When a pump or compressor motor picks up, they draw anywhere from 2 to 5 times their normal rated current for a few seconds after startup - this is what is called 'surge current' and you need an inverter capable of handling the surge.

Mustpower (e.g Felicity) is a good rugged and reliable brand - they have roughly 300% surge capability so a 3.5kva 24v should be able to handle your (1hp > 746watts × 3times surge) 2.24kw surge without trouble. Any of the MustPower - PowerStar IR or similar clones (transformer based) should do the job - I recommended Felicity because of their excellent after sales service.

If budget is not a constraint then you can go for the premium name brands but these usually cost a pretty penny.

anidat77:
Hello fellow DIYers....yesterday we lined up an alternate power line from my inverter to our sumo water pump I was told to be 1hp. At start up my 1.5kva inverter overload light came up and it shut down on the overload protection mode.
I know some guys here pump water effortlessly with their inverters so my question is which brand do you guys use.
Currently I use a 1.5kva Eco luminous inverter.
I'm skewed towards a prag or same luminous but with 24v battery bank source. But open to FTA advice.....not adverts

NiyiOmoIyunade:
If you must gamble and still want to mix old and new batteries then don't waste money on a solid brand like Quanta.



I think you have only 1 good battery out of 8 right now, if you can find 3 more decent ones in the bank, then manage till you can afford new.

I also think you need to review your battery management practices and load/usage profiles - even those crappy asian origin batteries would go up to a year before giving trouble if properly managed talk less of a decent brand like KungLong.

which of the batteries do you think is the only good one?? ...
2ndly confirm the maximum current draw one can safely take from a 400ah bank, methinks 60amps = abt 2400w is ok

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anidat77:
Hello fellow DIYers....yesterday we lined up an alternate power line from my inverter to our sumo water pump I was told to be 1hp. At start up my 1.5kva inverter overload light came up and it shut down on the overload protection mode.
I know some guys here pump water effortlessly with their inverters so my question is which brand do you guys use.
Currently I use a 1.5kva Eco luminous inverter.
I'm skewed towards a prag or same luminous but with 24v battery bank source. But open to FTA advice.....not adverts

Try Felicity, or mustpower/Vil series brands

NiyiOmoIyunade:
When a pump or compressor motor picks up, they draw anywhere from 2 to 5 times their normal rated current for a few seconds after startup - this is what is called 'surge current' and you need an inverter capable of handling the surge.

Mustpower (e.g Felicity) is a good rugged and reliable brand - they have roughly 300% surge capability so a 3.5kva 24v should be able to handle your (1hp > 746watts × 3times surge) 2.24kw surge without trouble. Any of the MustPower - PowerStar IR or similar clones (transformer based) should do the job - I recommended Felicity because of their excellent after sales service.

If budget is not a constraint then you can go for the premium name brands but these usually cost a pretty penny.

Thanx Guys...pls any advice on how these recommended inverters handle about 2 hrs use of the electric hot plate of approx 2kW. I hear some brands of inverters don't do well with hot plates. even while below maximum rated inverter capacity.

anidat77:
Hello fellow DIYers....yesterday we lined up an alternate power line from my inverter to our sumo water pump I was told to be 1hp. At start up my 1.5kva inverter overload light came up and it shut down on the overload protection mode.
I know some guys here pump water effortlessly with their inverters so my question is which brand do you guys use.
Currently I use a 1.5kva Eco luminous inverter.
I'm skewed towards a prag or same luminous but with 24v battery bank source. But open to FTA advice.....not adverts

u need to confirm d rating of d pump. i believe this is surface pump. if u still want to maintain d pump to run on inverter I think a 3kva 24v wl do with good head room. i only use 1.5kva Emel to handle 0.75hp borehole pump.
updated - I hope u switch off every other load b4 running d pump? of note is that I tried sukam 1.5kva for d borehole but could not carry it but the Emel carryam onetime

