The way I see it. You’re afraid of challenges to our ideology. It shouldn’t be this way. We shouldn’t be afraid of discussion with others.

Discussion or persecution?


Have you being seeing Christians on our thread?

SlaveryWorks:
The way I see it. You’re afraid of challenges to our ideology. It shouldn’t be this way. We shouldn’t be afraid of discussion with others.

You have no idea of the history of this section. Your question should be directed to the owner of this forum.

Rashduct4luv:
Discussion or persecution?


Have you being seeing Christians on our thread?

Just discussion. Persecution is impossible online. If ones feels persecuted, they can just walk away from the screen. I have been visiting several other sites similar to this recently, some with extremely spirited debate, and if you disregard some of the more terrible outliers, the debate topics have been fantastic. One of these conversations involved the creation of ‘safe spaces’ in American colleges. A certain sub sect of these college goers refer to themselves as SJW’s, who are the ones that require these ‘safe spaces’ where they can introduce their ideas without negative responses. I asked about these places, studied them. It’s a place to go without criticism. A intriguing concept. In practice though, it leaves those who require these ‘safe spaces’ with an inability to defend and evolve their ideas and paths of thought. Inevitably, once they’re forced to confront any opposition, they break down and often resort to violence against others and themselves. Like a microsystem that is introduced to a virus for the first time, rather than be inoculated against their perceived threats from conventional conversations. I see this as a good parallel to the Muslim only spaces here. Isn’t it better to be prepared to defend faith and ideology through general discussion? I feel that it is in this case. Your thoughts?

tbaba1234:


You have no idea of the history of this section. Your question should be directed to the owner of this forum.

My question will be directed to whomever chooses to reply. If you don’t like it you’re free to make your own topics. Nobody is forcing you to reply to me.

tbaba1234:


You have no idea of the history of this section. Your question should be directed to the owner of this forum.

You only reinforce the stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant. There is absolutely zero reason there should be a safe space for Muslims on Nairaland. If Christians offend you so much, you need to get over yourself. I'm an atheist myself and direct pretty much all my posts towards Christians (as most other atheists) on Nairaland. Yet, Christians seem to be able to take the banter. Muslims as always are incapable of such open discourse.

Obi1kenobi:


You only reinforce the stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant. There is absolutely zero reason there should be a safe space for Muslims on Nairaland. If Christians offend you so much, you need to get over yourself. I'm an atheist myself and direct pretty much all my posts towards Christians (as most other atheists) on Nairaland. Yet, Christians seem to be able to take the banter. Muslims as always are incapable of such open discourse.

What are you talking about?

Again, you have zero clue about the history of this section.

It was not muslims who requested for the rules. In fact, it was resisted most strongly by the muslims. What we have now was better than what the owner started.

tbaba1234:


What are you talking about?

Again, you have zero clue about the history of this section.

It was not muslims who requested for the rules. In fact, it was resisted most strongly by the muslims. What we have now was better than what the owner started.

I've been on Nairaland since 2010. So what was this seismic event that made the admin create a safe space for Muslims alone: the only board/sub-forum on the entire Nairaland forum that is a safe space for one group? What happened?

Obi1kenobi:


I've been on Nairaland since 2010. So what was this seismic event that made the admin create a safe space for Muslims alone: the only board/sub-forum on the entire Nairaland forum that is a safe space for one group? What happened?

That you have been here since 2010 does not mean you are aware of everything

You were probably unaware of when the owner of nairaland made even front page article inaccessible to the public. There was a big protest by muslims that led to what you have today. The whole thing led to the exodus of muslims from this section. Many of the regular posters don't post here again.

Obi1kenobi:


You only reinforce the stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant. There is absolutely zero reason there should be a safe space for Muslims on Nairaland. If Christians offend you so much, you need to get over yourself. I'm an atheist myself and direct pretty much all my posts towards Christians (as most other atheists) on Nairaland. Yet, Christians seem to be able to take the banter. Muslims as always are incapable of such open discourse.

Not that guy but Christians don’t offend me.

tbaba1234:


That you have been here since 2010 does not mean you are aware of everything

You were probably unaware of when the owner of nairaland made even front page article inaccessible to the public. There was a big protest by muslims that led to what you have today. The whole thing led to the exodus of muslims from this section. Many of the regular posters don't post here again.

I’m curious as to how this played out. Where can I find information on this event?

SlaveryWorks:


I’m curious as to how this played out. Where can I find information on this event?

