To me, Atheism is not foolishness. In fact, it has attractive merits like deeper appreciation and focus for current life which may motivate human creativity or productivity. But it has strange drawbacks that lead many to just conclude it is foolish. I'll list a couple of them.

1. Origin of Life - Life can only originate from pre-existing life. Atheism still can't account for origin of life.
2. Divine justice - No difference between the fate of evil doers and good doers after death. Atheism tend to let people get away with evil.
3. Divine protection - People feel protected by their God/god(s), atheism is abandoning this 'protection', leaving people vulnerable to all harms.

Just my two cents. I hope tintingz, Akin1212 & other atheists now better understand why some theists speak so condescendingly about atheism.

emekaRaj:


Allah didn't tell us how he created everything, he told us about the one's we need to know. Like how man and Jinn was created. And how every living thing was created from water. The Quran is a book of guidance not scientific book, if Quran is a scientific book that seek to explain everything I don't think there would be an end to it.
Quran 18v109 Allah said. say, "if the see were ink for written the word of my lord. Surely, the see would be exhausted before the word of my Lord will be finish. Even if we brought another see like it for its aid."

You don't understand the question.

From the beginning was their any pre-existing materials Allah used to create the universe or he just did it out of nothingness?

usermane:
To me, Atheism is not foolishness. In fact, it has attractive merits like deeper appreciation and focus for current life which may motivate human creativity or productivity. But it has strange drawbacks that lead many to just conclude it is foolish. I'll list a couple of them.

Ok

1. Origin of Life - Life can only originate from pre-existing life. Atheism still can't account for origin of life.

No one knows the origin of life. Science have theories, religions have fairytales, mythology.

2. Divine justice - No difference between the fate of evil doers and good doers after death. Atheism tend to let people get away with evil.

God who allowed evil to exist should have stop it but he did nothing and wants to punish his creation for what he caused, that alone is not fair. Life itself is not fair.

We don't let people get away with evil, there are laws that covers that. But for finite entity to be punished for eternity doesn't make any sense. There's no proof for afterlife, it's just a delusion religious people use to find comfort.

3. Divine protection - People feel protected by their God/god(s), atheism is abandoning this 'protection', leaving people vulnerable to all harms.

Lol, God does not protect anybody even in his worship place. Divine protection is imaginary.

Just my two cents. I hope tintingz, Akin1212 & other atheists now better understand why some theists speak so condescendingly about atheism.

This makes theism foolishness if these are your reasons.

tintingz:
Science is not base on faith. You're contradicting the definition of science.

Changing and updating research is the best way for humanity develop/evolve, you can see the impact of science and technology today. We can't stuck to one place forever that's backwardness.

So Science varies according to time. Probably the 14 billion years may be incorrect in few years to come as research will still improve further!

tintingz:
Science do their research with honesty.

The methods to determine the age of the universe are not assumptions but experiments that have been tested many times.
The accuracy so far is 99.1%.

I once posted a research by a Professor in UK that proposed that clay may have been the material from which humans were created. I guess that professor was not honest with his research till it was published internationally. Or maybe it just doesn't go well with your atheistic view!

Anyways, your scientist says life may have began in space too o.

https://futurism.com/scientists-find-new-evidence-life-begun-space

Too many "may haves".....

Probabilities and assumptions!

Rashduct4luv:


So Science varies according to time. Probably the 14 billion years may be incorrect in few years to come as research will still improve further!

Yes if new research is found it will be updated.

That's how science work and that's it job, to explain every phenomena in the natural world.

The age of the universe determined by scientists is accurately high and agreed by science community.

I once posted a research by a Professor in UK that proposed that clay may have been the material from which humans were created. I guess that professor was not honest with his research till it was published internationally. Or maybe it just doesn't go well with your atheistic view!

Anyways, your scientist says life may have began in space too o.

https://futurism.com/scientists-find-new-evidence-life-begun-space

Too many "may haves".....

Probabilities and assumptions!

Dont you see they are being honest using the word "may"?

Religions don't use the word "may", everything concerning their beliefs or faith is certain to them something they can't even prove. That is dishonesty and delusion.

tintingz:
Where is the source of this report that someone was fired because of his belief?

I'm not talking about Jesus alone , I'm talking about religion, Jesus didn't lived long he died 34 years or so.

Religion has made many people do crazy things, you can witness them yourself.

The position of atheism is lack in belief in God/s, where is the delusion there?

How many of God's prophets lived a lavish lifestyle?
With or without religion, people would do crazy things. MC Oluomo was reportedly attacked recently. Did the attack has any religious connotations? People killed and died for America to be what it is today. Did all the wars that have been fought have religious undertones? When people destroyed properties worth millions in the recent French protest was it because of religion?
When the US fought Cuba in the bay of pigs was it because of religion? When a man utd fan ran through a set of jubilating barca fans with a car killing more than 10 people was for religion? Has religion been compromised? Yes. We're our own problems.

You atheists believe you monkeys are your cousins. Ain't that delusion

aadoiza:


How many of God's prophets lived a lavish lifestyle?
With or without religion, people would do crazy things. MC Oluomo was reportedly attacked recently. Did the attack has any religious connotations? People killed and died for America to be what it is today. Did all the wars that have been fought have religious undertones? When people destroyed properties worth millions in the recent French protest was it because of religion?
When the US fought Cuba in the bay of pigs was it because of religion? When a man utd fan ran through a set of jubilating barca fans with a car killing more than 10 people was for religion? Has religion been compromised? Yes. We're our own problems.

You are saying religion is useless in this case right?

You can't tell me religion is not part of the killing and slavery in world history.

You atheists believe you monkeys are your cousins. Ain't that delusion

We shares a large DNA with chimps 99% and other hominid species, we share common ancestors with them, yes we're relative to them. It's a fact wether you like it or not, it's not a delusion.

tintingz:
You are saying religion is useless in this case right?

You can't tell me religion is not part of the killing and slavery in world history.

We shares a large DNA with chimps 99% and other hominid species, we share common ancestors with them, yes we're relative to them. It's a fact wether you like it or not, it's not a delusion.

