it's aqeedah issue..
answer with dalil

The Quran is word of Arab man/men.

Just like every other mythical books existing in other religions and cultures.

tintingz:
The Quran is word of Arab man/men.

Just like every other mythical books existing in other religions and cultures.

laughing..this illogical kafir is here again

Abuheekmat:



laughing..this illogical kafir is here again

Kindly present logical evidence how an all knowing almighty God revealed books to humans existing in a tiny dust in the Milky Way galaxy? What make you think the Quran is not word of men?

Make me understand your logic regarding this.

Abuheekmat:
it's aqeedah issue..

answer with dalil

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal suffered prosecution and imprisonment up to 30 years due his stance against the statement and it can be traced back to the group called m'utazilla and the main propagator of this ideology was called Ahmad ibn Dua'ad. Ahmad ibn Dua'ad was able to corrupt the khilafah starting first with the khalifah called al-Mu'qtassim, he was able to convince al-Mu'qtassim to order the aqeedah of the Muslims to be changed by prosecuting scholars and forcing many to accept falsehood. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal refused to accept this, he accepted to face this trial all alone since other scholars have abdicated, he suffered severe punishment and hunger, he had a debate with ibn Dua'ad where he defeated him: He tried using the verse which Allah said: and We have sent down this Qur'an as a guidance... Imam Ahmad cut him off by saying Allah didn't say We created the Qur'an. Imams Ahmad was able to defend the honour of all the four holy books even after such trails. One night al-Mu'qtassim had a dream and he told Imam Ahmad what he saw, he said: I saw a dream where two lions were about to tear me apart then two angels descended from heaven and guarded the lions, then threatening me with the lions the angels took me to the prison cell where Imam Ahmad was locked up. Then the angels asked Imam Ahmad what does he have to say about the book of Allah, he(Imam Ahmad ) said: the word of Allah is uncreated. Then they asked where did you hear this from o Ahmad? He said I heard it from Abdulrazaq As-sana'ani: and the angels said bring Abdulrazaq As-sana'ani and he was asked what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said: the word of Allah is uncreated, the angels asked him where did you hear this from? He said I heard it Ma'amar. Then a voice said bring Ma'amar the he was brought forward then Allah's voice was present and Allah asked him what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked him where did you hear this from? He said I heard it from Imam Az-Zuhuri. Then Allah said bring Az-Zuhuri, Imam Az-zuhuri was brought forward and Allah asked him what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked him where did you hear this from? He said I heard it from 'Urwa ibn Zubair. Then Allah said bring 'Urwa here and he was brought forward and Allah asked him what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked him where did you hear this from? I heard it from Aisha bint Abubakar. Then Allah said bring Aisha, tgen Allah askedAisha R.A. what do you have to say about the book of Allah? She said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked here where did you hear this from? She said I heard it from RasululLah. Then Allah said bring Muhammad (S.A.W) here, then Muhammad S.A.W. was brought forward and Allah asked him o Muhammad what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah. where did you hear this from? He said I heard it from Jibril (A.S.) Then Allah said bring Jibril here then Jibril A.S. was brought forward and asked what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said Your words are uncreated. Allah asked him where did you hear this from? He said Al-lauhul Mahfuz(the preserved slate). Then Allah said bring Al-lauhul Mahfuz here, then Al-lauhul Mahfuz was brought forward and Allah asked Al-lauhul Mahfuz what do you have to say about the book of Allah Al-lauhul Mahfuz said your word is uncreated o Allah. Allah asked where did you hear this from? from Al-qalam (the pen). Then Allah said bring Al-qalam here, then Al-qalam was brought forward and asked what do you have to say about the book of Allah? Al-qalam said the book of Allah is uncreated, then Allah asked wheredid you hear this from? Al-qalam said from you o Allah. Then Allah said: Al-qalam is truthful and Allah is truthful and Jibril is truthful and Muhammad is truthful and Aisha is truthful and 'Urwa is truthful and Zuhuri is truthful and Ma'amar is truthful and Abdulrazaq is truthful and Ahmad is truthful. Then he let Imam Ahmad go, then Al-Mu'qtassim died and al-Wasiq took over and started the trials again, it was so o much that Imam Ahmad had to go into hiding. Then finally al-Wasiq died and al-Mutawwakil took over. Al-Mutawwakil was a good man, he prosecuted all the falsehood propagators and ended the trials and tribulations. Read the story of Imam Ahmad for more information. Sorry for the typos.

tintingz:
Kindly present logical evidence how an all knowing almighty God revealed books to humans existing in a tiny dust in the Milky Way galaxy? What make you think the Quran is not word of men?

