https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTbzbiKwcgQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNN9SqqJ7OI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3NIsm_mwgY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ual9MNVLPeo

Who amongst these four prominent Pastors in Nigeria is closer to the truth on tithing and who's in error on tithing?

Goshen360:
h t tps://youtu.be/GTbzbiKwcgQ
h t tps://youtu.be/n3NIsm_mwgYbishop
h t tps://youtu.be/Ual9MNVLPeo
Who amongst these three prominent Pastors in Nigeria is closer to the truth on tithing and who's in error on tithing?

In those 4 short clips, Pastor Sam Adeyemi is closer to the truth, then Bishop Okonkwo but Bishop Oyedepo & Pastor Adeboye are woefully far from the truth

MuttleyLaff:
In those 4 short clips, Pastor Sam Adeyemi is closer to the truth, then Bishop Okonkwo but Pastor Oyedepo & Adeboye are woefully far from the truth

But why is it soooo super hard for followers of Adeboye and Oyedepo to see clearly that their papas are in deep errors? I actually added the fourth clip of Oyedepo from your response to Annas on the other thread. Good job my brother!

Goshen360:
But why is it soooo super hard for followers of Adeboye and Oyedepo to see clearly that their papas are in deep errors? I actually added the fourth clip of Oyedepo from your response to Annas on the other thread. Good job my brother!

It is because of indoctrination, ignorance, biblical illiteracy and sheeple syndrome
Anne is not just my sister, she is my homie too, and we have a mutual understanding and respect for each other
I've replied your email

MuttleyLaff:
It is because of indoctrination, ignorance, biblical illiteracy and sheeple syndrome
Anne is not just my sister, she is my homie too, and we have a mutual understanding and respect for each other
I've replied your email

I agree 100%

Pst Sam Adeyemi and Pst Okonkwo said it all, they said the truth without fear or favor. Love them for that but our daddies really amazes me. Honestly, I have never attend redeem since that day I saw that clip when it was released.

Indeed there are pastors that will speak the truth while others blindly and erroneously go with the bandwagon!
Pastor sam had mentors in some senior pastors presently,but that did not stop him from saying the undiluted truth from the bible!
I wish others can learn from this!
Pastor Adeyemi you have my utmost respect from now on!
How can I get the full video of that preaching by pastor sam adeyemi?

The last 3 are are biblically correct, and do not contradict each other. Listen well. As for the first one, smh. That is just flat out wrong.

birdman:
The last 3 are are biblically correct, and do not contradict each other. Listen well. As for the first one, smh. That is just flat out wrong.

Please explain how Oyedepo tithe teaching is correct biblically correct with what Okonkwo and Adeyemi teaching....I don't see anything correct in what Oyedepo and Adeboye teaching....as a matter of fact if I'm to deal with lots of conjole that Oyedepo was saying line by line without any biblical support, this will ripe his teaching apart but most times, it doesn't change the mind of his followers.

Non of them but daddy freeze.

They are all contradicting themselves. Only daddy freeze is right

Goshen360:


Please explain how Oyedepo tithe teaching is correct biblically correct with what Okonkwo and Adeyemi teaching....I don't see anything correct in what Oyedepo and Adeboye teaching....as a matter of fact if I'm to deal with lots of conjole that Oyedepo was saying line by line without any biblical support, this will ripe his teaching apart but most times, it doesn't change the mind of his followers.

What did you think was incorrect? I can shed light on how I interpreted it

For example, grace does not imply no hard work. As Paul said in 1 Cor 15:10, he worked the hardest. yet it wasnt him, but grace.

To put it another way grace provides and faith receives what grace provided. Faith that does not implore you to works is dead according to James. This makes sense when you think about it. If you really believed a chair could hold your weight, you would sit on it.

So lets apply this grace to sowing and reaping. Grace provides access to the blessing of God. in that when you sow, you reap bountifully, even in a famine like Isaac.

Again, what if Peter had not obeyed the word of the Lord to throw his net for a catch after toiling all night? Grace would have provided the fish, but Peter would have gotten nothing! Why? Because of no faith, which would have provided corresponding works, in this case obedience.

Likewise, we are under grace, but if you do not sow, dont expect to reap.Again, the tithe is a covenant even older than the law, older than Abraham, which we enter by grace. But without faith, it is of no effect.

birdman:


What did you think was incorrect? I can shed light on how I interpreted it

For example, grace does not imply no hard work. As Paul said in 1 Cor 15:10, he worked the hardest. yet it wasnt him, but grace.

