aadoiza:


Allah is all powerful na. Abi you do forget "kun fa yakun" so quickly.

You know it didn't change nothing.

What a silly cheap excuse and apology. Hypocritical argument.

So you're quickly to give excuse for an imaginary being called Allah, an entity you can't even proof, yet you find problems with nothingness in quantum physics.

FYI the quantum state is not totally nothingness, how your God was able to create out of nothing begs many question. Energy cannot be created, that contradicts your God creation from nothing.

tintingz:
What a silly cheap excuse and apology. Hypocritical argument.

So you're quickly to give excuse for an imaginary being called Allah, an entity you can't even proof, yet you find problems with nothingness in quantum physics.

FYI the quantum state is not totally nothingness, how your God was able to create out of nothing begs many question. Energy cannot be created, that contradicts your God creation from nothing.

You'd always find yourself in an abject state of foolhardiness whenever you try unraveling divine enigmas with science designed with a view of understanding the physical nature. There are certain things science can't give us, and this is one of such, tintingz.

aadoiza:

You'd always find yourself in an abject state of foolhardiness whenever you try unraveling divine enigmas with science designed with a view of understanding the physical nature. There are certain things science can't give us, and this is one of such, tintingz.

Fairies, unicorn, leprechaun, Santa Claus etc these entities cannot be disprove with science, do you know why? because they are imaginary entities just like your God.

tintingz:
Fairies, unicorn, leprechaun, Santa Claus etc these entities cannot be disprove with science, do you know why? because they are imaginary entities just like your God.

All those are fairly recent figments of some people's imagination and have been tagged myths from onset. My father (may Allah forgive him) never heard of all those things you mentioned and I'm also sure your grandparents or great grandparents never knew of those things either. But the belief in God is as old as life itself.

So, I implore you not to equate God's existence to myths and superstitions.

aadoiza:

All those are fairly recent figments of some people's imagination and have been tagged myths from onset. My father (may Allah forgive him) never heard of all those things you mentioned and I'm also sure your grandparents or great grandparents never knew of those things either. But the belief in God is as old as life itself.

So, I implore you not to equate God's existence to myths and superstitions.

LMAO!

When these fairy entities were known does not negate the belief of their existence, they are Belief system. Allah was never known to be God in the Ancient Greece nor ancient china nor Eskimos, that argument is flawed. The belief of Fairies have been known right from human history, Santa is known around 19th century and so on. If your dad doesn't know about Santa, my dad knows and other aged people.

Your God is also seen as mythical figure by others so this not an argument.

tintingz:
LMAO! Yy

When these fairy entities were known does not negate the belief of their existence, they are Belief system. Allah was never known to be God in the Ancient Greece nor ancient china nor Eskimos, that argument is flawed. The belief of Fairies have been known right from human history, Santa is known around 19th century and so on. If your dad doesn't know about Santa, my dad knows and other aged people.

Your God is also seen as mythical figure by others so this not an argument.

They didn't have to know Allah as the true God but they did know there were/was gods/god. And Allah has sent prophets after prophets to clear their misconceptions.

You see your problem? You think you're living an oyinbo life. Fairies are alien to African traditional belief system and I'm sure to Asians too. They were originally found in british folklore, I think.

I didn't mention your dad because I know you're still a small boy. So your dad would know about santa and should know also it's a myth at best. Go ask really aged africans who never got Western education. Besides, na only children believe in santa even right there in the West.

Now you can see that unlike the belief in God, your fantasies and myths never cut across all continents and civilisations. They were only believed by some at a point in history. They were more like localised not general beliefs.

aadoiza:


They didn't have to know Allah as the true God but they did know there were/was gods/god. And Allah has sent prophets after prophets to clear their misconceptions.

You see your problem? You think you're living an oyinbo life. Fairies are alien to African traditional belief system and I'm sure to Asians too. They were originally found in british folklore, I think.

I didn't mention your dad because I know you're still a small boy. So your dad would know about santa and should know also it's a myth at best. Go ask really aged africans who never got Western education. Besides, na only children believe in santa even right there in the West.

Now you can see that unlike the belief in God, your fantasies and myths never cut across all continents and civilisations. They were only believed by some at a point in history. They were more like localised not general beliefs.

You lack historical knowledge and fail to see the flaws in your logic.

Allah was never known has God in the Ancient Greece and other nations, they have their God/s. Allah is even a localized pagan god in some tribe in Saudi Arabia where Muhammad grew up. Claiming Allah sent prophets to all nation is false and has no proof, no one knows Allah as God be it ancient China, Africa, India, Europe etc stop giving empty claims.

Fairies were actually supernatural belief in Europe culture.

Various folk theories about the origins of fairies include casting them as either demoted angels or demons in a Christian tradition, as minor deities in pre-Christian Pagan belief systems, as spirits of the dead, as prehistoric precursors to humans, or as elementals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy

Allah and Islam are alien to Africa, this was never the religion and God of our forefathers, read history and stop being ignorant.

Lol, since your father doesn't know about Santa other aged people don't know about Santa? For your information Santa Claus is called Father Christmas in Nigeria if you're confused who Santa is.

You still don't get, Allah is also seen as a mythical figure in other cultures. He doesn't exist to them, Hindus don't believe in Allah.

Again you can't disprove the existence of an imaginary entity just because some set of people believe in it even if it is just one person, you can't disprove the existence of Santa just because kids mostly believe in it, it is a belief system you can't disprove imaginary entities with that weak argument. Kids believe in Santa because Santa visit them.

Santa is for kids while God is like Santa for adults, two versions of imaginary beliefs.

tintingz:
You lack historical knowledge and fail to see the flaws in your logic.

Allah was never known has God in the Ancient Greece and other nations, they have their God/s. Allah is even a localized pagan god in some tribe in Saudi Arabia where Muhammad grew up. Claiming Allah sent prophets to all nation is false and has no proof, no one knows Allah as God be it ancient China, Africa, India, Europe etc stop giving empty claims.

Fairies were actually supernatural belief in Europe culture.

