the long run?

Mickael2:


Boss, learning curve after three years? At the World Cup your excuse was 'he is still building', now we are getting even worse and you have reversed to 'he is getting results', so after building for the past 3 years all he can manage to do is to 'get results'? By 1993 Westerhof's team was playing brilliant football, I remember asking Sia1 something about that and he told me that by 92 everybody already knew what to do, when you come to camp the coach will just perfect what you had already learnt, if after three years(with a proper tournament in between which affords coaches enough time to train their players) we are still playing without any identity then we haven't built anything. You do know that if Rohr gets sacked that a new coach will have to start from the scratch, because no good coach will adopt this playing method, what then have we built? Klinsman left Germany and Leow came in and continued the same pattern, in that case you can say Klinsman built something, this coach that took Argentina to the final of the 2014 WC left, Martino came in and continued his philosophy and Argentina almost won a Copa, sadly these have been three wasted years, yes we have made it to the WC and the AFCON but what will be the benefit in the long run?

wayodude:


Did we really celebrate Westerhof whilst he was here? Really?? Remember the 5-1 hammering we recieved from Algeria in the opening game of the 1990 AFCON?

Remember the 2-1 loss away to Ivory Coast in the world cup qualifiers for USA 94?

Remember how fans and media ganged up against him saying similar to what you guys are saying about Rohr now? Saying he played 9-0-1 formation in Abidjan?

Remember how people used to criticize his choice of camp in Papandel (Holland) saying he must be the owner of the resort that's why he always camps the team there?

Remember how people said he was only interested in selling players abroad after local boy Finidi joined Ajax. Some said he was after egunje.

Remember people saying our team was so good any manager would have got the results he was getting and our performances were in spite of having him rather than because of him?

Either nostalgia is playing games with many here or they are too young to remember what happened back then. Westerhof was villified big time until he qualified us for the world cup and then won AFCON 1994 and both happened within a space of 3 months!! For the rest of the time he was attacked in beer parlours more than he was defended. Nairaland being one of many modern day beer parlours.

komekn:


In the context of African football l understand your position. However, I believe our aspiration should be above that. African football has regressed comparative to yester years.

So let's increase our aspiration and expectation to the higher levels of world football.

How do you equate SPECAIL TALENT past glories or present continous progression and development.

Football is a very short term career and if at age 21 you are not playing professional senior football then your in regression.

However, if you are in world class top team Barca, Bayern, PSG, etc, etc you may be given the benefit of the doubt on account of limited and restrictive opportunity.

Icon4s:


Firstly, A good number of the senior Westerhofs players were carried over form the 1980s. They had been part and parcel of the team and so you wouldn't expect issues when it came to integration.

Secondly, the New inclusions in the team were already high flying professionals that were already delivering at their respective clubs, Both locally and Foreign. Not like now that we have players who have just been newly promoted from the academies. And we hope will deliver.

The bottom line is we do not have the armory that we had then. There is a gulf in Class.

And on Rohr, We have all accepted that he is not much of a good tactician,but again remember The NFA then engaged Bonfere Jo as a tactician to Westerhoff. But as Earthquake2 rightly said, Rohr is a good Team Manager. Now, the question should be what will it cost the NFF to engage a tactician for the team?

And o Rohr learning, oga, every coach dey learn o.

Icon4s:
TheSupernerd, I keep asking u if we are in the New dawn yet and you have been shifting that dawn. And have been waiting and waiting to declare that "New Dawn".

Guess what, some of us have been waiting and expecting that New dawn for the past 20years! (1998 to be precise).

We are no longer that dominant force that we used to be. Yes, we have a very rich pedigree but we must also realize that it is no longer business as usual. Nigeria is no longer much better than teams like SA, Congo DR, Mali, Guinea, and the likes. And we arguably can only rub shoulders with likes of CIV, Senegal, Morocco, Egypt.

For those that expected us to have over run SA in Jo' burg you need to have a rethink. The current squad is not even as gifted as the squad we had from 2002 to 2010 era, which to me was our last generation of SUPER Eagles. Just compare position by position including the 3 choice goalies and u will realize. What we have now are a group of mostly young talented players who we hope will with time start delivering the goods.