Make me understand your logic regarding this.

I is not wiser to read the Qur'an for yourself so that you will have more logical evidence against the Muslims?

najib632:
I is not wiser to read the Qur'an for yourself so that you will have more logical evidence against the Muslims?

I was a Muslim, I've studied the Quran, so much myths and bad scientific approach which can never come from an all-knowing super-being.

tintingz:
I was a Muslim, I've studied the Quran, so much myths and bad scientific approach which can never come from an all-knowing super-being.

I don't believe you for saying this statement especially this phrase -"bad scientific approach"

najib632:
I don't believe you for saying this statement especially this phrase -"bad scientific approach"

Most of the stories in the Quran are copied stories from the Jewish mythology which are cultural mythologies.

The Quran also has bad scientific approach, I opened a thread asking this question, how true is this that humans are made up of clay?

https://www.nairaland.com/4856490/allah-created-humans-clay-sand

tintingz:
Most of the stories in the Quran are copied stories from the Jewish mythology which are cultural mythologies.

The Quran also has bad scientific approach, I opened a thread asking this question, how true is this that humans are made up of clay?

https://www.nairaland.com/4856490/allah-created-humans-clay-sand

Bro Read the Qur'an it's obvious that you haven't read since you're saying that

najib632:
Bro Read the Qur'an it's obvious that you haven't read since you're saying that

Do you believe humans body are made up of clay?

tintingz:
Do you believe humans body are made up of clay?

Yes, a human body is made from clay and then, it metamorphosed into something more advanced, just like animals are made out of water but they evolved into something more advanced.

najib632:
Yes, a human body is made from clay and then, it metamorphosed into something more advanced, just like animals are made out of water but they evolved into something more advanced.

Are you saying the human body is silicon base? Hope you know sand contains silicon.

najib632:
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal suffered prosecution and imprisonment up to 30 years due his stance against the statement and it can be traced back to the group called m'utazilla and the main propagator of this ideology was called Ahmad ibn Dua'ad. Ahmad ibn Dua'ad was able to corrupt the khilafah starting first with the khalifah called al-Mu'qtassim, he was able to convince al-Mu'qtassim to order the aqeedah of the Muslims to be changed by prosecuting scholars and forcing many to accept falsehood. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal refused to accept this, he accepted to face this trial all alone since other scholars have abdicated, he suffered severe punishment and hunger, he had a debate with ibn Dua'ad where he defeated him: He tried using the verse which Allah said: and We have sent down this Qur'an as a guidance... Imam Ahmad cut him off by saying Allah didn't say We created the Qur'an. Imams Ahmad was able to defend the honour of all the four holy books even after such trails. One night al-Mu'qtassim had a dream and he told Imam Ahmad what he saw, he said: I saw a dream where two lions were about to tear me apart then two angels descended from heaven and guarded the lions, then threatening me with the lions the angels took me to the prison cell where Imam Ahmad was locked up. Then the angels asked Imam Ahmad what does he have to say about the book of Allah, he(Imam Ahmad ) said: the word of Allah is uncreated. Then they asked where did you hear this from o Ahmad? He said I heard it from Abdulrazaq As-sana'ani: and the angels said bring Abdulrazaq As-sana'ani and he was asked what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said: the word of Allah is uncreated, the angels asked him where did you hear this from? He said I heard it Ma'amar. Then a voice said bring Ma'amar the he was brought forward then Allah's voice was present and Allah asked him what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked him where did you hear this from? He said I heard it from Imam Az-Zuhuri. Then Allah said bring Az-Zuhuri, Imam Az-zuhuri was brought forward and Allah asked him what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked him where did you hear this from? He said I heard it from 'Urwa ibn Zubair. Then Allah said bring 'Urwa here and he was brought forward and Allah asked him what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked him where did you hear this from? I heard it from Aisha bint Abubakar. Then Allah said bring Aisha, tgen Allah askedAisha R.A. what do you have to say about the book of Allah? She said your word is uncreated o Allah, then Allah asked here where did you hear this from? She said I heard it from RasululLah. Then Allah said bring Muhammad (S.A.W) here, then Muhammad S.A.W. was brought forward and Allah asked him o Muhammad what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said your word is uncreated o Allah. where did you hear this from? He said I heard it from Jibril (A.S.) Then Allah said bring Jibril here then Jibril A.S. was brought forward and asked what do you have to say about the book of Allah? He said Your words are uncreated. Allah asked him where did you hear this from? He said Al-lauhul Mahfuz(the preserved slate). Then Allah said bring Al-lauhul Mahfuz here, then Al-lauhul Mahfuz was brought forward and Allah asked Al-lauhul Mahfuz what do you have to say about the book of Allah Al-lauhul Mahfuz said your word is uncreated o Allah. Allah asked where did you hear this from? from Al-qalam (the pen). Then Allah said bring Al-qalam here, then Al-qalam was brought forward and asked what do you have to say about the book of Allah? Al-qalam said the book of Allah is uncreated, then Allah asked wheredid you hear this from? Al-qalam said from you o Allah. Then Allah said: Al-qalam is truthful and Allah is truthful and Jibril is truthful and Muhammad is truthful and Aisha is truthful and 'Urwa is truthful and Zuhuri is truthful and Ma'amar is truthful and Abdulrazaq is truthful and Ahmad is truthful. Then he let Imam Ahmad go, then Al-Mu'qtassim died and al-Wasiq took over and started the trials again, it was so o much that Imam Ahmad had to go into hiding. Then finally al-Wasiq died and al-Mutawwakil took over. Al-Mutawwakil was a good man, he prosecuted all the falsehood propagators and ended the trials and tribulations. Read the story of Imam Ahmad for more information. Sorry for the typos.