Various folk theories about the origins of fairies include casting them as either demoted angels or demons in a Christian tradition, as minor deities in pre-Christian Pagan belief systems, as spirits of the dead, as prehistoric precursors to humans, or as elementals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy

Allah and Islam are alien to Africa, this was never the religion and God of our forefathers, read history and stop being ignorant.

Lol, since your father doesn't know about Santa other aged people don't know about Santa? For your information Santa Claus is called Father Christmas in Nigeria if you're confused who Santa is.

You still don't get, Allah is also seen as a mythical figure in other cultures. He doesn't exist to them, Hindus don't believe in Allah.

Again you can't disprove the existence of an imaginary entity just because some set of people believe in it even if it is just one person, you can't disprove the existence of Santa just because kids mostly believe in it, it is a belief system you can't disprove imaginary entities with that weak argument. Kids believe in Santa because Santa visit them.

Santa is for kids while God is like Santa for adults, two versions of imaginary beliefs.

True talk!

tintingz:
The Quran said Allah destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of the sins and evil of the people, one of the main reason is the practice of homosexuality.

Did Allah tried when he sent Lut to to warn them? He's ominipotent and knows things beforehand, why can't he stop these things he hate so much from onset?

What about Children and infants, were they also killed?

1. A Professor did teach his students for 12 weeks in a semester, organized tutorials for these students, did revisions and also made study materials available (for free) which had the exam questions...On the examination day, he was supervising his students, and saw that some where writing nonsense, of course he knows these students would fail! So how would you propose the Professor stop these students from failing?!

You my friend have exercised your freewill by denying your creator, you are proud of it, you pride yourself as being intelligent, reasonable and rational! No one is forcing you to change your mind, of course you are free to make your own decisions. If you are given two choices, and then given adequate information to guide you, do you also need to be forced to make the right choice?! After your claim to be an intelligent being?!

2. Do children and infant live forever?! Does death always skip children and infants during natural disasters?!

sino:


1. A Professor did teach his students for 12 weeks in a semester, organized tutorials for these students, did revisions and also made study materials available (for free) which had the exam questions...On the examination day, he was supervising his students, and saw that some where writing nonsense, of course he knows these students would fail! So how would you propose the Professor stop these students from failing?!

You my friend have exercised your freewill by denying your creator, you are proud of it, you pride yourself as being intelligent, reasonable and rational! No one is forcing you to change your mind, of course you are free to make your own decisions. If you are given two choices, and then given adequate information to guide you, do you also need to be forced to make the right choice?! After your claim to be an intelligent being?!

What a failed logic!

A professor is NOT all knowing he's a human just like the students the reason he's not even perfect, he doesn't know the future, that analogy does not fit in with your God who is said to be all-knowing and perfect.

For the fact that a God can tell your future long before you're born nullify freewill, you are simply acting on what he already knows like a programm.

Let's go back before God created everything, God knew that humans will err, he hates sin and evil why create evil and even humans, did humans asked him to create them? Why did he allow evil to exist when he hate it so much?, he has all the power to stop it, he's the creator, he's all good, there shouldn't be any room for evil in the first place!

Now that he allowed evil to exist, he's threatening humans with what he is responsible of, Is he malevolent or impotent? A threat is even a threat to freewill.

Can God make a stone so heavy he can't lift it?"

Freewill when it comes to an all knowing God is an illusion.

2. Do children and infant live forever?! Does death always skip children and infants during natural disasters?!

Your God purposely killed innocent children and infants for no reason, is he just malevolent or what?

I think Satan is not even the devil.

tintingz:
You lack historical knowledge and fail to see the flaws in your logic.

Allah was never known has God in the Ancient Greece and other nations, they have their God/s. Allah is even a localized pagan god in some tribe in Saudi Arabia where Muhammad grew up. Claiming Allah sent prophets to all nation is false and has no proof, no one knows Allah as God be it ancient China, Africa, India, Europe etc stop giving empty claims.

Fairies were actually supernatural belief in Europe culture.

Various folk theories about the origins of fairies include casting them as either demoted angels or demons in a Christian tradition, as minor deities in pre-Christian Pagan belief systems, as spirits of the dead, as prehistoric precursors to humans, or as elementals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy

Allah and Islam are alien to Africa, this was never the religion and God of our forefathers, read history and stop being ignorant.

Lol, since your father doesn't know about Santa other aged people don't know about Santa? For your information Santa Claus is called Father Christmas in Nigeria if you're confused who Santa is.

You still don't get, Allah is also seen as a mythical figure in other cultures. He doesn't exist to them, Hindus don't believe in Allah.

Again you can't disprove the existence of an imaginary entity just because some set of people believe in it even if it is just one person, you can't disprove the existence of Santa just because kids mostly believe in it, it is a belief system you can't disprove imaginary entities with that weak argument. Kids believe in Santa because Santa visit them.

Santa is for kids while God is like Santa for adults, two versions of imaginary beliefs.

You just don't get it, do you? Did they believe in god/gods or not. If those ancient Greeks or Chinese spoke Arabic they'd call their gods Allah. It's merely a linguistic discordance.

We are taking about how the belief in God has been an intrisinc part of humanity but you're taking about things that came along that pertained to a few cultures while most cultures and civilizations were totally oblivious of such myths and legends.
Santa is to Americans what father Xmas is to the Brits. The fact remains there were so many aged people who didn't know about this character, especially in the North. Even those who did/do, know that santa is modelled after someone, as in a real person.

You dey shout fairies upandan, how many of you would have known of them if not for Disney?
Fairies may be a part of the British folklore but they still believe in God because the belief in God is part of humanity.

tintingz:
What a failed logic!

A professor is NOT all knowing he's a human just like the students the reason he's not even perfect, he doesn't know the future, that analogy does not fit in with your God who is said to be all-knowing and perfect.

For the fact that a God can tell your future long before you're born nullify freewill, you are simply acting in what he already knows like a programm.