I don't know how to make you understand or you just wanna act funny.
They're your relatives not mine. I have not seen anywhere where it was related that monkeys were parts of human families. I wish you knew how absurd you sound or you could provide a monkey cousin of yours as a proof.

Similarities in DNA mean nothing but a proof of a common creator.

aadoiza:

I don't know how to make you understand or you just wanna act funny.
They're your relatives not mine. I have not seen anywhere where it was related that monkeys were parts of human families. I wish you knew how absurd you sound or you could provide a monkey cousin of yours as a proof.

Similarities in DNA mean nothing but a proof of a common creator.

Dude please go and educate yourself about evolutionary biology.

BeansAndBread:
They shout science science science, but all they do is speculative science which is a pure BELIEF. There's no difference between these atheists and theists, they believe whatever scientists tell them. Whenever the scientist change mouth, they follow suit like robots. No substance!

I was banned in one Igbo Muslim thread, Igbo Muslims Amaka Igbo Christians ajoku ewe

Exactly. Thank you, Joor. I always tell them that they only believe not know science. No difference between theists and atheists here.

tintingz:
Dude please go and educate yourself about evolutionary biology.

Evolution is the worst nonsense under the cover of science out there. Use your brain and stop believing like a theist.

aadoiza:

Evolution is the worst nonsense under the cover of science out there. Use your brain and stop believing like a theist.

Evolution has evidences even theist scientists cant deny it. Sigh.

tintingz:
Evolution has evidences even theist scientists cant deny it. Sigh.

Read more, my friend..

aadoiza:

Read more, my friend..

Sigh. Irony.

tintingz:
Ok

No one knows the origin of life. Science have theories, religions have fairytales, mythology.

God who allowed evil to exist should have stop it but he did nothing and wants to punish his creation for what he caused, that alone is not fair. Life itself is not fair.

Fair point.

We don't let people get away with evil, there are laws that covers that. But for finite entity to be punished for eternity doesn't make any sense. There's no proof for afterlife, it's just a delusion religious people use to find comfort.

The laws only deals with those who are caught or held accountable by the authorities. Those who escape or are really powerful never face the law.

Lol, God does not protect anybody even in his worship place. Divine protection is imaginary.

Well, as long as the theists feel their prayers are getting answered, they don't care if it is imaginary or not. Their perception of reality is not necessarily grounded in rationality.

Make no mistake, my intent is not to defend theists. I just thought if you wonder why they undermine atheism, then I could help by sharing their issues with atheism.

Here are two more reasons theists dismiss atheism.

4- Eternal Life: People love life, they want to believe death is not the end. In return for a righteous life, theism promises them eternal life after death, while atheism doesn't.

5- What if God exist after all: Even if there is 99.9% proof for non-existence of God, atheism can be risky. For some, it is safer to continue in theism till death and never meet God than to turn atheist, only to come face to face with God after death.

Peace.

usermane:


Fair point.

The laws only deals with those who are caught or held accountable by the authorities. Those who escape or are really powerful never face the law.

And do you have evidence they will be purnish afterlife? Even those that are good will still be purnished by your God.

Humans are not perfect, we can't get 100% just.

Well, as long as the theists feel their prayers are getting answered, they don't care if it is imaginary or not. Their perception of reality is not necessarily grounded in rationality.

This is delusion. No prayers is getting answered!

Make no mistake, my intent is not to defend theists. I just thought if you wonder why they undermine atheism, then I could help by sharing their issues with atheism.

Ok

Here are two more reasons theists dismiss atheism.

4- Eternal Life: People love life, they want to believe death is not the end. In return for a righteous life, theism promises them eternal life after death, while atheism doesn't.

Most humans wish is to live forever in a perfect world which is called paradise or Valhalla or whatever it is.

Paradise is purposeless and meaningless, imagine living eternity without no purpose, no meaningful adventurous life.

Atheism don't have dogmas or fairytales to delude people, our position is clear, we lack belief in God/s.

Like Karl Marx said, religion is the opium of the people.

5- What if God exist after all: Even if there is 99.9% proof for non-existence of God, atheism can be risky. For some, it is safer to continue in theism till death and never meet God than to turn atheist, only to come face to face with God after death.

Peace.

This is like you are not sure of something but you have full confident on it. It's called false hope. There are over thousands of Gods people believed in, that alone is a delusional joke and to show humans made Gods.

Even if God exist, it won't be the maniac Abrahamic God who understand nothing, in fact the God that would exist will applaud atheists for their honesty.

It will be a great regret when you now know you wasted your whole life believing there is an imaginary master above and an imaginary world.

tintingz:
The question is very valid, the question of God existence has been a debate for centuries. Why do you think I don't need to ask the question? It Is like saying I don't need to ask question if Santa exist in the North Pole or leprechaun in the rainbow or snake that swallow the miilion Naira?

This is wrong, the existence of God is a fitrah (natural inclination) of man throughout the years in different communities, nations, etc. This is why every community or nation has something they worship as a supreme Being. Now what they call him isn't our concern.

The proof of God existence is needed and we need to know which of these Gods exist.

You're a very mischievous person, when you've been pushed to the corner and given undeniable proofs, you begin to pour out irrational tantrums like; Obatala, Zeus, Flying Spagetti, bla bla bla.

God exists, this is self evident truth, anything showing all the features and hallmarks of handiwork, craftsmanship, contrivance and design is designed and is made intentionally (for whatever purpose or wisdom it exhibits). This is actually a self-evident truth that does not need evidence.

I didn't say God cannot be the creator of the universe, I'm saying there's no proof that connect to any Gods creating the universe, every religion are claiming their God created the universe, you yourself don't have proof you just read it from a book. We can also claim Aliens created the universe or the universe created itself.

So how did the universe and life come into existence? Was it matter that did everything? And I'm not talking about other gods, I'm a Muslim and my stand point is with Islam, so bore me with those your pathetic rhetorics.

Due to the timeline we may or cannot know who or what causes the universe to exist.

Then you're basing your belief on conjecture science and there's no difference between you and a theist. You scream science science science, but the science method cannot be used to prove your point.

