patrickmuf:
So, I can say Henry, Nistelrooy and Beckham were past it when they moved to La Liga? If Aguero and the likes were youngsters then it's not out of point to say Nistelrooy was past it.

Henry Suarez Bale Ronaldo were the best players in EPL before moving to La Liga, when will the La liga equivalent like Messi Griezmann etc move to EPL

Rather its the second rate La Liga players like Ozil, DiMaria, Alexis etc that they ship back to EPL

Its like Nigeria sending our best crude out and they send bend down select clothes in return

timbros:


Competitiveness is when variety of teams win the UCL not when only two clubs win it from a particular league.

Nottingham Forest is a European champion but where are they now? That's competition. Right from the onset, we know only two teams in Spain can win the UCL. It was like that 50 years ago. It is like that now. It will continue to be so....

I even intentionally overlooked the post where you said Atletico is better than all the teams in England. Can you prove that?

And you still haven't proved that Costa, Aguero, De Gea, Silva, Toure are second tier.... I'm still waiting for that.

It's good you are the one that said the bolded so let's scrutinise your opinion.

Atletico has made 2 CL finals check their ranking by UEFA as evidence

Competittion is what you used to console yourself

Between 2008 and 2013 6yrs French league had 6 different champions. Did you consider the league the best in Europe then?

But when Man utd won the EPL 3 times in a row, and EPL teams were making the CL finals for fun, Didnt you consider the EPL the best league?

In Africa Egyptian league has Ahly and Zamalek rotate it between themself, whereas Nigerian league new winner every year

If they ask you to choose one which one two league Egyptian and Nigerian which do you choose

raumdeuter:


Can you please provide Willian and Hazard CL career goals from open play?

Let's know which of them useless pass

Stats won't tell me how many clear cut chances bastian schweinsterger provided for mullar to score but will only remember that one corner kick from Thiago that led to goal even if Thiago was abysmal in the game from start to finish.


When next my team want to play your useless bayern Munich you can always double team willian and allow hazard with one marker since he is terrible.

popizaino:

Stats won't tell me how many clear cut chances bastian schweinsterger provided for mullar to score but will only remember that one corner kick from Thiago that led to goal even if Thiago was abysmal in the game from start to finish.

When next my team want to play your useless bayern Munich you can always double team willian and allow hazard with one marker since he is terrible.

Bastian was a midfielder unlike Hidden hazard who is an attacker

Willian and Hazard play in the same team with same teammates yet Willian scored more in the CL than Hidden

raumdeuter:


Atletico has made 2 CL finals check their ranking by UEFA as evidence

Competittion is what you used to console yourself

Between 2008 and 2013 6yrs French league had 6 different champions. Did you consider the league the best in Europe then?

But when Man utd won the EPL 3 times in a row, and EPL teams were making the CL finals for fun, Didnt you consider the EPL the best league?

In Africa Egyptian league has Ahly and Zamalek rotate it between themself, whereas Nigerian league new winner every year

If they ask you to choose one which one two league Egyptian and Nigerian which do you choose

I don't make random arguments. Let's not diviate.

Atletico made 2 finals but won how many? Chelsea made 2 finals in 4 years and won one. Man Utd made 2 finals in 3 years and won one. How many did Atletico win?

5 different teams from league A winning UCL vs 2 different teams from league B winning UCL........ Which of the leagues have a better representation in the UCL? A or B?

OH... Its raumdeuter sef. I still think say na randomperson

timbros:


1. So are you admitting England has more quality but not as competitive as Spain?

2. I won't engage you in a tier 2 competition in Europe.

3. Are we talking about teams that PLAYED in the final or those that actually WON it? How many UCL did Atletico won in those 4 years? And why don't you extend that your time line to 15 years and let's compare?

4. So if a coach favors one player over the other, it makes the latter second tier player? Can you prove that Yaya played just one season under Pep?

5. Developing? What do you mean by developing? Silva came to Man City as a 24 year old by which time he was already an European champion with Spain. Aguero came to Man City as a 23 year old, by then he has already won Europa League and Uefa Super Cup, has scored more than 70 goals for Atletico. What exactly were they developing? Both of these players were already established members of their team before City bought them. If these players at 23 and 24 are 'still developing' I wonder what we will say about 17, 18, 19 year Olds that are pushing for first team shirts...

Where did I admit that england has more quality? That's the exact opposite of what I said...