felt like hugging you omo iya.. 08134015464.. that's my number. hala on whatsapp

najib632:
Yes, a human body is made from clay and then, it metamorphosed into something more advanced, just like animals are made out of water but they evolved into something more advanced.

leave this ignorant with his dull brain .. philazuf ni

Abuheekmat:



leave this ignorant with his dull brain .. philazuf ni

Lol, ignorant?

Coming from someone who believes humans are made from sand(silica)?

You need to question the intelligence of the founder of your divine religious manuscripts.

tintingz:
Lol, ignorant?

Coming from someone who believes humans are made from sand(silica)?

You need to question the intelligence of the founder of your divine religious manuscripts.

like I said, if not that you see that human beings are being given birth to..

you would say we sprung out of the land or perhaps we fall down from the sky

tintingz:
I was a Muslim, I've studied the Quran, so much myths and bad scientific approach which can never come from an all-knowing super-being.

@ Bold, which school did you "study" the Quran?! Who's your teacher?! How many years did you use in "studying" the Quran under your teacher?! Can you even speak the language of the Quran?! Do you know about Uloom Tafseer?! What about Asbaab Nuzool?!



See how you are making empty claims and had it been someone had made similar claims, you would have pointed out the type of fallacy the person made. It is so sad you are blind to your fallacies.


Be humble towards the truth, you can't learn anything while making such bogus claims or believing you already know about the Quran. Guidance is for those who are sincere and submissive to the truth when it comes to them.



Allah's aid is sought.

Abuheekmat:



like I said, if not that you see that human beings are being given birth to..

you would say we sprung out of the land or perhaps we fall down from the sky

This is strawman.

This is about evolution vs creation.

Evolution points that humans are carbon based life form.

Creation points that humans are Silicon based(God created man from clay).

Again before you attack strawman, did you believe man is made from clay?

lanrexlan:


@ Bold, which school did you "study" the Quran?! Who's your teacher?! How many years did you use in "studying" the Quran under your teacher?! Can you even speak the language of the Quran?! Do you know about Uloom Tafseer?! What about Asbaab Nuzool?!



See how you are making empty claims and had it been someone had made similar claims, you would have pointed out the type of fallacy the person made. It is so sad you are blind to your fallacies.


Be humble towards the truth, you can't learn anything while making such bogus claims or believing you already know about the Quran. Guidance is for those who are sincere and submissive to the truth when it comes to them.



Allah's aid is sought.

Lol, you don't even know me that much yet you are asking those questions, well it's a good one.

I've studied the Quran in Arabic, I might not be all that good in Arabic but I sure have Arabic knowledge. Maybe I should introduce you to my father.

Now that's not even the context in my premise, when I said I have studied the Quran, I meant I've studied the stories in the Quran if they are historical or myths, if the scientific claims in the Quran are accurate or just some ancient thinking survey which the latter can never come from a divine entity, the morality and irrationality in the Quran.

Now from my research, the Quran is no different from other mythological books, many of the claims in the Quran are already established or known before the Quran exist, there is nothing unique about the book.

tintingz:
I was a Muslim, I've studied the Quran, so much myths and bad scientific approach which can never come from an all-knowing super-being.

What are you now? Atheist

Demmzy15 this ur Boda Taiwo done finally comot.

FriendNG:


What are you now? Atheist

Demmzy15 this ur Boda Tayo done finally comot.