My suspicion is the balancers, from usage I have come to the conclusion that they cause more harm than good. Also , balancer tends to affect the charging process and mind you there is not verified evidence to show that longevity was actually increased by balancers for lead acid cells. If you look at the balancers for lithium, they do not move charge from strong to weak but rather it either stop charging the strong until the weak catches up or bleeds the charge of the strong to come down to same level as the weak.I am afraid all the batteries are gone.This time go for lithium or lead acid without balancers or desulphators

earthrealm:
smf/agm wahala, reason why i love fla.
so the bank ran down today, as low as 45v or so.
the 4 batts on the left are about 6-7months old, while the batts on the right are 3 to 4months old. each bank has 1 balancer+1 desulphator.

my theory is that batt 2 failed on left bank, and has inadvertently damaged batt 5 on right bank.
am proposing replacing both batts to try and salvage the situation, 2ndlly i intend deploying a copper bus bar.
all batts tested ok to a 100amp load tester few wks ago when fully charged.

am open to suggestions on how to prudently salvage this situation.
abeg ignore the crude display box

DMerciful:
My suspicion is the balancers, from usage I have come to the conclusion that they cause more harm than good. Also , balancer tends to affect the charging process and mind you there is not verified evidence to show that longevity was actually increased by balancers for lead acid cells. If you look at the balancers for lithium, they do not move charge from strong to weak but rather it either stop charging the strong until the weak catches up or bleeds the charge of the strong to come down to same level as the weak.I am afraid all the batteries are gone.This time go for lithium or lead acid without balancers or desulphators

omo, which kind yarns be this naaaau, balancer no good, desulphator no good.

reminds me of a setup i saw 2months ago, the person had 4 fla batts of different makes, and 4 quanta smf, hooked together in one bank!!!.
the owner no gree o, when i tod him how wrong his setup was, 1 mumu installer cum seller installed the sh.it for him last year with solar panels

anidat77:



Thanx Guys...pls any advice on how these recommended inverters handle about 2 hrs use of the electric hot plate of approx 2kW. I hear some brands of inverters don't do well with hot plates. even while below maximum rated inverter capacity.

Hot plate 2kw

Even if your inverter is capable, Only LifePo4 batteries can deliver that.. without stress..

What happened to cooking Gas

My friend has never used a battery balancer or desuphator but his battery life is just great. Surprisingly, he's using a chinko battery

Another Victron Ecosystem with BYD Lithium Battery Installation (with 10.8kWp Solar) is currently cooking, brought to you by ElektroPhaim Solar!

See the Solar Roof Plan and the Proposed wiring diagram for more information.

Stay tuned and we would update you.

Dam5reey:


Hot plate 2kw

Even if your inverter is capable, Only LifePo4 batteries can deliver that.. without stress..

What happened to cooking Gas

One of my 7 point agenda is to have a system that can power my split unit ac, pump my sumo and also boil egg from solar power , not all at once o.....how can we stay green when gas is more attractive and with the big boys in this forum running AC units on their setup...my small hot plate can't be rocket science

anidat77:


One of my 7 point agenda is to have a system that can power my split unit ac, pump my sumo and also boil egg from solar power , not all at once o.....how can we stay green when gas is more attractive and with the big boys in this forum running AC units on their setup...my small hot plate can't be rocket science

Nice one.. when cash is not the problem everything is possible..

earthrealm:


omo, which kind yarns be this naaaau, balancer no good, desulphator no good.

reminds me of a setup i saw 2months ago, the person had 4 fla batts of different makes, and 4 quanta smf, hooked together in one bank!!!.
the owner no gree o, when i tod him how wrong his setup was, 1 mumu

installer cum seller installed the sh.it for him last year with solar panels

JEHOVAH!!! egusi and obono together. chaiiii see combo �

anidat77:



Thanx Guys...pls any advice on how these recommended inverters handle about 2 hrs use of the electric hot plate of approx 2kW. I hear some brands of inverters don't do well with hot plates. even while below maximum rated inverter capacity.