Let's go back before God created everything, God knew that humans will err, he hates sin and evil why create evil and even humans, did humans asked him to create them? Why did he allow evil to exist when he hate it so much?, he has all the power to stop it, he's the creator, he's all good, there shouldn't be any room for evil in the first place!

Now that he allowed evil to exist, he's threatening humans with what he is responsible of, Is he malevolent or impotent? A threat is even a threat to freewill.

Can God make a stone so heavy God can't lift it?"

Freewill when it comes to an all knowing God is an illusion.

Your God purposely killed innocent children and infants for no reason, is he just malevolent or what?

I think Satan is not even the devil.

1. You see, when you aren't able to answer a simple question, you go on rambling and ranting! This is why you people cannot be reasoned with! The Prof. knows his student writing nonsense in the exam hall would fail, the student who chose to be irresponsible with his studies and writing nonsense, knows he would fail, but instead of the student to take responsibility for his bad decisions, he starts blaming the Prof! "The Prof saw my script while I was writing nonsense o, and he still failed me...." "God knew I would be an atheist o, and would still burn me in hell".

The real questions are, are humans capable of making the right and wrong decisions?! Did God provide guidance so humans would not to make the wrong decisions?! Are there consequences for our decisions?! Did God inform us of the consequences?!

God did not force your decisions on you! If there is no freewill, you wouldn't be here exhibiting your freedom of will! God (evolution or whatever you want to hold on to) gave you the ability to make these decisions, and from your own understanding thus far, are there consequences for your decisions?! If yes, then you absolutely cannot fault God for your own decisions or actions!

You seek the world where there would be no evil, but apparently, this world isn't that! There is absolutely no amount of wishful thinking that can change that, nor do you have any other world to go to! This world having good and evil gives credence to the importance of making the right decisions, and taking responsibility for your own actions! Your ranting about God wouldn't change anything! Yeah, you have denied God, eh ehn?! What is new?!

2. We all die at some point in time, death doesn't look at age or your level of innocence, regardless, children generally are all admitted into paradise, where there happens to be no death or evil! It is always a win for children that die! But since you do not believe in paradise, I ask, were the children going to live forever?! Do natural disasters separate those to be killed by age?! Are innocent people not dying everyday?! Abeg look for another argument!

aadoiza:

You just don't get it, do you? Did they believe in god/gods or not. If those ancient Greeks or Chinese spoke Arabic they'd call their gods Allah. It's merely a linguistic discordance.

We are taking about how the belief in God has been an intrisinc part of humanity but you're taking about things that came along that pertained to a few cultures while most cultures and civilizations were totally oblivious of such myths and legends.
Santa is to Americans what father Xmas is to the Brits. The fact remains there were so many aged people who didn't know about this character, especially in the North. Even those who did/do, know that santa is modelled after someone, as in a real person.

God/s is not the only supernatural belief in human history there are other beliefs.

And we're not talking about languages, we're talking about the characters of these Gods, Allah character is different from Brahma but they are both Gods in different religions.

You dey shout fairies upandan, how many of you would have known of them if not for Disney?
Fairies may be a part of the British folklore but they still believe in God because the belief in God is part of humanity.

SMH.

You only know Allah because your parents indoctrined you, you can only know Allah from the Quran just like how someone know Superman from the comics.

If you're born in India you're highly likely going to believe in Brahma.

sino:

1. You see, when you aren't able to answer a simple question, you go on rambling and ranting! This is why you people cannot be reasoned with! The Prof. knows his student writing nonsense in the exam hall would fail, the student who chose to be irresponsible with his studies and writing nonsense, knows he would fail, but instead of the student to take responsibility for his bad decisions, he starts blaming the Prof! "The Prof saw my script while I was writing nonsense o, and he still failed me...." "God knew I would be an atheist o, and would still burn me in hell".

LMAO!

A professor does not know the future, he himself is not perfect talkless of the student. He does not know who will fail and who will pass except he's professor Xavier in X-men.

A student can cheat and get away with it.

A student can perform well and still fail.

A student failing does not mean it's the end.

These things are not perfect!

Exams are organized because humans are not perfect in the first place, if a professor can know who will pass or fail, there is no need for exam because the professor already knows each student destiny, there is no freewill in this case.

Stop using this weak argument.

Your God will purnish finite entity like humans for eternity, a cruel purnishmemt. Your God who's able to know the future and stop evil from onset allowed evil to exist and want to punish people, if he's all good and loving he shouldn't allow such to happen but he behave like a sadist. That's the most meaningless belief on earth.

If God knows beforehand I will be an atheist and will burn in hell, it's already in my destiny and can simply be written down. No freewill here. Since he knew, for a good loving God, he should have do something to convince me he exist but he sat and watch like a malevolent maniac.

The real questions are, are humans capable of making the right and wrong decisions?! Did God provide guidance so humans would not to make the wrong decisions?! Are there consequences for our decisions?! Did God inform us of the consequences?!

Providing guidance is meaningless, he already knows those that will pass and fail, it is only an imperfect entity will give rules.

God did not force your decisions on you! If there is no freewill, you wouldn't be here exhibiting your freedom of will! God (evolution or whatever you want to hold on to) gave you the ability to make these decisions, and from your own understanding thus far, are there consequences for your decisions?! If yes, then you absolutely cannot fault God for your own decisions or actions!

I am simply doing what the universe has bound me to, we can't experience any other thing outside this universe.

If a God can know my future then I don't have freewill because he can simply write all my life down and I will simply follow every step.

You seek the world where there would be no evil, but apparently, this world isn't that! There is absolutely no amount of wishful thinking that can change that, nor do you have any other world to go to! This world having good and evil gives credence to the importance of making the right decisions, and taking responsibility for your own actions! Your ranting about God wouldn't change anything! Yeah, you have denied God, eh ehn?! What is new?!

Lol, yes, good and evil actually make this world meaningful and purposeful but a world without evil is meaningless and purposeless, which is a world like the fairyland paradise.

I'm not seeking for the world where there's no evil, I'm simply saying your God is not good, not loving, not powerful and not perfect, just accept it and move on.