And if it's really a tier two competition, why is it so difficult for English teams to win it... In fact, the last two English teams that won it were teams that normally should be competing for the UCL title... Just admit that you don't want to argue on this issue because it shows conclusively that even without barca and Madrid, LA liga still wipes d floor with EPL.

Atletico did not win the UCL but outperformed every English team in that timespan which is the point of my argument. And yes, I used 4 years because the point I'm trying to prove is that LA liga IS better than EPL. And recent events are relevant not distant history...

And as regards Aguero and co, the point is that they played better in England than they did in Spain which effectively nullifies the notion that players successful in LA liga will flop if they go to England...

In addition, it's the very best in England that move to Spain: Ronaldo, Bale, Henry. Mention one best player in Spain that moved to England... Virtually none. Which shows that Spain not England is where d best players go

timbros:


I don't make random arguments. Let's not diviate.

Atletico made 2 finals but won how many? Chelsea made 2 finals in 4 years and won one. Man Utd made 2 finals in 3 years and won one. How many did Atletico win?

5 different teams from league A winning UCL vs 2 different teams from league B winning UCL........ Which of the leagues have a better representation in the UCL? A or B?

OH... Its raumdeuter sef. I still think say na randomperson

It's the league that has won more titles that has better representation.

And why are you avoiding the Europa cup?

timbros:


I don't make random arguments. Let's not diviate.

Atletico made 2 finals but won how many? Chelsea made 2 finals in 4 years and won one. Man Utd made 2 finals in 3 years and won one. How many did Atletico win?

5 different teams from league A winning UCL vs 2 different teams from league B winning UCL........ Which of the leagues have a better representation in the UCL? A or B?

OH... Its ramdeuter sef. I still think say na randomperson

And who has done it more recently, what is the point of counting what Notthingham Forest did almost 40yrs ago to a league standing today

In the past 5yrs Atletico has made th CL final twice, how many EPL teams have made 2 CL finals in the past 5yrs?

La Liga have won the last 5 consecutive CL almost the same story with Europa and we are having an argument about what?

raumdeuter:


Bastian was a midfielder unlike Hidden hazard who is an attacker

Willian and Hazard play in the same team with same teammates yet Willian scored more in the CL than Hidden

My earlier response depict I don't do stats but let me you understand what I wrote earlier and try to relate it to the question you are asking.



Bastian for all his good passes and midfield control will not be remembered by stats junkies like you but glorify a single corner kick which led to goal by Thiago even if he was abysmal in the same game from start to finish.
Stats doesn't tell the whole reason .


Stats will only tell us who scored more but will fail to address who got many chances to score.

Stats won't tell us effort by players before finally finding the back of the net.

popizaino:

My earlier response depict I don't do stats but let me you understand what I wrote earlier and try to relate it to the question you are asking.

Bastian for all his good passes and midfield control will not be remembered by stats junkies like you but glorify a single corner kick which led to goal by Thiago even if he was abysmal in the same game from start to finish.
Stats doesn't tell the whole reason .

Stats will only tell us who scored more but will fail to address who got many chances to score.
Stats won't tell us effort by players before finally finding the back of the net.

Stats to measure a defender is different from a midfielder and midfielder is different from an attacker

No one will measure Thiago or Schweini job as a midfielder by their assists they made, Modric was best midfielder without much goals or assists
Its about how you control your midfield, number of passes, pass completion and interception not by the single corner kick story you are telling

When Hidden was hidden vs Barcelona last season Willian was the one who stood up

randomperson:


Where did I admit that england has more quality? That's the exact opposite of what I said...

1. And if it's really a tier two competition, why is it so difficult for English teams to win it... In fact, the last two English teams that won it were teams that normally should be competing for the UCL title... Just admit that you don't want to argue on this issue because it shows conclusively that even without barca and Madrid, LA liga still wipes d floor with EPL.

2. Atletico did not win the UCL but outperformed every English team in that timespan which is the point of my argument. And yes, I used 4 years because the point I'm trying to prove is that LA liga IS better than EPL. And recent events are relevant not distant history...

3. And as regards Aguero and co, the point is that they played better in England than they did in Spain which effectively nullifies the notion that players successful in LA liga will flop if they go to England...