2kw ke. for how long? odiquariski o. there is this low consuming hot plate somebody talked about last time. u can try that. uses customise pot. with that ur batrs are not stressed

idsolar:


2kw ke. for how long? odiquariski o. there is this low consuming hot plate somebody talked about last time. u can try that. uses customise pot. with that ur batrs are not stressed

The induction cookers are pretty good...besides I don't intend loading the system till the Sun is high above. That way I can always draw much needed solar input without total drain or dependence on my bank. But I haven't been offered any inverter brand looking from this cooking load angle...maybe the sellers here can tell us more about their recommended products before discount prices.....

My Oga nor b so o!

As we speak I am running 2 units of 1hp AC (LG Inverter ACs) in sitting room and bedroom + TV and sound system + Fridge and Water Dispenser [cold water only] - my combined load is just 1.6kw and if I have burst loads e.g iron & microwave that takes me over 2kw it's just for a few minutes perhaps 30 minutes max.

I am doing this on a 48v 800Ah bank where my C20 discharge rate is about 2kw. So running 2kw for 2 hours is Ok for my setup. If you have a smaller lead acid bank then you may want to recalibrate max loading appropriately. Occasional bursts are okay and even inevitable but not sustained overloading (most lead acid batteries are rated C20) and sustained overloading will certainly kill your batteries fast.

If you are running your 2kw hotplate when your panels have excess power relative to battery charging needs (absorption charging stage) then you will place no extra burden on the batteries if your panels are able to source that extra 2kw or at least a good part of it. You will literally be cooking your food with the sun

Any properly rated 3Kw and above inverter should be able to run a 2kw load with no issues - the Felicity 5kva (MustPower clone) should handle this load like a champ. The 5kva Axpert types (transformerless) are supposed to be able to handle these as well but your mileage may vary. Felicity also sells these Axpert types but I was still at their office last week and their sales rep was very skeptical that their Axpert clone could handle resistive loads (ditto for Zinox) although technically and based on reviews from Oga Barezzi and Pranil the reverse should be the case and these Axpert clones should run your 2kw hotplate with no trouble at all.

Personally, I like to load asian origin inverters no more than 70% of their rated capacity but for the premium names, you can happily load at 100% of rated capacity and have no worries.

anidat77:


One of my 7 point agenda is to have a system that can power my split unit ac, pump my sumo and also boil egg from solar power , not all at once o.....how can we stay green when gas is more attractive and with the big boys in this forum running AC units on their setup...my small hot plate can't be rocket science

I always advice C20 as the maximum safe discharge for a lead acid battery. For a 48v 400Ah bank, this would be 20amps or 1000watts max. At 2.4kw loads you would be burdening the battery almost 3 times what it was rated for.

earthrealm:


which of the batteries do you think is the only good one?? ...
2ndly confirm the maximum current draw one can safely take from a 400ah bank, methinks 60amps = abt 2400w is ok

You have 16 units of 12 volt 200 AH batteries. Simple Math. 16 x 12 volts x 200 AH = 38,400 watt hours period. You can arrange them as:

12 Volts: putting all 16 batteries in parallel strings which gives you 12 volts @ 3200 AH or 12 volts x 3200 AH = 38.400 Watt Hours

24 Volts: 2 in series and 8 parallel Strings which gives you 24 volts @ 1600 AH or 24 volts x 1600 AH = 38,400 Watt Hours

48 Volts: 4 in series and 4 parallel strings which gives you 48 volts @ 800 AH or 48 volts x 800 AH = 38,400 Watt Hours

96 Volts: 8 in series and 2 parallel strings which gives you 96 volts @ 400 AH or 96 Volts x 400 AH = 38,400 Watt Hours

192 Volts: All 16 in series which gives you 192 volts @ 200 AH or 196 volts x 200 AH = 38.400 Watt Hours.

See anything in common?