Scientific theories about the beginning of the universe is more reliable and make sense than fairytales religions claim.

The scientific theories are conjectures and speculative, they aren't empirical science which can be proved using the scientific method. So you've got no point here. Allaah said regarding those conjectures and guesses those scientists present as facts: "They do but conjecture (give opinions) and they do but guess" (6:116)

If your God is all knowing, he should mention the steps not fairytales.

Looks like you're not okay, so you want God to come meet you Taiwo and narrate how he created everything step by step. Allaah (SWT) already mentioned how He created in the Quran, we all know Google was designed and created but you as an ordinary doesn't know the steps involved except for the inventors. And if the inventor doesn't show he created something that doesn't in anyway negate he created it. Your analogies and double standards are sick and irritating.

Google has a creator and we know it creator, how he created google can be tested.

What exactly do you want to test in God's creation? every intelligent work is based on design. The universe, google, playstation, iPhone, android, etc are based on designs. The universe and all life has a creator and we all know him.

Ibn Taymiyyah said, "Corroboration and affirmation of a Maker is firmly-rooted in the hearts of all men and jinn, it is from the binding necessities of their creation, necessary with respect to them..."(Dar' al-Ta'aarud 8/482).

Humans have been hard-wired or primed to believe in a Creator. This is why throughout the history of man, we've always tried to worship something believing it to be a Supreme Being. Islam however, corrects the wrong perception we have with respect to this creator and ensures we worship Him the way we ought to.

The universe may have a cause, who or what is this cause is unknown, there is no evidence, therefore i have no reason to believe in any creator which made me an atheist. I have no evidence of your God existence, you're the one making the claims he exist, provide us what to look into for his existence and let's scrutinize it. This is how I can proof to you your God doesn't exist.

I'm dealing with "self evident truth" while you're dealing with conjectures. And as I said earlier, anything showing all the features and hallmarks of handiwork, craftsmanship, contrivance and design is designed and is made intentionally (for whatever purpose or wisdom it exhibits). This is actually a self-evident truth that does not need evidence.

So in this case, you're the one to provide an alternative explaining the origin of the universe and life, by the only alternative (complex, purposeful systems of cause and effect come to be in complete absence of knowledge, will, power and through random undirected processes and that 'design' and 'purpose' are not real but only apparent and illusory).

As Muslim I believe in the default, self-evident truth, there is a knowing, powerful, skilled, wilful creator, this is known through innate intuition (fitrah), sensory perception, reason and also revelation - as well as the sum whole of all human activity in the fields of industrial and technological enterprise. The universe and life are rationally intelligible and investigable, indicating they are designed and this is an implict assumption that all scientific activity rests upon.

Therefore, tintingz, the onus is on you to prove through empirical science, through the scientific method, that something intelligent, rational, complex, goal-oriented comes from and by nothing.

BeansAndBread:


This is wrong, the existence of God is a fitrah (natural inclination) of man throughout the years in different communities, nations, etc. This is why every community or nation has something they worship as a supreme Being. Now what they call him isn't our concern.

What caused the universe to exist has been a question right from when humans are being so curious, curiosity with ignorance led to different myths about Gods and other supernatural claims. Out of ignorance Gods were filled in the gaps. Man created gods. You should ask yourself why are there different gods with their stories in each society?

It is not about what they call God, its about what is this God, what is God like?

Ofcos it is logical to ask what caused us into existence, filling the gaps with God/s or supernatural without no evidence is fallacy, appealing to ignorance.

You're a very mischievous person, when you've been pushed to the corner and given undeniable proofs, you begin to pour out irrational tantrums like; Obatala, Zeus, Flying Spagetti, bla bla bla.

Lol, what undeniable proof have you presented about your God? No dey go strawman.

Proof your God exist and why you think he's the true God.

God exists, this is self evident truth, anything showing all the features and hallmarks of handiwork, craftsmanship, contrivance and design is designed and is made intentionally (for whatever purpose or wisdom it exhibits). This is actually a self-evident truth that does not need evidence.

Ofcos every single existing entity has a design including your god, Who created your God?

Aliens exist infact unicorns exist.

So how did the universe and life come into existence? Was it matter that did everything? And I'm not talking about other gods, I'm a Muslim and my stand point is with Islam, so bore me with those your pathetic rhetorics.

Again we don't certainly know how the universe and life came into existence, the timeline is far far behind us except we travel back in time. But scientists were able to come up with theories that comes with some evidences, they are able to explain some phenomena in the universe.

So why do you believe Allah created us not Mbombo or Brahma? Why did you follow the creation story version in the Quran?

Then you're basing your belief on conjecture science and there's no difference between you and a theist. You scream science science science, but the science method cannot be used to prove your point.

Science methods have been proven countless times to the point that if we destroy every scientific research in the world and re-start afresh again, we will still get same results! It is more reliable than religious fairytales.

Scientific methods can be used to prove any point in this our universe, my arguments is based on realistic view of the world, materialistic view of the world not superstitions and fairytales.

So oga, can you explain how Muhammed rode on a flying donkey to the sky? Maybe using science.

The scientific theories are conjectures and speculative, they aren't empirical science which can be proved using the scientific method. So you've got no point here. Allaah said regarding those conjectures and guesses those scientists present as facts: "They do but conjecture (give opinions) and they do but guess" (6:116)

Lol ignorance.

Please define scientific theories?

Looks like you're not okay, so you want God to come meet you Taiwo and narrate how he created everything step by step.

And whats wrong with this? God cant do it ni?

Allaah (SWT) already mentioned how He created in the Quran, we all know Google was designed and created but you as an ordinary doesn't know the steps involved except for the inventors. And if the inventor doesn't show he created something that doesn't in anyway negate he created it. Your analogies and double standards are sick and irritating.

How google was created can be studied and proven where it came from, the inventor exist. The inventor didn't came out of nowhere.

Allah only mention myths, there are other similar myths like the creation stories in the Quran.

What exactly do you want to test in God's creation? every intelligent work is based on design. The universe, google, playstation, iPhone, android, etc are based on designs. The universe and all life has a creator and we all know him.