4. In addition, it's the very best in England that move to Spain: Ronaldo, Bale, Henry. Mention one best player in Spain that moved to England... Virtually none. Which shows that Spain not England is where d best players go

1. English teams don't take UEL serious. Check the match day lineup of any top 4 team in England unfortunate to play in Europa. The last two English teams that won it (Chelsea and Man Utd) only start taking the competition serious from semis... It was only Klopp that too it seriously just to impress in his first season. Unfortunately he lost in the final. But Liverpool showed they don't belong in UEL by making the UCL final as an improvement. How many UCL finals has Sevilla made?

2. You choose a time span that will favour your argument. Extend the time span to 15 years and let's see how far.

3. So a LA Liga player that improves in EPL nullifies a certain notion BUT an EPL player that improves in LA Liga is proof that LA Liga is the best? Which kind of contradiction is this?

4. Was Pique the very best in England before moving to Spain? Forlan? Graveson? Woodgate? Was Henry the best player in England when he signed for Barcelona?

raumdeuter:


And who has done it more recently, what is the point of counting what Notthingham Forest did almost 40yrs ago to a league standing today

In the past 5yrs Atletico has made th CL final twice, how many EPL teams have made 2 CL finals in the past 5yrs?

La Liga have won the last 5 consecutive CL almost the same story with Europa and we are having an argument about what?

Did UCL started 5 years ago?

When Madrid was targeting La Decima, did it include 5 back to backs won between '56 to '60? No? That's almost 60 years ago. So why shouldn't I mention Nottingham of 'just' 40 years ago?

timbros:


Did UCL started 5 years ago?

When Madrid was targeting La Decima, did it include 5 back to backs won between '56 to '60? No? That's almost 60 years ago. So why shouldn't I mention Nottingham of 'just' 40 years ago?

Is it history that matters or what is happening currently?

5yrs is a more accurate indication of current status than what happened 40yrs ago

That is the reason why Chelsea is considered a stronger team than Nottingham Forest CURRENTLY

When Madrid did not win the CL for about 30yrs no one considered them a top team

Which is the stronger team in Europe currently AC Milan or Barcelona?

raumdeuter:


Stats to measure a defender is different from a midfielder and midfielder is different from an attacker

No one will measure Thiago or Schweini job as a midfielder by their assists they made, Modric was best midfielder without much goals or assists
Its about how you control your midfield, number of passes, pass completion and interception not by the single corner kick story you are telling

When Hidden was hidden vs Barcelona last season Willian was the one who stood up

Eden olumo olori-odo king of youth Hazard.

timbros:


1. English teams don't take UEL serious. Check the match day lineup of any top 4 team in England unfortunate to play in Europa. The last two English teams that won it (Chelsea and Man Utd) only start taking the competition serious from semis... It was only Klopp that too it seriously just to impress in his first season. Unfortunately he lost in the final. But Liverpool showed they don't belong in UEL by making the UCL final as an improvement. How many UCL finals has Sevilla made?

1. Is a lie If you want me to bust it I will gladly. EPL teams take Europa serious they just fail at it

Below was Man Utd lineup in the 2017 Quarterfinal vs Anderlecht
Romero, Valencia, Bailly Rojo Shaw, Carrick Lingard, Mikitaryan Pogba, Zlatan Rashford. Does this look like a second team

Below was the lineup of Arsenal in the quarter-final vs CSKA
Cech, Bellerin, Monreal Koscielny, Mustafi, Wilshere Ramsey Ozil Xhaka, Mikitaryan Lacazette. Does this look like a second team?


So the EPL teams who belong to Europa where are they and how did they perform

raumdeuter:


Is it history that matters or what is happening currently?

5yrs is a more accurate indication of current status than what happened 40yrs ago

That is the reason why Chelsea is considered a stronger team than Nottingham Forest CURRENTLY

When Madrid did not win the CL for about 30yrs no one considered them a top team

Which is the stronger team in Europe currently AC Milan or Barcelona?

Why is 5 years an accurate indication of current status and not 15 years? On what criteria? Simple answer: because it will favor your argument.

That Spanish sides are dominating Europe recently doesn't make English domination early 2000s obsolete.

Lets start from 2005 and let's see how far. That's just 13 years ago.

timbros:


1. English teams don't take UEL serious. Check the match day lineup of any top 4 team in England unfortunate to play in Europa. The last two English teams that won it (Chelsea and Man Utd) only start taking the competition serious from semis... It was only Klopp that too it seriously just to impress in his first season. Unfortunately he lost in the final. But Liverpool showed they don't belong in UEL by making the UCL final as an improvement. How many UCL finals has Sevilla made?