Read this

udatso:

Even though there might be some very few truth in what you said. I think you have mixed some things up. On Islam for Muslim section there are two major events that happened and somehow you are mixing the two.

The first was creation of the Islam for Muslim thread. Though I wasn't active on nairaland when it happened but I heard beer parlor rumor of se.un was issued fatwa and a threat to his life made him create a separate section for Muslims.....this was never confirmed as he never denied it nor affirmed it. I believe you are a reasonable person and taking rumoured gossip as fact is beneath you

The second was the creation of oath on Muslim threads. I witnessed this and please bear it in mind that Muslims never asked se.un to place oath on our threads.

There are some events that eventually lead to this.
It so happened that many Christians derived joy in insulting all that the Muslims hold dear.....As a result strict rules and regulations were placed to avoid chaos....It happened that while the Christian mods were too flexible with implementing the rules by punishing offenders, the then Muslim mod was far from that. He ensured that once you break the rules , he places ban on you that ranges from month to years.(quiet commendable I must say). During this era, we had some peace as many knew not to mess up in the Islam section.

However some aggrieved parties complained to se.un about the ban and to the dismay of the Muslims, their topics no longer grace the fp. When we asked for reason from such actions, he replied that it's safer he doesn't put our topics on fp so the bigots can avoid our topics......but it still wasn't enough as fp or not, they would always misbehave. He actually said the Muslim mods agreed to his decision which they denied. So Muslims further complained to se.un to return their topics back to fp as punishing those offended was the wrong way to do things.


The height of it all was one idiot went to Islam thread and posted pornographic pictures there...
After much consideration and suggestions were made from Muslims, se.un said that he would think of what to do....
Our topics returned to fp thereafter the oath was placed.....

I have to admit that to some extent the oath has helped kicked out some bigots away from Islam section but there are actually those who would still falsely take oath just to insult Muhammad (pbuh) or Allah or anything about Islam
...
@melody9,.1
After the oath was placed many Muslims especially those who knew of what transpired would hardly go to the religion section just to cause trouble.

Years passed. And many more users joined nairaland who saw the oath an injustice without knowing what led to it. And at such they would insult Muslims as if the oath was placed by them. Some New Muslims on nairaland in their quest to revenge would gladly go to their threads and return the favour.

But let's be honest here and I believe athiest or non muslim and non Christians can attest to the fact that when it comes to nairaland posts, Christians are much more intolerant. Even posts that talk about zakat (a major pillar of Islam that has absolutely nothing to do with Christians) you would see them either talking about how Jesus is lord and God and how Muslims are doomed to hell...the more foolish ones will just insult the Muslims, or the prophet or even Allah.
Honestly if we are to talk about hate messages against either religion, Christians top.

This is the thread the brother is talking about.

https://www.nairaland.com/1579129/request-islamic-threads-frontpage

Unfortunately, most replies were lost during Nairaland tsunami.

Thank you. I’m going through it now.

tbaba1234:


That you have been here since 2010 does not mean you are aware of everything

You were probably unaware of when the owner of nairaland made even front page article inaccessible to the public. There was a big protest by muslims that led to what you have today. The whole thing led to the exodus of muslims from this section. Many of the regular posters don't post here again.

So basically from what I've read:
1) Christians ceaselessly trolled Muslim articles
2) Some Muslims displeased with this probably threatened Seun. Or at least exerted sufficient pressure for him to put up walls for non-Muslims trying to access the Muslim forum.
3) In addition to this, he then sought to isolate the Muslim section from the rest of the forum, including making the frontpage - which drew a backlash from Muslims displeased with this.
4) A final compromise was then reached requiring you to basically swear allegiance to the faith of Islam to comment on Muslim threads.

What I am still struggling to figure out is why this upheaval didn't occur on the Christian forum. Like I said, for several atheists, that is where we like to interact and we are uninhibited in our ceaseless mockery of Christianity, the Bible and Bible figures, pastors etc. No matter how blasphemous we get in our critiques of Christianity, it's very easily tolerated. Why doesn't the Christian forum devolve to this chaos that requires it to be made a safe space?

I'm making a value judgement here, but as I said earlier, I believe Christians here are a little more tolerant of criticism than the Muslims. This is also why they spend all their time arguing with each other (Catholics vs Protestants, Orthodox vs Pentecostals, everybody vs Jehovah's Witnesses etc), or arguing with atheists, while I've observed Muslims would often avoid any such engagement and are more sensitive to blasphemous speech.