Who created your God?

And no you don't know that true God.

Ibn Taymiyyah said, "Corroboration and affirmation of a Maker is firmly-rooted in the hearts of all men and jinn, it is from the binding necessities of their creation, necessary with respect to them..."(Dar' al-Ta'aarud 8/482).

Who then is the maker of your God?

Why do we need to worship God?

Humans have been hard-wired or primed to believe in a Creator. This is why throughout the history of man, we've always tried to worship something believing it to be a Supreme Being. Islam however, corrects the wrong perception we have with respect to this creator and ensures we worship Him the way we ought to.

The same way we are hard-wired to create superman, spiderman, batman etc.

It is logical to think there is a creator, it is illogical to think the creator has no prime creator.

And it is illogical to think a perfect creator is so concern about human affairs living in tiny dust in the milky way galaxy, imagine a perfect creator concern about virgins. That's ridiculous.

I'm dealing with "self evident truth" while you're dealing with conjectures. And as I said earlier, anything showing all the features and hallmarks of handiwork, craftsmanship, contrivance and design is designed and is made intentionally (for whatever purpose or wisdom it exhibits). This is actually a self-evident truth that does not need evidence.

Please present the evidence how the existence of the universe is connected to your God Allah. Please don't quote from that fairy book.

So in this case, you're the one to provide an alternative explaining the origin of the universe and life, by the only alternative (complex, purposeful systems of cause and effect come to be in complete absence of knowledge, will, power and through random undirected processes and that 'design' and 'purpose' are not real but only apparent and illusory).

The big bang has explained this.

As Muslim I believe in the default, self-evident truth, there is a knowing, powerful, skilled, wilful creator, this is known through innate intuition (fitrah), sensory perception, reason and also revelation - as well as the sum whole of all human activity in the fields of industrial and technological enterprise. The universe and life are rationally intelligible and investigable, indicating they are designed and this is an implict assumption that all scientific activity rests upon.

If your God is the creator of this universe then he's not perfect.

And can you tell me how an undesigned universe would be?

Therefore, tintingz, the onus is on you to prove through empirical science, through the scientific method, that something intelligent, rational, complex, goal-oriented comes from and by nothing.

Lol, I don't believe we came out of nothing, you are the one to prove God created the universe out of nothing!

tintingz:
What caused the universe to exist as been a question right from when humans are beginning to curious, curiosity led to different myths about Gods and other supernatural claims.

Man being curious about the universe and its contents isn't the reason why man moved to God, but it's our natural inclination or innate disposition embed in us by God. The Prophet said every child is born a Muslim, as a child tends to know God, this is innate disposition or fitrah. This is why even children tend to believe in God:

Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.
He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html

Even children know and it's natural, so it's not because of curiosity bla bla bla

Out of ignorance Gods were filled in the gaps. Man created gods. You should ask yourself why are there different gods with their stories in each society?

This isn't my contention, you're just jumping into another point when you've not established the other. The point you just raised isn't a rebuttal as it buttresses my point that man has always believed in God, a Supreme Being. When you understand this point, then we can move further to know which God is right or wrong.

It is not about what they call God, its about what is this God, what is God like?

Why must you see Him? Or are you saying you can't accept a gift from a benefactor without seeing him? Or if someone sends you a gift, because you didn't see him automatically translates he doesn't exist?

Lol, what undeniable proof have you presented about your God? No dey go strawman.

Which one is strawman again here? The existence of God is "self-evident truth", you're the one to prove he doesn't exist. It isn't about my God, fact remains everything has a design and the universe has a design. One with power, will, reason to create.

Proof your God exist and why you think he's the true God.

Prove He doesn't exist, I've been asking you to do so since. I'm not to prove, you are. As an atheist, if God didn't create, give us your own version. I'm sure you're probably favor materialism, how did the universe come about? You don't get to question us.

Ofcos every single existing entity has a design including your god, Who created your God?

One of Allaah's names is As Samaad meaning "the Eternal", He wasn't created and He isn't like his creatures. He isn't bound by our world, so this question doesn't apply to Him. And by the way, If everything has a designer, why are you then denying the existence of a creator? Are you confused or what?

Again we don't certainly know how the universe and life came into existence, the timeline is far far behind us except we travel back in time. But scientists were able to come up with theories that comes with some evidences, there are able to explain some phenomena in the universe.

Can you shed some light on some of these theories and evidences?

So why do you believe Allah created us not Mbombo or Brahma? Why did you follow the creation version in the Quran?

When you believe in God, then you'll know why I believe in Allaah.

Science methods have been proven countless times to the point that if we destroy every scientific research in the world and re-start afresh again, we will still get same results! It is more reliable than religious fairytales.

Scientific method to prove evolution that we came from fish or those nonsense? Or scientific method proved the origin of the universe? Don't kee me with laugh I hope you know the meaning of scientific method sha?

Science methods can be used to prove any point in this our universe, my arguments is based on realistic view of the world, materialistic view of the world not superstitions and fairytales.

Hope you know materialism cannot be used to explain all the points that go on in the universe?

So oga, can you explain how Muhammed rode on a flying donkey to the sky? Maybe using science.

I should explain what exactly? The name of the animal is "Buraq" not donkey, the Arabic word never mentioned donkey, it only compared it sizes (range) with a donkey and a mule. It had a wings, and of course, I don't have to explain how flight is done.

Please define scientific theories?

Please define it for me! No one witnessed the creation, so whatever the scientists mentioned are conjectures. I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants. Quran 18:51

And whats wrong with this? God cant do it ni?

Lmao, you're not serious. "Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him?" Quran 25:43

How google was created can be studied, the inventor exist. The inventor didn't came out of nowhere.

So the creations of God cannot be studied and replicated? Bionics which is basically the study of biological methods and systems to the study and design of engineering systems. Bioengineers have studied the parts of the body and have designed stuffs based on them. Google and the universe which has Creators can have their products studied and replicated. It's as simple as this, you don't need to know or see the creator to know they exist. This your point in fact buttresses my stance more.