Series Voltage Adds
Parallel Current Adds
Power always adds. Every battery is 12 volts x 200 AH = 2400 watt hours. You have 16 of them or 16 x 2400 watt hours = 38,400 watt hours

Here is the bad news. The only good configuration is 196 volts. You really screwed up using parallel batteries. In about a year or less you will learn this lesson the good ole fashion way loosing lots of money when you have to replace the batteries. Don't make that mistake twice.



Saw this on an online forum and throwing it up to the Ogas in the house. Which do you believe is the best setup.

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NiyiOmoIyunade:
I always advice C20 as the maximum safe discharge for a lead acid battery. For a 48v 400Ah bank, this would be 20amps or 1000watts max. At 2.4kw loads you would be burdening the battery almost 3 times what it was rated for.

YEAH. adds up, i wonder if the true effects of surge/instantenous load spikes lasting upto 2mins have been investigated.
lets say i have an 800w load running, then an electric iron of 1kw kicks in, runs for 2mins or so..n goes off

2ndly, really curious at how you arrived at saying only 1 batt is still good in the lot.interested in knowing how you arrived at that conclusion.

3rdly this brings me to the issue of buying 2nd hand batts, its really a game of chance, cos if perhaps your analysis of my batt bank is true, an unscruplous person can simply bring them out and sell as neatly used batts 30k to 50k apiece!. they would pass any test thrown at them by any would be buyer, as they still behave superbly when fully charged

the attached pic, 5kva highpower inverter is at 40% load, which should be about 1500w, about 17amps is coming in from panels, the 2 batts i suspect as being damaged are even holding steady at 12.5v .
used battery buyers, i hail una o

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NiyiOmoIyunade:
I always advice C20 as the maximum safe discharge for a lead acid battery. For a 48v 400Ah bank, this would be 20amps or 1000watts max. At 2.4kw loads you would be burdening the battery almost 3 times what it was rated for.

200AH 12V should not be loaded more than 120watts..most AGM cannot all those 2 minutes Surge, It weakness the Cell faster than you think.. Imagine loading 60A on a 200AH..

For battery sizing purpose Divide total maximum load by 120w to know the number of batteries

2000watts/120 is 16 batteries minimum..

My office was changing batteries every 6months, we had 3.5Kw Inverter which runs at almost 70% on just 4 batteries.

You only enjoy these batteries when they enter Float every day..

Oshomo12:
Buying used batteries is similar to you crossing an eight lane high way blind folded(99% chances of it not ending well).

It's depends on source, Kiekie's Full river still working fine close to 2 years now..

His Ritar 100Ah(2 in parrallel) is firing as well.. 6 months after purchase..
see below, under load Batteries at 12.69V after sunset..
Lowest Voltage have seen is 12.4V after several hours.. batteries Float Every day

Anybody that relies on fancy battery meters which try to predict the battery profile via an algorithm or 15 secs load testers will very likely get misleading results.

2 minutes of burst loads should do no harm - remember battery charge and discharge are initially chemical reactions and the state changes ever so slowly.

I believe only the battery above 12v has any real hope - by allowing your battery bank to run down to 45v, you essentially did a sort of capacity test. All those batteries reading 8.3v and 10.5v are presumed dead because they were reading so low inspite of the balancer moving current into them. The 11.sumtns are borderline cases but definitely must have sulphated and lost capacity. The effect of having a mismatched battery bank only ever gets worse and worse for the weaker batteries.

For the attached picture, you were getting help (17amps) from your solar array at thesame time so you really can't tell anything useful about capacity from the battery voltage. The correct test protocol is to charge each battery to full individually, remove all charge sources and allow to rest for 2 to 12 hours and then discharge with a large load for at least 30 mins - I like to calibrate my load such that it would have run the battery down within 2 hours on a good day so that way I can dispense quickly with the test and also strain the battery enough for it to collapse under the stress if it is not a very healthy battery.

earthrealm:


YEAH. adds up, i wonder if the true effects of surge/instantenous load spikes lasting upto 2mins have been investigated.
lets say i have an 800w load running, then an electric iron of 1kw kicks in, runs for 2mins or so..n goes off

2ndly, really curious at how you arrived at saying only 1 batt is still good in the lot.interested in knowing how you arrived at that conclusion.