To put it another way grace provides and faith receives what grace provided. Faith that does not implore you to works is dead according to James. This makes sense when you think about it. If you really believed a chair could hold your weight, you would sit on it.

So lets apply this grace to sowing and reaping. Grace provides access to the blessing of God. in that when you sow, you reap bountifully, even in a famine like Isaac.

Again, what if Peter had not obeyed the word of the Lord to throw his net for a catch after toiling all night? Grace would have provided the fish, but Peter would have gotten nothing! Why? Because of no faith, which would have provided corresponding works, in this case obedience.

Likewise, we are under grace, but if you do not sow, dont expect to reap.Again, the tithe is a covenant even older than the law, older than Abraham, which we enter by grace. But without faith, it is of no effect.

You are confusing yourself as well as confusing the readers. You jumping from sowing to reaping mixing it with Grace and faith. In other words, you application of truth is wrong. You using Panadol on another's headache.

Now, everything you said are okay and correct until you applied it to Tithe AS SOWING AND REAPING. Tithe IS NOT SPECIFICALLY TAUGHT AS A WAY OF SOWING AND REAPING and that's what you're doing by bringing Tithe into sowing and reaping.

Also, where does scripture says tithe IS A COVENANT we entered by grace? Or rather, explain yourself on the last paragraph.

Goshen360:

Now, everything you said are okay and correct until you applied it to Tithe AS SOWING AND REAPING. Tithe IS NOT SPECIFICALLY TAUGHT AS A WAY OF SOWING AND REAPING and that's what you're doing by bringing Tithe into sowing and reaping.

Also, where does scripture says tithe IS A COVENANT we entered by grace? Or rather, explain yourself on the last paragraph.

Try this:
Dont go to work for the next week, Let grace pay your bills.
Dont study for your next exam. Let grace help you pass.
Dont plant any crop. Let grace provide a harvest.

Is it not obvious that to reap a good grade, you must sow time in study? Did the food you ate today appeared without sowing and reaping?

The intent of the tithe is revealed in Genesis 14, by Melchizedek after Abram defeated 5 kings. Note, he meets Abram AFTER the battle and Abram gives a tenth of the spoils.

After this pattern, when you, or the Isrealites win because of the power of God, either on your job (salary), or your harvest(sheep), you bring a tenth to acknowledge the power that blessed you. For Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Abel did it, as did Abram before the law. The new covenant, being better than that of the law does not remove acts of praise and thankfulness. If anything, we are to walk in it much more!

You can go to heaven without tithe because the righteousness needed is settled in Jesus. YES! But as Paul said, in a great house, there are many kinds of vessels. For me, I do not give because of threats. I give because the covenant I am under is far better! How can those under the law outgive those under grace!

I don't even what to quote you so I will just respond.

First of all, you're confusing yourself and or with some readers. The first part you explained has to to with dignity in labour or faith and work that goes hand in hand but you are trying to equate it to what grace provided but faith takes or help u get BY YOU TITHING with you call act of faith.

In the later part you concluded by downplaying on the word tithing to GIVING....these are two different things in my word understanding... Tithe is a fixed PERCENTAGE but giving that is not. However every giving a man does is a CERTAIN percentage of his income. The new testament doesn't allow not teach a FIXED PERCENTAGE in our giving act but it says we should give....this time it could be ten percent and another time it could be three percent and another time it could be 15 percent...etc

Lastly, you make it look like because we are under a better covenant SO THEREFORE WE ARE TO GIVE MORE OR BETTER NOT TO MENTION GIVING LESS....NOOOOOO, follow the content and context WHY IT WAS CALLED A BETTER COVENANT....because of what Christ did NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT WE DID OR WHAT WE CAN DO and that's not to say we should not give.

Goshen360:


But why is it soooo super hard for followers of Adeboye and Oyedepo to see clearly that their papas are in deep errors? I actually added the fourth clip of Oyedepo from your response to Annas on the other thread. Good job my brother!

Trust Africans with blind love.

Tithing is giving. It is giving 10%. Why are you even arguing this.

Dignity in labour is works, is it not?

In the new covenant, even lusting after a woman in your heart is already adultery according to Jesus. Is that not going further? Yes it is.