I do not belong to the group that excessively hype players neither do I belong to the group that Pull down players. The earlier we realize that we are not that dominant force we used to be in the 1990s and 2000s the better for us.

Yes, we are on a building or rebuilding process, just like have been since 1998, and so we need to be patient with the team.

And on Rohr, we all know he is not much gifted tactically. Such is for so many coaches. The NFF had to employ Bonfere Jo as a personal tactician to Westerhoff. So many here call Rohr ''White Onigbinde'' but I see him more as ''white Amodu''. The simple philosophy that guides such a coach is ''if you cannot win do not lose''. Just like Amodu, Rohr took over the coaching position and unlike most other coaches, he started with the already existing squad and started getting results while the gradual injection of New blood with time. Some call it conservatism but I call it building with stability . Some here even once called Rohr a white version of Icon4s . And I have adviced a couple of smart analysts here before to go for Basic coaching certificates and that will make them see things not only as critics but also as coaches. They used to call me a conservatist until they met Rohr TheGoodJoe and TheSuperNerd how far?

To be candid this is one of Rohr's thinnest squads he has ever paraded. We were so unlucky with the wrong calls by the officials especially that 2nd goal which could have been the decider. What I will say is lets be patient with Rohr, he looks like someone still on the learning curve. He has managed to give us the AFCON ticket with a game to spare even after losing our first game. Those that have criticized him have every Right to do so just like those who have hailed him. We know Rohr is not an excellent tactician but he has continued to deliver which is the ultimate yardstick to judge a coach.

Mickael2:



I know of that, but back then none of the critics could say his team's performance was bad, that match against Algeria happens, that was in 91, I said 93 which is the period I vaguely know of, in that 94 Afcon I remember asking my dad why it was only Nigeria that was passing the ball, I can't remember against which team exactly, such was the dominance and it started from late 92/early 93. Back then the media was against Westerhof not exactly 'every nigerian' like you put it, I know atleast all my elder siblings respect him totally, the media started that war against Westerhof probably because of some personal interest which I do not know, but that isn't even my point. Westerhof took a bunch of guys and had them playing so well that people started saying that any coach could perform wonders with those players, same thing people said about Pep in Barca until Tito and then Tata took over. But in Rohr's case, he has taken a young, talented team backwards, if we are at least performing well but the results aren't coming I may say ok, but bar the match away to Zambia and against Cameroon we haven't seen any extraordinary performance. Bottomline? Westerhof's team was so dominant that people thought anybody could do same with the set of players he had, Rohr's team is so bad that people are wondering if we wouldn't be better off with another person despite the results. Please and please, Rohr's case and that of Westerhof isn't related.

chrisooblog:
7 corner kicks, 5-6 shot on target one of which we scored two wrongly disallowed, 2 chances from headers to score yet we were atrocious meanwhile south Africa who scored from their only shot on target were fantastic ok o

fabyom:
Keshi drew Iran, he was lucky against Bosnia. He went to a world cup tournament with players like Gabriel, Uchebo etc. If you want to mention a good coach please do not call keshi. He was just a lucky coach. As much as I do not really like Rohr he has done a very good job.
No Mikel, no Moses, no Ndidi, no Ighalo, no Shehu, no Aina, no Ebuhei No Problem!

During Keshi time the bench were made up of suspect players.

Mickael2:



I wanted to drop this but not anymore.

Musa scored a perfectly legal goal against Iran which was cancelled, how come you didn't mention that he was unlucky against Iran? We totally outplayed Bosnia. In fact in 90 full minutes Bosnia created only three chances of note, Ameobi after coming on and even Babatunde and Uzoenyi had decent chances in that game, we were the better team on the day and if Bosnia had scored trust me we would have still scored again, you all are making it sound as if it was a Chelsea vs Barcelona match, we played good football and deserved our luck totally. Against Argentina we lost, Argentina eventually got to the final. Bosnia were the first team to qualify for the WC in Europe then with the highest goalscorer during the qualifiers, yet we didn't just beat them, we outplayed them, forget results for now, I would recommend you watch that match again or maybe the highlights before talking again.