3rdly this brings me to the issue of buying 2nd hand batts, its really a game of chance, cos if perhaps your analysis of my batt bank is true, an unscruplous person can simply bring them out and sell as neatly used batts 30k to 50k apiece!. they would pass any test thrown at them by any would be buyer, as they still behave superbly when fully charged

the attached pic, 5kva highpower inverter is at 40% load, which should be about 1500w, about 17amps is coming in from panels, the 2 batts i suspect as being damaged are even holding steady at 12.5v .
used battery buyers, i hail una o

olaade21:
You have 16 units of 12 volt 200 AH batteries. Simple Math. 16 x 12 volts x 200 AH = 38,400 watt hours period. You can arrange them as:

12 Volts: putting all 16 batteries in parallel strings which gives you 12 volts @ 3200 AH or 12 volts x 3200 AH = 38.400 Watt Hours
24 Volts: 2 in series and 8 parallel Strings which gives you 24 volts @ 1600 AH or 24 volts x 1600 AH = 38,400 Watt Hours
48 Volts: 4 in series and 4 parallel strings which gives you 48 volts @ 800 AH or 48 volts x 800 AH = 38,400 Watt Hours
96 Volts: 8 in series and 2 parallel strings which gives you 96 volts @ 400 AH or 96 Volts x 400 AH = 38,400 Watt Hours
192 Volts: All 16 in series which gives you 192 volts @ 200 AH or 196 volts x 200 AH = 38.400 Watt Hours.

See anything in common?

Series Voltage Adds
Parallel Current Adds
Power always adds. Every battery is 12 volts x 200 AH = 2400 watt hours. You have 16 of them or 16 x 2400 watt hours = 38,400 watt hours

Here is the bad news. The only good configuration is 196 volts. You really screwed up using parallel batteries. In about a year or less you will learn this lesson the good ole fashion way loosing lots of money when you have to replace the batteries. Don't make that mistake twice.

Saw this on an online forum and throwing it up to the Ogas in the house. Which do you believe is the best setup.

I'm not an oga but I'll respond.
Firstly, I presume you meant 192V for the number in bold font.
Secondly, yes, a single string configuration is usually the most desirable but at times not cost-effective. Then the safety issues are more daunting in a high voltage DC setup. Arcing is very real and does nasty damage. Trust me on it.

For people whom run DC devices, 12V devices are the most abundant followed by 24V devices. 48VDC devices are not only scarcer but inordinately expensive as well. A lot of good gadgets simply don't come in 48V offerings. Now imagine seeking higher DC voltage gadgets.

Case scenario: consider having a 24V inverter with 6V 415AH x 4. You're starting fresh but starting somewhat big for a small home system, based on projected loads. Single string, beautiful performance. Life is looking good. Then, as solar enthusiasts are wont to do, you get restless - you want more juice. Upon the death (or switch) of your batteries, you want to double the bank capacity. The logical choice is a single string of 6v 415AH x 8 batteries and an inverter running 48VDC. An inverter change shouldn't be too much overhead to bear right? What if there are other peripherals running on 24V (pressing irons, floodlights, DC water pump, two DC-to-DC 24V-to-12V buck converters, and a few other DC devices? The single string option doesn't look so appealing now, does it? This is a real life scenario and that was one of my houses while I was living off-base. I eventually went 48VDC for forward compatibility with other devices in other locations but had to junk a lot of gadgets (very cost ineffective thus defeating the cost but not comfort effectiveness of solar). That's asides the fact that solar isn't really cost-effective in the first place. And before anyone suggests 48V-to-24V buck converters, I used them and they all failed, mostly under a year. They really hate switching devices.

No, he didn't screw up badly. While a 2-string bank is the only really reliable parallel bank out there, with good practices, you can comfortably run up to four parallel strings with minimal worry. Batteries are batteries and can go belly up even with good connection design. And beyond certain ampacities, it's all but impossible to maintain a single string. Such is the nature of lead-acid batteries.

