MuttleyLaff:


Once you start down the slippery slope of self-destruction, like frosbel2 has, it is going to be very difficult to climb off it
luvmijeje, dont do follow-follow with frosbel2.
Please dont dig yourself a hole, you cant climb out of

Retrace your steps to find out where you've got it all wrong.
Go study the bible and learn about temple of the heart, about worship in spirit and truth etcetera

frosbel2:
You are asking her to go and study a book which your ancestors for thousands upon thousand of years knew nothing of , yet they were more noble, honest and upright than all your rascal pastors and men of God put together

frosbel2:
The bible is not inerrant, it is full of myths and fables and some truth , but cannot be said to be the word of God in its entirety. Get out of your religions delusion and do something beneficial for mankind.

frosbel2:
You are asking her to go and study a book which your ancestors for thousands upon thousand of years knew nothing of , yet they were more noble, honest and upright than all your rascal pastors and men of God put together.

The bible is not inerrant, it is full of myths and fables and some truth , but cannot be said to be the word of God in its entirety. Get out of your religions delusion and do something beneficial for mankind.

BluntBoy:
MuttleyLaff and Luvmijeje, you people should just let go.

I have a feeling that there is more to your quarrels than meets the eye. Are you in love with each other

luvmijeje:
He knew nothing about the Bible and I'm here to teach him.

BluntBoy:
MuttleyLaff and Luvmijeje, you people should just let go.

I have a feeling that there is more to your quarrels than meets the eye. Are you in love with each other

luvmijeje:
There's nothing o. He just couldn't take it that a woman more smarter than him just whip his ass. They are many on this platform.

MuttleyLaff:
Is it my fault you are infoxicated?
Is it my fault that thoroughly reading through content is a challenge for you?
Is it my fault now, that you don't know that the disciples were tested whilst on a training mission, first, the 12 to the Jews and afterwards the 70, to Jews and Gentiles alike?
Is it my fault you fail to accept and agree that Jesus said, follow me, I'll teach you to be fishers of men?

You are full of bullshit, you need having an enema.

MuttleyLaff:
You 're a trickster,
you'll try every trick in the bag,
even the sexist one. SMH.

luvmijeje:
For you to to have quoted Ezekiel, then it shouldn't take you anything to quote where it was stated in the Bible that they were on a training session.

luvmijeje:
You know it deep down in your mind that it's true.

MuttleyLaff:
Olodo rapata ni woman to
This woman is dense.
I quoted a different version of Ezekiel, I knew you wouldn't know of
Before that I plastered different versions of Jesus saying following me, I'll teach you to be fishers of men
I reminded you that disciple means follower or pupil of a teacher.

What more madam, were you expecting?
To spoon-fed you?
To hold you by the hand and lead you?
I am biting my tongue to stop me calling you unprintable names.
Get off your high horse already.

I wasn't brought up that way
and wasn't taught that way by Christ.

luvmijeje:
So why didn't Christ follow them out?

MuttleyLaff:
Follow who out to where?
Why does Christ have or need to follow them out?
Do you see what you are doing to yourself?

Before that, I plastered different versions of Jesus saying, following me, I'll teach you to be fishers of men
I reminded you that disciple means follower or pupil of a teacher.

luvmijeje:
According to you

So let me rephrase my question. If the the 12 and the 70 people Christ sent out were on training, how come Christ didn't follow them out?

MuttleyLaff:
Are you suggesting the disciples weren't on training course
and being tested?
What did the 70 say to Jesus after completing
and upon returning back from the training course and test?

I repeat, do you at all, luvmijeje,
remember the centurion who said to Jesus,
you don't have to follow me because of blah de blah de blah?
Again do you see what you are doing to yourself?

luvmijeje:
Where was it stated that they were on a training course?

Remember the reason I quoted the 12 and the 70 disciples being sent out was to show that the so called followers of Christ who called themselves Christians have diverted from his teachings.

Christ never sent out any man to build church. He sent them out to propagate the coming Kingdom. He didn't send out to start collecting tithe and offering. He told them to go out empty handed.

Then you came in with your bullshit about training. You came in to confuse yourself and not me.