2. You choose a time span that will favour your argument. Extend the time span to 15 years and let's see how far.

3. So a LA Liga player that improves in EPL nullifies a certain notion BUT an EPL player that improves in LA Liga is proof that LA Liga is the best? Which kind of contradiction is this?

4. Was Pique the very best in England before moving to Spain? Forlan? Graveson? Woodgate? Was Henry the best player in England when he signed for Barcelona?

You're comparing Sevilla with Liverpool? You should be comparing Liverpool with Madrid.

And please spare me the pitiable excuse that English teams don't take UEL serious... When Everton and Tottenham were d ones qualifying for Europa, they still didn't really want to win abi? Even though they have been trophyless for years?

In the last 15 years, Spanish teams have constantly outdone their English counterparts by every possible metric. And that's what matters...

I never said all players that move from Epl to Spain are the best players... I said d best players move from epl to Spain. The fact that some other players also do doesn't change the fact that the majority of the very best in England eventually move to Spain. And I mentioned henry and Ronaldo to prove my point...

now mention one best player in Spain that moved to England

raumdeuter:


1. Is a lie If you want me to bust it I will gladly. EPL teams take Europa serious they just fail at it

Below was Man Utd lineup in the 2017 Quarterfinal vs Anderlecht
Romero, Valencia, Bailly Rojo Shaw, Carrick Lingard, Mikitaryan Pogba, Zlatan Rashford. Does this look like a second team

Below was the lineup of Arsenal in the quarter-final vs CSKA
Cech, Bellerin, Monreal Koscielny, Mustafi, Wilshere Ramsey Ozil Xhaka, Mikitaryan Lacazette. Does this look like a second team?


So the EPL teams who belong to Europa where are they and how did they perform

I should say quarters.

I generally mean when they smell the trophy is within reach they take is a bit serious.

You can't compare a UCL group stage line up to the one of UEL.

A top 4 team in England will prefer to rest key players on a Thursday night with one eye on the weekend league match. Same cannot be said for a UCL match.

timbros:


Why is 5 years an accurate indication of current status and not 15 years? On what criteria? Simple answer: because it will favor your argument.

That Spanish sides are dominating Europe recently doesn't make English domination early 2000s obsolete.

Lets start from 2005 and let's see how far. That's just 13 years ago.

Yeah, let's start from 2005...

Since 2005, EPL has won the champions league 3 times, LA liga has won it 8 times.

Since 2005, EPL has won the Europa league 2 times, LA liga has won it 8 times.

In conclusion, while EPL has won European titles 5 times, LA liga has won it 16 times!! More than times 3!

Are you ashamed?

timbros:


Why is 5 years an accurate indication of current status and not 15 years? On what criteria? Simple answer: because it will favor your argument.

That Spanish sides are dominating Europe recently doesn't make English domination early 2000s obsolete.

Lets start from 2005 and let's see how far. That's just 13 years ago.

So if they ask you, Leed United who made the CL semi about 15yrs ago or Atletico who made it 5yrs ago

Who is more relevant?

You will pick Leeds

Or italian league that dominated 20yrs ago is more relevant than Spanish league dominating in the past 5yrs?

obainojazz:
you showing us Dugbe Why did you edit the picture... The brown roof is suddenly looking red

First, i don't own the picture, I got it from the NET. Second, i clearly said that place is a commercial centre, just right behind Dugbe you would find a lot of brown roof buildings. I was an average Ibadan resident and I don't even live there, infact I have no business in such areas not to talk of rich folks. Like I said again, ancient areas like Mapo, Bere are the ones that coined the Brown-Roof term and they are just a little part of Ibadan where you won't normally find people that contribute tangibly to the City's economy.

randomperson:


1. You're comparing Sevilla with Liverpool? You should be comparing Liverpool with Madrid.

2. And please spare me the pitiable excuse that English teams don't take UEL serious... When Everton and Tottenham were d ones qualifying for Europa, they still didn't really want to win abi? Even though they have been trophyless for years?

3. In the last 15 years, Spanish teams have constantly outdone their English counterparts by every possible metric. And that's what matters...

4. I never said all players that move from Epl to Spain are the best players... I said d best players move from epl to Spain. The fact that some other players also do doesn't change the fact that the majority of the very best in England eventually move to Spain. And I mentioned henry and Ronaldo to prove my point...

now mention one best player in Spain that moved to England

1. Liverpool played Sevilla in the UEL final. One team improved by going on to play in the UCL final, one team continued in the tier 2 competition forming boss.