I'm an atheist, so you don't know all this while?

And it's not Tayo, it's Taiwo.

tintingz:
I'm an atheist, so you don't know all this while?

I Know you're behaving like 1 but you still perform prayer and fast at that time. So I give you be benefit of doubts.

Are your family awear or na hide u dey hide.

FriendNG:


What are you now? Atheist

Demmzy15 this ur Boda Taiwo done finally comot.

Since o, the guy don comot tey tey

FriendNG:


I Know you're behaving like 1 but you still perform prayer and fast at that time. So I give you be benefit of doubts.

Are your family awear or na hide u dey hide.

It's still something I keep to myself(for many reasons) except for Nairaland , the only person that know is my twin brother, my friends only know I'm skeptic.

tintingz:
Lol, you don't even know me that much yet you are asking those questions, well it's a good one.

Your claims prompted me to ask those questions. Yet still, you shy away from most of the questions.

tintingz:
I've studied the Quran in Arabic, I might not be all that good in Arabic but I sure have Arabic knowledge.

We said he hasn't studied the Quran and he went on to complicate things by claiming he has studied the Quran in Arabic. Mister, what you were taught is what everyone is first exposed to i.e. How to read the Quran in Arabic.

That's not tantamount to studying the Quran in Arabic. Not even close. Which Arabic knowledge? Iddadiyah or Thanawiyyah?
Or like this

tintingz:
I'm proudly Kufar.

https://www.nairaland.com/4874547/dreams-dream-interpretation#73430041

With the above, your Arabic knowledge is questionable.

tintingz:
Maybe I should introduce you to my father.

You keep clinging to this weak rope and committing fallacy. Your father might be a sheikh of Islamic studies, that's not tantamount to you knowing what he knows. Prophet Nuh was a messenger, yet his kid NEVER benefited from his knowledge nor guidance.
We know sheikhs of the highest order whose kids are shame to them. These kids know nothing as regards to the deen. (May Allah guide them and us)

Knowledge is acquired by learning and studying, it is NEVER inherited. Stop hiding under this "My father is this, my dad is that".

tintingz:
Now that's not even the context in my premise, when I said I have studied the Quran, I meant I've studied the stories in the Quran if they are historical or myths, if the scientific claims in the Quran are accurate or just some ancient thinking survey which the latter can never come from a divine entity, the morality and irrationality in the Quran.

Where did you study? Through "sheikh Google"?! Through atheistic websites?!

People who were sincere with their study like Keith Moore and Maurice Bucaille learnt Arabic before they even studied the scientific claims of the Quran. These are people with the high qualifications as regards to science and they were sincere with themselves.

Here you are, at one corner of your room, saying that you have studied the stories of the Quran without knowing the basics that are required to study them. Smh

Dear brother, humble yourself for knowledge. Make sincere your intention and seek knowledge through the right channels. Perhaps, Allah will guide you back to Islam through your sincerity. (If sincerity of intention still exists in your dictionary)

tintingz:
Now from my research, the Quran is no different from other mythological books, many of the claims in the Quran are already established or known before the Quran exist, there is nothing unique about the book.

Which research? The lazy man approach research?! This is just arrogance towards the truth, trying to paint yourself as an authority who has studied the Quran. Nah! You aren't.

I won't go into details as regards to the claims of the Quran, we have been there before and your replies were off points.

Believe what you want to believe, Allah is a watcher over His slaves. Guidance is from Him and it is for those who are sincere and humble towards the truth.



Peace

FriendNG:


I Know you're behaving like 1 but you still perform prayer and fast at that time. So I give you be benefit of doubts.

Are your family awear or na hide u dey hide.

lanrexlan:
Your claims prompted me to ask those questions. Yet still, you shy away from most of the questions.

Kindly mention the ones I missed?

We said he hasn't studied the Quran and he went on to complicate things by claiming he has studied the Quran in Arabic. Mister, what you were taught is what everyone is first exposed to i.e. How to read the Quran in Arabic.

That's not tantamount to studying the Quran in Arabic. Not even close. Which Arabic knowledge? Iddadiyah or Thanawiyyah?
Or like this

Now you're begin to attack fallacy the strawman fallacy, my original premise was I've studied the Quran, you quoted me saying do i even study the language of the Quran and I replied yes I've but might not be all good in it and you came up which Arabic? Dude seriously?

How does this negate that I've knowledge of Arabic?

Kindly stop attacking strawman.

Studying Arabic or not doesn't prove anything to be true, it's like saying a British man studying yoruba proves Odu-Ifa or Obatala to be true, no it doesn't.