SlaveryWorks:


Just discussion. Persecution is impossible online. If ones feels persecuted, they can just walk away from the screen. I have been visiting several other sites similar to this recently, some with extremely spirited debate, and if you disregard some of the more terrible outliers, the debate topics have been fantastic. One of these conversations involved the creation of ‘safe spaces’ in American colleges. A certain sub sect of these college goers refer to themselves as SJW’s, who are the ones that require these ‘safe spaces’ where they can introduce their ideas without negative responses. I asked about these places, studied them. It’s a place to go without criticism. A intriguing concept. In practice though, it leaves those who require these ‘safe spaces’ with an inability to defend and evolve their ideas and paths of thought. Inevitably, once they’re forced to confront any opposition, they break down and often resort to violence against others and themselves. Like a microsystem that is introduced to a virus for the first time, rather than be inoculated against their perceived threats from conventional conversations. I see this as a good parallel to the Muslim only spaces here. Isn’t it better to be prepared to defend faith and ideology through general discussion? I feel that it is in this case. Your thoughts?

Not really. Persecution is possible anywhere. Infact the non-muslims on the Muslim section have no mission there than to abuse Islam, derail the thread, etc and will most time misinterpret texts to suit their claim.

Obi1kenobi:


You only reinforce the stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant. There is absolutely zero reason there should be a safe space for Muslims on Nairaland. If Christians offend you so much, you need to get over yourself. I'm an atheist myself and direct pretty much all my posts towards Christians (as most other atheists) on Nairaland. Yet, Christians seem to be able to take the banter. Muslims as always are incapable of such open discourse.

SlaveryWorks:


I’m curious as to how this played out. Where can I find information on this event?

Hello, I have been here since 2012 (under a different username)

Tbaba and Lanrexlan will tell lies to defend islam. It is their way.


The simple truth is that the islam section was created for the safety of non-muslims. The simple fact is that many muslims on nairaland cannot deal with criticism of their religion. The owner of Nairaland received an islamic death threat and that is why he created the islamic section- a place for muslims to talk without criticism.

In the owner's own words-
"The Islam section was created for security reasons, to protect non-muslims from the risk of violence, and not to promote Islam."
https://www.nairaland.com/1414032/what-make-seuns-comment-islam


The owner of Nairaland correctly decided to block muslim topics from the frontpage since the muslims enjoyed segregation. But muslims like Tbaba who wanted to eat their cake and have it, threatened the owner, who then reversed his decision.

The oath on the islamic section came as a second security measure for keeping christians from criticising islam on the islamic section.



Do not be deceived by Tbaba and his cohorts. They fought for the islam section to be separate.

Actions speak louder than words. Invite Tbaba and his cohorts for debates on islam and see how they dodge. They cannot take criticism.

Rashduct4luv:


Not really. Persecution is possible anywhere. Infact the non-muslims on the Muslim section have no mission there than to abuse Islam, derail the thread, etc and will most time misinterpret texts to suit their claim.

I’m curious as to how you’re aware of the adgenda of others. Could it be that you don’t speak the truth now? I think that’s the case. I don’t see how you could be aware of another persons motives, let alone groups of different people. I counter that you’re simply the type of person who sees persecution everywhere. I have encountered this in my travels and urge you to develop a different mindset.

lanrexlan:


Read this



This is the thread the brother is talking about.

https://www.nairaland.com/1579129/request-islamic-threads-frontpage

Unfortunately, most replies were lost during Nairaland tsunami.

So did the owner receive a death threat? The writer of this propaganda piece conviently glosses over any negative connotations and is vague on details. The thread you linked was interesting, however it’s fairly short and leaves me with more questions than answers. I’m going to gather a couple more facts before I conclude my assessment.

SlaveryWorks:


I’m curious as to how you’re aware of the adgenda of others. Could it be that you don’t speak the truth now? I think that’s the case. I don’t see how you could be aware of another persons motives, let alone groups of different people. I counter that you’re simply the type of person who sees persecution everywhere. I have encountered this in my travels and urge you to develop a different mindset.

I have my kinda mindset and you have yours! If i am not disturbing you i don't think you should disturb me.

You need to first check the Muslim threads posted to the front page before your next comment.

SlaveryWorks:


So did the owner receive a death threat? The writer of this propaganda piece conviently glosses over any negative connotations and is vague on details. The thread you linked was interesting, however it’s fairly short and leaves me with more questions than answers. I’m going to gather a couple more facts before I conclude my assessment.

To the first question, I don't know. The thread is short cos of the loss of nairaland data back then. The thread reached over 15 pages then.