2. They don't take it serious.

3. Shall we check both League's performance in the UCL last 15 years?

4. You said this...

randomperson:
In addition, it's the very best in England that move to Spain: Ronaldo, Bale, Henry. Mention one best player in Spain that moved to England... Virtually none. Which shows that Spain not England is where d best players go

So?

randomperson:


Yeah, let's start from 2005...

Since 2005, EPL has won the champions league 3 times, LA liga has won it 8 times.

Since 2005, EPL has won the Europa league 2 times, LA liga has won it 8 times.

In conclusion, while EPL has won European titles 5 times, LA liga has won it 16 times!! More than times 3!

Are you ashamed?

Ashamed of what?

Are we arguing how many trophies won OR how many DIFFERENT teams from each league to win the trophy in a time space?

Are you sure we are in the same page?

randomperson:


What were Aguero's or Silva's achievements in LA liga before they left? That's what matters

You no see Costa there abi?
Who was Atletico's best player then?
At Valencia, you had Villa and Silva, 8f Villa had ended up in the EPL and not Barca, you'd be here telling us he was a second rate player.

timbros:


Ashamed of what?

Are we arguing how many trophies won OR how many DIFFERENT teams from each league to win the trophy in a time space?

Are you sure we are in the same page?

How many different EPL teams have won in Europe?

Liverpool Chelsea United right? Sevilla Atletico Barcelona Madrid.

How many?

raumdeuter:


They let those players become something before going to the La Liga to prove themselves

When was the last time you saw the La liga best player come to play in EPL

Unlike EPL where its the best players that get cherry picked by the La liga seniors

It's like saying Kane is second rate because he plays for Spurs...David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Costa were hardly second rate players.
Talking about second rate, it was Forlan that moved from Manchester United bench to Spain where he dominated the league.

patrickmuf:
You no see Costa there abi?
Who was Atletico's best player then?
At Valencia, you had Villa and Silva, 8f Villa had ended up in the EPL and not Barca, you'd be here telling us he was a second rate player.

What did Costa achieve in la Liga? His only decent season after several seasons of mediocrity he suddenly jumped to one of the best teams in England

raumdeuter:


So if they ask you, Leed United who made the CL semi about 15yrs ago or Atletico who made it 5yrs ago

Who is more relevant?

You will pick Leeds

Or italian league that dominated 20yrs ago is more relevant than Spanish league dominating in the past 5yrs?

So if they ask you, Atletico who made the UCL final 3 years ago or Liverpool who made it 7 months ago

Who is more relevant?

Can you see that your 5 years is as good as 15 years in relevance?

patrickmuf:
It's like saying Kane is second rate because he plays for Spurs...David Silva, Aguero, Yaya and Costa were hardly second rate players.
Talking about second rate, it was Forlan that moved from Manchester United bench to Spain where he dominated the league.

Kane was top scorer in EPL for 2 seasons, How many of those who came to EPL have been top scorers in Spain

But I can tell you Ronaldo Henry Suarez have been top scorers.
Suarez played for Liverpool yet he was not second rate

What did Aguero Silva Yaya Costa achieve individually in Spain?

Were they best player, top scorer, best midfielders or what?

raumdeuter:


Kane was top scorer in EPL for 2 seasons, How many of those who came to EPL have been top scorers in Spain

But I can tell you Ronaldo Henry Suarez have been top scorers.
Suarez played for Liverpool yet he was not second rate

What did Aguero Silva Yaya Costa achieve individually in Spain?

Were they best player, top scorer, best midfielders or what?

Was Yaya Toure and Costa second rate?

timbros:


So if they ask you, Atletico who made the UCL final 3 years ago or Liverpool who made it 7 months ago

Who is more relevant?

Can you see that your 5 years is as good as 15 years in relevance?

How is 5yrs as good as 15yrs

Liverpool is more relevant than Atetico since they have done it more recently

15yrs ago Porto won the CL, 5yrs ago Bayern won it. So currently who is more relevant Bayern or Porto?

So we can say Ajax that won it 22yrs ago is equal to Bayern who won it 5yrs ago

patrickmuf:
Was Yaya Toure and Costa second rate?

What did they achieve individually in La Liga?