MuttleyLaff:
https://www.nairaland.com/4906753/daddy-freeze-liar-tithing-very/20#74075692

You have a hundred plus one problems
and because amnesia is one of them, I have taken the liberty of pasting the above link to refreshen your memory to part of the beginning of the chain of posts of you digging yourself in a hole.

You were haphazard, incoherent, inconsistent, contradictory and just being literally all over the place,
lost and pathetically chasing your tail doing strawman minings. SMH.

You need deliverance to be safe from your demons inside you.

luvmijeje:
The link should be a refresher course for you.
Honestly this demon have your time today.
Why did blunt say I asked valid questions?

[s]I know you are use to confusing your ways out of issue but this time you have met someone bigger than you[/s].

MuttleyLaff:
The question is not why did BluntBoy say you asked "valid" questions
but should be why those "valid" questions at MuttleyLaff?

What did MuttleyLaff say, what did I do or post to deserve being asked your "valid" questions luvmijeje?
If MuttleyLaff doesnt have a dog in organised religion race, why are you asking him about physical brick and mortar church buildings?
Wetin concern fish with raincoat?

https://www.nairaland.com/4906753/daddy-freeze-liar-tithing-very/20#74072986
The above link is the actual start of our interaction
Notice how I started meticulously, layer by layer, peeling information out from you,
but it was after my 3rd interaction with you, that you suddenly lost the plot and with obscenities, went berserk.

PastorAIO:


To a blacksmith, according to your logic, all iron implements are money. Why didn't god say they should bring one tenth of their hoes and cutlasses?

luvmijeje:
Then if you are not personally vested why did you quote me.
My first question when I jump on this this thread was to ask was there a church in the era of Christ?

luvmijeje:
[s]I thought you were bold enough to see it through to the end
but in the middle of the argument you grew a cold feet like the coward that you are[/s].

MuttleyLaff:
1/ Are you not personally vested in ekklesia, the church?
2/ I quoted you to extract more information in order to understand what you're on about,
to find out more about where you're coming from and where you're heading with the remark.
Is anything wrong in doing that?
3/ What is the title of this thread?
4/ Did you not know that Christ said He will build His church on the rock before you asked the question when you jumped on the thread?
5/ Was tithing approved or not by Christ during and/or for a different dispensation that was under a different arrangement?
6/ Have you bones or not, to pick with Paul?
7/ What according to you are Paul's sin(s)? What are your grievances with Paul?
8/ Do you know of any cathedrals Paul built?
9/ Are you suggesting that Paul encouraged and persuaded believers to give or pay tithes?
10/ Was the obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving, an idea formulated and instituted by any of the apostles or Paul?

You're a weakling, and because of that, dont have the nerve to reply to the 10 above questions.
For you, it is easier to ignore the 10 above questions and its all because you're yellow bellied

[img]https://christiandorr.files./2016/04/im-watching-you.jpg[/img]
You bit more than you can chew, you bought market.

I am watching you, and like I earlier said,
the moment you again step out of line with a big mouth and crooked post,
I'll come down on you, like a hammer.
cc Mobilia, BluntBoy

luvmijeje:
1. What's Ekelesia?

luvmijeje:
2. Then why are you playing ignorant?

luvmijeje:
Then what's all this crap about you not being vested in organized religion.

luvmijeje:
3. It's about tithing in the church

luvmijeje:
and I ask is there Church in Christ's era?

luvmijeje:
Is my question out of line?

luvmijeje:
4. And I asked you does what Christ said nullify his instructions to his 12 and 70 disciples?
Then you started fumbling.

luvmijeje:
5. Your question is irrelevant because he didn't instruct the disciples to go out to start building churches and start collecting tithe and offerings.

luvmijeje:
6. I do 100%. Was Paul God? Was he not a man like you?

luvmijeje:
7. In due time, I'll get to point out how his teachings is against Christ teachings.

luvmijeje:
8. In Matthew 24:1-2 was there a mention of cathedral?

luvmijeje:
9. I'm not suggesting, I'm saying the authority now being excersing by the church was gotten from the teaching of Paul who gave the church the leeway to set up their doctrines.
The division among the body of christ can be trace to the encouragement of religion by Paul.

luvmijeje:
10. See 9.

petra1:
I Thought you both are on same side

MuttleyLaff:
Do you want the abridged or unabridged version of what's ekklesia?
You luvmijeje, who cant stay reading for a long time, is asking what is ekklesia
You are a glutton for punishment indeed sha. Enjoy!