The summary of the thread is what I posted from the writer. Since you have decided to call it a propaganda, there's a little I can to help.

Good luck with your findings.

Rashduct4luv:


I have my kinda mindset and you have yours! If i am not disturbing you i don't think you should disturb me.

You need to first check the Muslim threads posted to the front page before your next comment.

While I agree with your first statement, your second is contradictory to the first and you cannot command me to do anything, however, suggestions are always welcome. You’re certainly not disturbing me. I’m here for conversation and viewpoints. Whether they’re in line with, or opposed to my own.

Obi1kenobi:


So basically from what I've read:
1) Christians ceaselessly trolled Muslim articles
2) Some Muslims displeased with this probably threatened Seun. Or at least exerted sufficient pressure for him to put up walls for non-Muslims trying to access the Muslim forum.
3) In addition to this, he then sought to isolate the Muslim section from the rest of the forum, including making the frontpage - which drew a backlash from Muslims displeased with this.
4) A final compromise was then reached requiring you to basically swear allegiance to the faith of Islam to comment on Muslim threads.

What I am still struggling to figure out is why this upheaval didn't occur on the Christian forum. Like I said, for several atheists, that is where we like to interact and we are uninhibited in our ceaseless mockery of Christianity, the Bible and Bible figures, pastors etc. No matter how blasphemous we get in our critiques of Christianity, it's very easily tolerated. Why doesn't the Christian forum devolve to this chaos that requires it to be made a safe space?

I'm making a value judgement here, but as I said earlier, I believe Christians here are a little more tolerant of criticism than the Muslims. This is also why they spend all their time arguing with each other (Catholics vs Protestants, Orthodox vs Pentecostals, everybody vs Jehovah's Witnesses etc), or arguing with atheists, while I've observed Muslims would often avoid any such engagement and are more sensitive to blasphemous speech.

Essentially, from what I gather you are correct in your assessment. I’ve been digging through past threads and while I don’t have all the information, I believe I have enough to wrap it up for me.

SlaveryWorks:


Essentially, from what I gather you are correct in your assessment. I’ve been digging through past threads and while I don’t have all the information, I believe I have enough to wrap it up for me.

So what is your conclusion?

JeromeBlack:


So what is your conclusion?

-Everyone gets along

-Trolls troll Muslims as they troll all other Religions

-Muslim Mod(s) (I’m unclear at this point whether it’s one or several) brings down the banhammer

-Due to bans, traffic drops

-Drop in traffic to Muslim threads cause them to no longer be on the front page, ad revenue suffers

-People complain, possibly even threaten other users over this

-In an effort to protect the community of the site in general, Muslims are segregated from the general population

-This does not increase traffic, as front page threads are determined by a pre set algorithm, those that generate revenue from ads move to more crowded topics

-?

-Profit

Ultimately I feel as if it is a loss. Searching through some of the other Religious threads reveals stories of acceptance and occasionally conversion. While the implementation of ‘the oath’ is good on paper, in practice I feel it keeps those who might be curious, away. While we have a safe space free from trolls, I personally feel it would have been better to ignore the ninety nine who seek to mock and accept the one who was seeking guidance, rather than bar them all.

Please let me know if I’m missing anything that you’re aware of.

Hmmm

What Seu.n did was good and smart one, but I still think the Islam for Muslim section should be open like it was before so as other faiths, people can come in to learn, discuss and debate. The section is now like an abandoned planet.

People should learn to take criticism, and if someone go against the rules of the forum, he/she should be sanctioned.

tintingz:
What Seu.n did was good and smart one, but I still think the Islam for Muslim section should be open like it was before so as other faiths, people can come in to learn, discuss and debate. The section is now like an abandoned planet.

People should learn to take criticism, and if someone go against the rules of the forum, he/she should be sanctioned.

Islam has the worst record amongst religions when it come to handling criticism. Have you noticed that there are hardly any islamic comedians? If there are, they are few in the west!

Funny thread

tintingz:
What Seu.n did was good and smart one, but I still think the Islam for Muslim section should be open like it was before so as other faiths, people can come in to learn, discuss and debate. The section is now like an abandoned planet.

People should learn to take criticism, and if someone go against the rules of the forum, he/she should be sanctioned.

Bro, where are you?

whitelotus:



Bro, where are you?

I'm here.

HMmmmmm
I have been away for quite some time and this issue is still being debated?

udatso:
HMmmmmm
I have been away for quite some time and this issue is still being debated?

Shouldn't it be debated