2. We all die at some point in time, death doesn't look at age or your level of innocence, regardless, children generally are all admitted into paradise, where there happens to be no death or evil! It is always a win for children that die! But since you do not believe in paradise, I ask, were the children going to live forever?! Do natural disasters separate those to be killed by age?! Are innocent people not dying everyday?! Abeg look for another argument!

Lol, you're still defending this crap.

The children were innocent your God knew that and he purposely killed them not that nature killed them, now that he killed them they are living in a meaningless fairy world.

tintingz:
LMAO!

A professor does not know the future, he himself is not perfect talkless of the student. He does not know who will fail and who will pass except he's professor Xavier in X-men.

A student can cheat and get away with it.

A student can perform well and still fail.

A student failing does not mean it's the end.

These things are not perfect!

Exams are organized because humans are not perfect in the first place, if a professor can know who will pass or fail, there is no need for exam because the professor already knows each student destiny, there is no freewill in this case.

Stop using this weak argument.

Did you skip reading that the Prof looked at what the student was writing in the exam hall?!

I have not made any extraordinary claim for my Prof, but used a simple fact of knowing the outcome of an event/action. I am always surprised at how you people can't understand simple things! Does the Prof not know that the student would fail?! And FYI, a Prof who knows what he is doing can easily tell you who would pass and who would fail his course, even while interacting with his students in class!

tintingz:

Your God will purnish finite entity like humans for eternity, a cruel purnishmemt. Your God who's able to know the future and stop evil from onset allowed evil to exist and want to punish people, if he's all good and loving he shouldn't allow such to happen but he behave like a sadist. That's the most meaningless belief on earth.

Are you able to resist evil?! How come?! Do you think God didn't know you can resist evil?! Is it a conscious choice by you or you think you are being forced or destined?!

tintingz:

If God knows beforehand I will be an atheist and will burn in hell, it's already in my destiny and can simply be written down. No freewill here. Since he knew, for a good loving God, he should have do something to convince me he exist but he sat and watch like a malevolent maniac.

God also know before hand that you can be a devout Muslim, a Christian, a Rastafarian etc. These are choices available to you and to everyone, only you chose the one you wanted and that is atheism! You want God to convince you with your own standards?! Since you don't believe in God's standards, then you shouldn't whine about the consequences! You have made your move, all you need do is wait....

tintingz:

Providing guidance is meaningless, he already knows those that will pass and fail, it is only an imperfect entity will give rules.

lol, Do you think you have failed?! Have you seen your future?! Do you want to pass or fail?! It is always your choice bro, you can't blame anyone for your own actions and decisions!

tintingz:

I am simply doing what the universe has bound me to, we can't experience any other thing outside this universe.

If a God can know my future then I don't have freewill because he can simply write all my life down and I will simply follow every step.

Lol, yes, good and evil actually make this world meaningful and purposeful but a world without evil is meaningless and purposeless, which is a world like the fairyland paradise.

Oh it is the universe that is dictating your actions?!

Nope God has written for you all the available choices you can make, sent down guidance to direct you, and gave you the freedom to choose from the available options! God knows your future if you choose the right, and God also knows your future if you choose the wrong! Ultimately, there are two consequences, good or bad, it is up to you!

And here was I thinking you were advocating for a evil-free world, but alas!

tintingz:

Lol, you're still defending this crap.

The children were innocent your God knew that and he purposely killed them not that nature killed them, now that he killed them they are living in a meaningless fairy world.

Oh you do not want the children to live in a world that is evil free i.e paradise?! Do you think death isn't part of living in this world?! When natural disasters happen and children are killed, is nature purposefully killing these innocent children?! If you don't want to believe the children had gone to a better place than this worthless earth, at least acknowledge the fact that it was a natural disaster, and such does not spare anyone, even children!

sino:

Did you skip reading that the Prof looked at what the student was writing in the exam hall?!

I have not made any extraordinary claim for my Prof, but used a simple fact of knowing the outcome of an event/action. I am always surprised at how you people can't understand simple things! Does the Prof not know that the student would fail?! And FYI, a Prof who knows what he is doing can easily tell you who would pass and who would fail his course, even while interacting with his students in class!

Lol, you also mean the professor will look at everyone exam sheet page by page in the exam hall? Where does that happen?

Oga, that professor does not know the future, he's just studying the student which made him more imperfect, because if he does know the future he won't bother checking any student exam sheet, he would score the student F before the exam sef, now that's not freewill.

An all knowing entity doesn't need to study you before knowing your results, he doesn't need to interact, he knows long before you even think of the action. Kindly stop using that weak analogy.

Ok, assuming the professor interacts with the students and can determine who will pass and fail, he can simply score them before the exam, wether the students did well or not, the scores are already written, it has been destined. Now that's not freewill. Infact exam is useless in this case.

Are you able to resist evil?! How come?! Do you think God didn't know you can resist evil?! Is it a conscious choice by you or you think you are being forced or destined?!

Humans are not perfect in the first place and God knows that, why then is he punishing when he already knew humans will err?

I am intelligent, loving, caring and I know my baby will crawl to that naked wire, what is the right thing to do?

God also know before hand that you can be a devout Muslim, a Christian, a Rastafarian etc. These are choices available to you and to everyone, only you chose the one you wanted and that is atheism! You want God to convince you with your own standards?! Since you don't believe in God's standards, then you shouldn't whine about the consequences! You have made your move, all you need do is wait....

If God know I will be a Christian then he knows, if he knows I will be a Rastafarian then he knows, the ultimate thing is he know the end of it beforehand.

lol, Do you think you have failed?! Have you seen your future?! Do you want to pass or fail?! It is always your choice bro, you can't blame anyone for your own actions and decisions!

I don't believe in any imaginary master in the sky watching us like 3D.

God know I will eat by 8Pm, then It has been destined I will eat by 8pm, I've no choice over it, if my choice contradicts God's knowledge then he's not all knowing.

Oh it is the universe that is dictating your actions?!