Does studying Arabic proves the clay creation is true or Noah's flood story is true or Moses exodus story to be true and many others?

https://www.nairaland.com/4874547/dreams-dream-interpretation#73430041

With the above, your Arabic knowledge is questionable.

Lol, how it's pronounced doesnt negate it meaning.

http://www.muslimasoasis.com/true-meaning-kufar/

Kafir, Kufar, Kufr whatever it is still boils down to unbelieve.

You keep clinging to this weak rope and committing fallacy. Your father might be a sheikh of Islamic studies, that's not tantamount to you knowing what he knows. Prophet Nuh was a messenger, yet his kid NEVER benefited from his knowledge nor guidance.
We know sheikhs of the highest order whose kids are shame to them. These kids know nothing as regards to the deen. (May Allah guide them and us)

Where did I mention anything about knowing what he knows? Who's now committing fallacy?

I only said "let me introduce you to my father" so you can know where I'm coming from. Stop comparing me to other children's sheikh, you don't even know me that much so it's fallacious to project who I was.

A child of a Shiekh must have knowledge of his/her religion(not necessary devoted) except he/she wasn't raised by his parents.

Knowledge is acquired by learning and studying, it is NEVER inherited. Stop hiding under this "My father is this, my dad is that".

Religion is taught to children by parents or let's say indoctrinated.

Yes Knowledge is not inherited, no where I mentioned it is.

Where did you study? Through "sheikh Google"?! Through atheistic websites?!

Lol, so if i study the Quran stories from a sheikh, does it prove it historical evidence?

I studied the Quran-story claims from independent sources, are there any archeological evidence of the claims in the Quran? What about the similar myth in other cultures founded in the Quran?

Step out from the four walls of your religion and start reading books from independent sources.

People who were sincere with their study like Keith Moore and Maurice Bucaille learnt Arabic before they even studied the scientific claims of the Quran. These are people with the high qualifications as regards to science and they were sincere with themselves.

They have been debunked many times.

Keith Moore was funded by Saudi Arabia, huge $$$ in his account, and to my suprise the dude is still not a muslim despite his claims, so why should anyone be convinced?

Maurice Bucaille about Pharaoh mummy is a huge joke, first of all it is well known Pharaohs are kept and thier bodies are preserved, secondly there is no mention of which Pharaoh was in exodus, there's no historical evidence of a Pharaoh chasing some Jews. Dude was also funded $$$ by Saudi Arabia.

Here you are, at one corner of your room, saying that you have studied the stories of the Quran without knowing the basics that are required to study them. Smh

Lol, I'm not a scientists or archeologists, there are books of various fields regarding this.

The Quran copied most stories of the Jewish mythology, most of the stories are not historical.

Dear brother, humble yourself for knowledge. Make sincere your intention and seek knowledge through the right channels. Perhaps, Allah will guide you back to Islam through your sincerity. (If sincerity of intention still exists in your dictionary)

Can you mention the right channels to seek for knowledge?

Which research? The lazy man approach research?! This is just arrogance towards the truth, trying to paint yourself as an authority who has studied the Quran. Nah! You aren't.

Lol, painting myself as an authority who as studied the Quran?, where are all this coming from?

I'm very sure you haven't stepped out to research about the stories in the Quran, you're just making some psychological projection about me.

Start doing research about the stories in the Quran, I mean independent research not the one you read from Islamic site or books.

I won't go into details as regards to the claims of the Quran, we have been there before and your replies were off points.

Wow, I will like to know where the "off points" is.

Believe what you want to believe, Allah is a watcher over His slaves. Guidance is from Him and it is for those who are sincere and humble towards the truth.



Peace

Why do you believe Allah is the watcher or Guidance not Brahma?

whoever is replying this kafir guy is making jest of islam. . just leave him to his dolal.

lanrexlan:

Lol, I like the meme tho.

It's better to keep my position to myself when I know the result if I let them know.

There's no reward of sort in letting my religious family know my position, it will only results to hatred and rejection, thank goodness I'm not in Saudi Arabia.

My position will be known when the time comes.

Abuheekmat:
whoever is replying this kafir guy is making jest of islam. . just leave him to his dolal.

Me and Lanre are good friends tho.

I've watched videos of intelligent muslims debating non-believers, I don't think it's an issue.

tintingz:
Me and Lanre are good friends tho.

I've watched videos of intelligent muslims debating non-believers, I don't think it's an issue.

only a foolish person Will debate with a kafir. even the best human being to walk the � never did have debate with kafir