I am interested in your load at 82w. What appliances did you have running at that time you took the pic?

Dam5reey:


It's depends on source, Kiekie's Full river still working fine close to 2 years now..

His Ritar 100Ah(2 in parrallel) is firing as well.. 6 months after purchase..
see below, under load Batteries at 12.69V after sunset..
Lowest Voltage have seen is 12.4V after several hours.. batteries Float Every day

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I am interested in your load at 82w. What appliances did you have running at that time you took the pic?

At that time
Sound system - music @ 80% Volume
TV 22" LED TV
Decoder
2 DC bulbs consuming only 5W
DC fan 10-15 watts
Phone Charging
Battery management rule other Loads should stick with phcn..

Saipro:

I'm not an oga but I'll respond.
Firstly, I presume you meant 192V for the number in bold font.
Secondly, yes, a single string configuration is usually the most desirable but at times not cost-effective. Then the safety issues are more daunting in a high voltage DC setup. Arcing is very real and does nasty damage. Trust me on it.

For people whom run DC devices, 12V devices are the most abundant followed by 24V devices. 48VDC devices are not only scarcer but inordinately expensive as well. A lot of good gadgets simply don't come in 48V offerings. Now imagine seeking higher DC voltage gadgets.

Case scenario: consider having a 24V inverter with 6V 415AH x 4. You're starting fresh but starting somewhat big for a small home system, based on projected loads. Single string, beautiful performance. Life is looking good. Then, as solar enthusiasts are wont to do, you get restless - you want more juice. Upon the death (or switch) of your batteries, you want to double the bank capacity. The logical choice is a single string of 6v 415AH x 8 batteries and an inverter running 48VDC. An inverter change shouldn't be too much overhead to bear right? What if there are other peripherals running on 24V (pressing irons, floodlights, DC water pump, two DC-to-DC 24V-to-12V buck converters, and a few other DC devices? The single string option doesn't look so appealing now, does it? This is a real life scenario and that was one of my houses while I was living off-base. I eventually went 48VDC for forward compatibility with other devices in other locations but had to junk a lot of gadgets (very cost ineffective thus defeating the cost but not comfort effectiveness of solar). That's asides the fact that solar isn't really cost-effective in the first place. And before anyone suggests 48V-to-24V buck converters, I used them and they all failed, mostly under a year. They really hate switching devices.

No, he didn't screw up badly. While a 2-string bank is the only really reliable parallel bank out there, with good practices, you can comfortably run up to four parallel strings with minimal worry. Batteries are batteries and can go belly up even with good connection design. And beyond certain ampacities, it's all but impossible to maintain a single string. Such is the nature of lead-acid batteries.

Beautiful. I like your explanation. What do you propose as the best home solution. 24v/48v, Series/Parallel for a 12v 200Ah battery setup.

Dam5reey:


It's depends on source, Kiekie's Full river still working fine close to 2 years now..

His Ritar 100Ah(2 in parrallel) is firing as well.. 6 months after purchase..
see below, under load Batteries at 12.69V after sunset..
Lowest Voltage have seen is 12.4V after several hours.. batteries Float Every day

Good stuff Boss! Glad to know your are enjoying your batteries 2 years counting .. I integrated mine with balancers and been working real good even on steady split AC , water pump, halogen oven, water heater, washing machine, refrigerator loads . Yet, batteries are still rocking for same number of years as yours . As I type , I have these loads listed below ON since 6pm
-30w led floodlight
-5w led
-55'android led TV
-Standing fan at max speed
-Samsung double door refrigerator
-7w ×12 led
-Phone charger

View attached snapshot of my battery voltage ...

Second snapshot shows refrigerator timer switch deactivated by 10:30pm, room split AC been running for 45min approximately. AC runs mostly within 25-28° overnight depending on weather, yet batteries don't go below 24v .. PHCH or not, no worries as I get within 55-65a mppt cc daily to float batteries back before dusk!

It has been green efficient energy all year round