Allah only mention myths, there are other similar myths like the creation stories in the Quran.

Lol, the thread where you were lectured on the creation of man is still open o

And no you don't know that true God.

Lmao whenever you've been pushed and stucked, you come out with this rhetoric. If you're ready to accept God, then you'll know why my God is the true one.

Why do we need to worship God?

You wake up healthy every morning, eat, sleep, breath free air, and you ask me this foolish question? He doesn't need you, you need him and it's gonna be bad for you if you don't acknowledge him.

The same way we are hard-wired to create superman, spiderman, batman etc.

So dumb, there's no research whatsoever that everyone was hard-wired to create superman, Spider-Man, etc. But same cannot be said with respect to God, there's evidence for it.

It is logical to think there is a creator, it is illogical to think the creator has no prime creator.

I've answered this above already. How did the universe come to being? You claimed you favor materialism, how did the matter form? Was it at random? Something from nothing? How exactly?

And it is illogical to think a perfect creator is so concern about human affairs living in tiny dust in the milky way galaxy, imagine a perfect creator concern about virgins. That's ridiculous.

"And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein" Quran 50:16

Please present the evidence how the existence of the universe is connected to your God Allah. Please don't quote from that fairy book.

Prove He doesn't exist!

The big bang has explained this.

No, it doesn't. The origin of life? How we came to be? Even the Big Bang is a speculation or conjecture, so don't state it as if it's an established fact.

James Peebles (Albert Einstein Professor of Science, Emeritus. Professor of Physics, Emeritus) states, "It is sensible and prudent that people should continue to think about alternatives to the standard model [Big Bang], because the evidence is not all that abundant." Principles of Physical Cosmology, Peebles, P.J.E., Princeton University Press, 1993)

If your God is the creator of this universe then he's not perfect.

Have you ever wondered and studied nature? Have you ever tried to look into DNA and see how marvelous it is? Haven't you seen the effects on the environment done by Deers after the extermination of wolf population? You're insane to make this statement. I think you should watch more of Nat Geo Wild to at least get a glimpse of God's greatness.

And can you tell me how an undesigned universe would be?

You're the atheist not me, so you should answer this question not me!

Lol, I don't believe we came out of nothing, you are the one to prove God created the universe out of nothing!

When did God say he created the universe out of nothing? Show us your theories and how they provided the answer to the creation of the universe and life.

BeansAndBread:


Have you ever wondered and studied nature? Have you ever tried to look into DNA and see how marvelous it is? Haven't you seen the effects on the environment done by Deers after the extermination of wolf population? You're insane to make this statement. I think you should watch more of Nat Geo Wild to at least get a glimpse of God's greatness.

Brother, Allah is the all knowing and as only He can guide... I ask for forgiveness and mercy from Allah, by all indications this apostate has taken his seat in hell because of his insincerity, arrogance and ignorance.
There's a seal upon his heart, I stopped arguing with them on the other thread because I realised him and Akin1212 were insincere, I asked them about Fibonacci numbers, tintinz dodged it tactically, while Akin1212 didn't even comment at all, I asked them about the existence of human giants (which goes against evolution ), tintinz and Akin1212 did as if they did not see it the question, I asked them about Nuclear transmutation and the lack of the ability of scientists to create organic materials from pure elements) tintinz said I shouldn't go off topic(because he focused only evolution and some other nonsense and he thinks that's enough to deny the existence of Allah) he talked about Santa Claus that everyone knows is a myth and he's comparing him to Allah the people that even made it up believe in Allah, I realised his insincerity the more and more we argued. The best Akin1212 could do was when he told me about scientific method and some questions I asked he didn't say anything tangible other talking arrogantly.

BeansAndBread:


Man being curious about the universe and its contents isn't the reason why man moved to God, but it's our natural inclination or innate disposition embed in us by God. The Prophet said every child is born a Muslim, as a child tends to know God, this is innate disposition or fitrah. This is why even children tend to believe in God:

Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.
He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html

Even children know and it's natural, so it's not because of curiosity bla bla bla

Children are not born Muslims! And children are not born automatically to believe in God/s or religion, the study you presented is false and has been debunked Here. It's just an assumed conclusion. There is even one hypothesis they call God gene.

I would like the study to put a baby in the jungle and study the baby till it grow up and let's see the result.

Again curiosity and ignorance led to different superstitions about gods, man created gods!

Man once ignorantly believe Sango, Thor, Zeus, Amadioha etc were the cause of thunder and lightning now that we know how this phenomena works these gods are diminishing/diminished.

Parents and society indoctrinate children to believe in their God/s, you don't believe in Allah because you're born with that knowledge you believe in Allah because your parents taught you and exposure to the society.

This isn't my contention, you're just jumping into another point when you've not established the other. The point you just raised isn't a rebuttal as it buttresses my point that man has always believed in God, a Supreme Being. When you understand this point, then we can move further to know which God is right or wrong.

No, I'm telling you man made gods out of ignorance. Rain, mountains, trees, animals, thunder, sky, oceans, fire and other phenomena were worshipped as gods even till date in some cultures.

I'm very sure there was a time in pre-history humans never believed in gods.

Why must you see Him? Or are you saying you can't accept a gift from a benefactor without seeing him? Or if someone sends you a gift, because you didn't see him automatically translates he doesn't exist?

It simply means I don't know where the gift comes from. You can't just conclude the gift came from your friend Malik without being skeptical and ask questions, you can't conclude without no evidence.

Which one is strawman again here? The existence of God is "self-evident truth", you're the one to prove he doesn't exist. It isn't about my God, fact remains everything has a design and the universe has a design. One with power, will, reason to create.

Even tho the burden of proof is on you who claim God exist, but let me play along, everything has a design right and the universe has a design right?

- God is part of everything, who design God?

- Since I'm without no proof of your God, you claim you have proof, present them and let's scrutinize it. Then I can tell you your God doesn't exist.

Prove He doesn't exist, I've been asking you to do so since. I'm not to prove, you are. As an atheist, if God didn't create, give us your own version. I'm sure you're probably favor materialism, how did the universe come about? You don't get to question us.