You are not outside the universe or are you, can you reason outside this universe or experience outside this universe?

Nope God has written for you all the available choices you can make, sent down guidance to direct you, and gave you the freedom to choose from the available options! God knows your future if you choose the right, and God also knows your future if you choose the wrong! Ultimately, there are two consequences, good or bad, it is up to you!

And here was I thinking you were advocating for a evil-free world, but alas!

If God has written down all my choices, there is no freewill. Don't you see how contradicting you sound?

Oh you do not want the children to live in a world that is evil free i.e paradise?! Do you think death isn't part of living in this world?! When natural disasters happen and children are killed, is nature purposefully killing these innocent children?! If you don't want to believe the children had gone to a better place than this worthless earth, at least acknowledge the fact that it was a natural disaster, and such does not spare anyone, even children!

Nature doesn't have any choice, nature works according to their natural order, God in other hands has choices to make, he has the power to correct his mistakes(if he's loving) but no he did the opposite.

If there is a place that is good and perfect then that makes this world meaningless, if God actually want his creation there, we shouldn't be here doing some silly test.

If God knew he's going to kill those poor innocent children in Sodom why then created them? It's only a sadist maniac that behave that way.

tintingz:
God/s is not the only supernatural belief in human history there are other beliefs.

And we're not talking about languages, we're talking about the characters of these Gods, Allah character is different from Brahma but they are both Gods in different religions.

SMH.

You only know Allah because your parents indoctrined you, you can only know Allah from the Quran just like how someone know Superman from the comics.

If you're born in India you're highly likely going to believe in Brahma.

You're mischievously deviating. We are not taking about the characters any god here but how the belief in God/gods has been a part of our existence. Which is the true God is another subject in its entirety. Geddit?
Don't think, for once, I'm trying to convince you that Allah is the one true God. Nay! My intention was to make you see your obsession with theism, which is not very wholesome for you (an enlightened atheist).
Forgive me if I had impressed on you wrongly.
The only true realty awaits us all when absolute truism and realism will be laid bare to us with helpless undeniableness.

sino:

1. You see, when you aren't able to answer a simple question, you go on rambling and ranting! This is why you people cannot be reasoned with! The Prof. knows his student writing nonsense in the exam hall would fail, the student who chose to be irresponsible with his studies and writing nonsense, knows he would fail, but instead of the student to take responsibility for his bad decisions, he starts blaming the Prof! "The Prof saw my script while I was writing nonsense o, and he still failed me...." "God knew I would be an atheist o, and would still burn me in hell".

The real questions are, are humans capable of making the right and wrong decisions?! Did God provide guidance so humans would not to make the wrong decisions?! Are there consequences for our decisions?! Did God inform us of the consequences?!

God did not force your decisions on you! If there is no freewill, you wouldn't be here exhibiting your freedom of will! God (evolution or whatever you want to hold on to) gave you the ability to make these decisions, and from your own understanding thus far, are there consequences for your decisions?! If yes, then you absolutely cannot fault God for your own decisions or actions!

You seek the world where there would be no evil, but apparently, this world isn't that! There is absolutely no amount of wishful thinking that can change that, nor do you have any other world to go to! This world having good and evil gives credence to the importance of making the right decisions, and taking responsibility for your own actions! Your ranting about God wouldn't change anything! Yeah, you have denied God, eh ehn?! What is new?!

2. We all die at some point in time, death doesn't look at age or your level of innocence, regardless, children generally are all admitted into paradise, where there happens to be no death or evil! It is always a win for children that die! But since you do not believe in paradise, I ask, were the children going to live forever?! Do natural disasters separate those to be killed by age?! Are innocent people not dying everyday?! Abeg look for another argument!

Thank you, for this.

aadoiza:

You're mischievously deviating. We are not taking about the characters any god here but how the belief in God/gods has been a part of our existence. Which is the true God is another subject in its entirety. Geddit?
Don't think, for once, I'm trying to convince you that Allah is the one true God. Nay! My intention was to make you see your obsession with theism, which is not very wholesome for you (an enlightened atheist).
Forgive me if I had impressed on you wrongly.
The only true realty awaits us all when absolute truism and realism will be laid bare to us with helpless undeniableness.

Again God is not the only supernatural that's known in history. How many times will I say this?

Atheism/atheists position is lack of belief in God/s and this is religion section, are we suppose to be talking about romance?

I'm not obsessed with theism lol, I've other important things doing, I only come here to have fun and make una reason.

tintingz:
Again God is not the only supernatural that's known in history. How many times will I say this?

Atheism/atheists position is lack of belief in God/s and this is religion section, are we suppose to be talking about romance?

I'm not obsessed with theism lol, I've other important things doing, I only come here to have fun and make una reason.

I like the fun part. Also make us see how atheism would refine and make us better not just deriding theism.

tintingz:
Lol, you also mean the professor will look at everyone exam sheet page by page in the exam hall? Where does that happen?

Go back and read what i posted properly.

tintingz:

Oga, that professor does not know the future, he's just studying the student which made him more imperfect, because if he does know the future he won't bother checking any student exam sheet, he would score the student F before the exam sef, now that's not freewill.

Does the Prof Know that his student would fail because he saw the student writing nonsense during examination?! Is the Prof writing the exam for the student?! Did the Prof force the student to write nonsense?! Does the student have the capacity to learn and write the correct thing?!

tintingz:

An all knowing entity doesn't need to study you before knowing your results, he doesn't need to interact, he knows long before you even think of the action. Kindly stop using that weak analogy.

The all knowing entity gave you the freedom to choose! The reason you are human with intellect and not a goat! You have the capacity to make informed decisions and choices, it is not by accident and you are not forced, you are responsible for your actions and would surely account for them!

tintingz:

Ok, assuming the professor interacts with the students and can determine who will pass and fail, he can simply score them before the exam, wether the students did well or not, the scores are already written, it has been destined. Now that's not freewill. Infact exam is useless in this case.