• Adam & Eve in Eden, fast forward to Matthew 16:18 and Acts 2:41
(i.e. Eve out of Adam fast forward to where and when ekklēsia's founded out from Christ's teachings & promise)
• Roman Emperors Constantine and Licinius' Edict of Milan in AD 313 which established a policy of religious freedom for all.
(i.e. a proclamation that permanently legalised Christianity in the Roman Empire)
• Christianity becoming the official religion of the Roman Empire.
• the sell-out and/or shady deal(s)(e.g. "Church" and State collaboration under Constantine)
• The regularisation and formation of the Roman Catholic Church (i.e. RCC)
• Roman Empire's adoption of RCC as "official" church during Constantine's reign
• The supremacy of the Roman bishop (i.e. the papacy) created/aided with the support of the Roman emperors (i.e. Constantine and his successors)
• Constantine calling the First Council of Nicaea in AD 325, in an attempt to unify Christianity when doctrinal disputes arose
(e.g. Arianism, doctrines named after Arius, a teacher in the early 4th century A.D) and presiding over this first ecumenical church council
• the exploits of the apostles, all charged up in their faith, preaching the Gospel and like Jesus willing to die horrible deaths because of it.
• The apostolic period (i.e. including The "patristic writings'') - about contemporaries of the apostles like Linus, mentioned in 2 Timothy 4:21, and who became the bishop of Rome after Peter was martyred
• the ante-Nicene (i.e. before Nicaea) period - about the likes of Ignatius and his "ekklesia katholicos" phrase, he was a disciple of the apostle John
• the post-Nicene "church" period - about the likes of Augustine, bishop of Hippo, who is often called the father of the [Roman Catholic] Church because of his great work in Church doctrine
• The term "Roman Catholic" defined by Emperor Theodosius on February 27th, 380 in the Theodosian Code.
In that document, he referred to those who hold to the "religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter"
as "Roman Catholic Christians" and gave them the official sanction of the empire
• the first canon (i.e. Muratorian Canon), the progressive acceptance of other books as canonical and have them make up the 66 books of the bible
• The fall of the Roman Empire in AD 476 and the rise of the Roman Catholic Church
• the Pontifex Maximus; the highest office in the state religion of ancient Rome and at the collapse of the Roman Empire, RCC popes taking on this title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors
• the tragic compromise of believers with the introduction of pagan religions and assimilation of paganism influences
(i.e. the Romanization and paganization of Christianity and the "Christianization" of pagan beliefs)
• Apostolic succession and Pope Gregory in AD 590, upon assuming office denying any responsibility or support for any ambition to the throne of Peter
• "Church" and State fully merged as the Holy Roman Empire
• Subsequent popes exercising authority over kings and emperors, taking on imperial powers along with ecclesiastical authority (e.g. St Leo III)
• the Filioque clause/Filioque controversy and/or The Great Schism
• John Wycliffe of England, John Huss of Czechoslovakia, and John of Wessel in Germany
• Protestant Reformation; division between the Catholic Church and Protestantism over interpretation of Biblical Testaments.
• The Edict of Worms (i.e. the Holy Roman Empire, Charles V and the Pope banning all writings of Martin Luther and labelling him a heretic and enemy of the state) etc
• Calvinism (i.e. named after French reformer and theologian John Calvin, he was Martin Luther's successor during the Protestant Reformation)
• The Edict of Nantes, The Edict of Restitution.
• King Henry VIII taking over jurisdiction of the Church, after kicking RCC out of England.
• Various political and ulterior motives
(e.g. translators forbidden by King James' official order from replacing the Greek word "ekklesia" with "congregation" (i.e. the true interpretation)
Compare Psalms 22:22 with Hebrews 2:12 for more details on this, bibles translated to fit the politics or traditions of men etc)
• Evangelicalism, Revivalism, Pentecostalism, Christian science, the Charismatic Movement, Mormonism/the Latter Day Saint movement, Word of Faith movement etc
• Institutional/organised church(es); licensed or incorporated as businesses/charities etc (i.e. to gain non-profit tax-exempt status)
• Church(es) under the jurisdiction of man (e.g. unincorporated charities/church(es), unregistered/registered church(es) etc)
• details of corrupted teachings or doctrines.
• Etcetera, etcetera