Now in 2018, the worst possible Argentine side that were sent to the cleaners by Croatia and yet we couldn't get a point off them. Aren't you also forgetting that Iceland missed a penalty? Isn't that also lucky? Croatia only won three games in regular time at the world cup, they were not better than Bosnia of 2014 yet we never even bothered them for 90 full minutes. See I don't like discrediting people, Rohr's team defeated Iceland and lost against the remaining teams. Keshi defeated Bosnia, drew against Iran and played well against Argentina, in fact I remember vividly that Mikel missed an easy header that would have dragged us level in that game, is that not bad luck? But at least we lost fighting. Then did you watch the match against France? Brilliant football.

Mickael2:



I know of that, but back then none of the critics could say his team's performance was bad, that match against Algeria happens, that was in 91, I said 93 which is the period I vaguely know of, in that 94 Afcon I remember asking my dad why it was only Nigeria that was passing the ball, I can't remember against which team exactly, such was the dominance and it started from late 92/early 93. Back then the media was against Westerhof not exactly 'every nigerian' like you put it, I know atleast all my elder siblings respect him totally, the media started that war against Westerhof probably because of some personal interest which I do not know, but that isn't even my point. Westerhof took a bunch of guys and had them playing so well that people started saying that any coach could perform wonders with those players, same thing people said about Pep in Barca until Tito and then Tata took over. But in Rohr's case, he has taken a young, talented team backwards, if we are at least performing well but the results aren't coming I may say ok, but bar the match away to Zambia and against Cameroon we haven't seen any extraordinary performance. Bottomline? Westerhof's team was so dominant that people thought anybody could do same with the set of players he had, Rohr's team is so bad that people are wondering if we wouldn't be better off with another person despite the results. Please and please, Rohr's case and that of Westerhof isn't related.

wayodude:


My friend since you admit you were a youngster then let me tell you now, Westerhof was rattled left and right EVEN in 1993. That was when we lost to ivory coast away after taking the lead. In 1993 in terms of selection people were still accusing him of not picking Wilfred Agbonivare in goal to replace Alloy Agu, which he eventually did.
They picked on him to include Richard Owubokiri as one of the strikers but he wouldn't budge and stuck to Yekini, Siasia and Amokachi!
The list of accusations against him was endless.

In terms of game management, they said his team's only played well in the first half and 'fell asleep' in the second half. Westerhof once responded saying 'thats not true, there are no beds on the pitch'

In almost every game under him we played better in the first half scoring most of our goals and were under the cosh in the second half. When we qualified for our first world cup, the final game away to Algeria which we needed a draw to qualify, we scored first in the first half (Finidi) and in the second half when Algeria came at us and scored and then camped in our half looking for a winner to eliminate us I couldn't breathe! That was under the much respected today Westerhof who then was treated like Rohr is now!

Trust me or ask your brothers.

And by the way we didn't always dominante possession even in that 94 AFCON against Egypt in the group stage and Zaire in the quarter final we had less possession.

wayodude:


Finally, this talk about Rohr inheriting a good young team and taking them backwards makes me laugh. This was our team in the last competitive game before Rohr was appointed. From what you see there was that a good young team? Hahahaha

Rohr CREATED this team! Ready to debate this with whoever. Try me. Lol

Mickael2:


Haba, this is not true at all. How many of the players that started against SA on Saturday made their debuts under Rohr? Just 2!

Mickael2:



I did point out that I can not remember which match exactly that was, but our dominance was the case 8 times out of 10.

I think I know about that first half syndrome, someone told me then that it was because of how we played in particular that the Europeans started defeating us with proper game planning. If I remember correctly most of the African teams that went to the world cup before 1990 were all North African teams and they played more like European, then Nigeria came with that first half dominant display which caught them off guard in that 94' world cup until Italy showed the whole world that you can use experience to defeat Africans.....I actually do not know how authentic this theory is but I always believed it.

However let me explain again. Rohr's in game management is not even average either, if we play well in the first half then fall asleep in the second half nobody will be asking for Rohr's head, the problem is we do not even play well at all. Back then we paraded some local players, I can argue that they were not as well conditioned as their foreign counterparts but let's not go there. The point here still remains that under Westerhof at least we played well......anyways Sir I have come to realise that some of the persons on nairaland are chieftains in Nigerian football and I have had a lot of personal conversations with them, so I will just leave it at 'you know better than I do'

Mickael2:

.