Again the burden of proof is on the person who make the claim, I have no proof or clue to look out for to determine if your God exist. I can't suddenly proof a negative, present your proof and let's work on it.

We don't know how the universe came into existence, the best theory for now is the Big Bang that state how the universe formed.

Let's work with logic here not fantasies and fallacies.

One of Allaah's names is As Samaad meaning "the Eternal", He wasn't created and He isn't like his creatures. He isn't bound by our world, so this question doesn't apply to Him. And by the way, If everything has a designer, why are you then denying the existence of a creator? Are you confused or what?

Like I said above let's work with logic not fantasies, Allah being eternal is an assumption, a cognitive bias Muslims made up, you can't prove it you only read it from a book. I can simply be bias and say the universe is eternal.

I'm not denying any creator or first cause or whatever you call it, I'm telling you there is no evidence for this, we don't know how everything came into existence, no evidence pointing to the thousands of gods religions made up, therefore I lack the belief in God/s, I've no reason to believe they exist until these Gods can be proven.

I remain an atheist.

Can you shed some light on some of these theories and evidences?

Please google Big Bang theory, I'm not the one to educate you that.

When you believe in God, then you'll know why I believe in Allaah.

Tell me why you believe In Allah and not other Gods.

Don't chicken out with that lame excuse.

Scientific method to prove evolution that we came from fish or those nonsense? Or scientific method proved the origin of the universe? Don't kee me with laugh I hope you know the meaning of scientific method sha?

Scientific method – body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge, as well as for correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on observable, empirical, reproducible, measurable evidence, and subject to the laws of reasoning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_scientific_method

Again we don't know the origin of life and universe, scientists were able to gather some observations, measurable evidences to come up with theories.

Hope you know materialism cannot be used to explain all the points that go on in the universe?

The universe is compose of natural phenomena, natural is materialistic.

Or is there a spiritual world in this our natural world?

I should explain what exactly? The name of the animal is "Buraq" not donkey, the Arabic word never mentioned donkey, it only compared it sizes (range) with a donkey and a mule. It had a wings, and of course, I don't have to explain how flight is done.

Wether it is a donkey or compare to donkey is not the main question, explain how this flying donkey, unicorn, horse whatever it is was able to fly using scientific method. I want to know how you know such a creature exist and it fly. Provide empirical research.

Please define it for me! No one witnessed the creation, so whatever the scientists mentioned are conjectures. I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants. Quran 18:51

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Scientific theories explain facts which is scientific evidence, it is a combination of research to explain the natural world, it can be dismiss later or accepted.

How can the Quran be used to explain the phenomena in the natural world, what are the methods, can we use the Quran alone to develop the society?

Lmao, you're not serious. "Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him?" Quran 25:43

Why can't God appear and convince me he exist? At least we can read how he was displaying in the Quran.

So the creations of God cannot be studied and replicated? Bionics which is basically the study of biological methods and systems to the study and design of engineering systems. Bioengineers have studied the parts of the body and have designed stuffs based on them. Google and the universe which has Creators can have their products studied and replicated. It's as simple as this, you don't need to know or see the creator to know they exist. This your point in fact buttresses my stance more.

There are available materials existing we can use to replicate things, how did your God created the universe without no materials, nothing?

Lol, the thread where you were lectured on the creation of man is still open o

Who lectured who? Lol.

You mean man was created from silicon? Your fellow Muslim even created another thread telling how dishonest your Muslim brothers are.

The clay creation story has been a cultural myth long before the Quran came.

Lmao whenever you've been pushed and stucked, you come out with this rhetoric. If you're ready to accept God, then you'll know why my God is the true one.

This is lame.

Assuming I accept God(with no evidence) and you can't tell me why your God is the true one, do you think I will still believe in God?

It's either you tell me why your God is the true one or you don't even know why your God is the true one.

You wake up healthy every morning, eat, sleep, breath free air, and you ask me this foolish question? He doesn't need you, you need him and it's gonna be bad for you if you don't acknowledge him.

Post hoc fallacy.

So dumb, there's no research whatsoever that everyone was hard-wired to create superman, Spider-Man, etc. But same cannot be said with respect to God, there's evidence for it.

Lol, we are hard-wired to believe in super Heroes with abilities like gods. Superman is an example.

Humans are hard-wire to imagine fictional things like Muhammad riding on a donkey to the sky just like how Perseus rode on a flying Pegasus.

I've answered this above already. How did the universe come to being? You claimed you favor materialism, how did the matter form? Was it at random? Something from nothing? How exactly?

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

I favor science which tries to explain the phenomena with reasonable methods.

Yes the universe like the galaxies form as a result of randomness, collapsing and colliding and later looks orderly. The universe is both chaotic and orderly.

I DONT KNOW what caused us into existence, if there is a cause/s or the universe caused itself I just don't know. Quit asking me this question how something come from nothing, that's not my position, you're the one to tell me how your God was able to create out of nothing.

{"And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein" Quran 50:16

Fairytale.

Prove He doesn't exist!

How can I proof a negative when you haven't provide any evidence or clue?

Can you prove there's no invisible teapot floating in the space?

No, it doesn't. The origin of life? How we came to be? Even the Big Bang is a speculation or conjecture, so don't state it as if it's an established fact.

James Peebles (Albert Einstein Professor of Science, Emeritus. Professor of Physics, Emeritus) states, "It is sensible and prudent that people should continue to think about alternatives to the standard model [Big Bang], because the evidence is not all that abundant." Principles of Physical Cosmology, Peebles, P.J.E., Princeton University Press, 1993)

Science never claim the Big Bang is fact, it's a theory and best theory to explain the beginning of the universe.

Your 6 days creation story in the Quran is a fiction just like every other fictional story.

Have you ever wondered and studied nature? Have you ever tried to look into DNA and see how marvelous it is? Haven't you seen the effects on the environment done by Deers after the extermination of wolf population? You're insane to make this statement. I think you should watch more of Nat Geo Wild to at least get a glimpse of God's greatness.

Appealing to ignorance, gods of the gap argument.