But the Prof being a just man gave each student the same opportunity to prove themselves so that there would be evidence to show the student that he failed on his own! Again, the Prof wouldn't write the exams for the students, and he surely wouldn't fail the student if he writes the correct answers! Remember, the Prof had already done what is expected of him and even more! The outcome of the examination is dependent on the student's performance and not on what the Prof knows!

tintingz:

Humans are not perfect in the first place and God knows that, why then is he punishing when he already knew humans will err?

I am intelligent, loving, caring and I know my baby will crawl to that naked wire, what is the right thing to do?

Of course we aren't perfect, and that is why the window of repentance and forgiveness is always open till death beckons.

The baby needs to be protected by you, cos the baby isn't equipped to make decisions yet! You on the other hand, knows better, but still went on to make a bad decision! Is God to be blamed for this?! Even at that, God still wants you to make the right decision and continues to give you respite, but do you care?!

tintingz:

If God know I will be a Christian then he knows, if he knows I will be a Rastafarian then he knows, the ultimate thing is he know the end of it beforehand.

Yeah, God Knows, but it isn't God's decision or choice for you, you are always the one that makes the choices! By the way, the end of it all is made clear to all, it is either good or bad!

tintingz:

I don't believe in any imaginary master in the sky watching us like 3D.

God know I will eat by 8Pm, then It has been destined I will eat by 8pm, I've no choice over it, if my choice contradicts God's knowledge then he's not all knowing.

Lol, is it possible for you not to eat by 8pm?! Is God or anyone that is forcing you to eat by 8pm?! What are the other things you could possibly do at 8pm?! Can it be something that is unheard of in the whole universe?! And at the end of the day, isn't it your choice to do whatever you want at 8pm?! God Knows everything, but it is still you choice!

tintingz:

You are not outside the universe or are you, can you reason outside this universe or experience outside this universe?

If God has written down all my choices, there is no freewill. Don't you see how contradicting you sound?

Of course we are all bound by the realities of our existence in this world, thus, you can't possibly make choices that are outside of what is possible in this universe! The Knowledge of all belongs to God! So God gave you the freedom to make your own choices which are bound in this world/ universe, and my friend, there are consequences...If you do not like it, perhaps take the next available shuttle outside the universe!

tintingz:

Nature doesn't have any choice, nature works according to their natural order, God in other hands has choices to make, he has the power to correct his mistakes(if he's loving) but no he did the opposite.

This is ridiculous! Did God inform you that there are mistakes or you are assuming these occurrences are/were mistakes?! If there is a natural order, where is this order coming from?! Is the order with a purpose? If yes what is the purpose, and if no, why is it an order?!

tintingz:

If there is a place that is good and perfect then that makes this world meaningless, if God actually want his creation there, we shouldn't be here doing some silly test.

If God knew he's going to kill those poor innocent children in Sodom why then created them? It's only a sadist maniac that behave that way.

Naah, this world is worthless, not meaningless! The meaning of this world is what I have pointed out to you earlier which is about being responsible and having a purpose! But unfortunately for you, you cannot escape this "silly test" cos you are bound to this world and all the laws/orders that governs it including actions and the consequences of such actions! You are free to whine and rant, but it doesn't change anything! By the way, God actually wants you to be in paradise, but you are the one refusing it, you have chosen the life of this world as the only one you want with all the imperfections and "evils"...It is your choice, and I can't force you otherwise!

I know the glass is always half empty in your world view. God created the children and killed them to put them all in paradise regardless of the crimes of their parents or community! Paradise is a better place for them than living in this imperfect and evil world. You not believing in paradise doesn't change anything, death is a reality, and everyone will surely die at one point in time!

aadoiza:

Thank you, for this.

You are welcome bro

tintingz:
Again God is not the only supernatural that's known in history. How many times will I say this?

Atheism/atheists position is lack of belief in God/s and this is religion section, are we suppose to be talking about romance?

I'm not obsessed with theism lol, I've other important things doing, I only come here to have fun and make una reason.

How do you intend to convince illogical theists? There is no way.

They will go out of their intelligence most times to defend their imaginary almighty friend. Can't you see how ridiculous they have become trying to make sense out of nonsense? People that faults science and believe a medieval book? Stop wasting your time dear friend.

The funniest one is sino, who is fond of bringing illogical analogies into arguments .
Can you imagine? Does the professor know beforehand that the student will fail? Lol. Isn't the professor curious about who's going to pass or who's going to fail?

This thing is very straightforward, did God know that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit before creating them or was he eager to know what they would do? Whatever the answer to that question is will always fault the concept of a God.

I salute your doggedness though. But this is an advice, these ones here are mediocrities when it comes to reasoning. Their logical faculties were tampered with deeply from childhood. Except, and only except they sit down and take themselves to it, they will not bow to your positions, because they are filled with theistic ego.

Akin1212:


How do you intend to convince illogical theists? There is no way.

They will go out of their intelligence most times to defend their imaginary almighty friend. Can't you see how ridiculous they have become trying to make sense out of nonsense? People that faults science and believe a medieval book? Stop wasting your time dear friend.

The funniest one is sino, who is fond of bringing illogical analogies into arguments .
Can you imagine? Does the professor know beforehand that the student will fail? Lol. Isn't the professor curious about who's going to pass or who's going to fail?

This thing is very straightforward, did God know that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit before creating them or was he eager to know what they would do? Whatever the answer to that question is will always fault the concept of a God.

I salute your doggedness though. But this is an advice, these ones here are mediocrities when it comes to reasoning. Their logical faculties were tampered with deeply from childhood. Except, and only except they sit down and take themselves to it, they will not bow to your positions, because they are filled with theistic ego.

The Prof knows beforehand that students who write exams would either pass or fail! But here he sees a student in the examination hall writing nonsense! At that point in time, the Prof has a beforehand knowledge that the student will fail! So does this fault the concept of a Prof in the University system?!

You my friend have the capacity to reason properly and also reason stupidly (except you do have a congenial stupidity disorder ), should it be the fault of God(or whatever brought you to existence) if you start reasoning stupidly?!