However let me explain again. Rohr's in game management is not even average either, if we play well in the first half then fall asleep in the second half nobody will be asking for Rohr's head, the problem is we do not even play well at all. Back then we paraded some local players, I can argue that they were not as well conditioned as their foreign counterparts but let's not go there. The point here still remains that under Westerhof at least we played well......anyways Sir I have come to realise that some of the persons on nairaland are chieftains in Nigerian football and I have had a lot of personal conversations with them, so I will just leave it at 'you know better than I do'

Samueltemi337:
We did not score any goal against iran.... the only goal that was disallowed was the goal victor moses scored against france

Odunayaw:


What's this? Need I remind of Pre-WC/WC proper games? What was the noise everywhere? Was it not how we are a second-half team?
What made you forget? Selective Amnesia?

SMH

wayodude:


You just helped me firm up my point. Thanks

COOL10:
I still don't understand how a very talented player like Sophia Omidiji didn't make the Super Falcons team. Any reasonable explanation for this?

wayodude:


I don't claim to know better generally speaking. What I do know alot about is the history of our super eagles having watched manager come manger go, player come player go for almost 3 decades and I can tell you now that what is happening today in regards to our team and manager is no different to what happend in the past and we are lucky we didn't change course when there was mounting fan pressure to do so. You are a good guy.

Joebie:
Haha abi why una think say Buhari put am there? cabal and friends only must chop.

Mickael2:



When you are analysing you do that generally, now how many matches in total are you talking about here? I van only remember about three, England, Argentina and? Don't count Poland please. So two good second halves out of more than 20 will now justify the tag 'second half team'. Don't you have somewhere to be?

Odunayaw:
What 20? Stop pulling numbers from thin air!

preWC/WC (where we were very much a 2nd half team) we played 8 games in total and four of them was a 2nd half turn up (England,Poland, Iceland and Argentina) , that represents 50% no?

And how many games have we played after the world cup? 12 or 4?

This is not an excreting contest. How would anyone take you serious. Be better.

BascoVanVeli:


Not good enough.

wayodude:


My friend since you admit you were a youngster then let me tell you now, Westerhof was rattled left and right EVEN in 1993. That was when we lost to ivory coast away after taking the lead. In 1993 in terms of selection people were still accusing him of not picking Wilfred Agbonivare in goal to replace Alloy Agu, which he eventually did.
They picked on him to include Richard Owubokiri as one of the strikers but he wouldn't budge and stuck to Yekini, Siasia and Amokachi!
The list of accusations against him was endless.

In terms of game management, they said his team's only played well in the first half and 'fell asleep' in the second half. Westerhof once responded saying 'thats not true, there are no beds on the pitch'

In almost every game under him we played better in the first half scoring most of our goals and were under the cosh in the second half. When we qualified for our first world cup, the final game away to Algeria which we needed a draw to qualify, we scored first in the first half (Finidi) and in the second half when Algeria came at us and scored and then camped in our half looking for a winner to eliminate us I couldn't breathe! That was under the much respected today Westerhof who then was treated like Rohr is now!

Trust me or ask your brothers.

And by the way we didn't always dominante possession even in that 94 AFCON against Egypt in the group stage and Zaire in the quarter final we had less possession.

wayodude:


Being young in management terms doesn't cut it as an excuse. He's been at spurs for 5yrs! And he didn't join them as a rookie manager did he?

What the majority of Naija fans truely deserve is a manager who would call up a completely unheard of Gabriel Okechukwu for an important qualifier and give him the no.10 shirt for a country as big in the game as Nigeria and leaves him on the bench! Then when his team starts crumbling he doesn't have to have the balls to bring him on. Haha

They deserve a manager who would play Seth Sincere in the heart of defence in an important qualifier instead of several other defenders supposedly well ahead of him in the pecking order ....and drop points in the process.

They deserve mangers who would call up Igobun and Onobi and leave out Mikel and Ighalo, as our African guardiola once did. obvious choices abi?

They deserve foreign managers only interested in managing their team in the world cup for 3 games and after losing out don't even bother returning with the team.

Thank God for Pinnick. With the man being more clever than the majority of fans I can continue to trust him to continue protecting you from yourselves.

NB: this is not a Rohr manifesto, just a reminder of where we were not very long ago and where we are now.

*Drops the mic*