Ok let's do it like this, I believe an invisible Alien did all this.

Maybe you should try to look into natural disasters and see how chaotic it is.

You're the atheist not me, so you should answer this question not me!

LMAO!

I believe the universe is not perfect and doesn't look like it was designed by a perfect being.

You're the one shouting about the universe is designed and must have a design, a perfect one. Now tell us how an undersigned universe would be?

When did God say he created the universe out of nothing? Show us your theories and how they provided the answer to the creation of the universe and life.

Then tell us where God created the universe from? Did he vomit the universe or what or he magically form the universe from nowhere?

najib632:

Brother, Allah is the all knowing and as only He can guide... I ask for forgiveness and mercy from Allah, by all indications this apostate has taken his seat in hell because of his insincerity, arrogance and ignorance.
There's a seal upon his heart, I stopped arguing with them on the other thread because I realised him and Akin1212 were insincere, I asked them about Fibonacci numbers, tintinz dodged it tactically, while Akin1212 didn't even comment at all, I asked them about the existence of human giants (which goes against evolution ), tintinz and Akin1212 did as if they did not see it the question, I asked them about Nuclear transmutation and the lack of the ability of scientists to create organic materials from pure elements) tintinz said I shouldn't go off topic(because he focused only evolution and some other nonsense and he thinks that's enough to deny the existence of Allah) he talked about Santa Claus that everyone knows is a myth and he's comparing him to Allah the people that even made it up believe in Allah, I realised his insincerity the more and more we argued. The best Akin1212 could do was when he told me about scientific method and some questions I asked he didn't say anything tangible other talking arrogantly.

Red herring!

tintingz:


Red herring!

هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

(Sahih International)
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

-Sura Aal-E-Imran, Ayah 7

najib632:
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

(Sahih International)
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

-Sura Aal-E-Imran, Ayah 7

Lol, fairytale.

usermane:
To me, Atheism is not foolishness. In fact, it has attractive merits like deeper appreciation and focus for current life which may motivate human creativity or productivity. But it has strange drawbacks that lead many to just conclude it is foolish. I'll list a couple of them.

1. Origin of Life - Life can only originate from pre-existing life. Atheism still can't account for origin of life.

Abiogenesis

usermane:


2. Divine justice - No difference between the fate of evil doers and good doers after death. Atheism tend to let people get away with evil.

Why can't the fate be decided before death? Because God isthe God of the dead? People get away with evil fine fine and nothing happens. God will rather allow a 2 year old girl to be raped and punish the rapist when he is dead? That's nonsense.

usermane:
.

Divine protection - People feel protected by their God/god(s), atheism is abandoning this 'protection', leaving people vulnerable to all harms.

Hundreds of people of God died in Congo last year during the ebola outbreak. Thousands have died in Yemen due to hunger. Thousands are living with cancer and other diseases. Where is the divine protection?

usermane:


Just my two cents. I hope tintingz, Akin1212 & other atheists now better understand why some theists speak so condescendingly about atheism.

You haven't said anything reasonable.

najib632:

Brother, Allah is the all knowing and as only He can guide... I ask for forgiveness and mercy from Allah, by all indications this apostate has taken his seat in hell because of his insincerity, arrogance and ignorance.
There's a seal upon his heart, I stopped arguing with them on the other thread because I realised him and Akin1212 were insincere, I asked them about Fibonacci numbers, tintinz dodged it tactically, while Akin1212 didn't even comment at all, I asked them about the existence of human giants (which goes against evolution ), tintinz and Akin1212 did as if they did not see it the question, I asked them about Nuclear transmutation and the lack of the ability of scientists to create organic materials from pure elements) tintinz said I shouldn't go off topic(because he focused only evolution and some other nonsense and he thinks that's enough to deny the existence of Allah) he talked about Santa Claus that everyone knows is a myth and he's comparing him to Allah the people that even made it up believe in Allah, I realised his insincerity the more and more we argued. The best Akin1212 could do was when he told me about scientific method and some questions I asked he didn't say anything tangible other talking arrogantly.

Big time red herring.

You became emotional and extremely pained. And you wanted to start online militancy, or have you forgotten? You made empty threats to curse me because your tolerance level as expected was not large enough. And me being me, I don't exchange words with ignorants talk more of ignorant e-extremists. So I had to preserve my time by not responding to any of the nonsense you had to say. Why are you now lying here?

Akin1212:


Big time red herring.

How won't you say this, if you want to claim that Allah does not exist then prove it in all aspects not only one.

Akin1212:


You became emotional and extremely pained. And you wanted to start online militancy, or have you forgotten? You made empty threats to curse me because your tolerance level as expected was not large enough. And me being me, I don't exchange words with ignorants talk more of ignorant e-extremists. So I had to preserve my time by not responding to any of the nonsense you had to say. Why are you now lying here?

Point out one lie I said here? With all your knowledge you're still arrogant, you're only saying it's non-sense but you didn't prove it, If threatening to curse(that you don't believe in) is militancy then have it your way.

najib632:
How won't you say this, if you want to claim that Allah does not exist then prove it in all aspects not only one.

"Affirmati Non Neganti Incumbit Probatio" which means “the burden of proof is upon him who affirms - not on him who denies."

You're are the one that claim your God exist, we simply don't see any proof or reason to belief your God exist, we lack belief in your God existence. The burden of proof is on you since you're positive about your claims.

Can you proof there's no invisible unicorn flying around the space which i claim it is there?

We can't suddenly proof negative, you need to present your evidences that makes you think your God exist and lets scrutinize it. Then i can tell you your God doesn't exist.

najib632:
How won't you say this, if you want to claim that Allah does not exist then prove it in all aspects not only one.

Point out one lie I said here? With all your knowledge you're still arrogant, you're only saying it's non-sense but you didn't prove it, If threatening to curse(that you don't believe in) is militancy then have it your way.

You want me to prove that Allah does not exist? Lol, and you claim you're intelligent bro. You cannot prove a negative. The burden of proof that Allah exists is on you, and which you have woefully failed to prove. You're the one claiming Allah exists, I have not claimed anything here, I have only rejected your claims.