---

1st century AD - ekklēsia founded on the teachings of Jesus
2nd century AD - Christians already denouncing teachings seen as heresies, e.g Gnosticism, Montanism etc
4th century AD - ekklēsia transformed, church evolves, finally legalized and then promoted by Emperors Constantine and Theodosius I as the state church of the Roman Empire
11th century AD - Church within the Roman Empire excommunicated each other - West (i.e. Rome) and the East (i.e. Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria) officially excluded each other
16th century AD - Lutheran Church was founded by Martin Luther
16th century AD - Protestant Reformation
16th century AD - The Presbyterian denomination began by John Knox who was dissatisfied with Anglicanism
16th century AD - Anglicanism (i.e. Church of England) founded by King Henry VIII
17th century AD - The Baptist church launched by John Smyth in Amsterdam, Holland.
18th century AD - The Methodist church launched by John and Charles Wesley in England
18th century AD - The Salvation Army launched by William Booth, who quit the Anglicans, and then the Methodists to set up his own version of Christianity.
19th century AD - The Jehovah's Witness Church developed by Charles Russell.
19th century AD - The Christian Scientist religion began by Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy, centered around an outright denial of Original Sin and its effects
19th century AD - Ballinger Booth, the son of William Booth, quit The Salvation Army and started his own church
19th century AD to date - The Seventh-Day Adventists, Apostolic Faith, Foursquare Apostolic Church, K&C, CAC, CCC, RCCG, MFM, Winners Chapel, KICC, BLW/Christ Embassy, SCOAN,
and various other Pentecostal Churches etc are among the hundreds of new churches founded by men within the past 200 years or so.

If you want more info to the above,
then the below link has additional unabridged version of what's ekklesia.
https://www.nairaland.com/4263508/church-vs-congregation-congregation-yahshua#63812199
by MuttleyLaff: 6:00am On Jan 02

Please dont again ever mistake me quizzing you to mean I am playing ignorant.
If you're in the habit of dismissing who questions you, you will never grow.
Peradventure, such cross your way, to sharpen you.

I dont know.
I dont know why you should associate me organised religion

Good
and I am well glad you acknowleged that

What is the connection

Yes, you put a duck out of row, to shoot at

Ekklesia is non existent during the 12 and 70 disciples.
Ekklesia was a building site, it was work in progress in Christ's earthly era

Maybe I was fumbling, because I knew you are as delicate as egg shell
Look at all these simple bible 001 theological/scriptural things you havent the foggiest about

1/ What was my question, on what circumstance or premise did my question come from?
2/ Where did I state that the training and test had to do building brick & mortar building or about collecting tithes & offerrings?

I admire your honesty and like you for admitting your disdain for Paul.
This is deja vu for me because "Was Paul God? Was he not a man like you?", many years ago, were the exact words and more I said about Paul.

I hated Paul so much with a passion then, I felt he was full of himself,
felt he is a certified and confirmed misogynist

Back then I also used to think, who the hell does Paul think he is,
galavanting upanda, going all over the place and like laying down the law(s).

Ah luvmijeje, believe me when I say, I never liked Paul, never enjoyed reading his epistles.
I had total contempt and a lot more for Paul
but then, that soon changed, after I found out that, Paul, apart from being a maverick, also had a highly idiosyncratic personality.
and most importantly in addition had a peculiar style of writing.
You luvmijeje, being a writer yourself, will understand and know about what I mean by, authors and their style of writing

Recall, even Peter, on record, said Paul's letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort.

I wouldnt want to miss reading it for the world
Please mention me when/if you do get to.