Let me help you before you misconstrue my post, you know not listening in class and not reading your lecture notes is indeed stupid, but you chose to do so and started writing nonsense in the exam, instead of taking responsibility for your failure, you started ranting about your hatred for the Prof! So who is to be blamed for your failure?!

Adam and Eve disobeyed God, fortunately for them, they knew they were in the wrong for disobeying God, and sought forgiveness and God forgave them. Out of the mercy and love of God is the fact that you being imperfect, can misbehave, but you can also make amends and seek forgiveness, you are given this opportunity everyday till your last breath...But it is all illogical to you (even though it is what reasonable people do when they fail, they acknowledge their faults and make amends), you dig your heels in and stand by your atheistic convictions...And it is okay, after all, it is your choice and decision, not mine!

sino:


Go back and read what i posted properly.



Does the Prof Know that his student would fail because he saw the student writing nonsense during examination?! Is the Prof writing the exam for the student?! Did the Prof force the student to write nonsense?! Does the student have the capacity to learn and write the correct thing?!

A professor studying a student before knowing the outcome of the student results is not perfect!

Do you understand what an ALL KNOWING means?

Does this mean God study his creation before making decisions? Then God must be a leaner, an imperfect God.

If a professor have already know the actions, choices of the students and already given scores long before the exam, the students don't have freewill in this case. An unserious student can simply study well and did well in exam but still fail since the professor has score him before the exam. The professor has taken away the choice of the student even if the student pass and if you say the professor will change the scores after the exam then that professor is not perfect, doesn't know everything.

Your logic is flawed.

The all knowing entity gave you the freedom to choose! The reason you are human with intellect and not a goat! You have the capacity to make informed decisions and choices, it is not by accident and you are not forced, you are responsible for your actions and would surely account for them!

It is not about the actions I make freely, it is about someone who know my actions long before was born!

Imagine i know all your actions, choices and I write them down in a book and you follow every damn thing written in that book, do you think you have freewill? Won't you feel bound to the book of destiny, won't you think I'm some god controlling your life?

I'm tired of explaining these implications to you.

But the Prof being a just man gave each student the same opportunity to prove themselves so that there would be evidence to show the student that he failed on his own! Again, the Prof wouldn't write the exams for the students, and he surely wouldn't fail the student if he writes the correct answers! Remember, the Prof had already done what is expected of him and even more! The outcome of the examination is dependent on the student's performance and not on what the Prof knows!

Showing evidence is not the case, you're simply showing them they have no freewill, they have been graded before the exam.

What evidence does the prof has before scoring them before the exam?

If a professor is waiting for a student to write exam before scoring them then the professor is not perfect, the reason exam was conducted in the first place.

Your argument is getting more illogical.

Of course we aren't perfect, and that is why the window of repentance and forgiveness is always open till death beckons.

Window of repentance is meaningless when God already know who will ask for forgiveness and who will not, he already know who he will forgive.

There is no point of repentance when God already know the end of everything long before creation, except God doesn't know all.

If God know beforehand mr A will repent next year, it has been destined he will repent no matter his choices.

The baby needs to be protected by you, cos the baby isn't equipped to make decisions yet! You on the other hand, knows better, but still went on to make a bad decision! Is God to be blamed for this?! Even at that, God still wants you to make the right decision and continues to give you respite, but do you care?!

Exactly!

The baby is not intelligent yet, the adults is intelligent, that's how humans are to God they are not perfect, not all knowing and can err, since God who is said to be perfect and all knowing is aware of this what is the right thing to do?

Yeah, God Knows, but it isn't God's decision or choice for you, you are always the one that makes the choices! By the way, the end of it all is made clear to all, it is either good or bad!

Whose decision is it when he created humans? Whose decision is it when he gave freewill and destiny? Whose decision is it when he allowed evil to exist? Did humans ask God they want this?

Answer this and know how illogical you sound.

Lol, is it possible for you not to eat by 8pm?! Is God or anyone that is forcing you to eat by 8pm?! What are the other things you could possibly do at 8pm?! Can it be something that is unheard of in the whole universe?! And at the end of the day, isn't it your choice to do whatever you want at 8pm?! God Knows everything, but it is still you choice!

If God know beforehand I will eat by 8pm, then it has been destined, if I eat by 9pm and contradicts God's knowledge then he's not all knowing and not perfect!

Simple logic it is a problem.

Of course we are all bound by the realities of our existence in this world, thus, you can't possibly make choices that are outside of what is possible in this universe! The Knowledge of all belongs to God! So God gave you the freedom to make your own choices which are bound in this world/ universe, and my friend, there are consequences...If you do not like it, perhaps take the next available shuttle outside the universe!

Sigh!

This is ridiculous! Did God inform you that there are mistakes or you are assuming these occurrences are/were mistakes?! If there is a natural order, where is this order coming from?! Is the order with a purpose? If yes what is the purpose, and if no, why is it an order?!

For an all knowing God to give rules shows he doesn't know what he's doing. For him to create humans perfectly and we evolve shows he made mistakes. You can't be perfect and all knowing and again give your perfect android a guideline, is there mistakes somewhere?

The order is coming from nature, they are doing what they are suppose to do that's their purpose.

Naah, this world is worthless, not meaningless! The meaning of this world is what I have pointed out to you earlier which is about being responsible and having a purpose! But unfortunately for you, you cannot escape this "silly test" cos you are bound to this world and all the laws/orders that governs it including actions and the consequences of such actions! You are free to whine and rant, but it doesn't change anything! By the way, God actually wants you to be in paradise, but you are the one refusing it, you have chosen the life of this world as the only one you want with all the imperfections and "evils"...It is your choice, and I can't force you otherwise!

This world is meaningless in religion point of view, for you to strive for another world which is perfect show this world is meaningless. Everything you do is meaningless here but still meaningless in the meaningless fairyland.

I know the glass is always half empty in your world view. God created the children and killed them to put them all in paradise regardless of the crimes of their parents or community! Paradise is a better place for them than living in this imperfect and evil world. You not believing in paradise doesn't change anything, death is a reality, and everyone will surely die at one point in time!