So, in this case (where your claims are rejected), you have to practically prove that thw favorite God of yours exist. And that's how science has been able to solve problems until date. We have hypothesis, then we do experiments or practicalize to get proofs.
But here you are, you want me to have faith that Allah exist without proof.

What warranted threats to curse me? That's online militancy bro. If it were to be one on one, you would have gone violent. Which is one of the features of Muslims. So, I wasn't surprised.

Akin1212:


You want me to prove that Allah does not exist? Lol, and you claim you're intelligent bro. You cannot prove a negative. The burden of proof that Allah exists is on you, and which you have woefully failed to prove. You're the one claiming Allah exists, I have not claimed anything here, I have only rejected your claims.

So, in this case (where your claims are rejected), you have to practically prove that thw favorite God of yours exist. And that's how science has been able to solve problems until date. We have hypothesis, then we do experiments or practicalize to get proofs.
But here you are, you want me to have faith that Allah exist without proof.

What warranted threats to curse me? That's online militancy bro. If it were to be one on one, you would have gone violent. Which is one of the features of Muslims. So, I wasn't surprised.

"claim you're intelligent bro" - I never said this, you're slandering me. How can I prove it to you when you have made up your mind? I am not claiming that Allah exists, Allah exists I am only inviting to you to seek for more knowledge before jumping into conclusion. I have tried to prove it to you, but you're trying to lock me up in an uncertain place.

Why are you emphasizing on the "curse" that you don't believe in? Why would you insult Allah when you know how dare He is the muslims? How would you react when your most beloved one is insulted and made to look stupid? My reaction is only natural.

"If it were to be one on one, you would have gone violent. Which is one of the features of Muslims" -
I didn't start a rant with you online it's now in the physical world I would waste my energy? That's your business though. All the claims of violence you allege against Muslims are false. Muslims never invented terrorism if we did why are we the one's suffering it the most? Why is Isreal not being targeted? Where are the WMD's of Sadam Hussein? Why did the US sponsor the first Modern Jihad group against USSR? why did US betray them? The only time muslims get violent is when you insult the messenger of Allah, it is because of our love for him and the sacrifices he made for us.

najib632:
"claim you're intelligent bro" - I never said this, you're slandering me. How can I prove it to you when you have made up your mind? I am not claiming that Allah exists, Allah exists I am only inviting to you to seek for more knowledge before jumping into conclusion. I have tried to prove it to you, but you're trying to lock me up in an uncertain place.

How do you know I have made up my mind? I don't make up my mind on anything, well, except faith. And that's because it is illogical and unrealistic. I am open minded to facts and evidence, I am always ready to relearn and unlearn. If you have some, show them. But the physical processes or the existence of man and the world do not prove that your God exists, they are not evidence of a God. Show me real evidence, a picture or something. Stop filling the gap. Faith is not knowledge.

Inviting me? I don't want an invite, I want testable, empirical, observable and practical proof. And quoting the quran is also not a way of proving any God.

najib632:


Why are you emphasizing on the "curse" that you don't believe in? Why would you insult Allah when you know how dare He is the muslims? How would you react when your most beloved one is insulted and made to look stupid? My reaction is only natural.

It's not about the curse, I already told you that the curse won't pass Nairaland. It's about the intent, whoever the prophet was, he's not related to you. If you would curse me because of an Arab who lived many years ago or Allah who still remain unproven till date, you can also kill because of that. And that's extremism. I don't entertain it. No matter how dear Allah is to Muslims, you people can't fight for him if he really exists. When my most beloved ones who can fight for themselves are insulted, I won't make troubles or issue threats, I'll walk away. Your reaction wasn't normal, it's extremism at its best.

najib632:


"If it were to be one on one, you would have gone violent. Which is one of the features of Muslims" -
I didn't start a rant with you online it's now in the physical world I would waste my energy? That's your business though. All the claims of violence you allege against Muslims are false. Muslims never invented terrorism if we did why are we the one's suffering it the most? Why is Isreal not being targeted? Where are the WMD's of Sadam Hussein? Why did the US sponsor the first Modern Jihad group against USSR? why did US betray them? The only time muslims get violent is when you insult the messenger of Allah, it is because of our love for him and the sacrifices he made for us.

You didn't start a rant online doesn't mean you wouldn't have been violent one on one. I don't want to keep dragging this. We both know that Islam is the bedrock of terrorism, no matter how much you try to defend Islam, it doesn't change the facts. There might be peaceful Muslims out there, it still doesn't mean that Islam is free of blame of terrorism. The Muslims being killed are seen as those who have diverted from Islam, so the terrorists kill them to put the others in the right direction. The aim is to create Islamic states or Islamic republic. Isn't it? Stop wailing please.

The only time Muslims get violent, lol. Are you trying to justify Muslims violence? That's funny.

Akin1212:


Abiogenesis

But how? No one has been able to demonstrate or abiogenesis. It's an hypothesis at best.

Why can't the fate be decided before death? Because God isthe God of the dead? People get away with evil fine fine and nothing happens. God will rather allow a 2 year old girl to be raped and punish the rapist when he is dead? That's nonsense.

I really get your point here, I do. But at least theism promises the raped child divine compensation, atheism promises nothing. If you're wronged unjustly, so be it in atheism. This is not sensible to theists?

Hundreds of people of God died in Congo last year during the ebola outbreak. Thousands have died in Yemen due to hunger. Thousands are living with cancer and other diseases. Where is the divine protection?

You should sit among theists and listen to their anecdotes. Listen to them recount how Allah heard their prayers and miraculously enriched them after years in poverty, or how Jesus healed their terminal cancer after months of fasting or how Yahweh continue to protect the Jewish state of Israel despite aggression from the surrounding enemy states.

You haven't said anything reasonable.

To you I haven't said anything reasonable but I'm sure many theists reading this will agree with me, even though my concern is not necessarily to defend theism. The truth is that atheism, has it flaws as theism does. To some theists, atheism is just like a child abandoning his parents, it is not as rational or empowering as many atheists feel.