Remember, I've been here, I was here about Paul, before you.
I've been there, done that, even have the t-shirts bought
You arent the first and wont be the last to misunderstand Paul, his messages and teachings in his letters.

"Ah o ma seun"
loosely means, oh my, what a pity.
You put me in pains, in severe pains with asking such a gaffe question like this luvmijeje.
I am sorry luvmijeje, I am teary eyes about this and just need to get my composure back

No oooo! "Agbedo", loosely translated means "God forbid"
Ah luvmijeje, ah, you alone, concocting and manufacturing all these lies about Paul!

luvmijeje, wait a sec, look at your hands.
Are all your fingers equal? No of course they arent
We dont mind that because what unites the fingers is greater than what is division among them
Do you really think God wasnt aware there'll be divisions in ekklesia?

I was just about to write how Paul demostrated, persuaded and encouraged true and pure religion that is faultless
but changed my mind to do it because there's no point, as Paul's bible recorded exemplary character already frees him from blame.

Right from the beginning in Eden, man has never want to take ownership of blame.
He would rather point the finger at another person or someone else, looking for a scapegoat

Forgetting that, for every time, your finger is pointed at another person or Paul, three points back at you.

Perhaps by divine design, the three fingers are telling you,
to check yourself out, three times, over the matter you're pointing out a person about.

Dont pick and find a close-mindness fault, but rather
1/ use time positively.
- Find out, what happened that brought the matter/crisis/problem up

2/ take out bad energy and/or negativity.
- Find out how the matter/crisis/problem should have properly be handled/managed

3/ take ownership.
Find out how to rightfully correct the matter/crisis/problem

Obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving wouldnt have seen the light of the day, if the above guidelines were followed
cc Mobilia, BluntBoy

luvmijeje:
I'm not adverse to reading.
I'm adverse to reading bullshit.
And all what you wrote up there is bullshit.

luvmijeje:
You accuse me of something I've never come across.
Immediately I realise what you are accusing me of is not in the Bible, I no read am at all.

luvmijeje:
Anyway, I've stated where I am and my direction going forward on this platform.

luvmijeje:
So your challenge is welcome.
I welcome you to a new era of cutting through every single of your bullshit.

MuttleyLaff:
Happy New Year in Advance petra1+family
and best wishes to Gombs+family too

What binds us all together is greater that what seemingly has us on different sides

MuttleyLaff:


https://www.nairaland.com/4906753/daddy-freeze-liar-tithing-very/20#74041262
I wished nelsonoba just paid attention to the pasted by MuttleyLaff: 8:55am On Dec 21 above link
He wouldnt have posted:
"Why don't you start by asking Abraham who gave him the idea of TITHING?...
Why didn't God reject the tithe when Abraham paid it if it wasn't God that gave him the idea?"

Look at nelsonoba scoring an own goal. SMH.

PastorAIO:


The Biggest own goal is scored all the way from the opponents penalty box when he decides to make a back pass to his own goal keeper all the way in this own half after dribbling the ball all the way into the opponents penalty box and facing an open goal, he then turned around and made a back pass which slipped through the buttery hands of his goal keeper and rolled pathetically into his own net.

If God is required to reject the idea then also asked: Why didn't God reject the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter? Why didn't god reject the rape and abduction of the women of Jabesh Gilead and Shiloh when the Benjaminites were lacking wives?

nelsonoba:


I don't know what god you serve, but as far as the true God whom I serve is concerned, he hates evil and cannot accept anything evil. That was why the sacrifice of Cain was rejected. If tithe was wrong or evil, why didn't God reject it when Abraham brought It?

The standard of good and evil does not come from you Mr Man! It comes from God! So if God decides to ask Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter or accepts Jephthah's daughter as a sacrifice, then it was a good thing, because God CANNOT DO OR ACCEPT ANY EVIL. An action is not evil because you don't like It, rather it is evil only because God hates it. So anything God does or accepts cannot be evil or wrong!

Like I said, I don't know what god you serve, I can only speak about the true God whom I serve

PastorAIO:


I get your point totally. So obviously Human Sacrifice is not evil because your god has accepted it.