God purposely killed the children that did nothing wrong, that's a sadist behavior.

Paradise is meaningless, imagine a world without no purpose for eternity just humping and humping , infact people in paradise will get tired of that place, the atmosphere will be ridiculous.

Akin1212:


How do you intend to convince illogical theists? There is no way.

They will go out of their intelligence most times to defend their imaginary almighty friend. Can't you see how ridiculous they have become trying to make sense out of nonsense? People that faults science and believe a medieval book? Stop wasting your time dear friend.

The funniest one is sino, who is fond of bringing illogical analogies into arguments .
Can you imagine? Does the professor know beforehand that the student will fail? Lol. Isn't the professor curious about who's going to pass or who's going to fail?

This thing is very straightforward, did God know that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit before creating them or was he eager to know what they would do? Whatever the answer to that question is will always fault the concept of a God.

I salute your doggedness though. But this is an advice, these ones here are mediocrities when it comes to reasoning. Their logical faculties were tampered with deeply from childhood. Except, and only except they sit down and take themselves to it, they will not bow to your positions, because they are filled with theistic ego.

Chief I hail.

I've pointed out the flaws in his illogical analogy like many times, he still repeats the same illogical analogy.

Either he doesn't understand the logic or he's just being dishonest. You know how apologist behave.

sino:


The Prof knows beforehand that students who write exams would either pass or fail! But here he sees a student in the examination hall writing nonsense! At that point in time, the Prof has a beforehand knowledge that the student will fail! So does this fault the concept of a Prof in the University system?!

You my friend have the capacity to reason properly and also reason stupidly (except you do have a congenial stupidity disorder ), should it be the fault of God(or whatever brought you to existence) if you start reasoning stupidly?!

Let me help you before you misconstrue my post, you know not listening in class and not reading your lecture notes is indeed stupid, but you chose to do so and started writing nonsense in the exam, instead of taking responsibility for your failure, you started ranting about your hatred for the Prof! So who is to be blamed for your failure?!

Adam and Eve disobeyed God, fortunately for them, they knew they were in the wrong for disobeying God, and sought forgiveness and God forgave them. Out of the mercy and love of God is the fact that you being imperfect, can misbehave, but you can also make amends and seek forgiveness, you are given this opportunity everyday till your last breath...But it is all illogical to you (even though it is what reasonable people do when they fail, they acknowledge their faults and make amends), you dig your heels in and stand by your atheistic convictions...And it is okay, after all, it is your choice and decision, not mine!

LMAO.

tintingz:
God purposely killed the children that did nothing wrong, that's a sadist behavior.

Paradise is meaningless, imagine a world without no purpose for eternity just humping and humping , infact people in paradise will get tired of that place, the atmosphere will be ridiculous.

Death is but a transition not the end.

A perfect professor = He doesn't need to check your exam sheet, he doesn't need to be curious, infact he doesn't need to interact with you. He has already know your grade long before exam time table and has graded you. That is an all knowing professor.

An imperfect professor = He wait till exam period, He is curious, he go through your exams sheets, study it, think and grade you. This is not an all knowing professor.

For the fact that exams are organized before grading students means both the lecturers and students are not perfect!

Using this analogy of professor and student is ridiculous.

aadoiza:



Death is but a transition not the end.

Are we reincarnating or go to heaven after we die?

Which one should I believe in?

sino:


The Prof knows beforehand that students who write exams would either pass or fail! But here he sees a student in the examination hall writing nonsense! At that point in time, the Prof has a beforehand knowledge that the student will fail! So does this fault the concept of a Prof in the University system?!

You my friend have the capacity to reason properly and also reason stupidly (except you do have a congenial stupidity disorder ), should it be the fault of God(or whatever brought you to existence) if you start reasoning stupidly?!

Let me help you before you misconstrue my post, you know not listening in class and not reading your lecture notes is indeed stupid, but you chose to do so and started writing nonsense in the exam, instead of taking responsibility for your failure, you started ranting about your hatred for the Prof! So who is to be blamed for your failure?!

Adam and Eve disobeyed God, fortunately for them, they knew they were in the wrong for disobeying God, and sought forgiveness and God forgave them. Out of the mercy and love of God is the fact that you being imperfect, can misbehave, but you can also make amends and seek forgiveness, you are given this opportunity everyday till your last breath...But it is all illogical to you (even though it is what reasonable people do when they fail, they acknowledge their faults and make amends), you dig your heels in and stand by your atheistic convictions...And it is okay, after all, it is your choice and decision, not mine!

Lol. You still dont get it, do you?

The argument is to ascertain the omniscient "all knowing" nature of your imaginary friend, God.

Your analogy of the professor does not apply, except if God is as limited as the professor.

A professor knows that students will may pass or fail an exam, but he does not know which one. While a God would already know which one would fail an exam even before the student was born.

A professor is not all knowing, a God is all knowing.

Even if a professor now sees a student writing nonsense, he still does not have the power to stop the student from writing nonsense, because he is not omnipotent, "all powerful." A God can stop a student or anyone from failing in life because he is omnipotent.

On that premise alone, your analogy is illogical and faulty. Its very simple Mr sino. Just be honest with yourself. The argument is based on the omnipotence and omniscient nature of God, of which only the concept of God can attain that level. Nobody else can, not even a professor. No analogy can save you from this, just argue the matter and dont bring strawman arguments, be honest.

tintingz:
A perfect professor = He doesn't need to check your exam sheet, he doesn't need to be curious, infact he doesn't need to interact with you. He has already know your grade long before exam time table and has graded you. That is an all knowing professor.

An imperfect professor = He wait till exam period, He is curious, he go through your exams sheets, study it, think and grade you. This is not an all knowing professor.

For the fact that exams are organized before grading students means both the lecturers and students are not perfect!

Using this analogy of professor and student is ridiculous.

Very very ridiculous, I don't really know why they are very dishonest about this.