The reason you didnt quote me is because I refuted your stance with solid scriptures. And you didnt want me coming back again. But here I am.

Before you go around deciding what man of God is right and which isnt, take some humility lessons yourself. Physician, take your own medicine.

You see, what you haven't realized is that people who spend their time criticizing others usual have their own flaws hidden in plain sight. Tend to the log in your eye brother.

Knowledge puffs up, Love builds up. Major on the latter!

birdman:
Tithing is giving. It is giving 10%. Why are you even arguing this.

Dignity in labour is works, is it not?

In the new covenant, even lusting after a woman in your heart is already adultery according to Jesus. Is that not going further? Yes it is.

The reason you didnt quote me is because I refuted your stance with solid scriptures. And you didnt want me coming back again. But here I am.

Before you go around deciding what man of God is right and which isnt, take some humility lessons yourself. Physician, take your own medicine.

You see, what you haven't realized is that people who spend their time criticizing others usual have their own flaws hidden in plain sight. Tend to the log in your eye brother.

Knowledge puffs up, Love builds up. Major on the latter!

First of all let me tell you this, I am I grown man and fear (negative) no one. If I said I don't even want to quote you is because sometimes I have lots of time to respond in details and in that case I'll quote you and respond well and another time when I read you or someone if it doesn't make perfect sense I just write short NOT BECAUSE YOU GAVE REBUTTAL SO GOOD.

Again, what you doing is YOU LACING THE TRUTH WITH A BIT OF LIE AND HERESY HERE AND THERE and your lies and heresy that's what I point out that's why I don't quote everything you say on the other hand. Otherwise I'll quote you paragraph by paragraph and respond. Hence, I keep saying you confusing yourself and also some readers.

Now we agree THAT TITHING IS A WAY OR FORM OF GIVING....(the truth aspect we agree on one hand) BUT nowhere in the NEW TESTAMENT does it specify ANY PERCENTAGE attached your our giving..... doing such in d New testament amount to legalistic giving or legalism......(this is where u LACING lies with truth that I don't agree because no such in the new testament)

Give whatever you want to give in the new testament and stop calling it tithe because again, anything you give is always a certain percentage of your income.

Also, you people want to go back and pick just Abram tithe in the old testament like a cafeteria Christians that pick and choose what you like, slavery and other rituals too existed before the law and WAS STILL CARRIED INTO THE LAW....DO CHRISTIANS DO ALL OF THAT TODAY TOO? The Bible is clear how Abraham is the father of THEM THAT ARE GENTILES AND OF THE FAITH.

Lastly, as per me criticizing men of God and have issues in my life....the same way I'm not a perfect man n have never claimed to be, your pastors too are not perfect but they want to show themselves as holier than the rest and when they err, we correct and same goes to me when I err, someone kick my behind and I take full responsibility for my actions.

birdman:


Try this:
Dont go to work for the next week, Let grace pay your bills.
Dont study for your next exam. Let grace help you pass.
Dont plant any crop. Let grace provide a harvest.

Is it not obvious that to reap a good grade, you must sow time in study? Did the food you ate today appeared without sowing and reaping?

The intent of the tithe is revealed in Genesis 14, by Melchizedek after Abram defeated 5 kings. Note, he meets Abram AFTER the battle and Abram gives a tenth of the spoils.

After this pattern, when you, or the Isrealites win because of the power of God, either on your job (salary), or your harvest(sheep), you bring a tenth to acknowledge the power that blessed you. For Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Abel did it, as did Abram before the law. The new covenant, being better than that of the law does not remove acts of praise and thankfulness. If anything, we are to walk in it much more!

You can go to heaven without tithe because the righteousness needed is settled in Jesus. YES! But as Paul said, in a great house, there are many kinds of vessels. For me, I do not give because of threats. I give because the covenant I am under is far better! How can those under the law outgive those under grace!

You don't even know what tithe means.

Tithe is a tenth of an increase , not of your original produce or earnings.

If you make 2000 naira this month and 2,000 naira next month, you are not mandated to tithe because there was no increase on which to tithe a tenth.

BluntBoy:


You don't even know what tithe means.

Tithe is a tenth of an increase , not of your original produce or earnings.

If you make 2000 naira this month and 2,000 naira next month, you are not mandated to tithe because there was no increase on which to tithe a tenth.

If you used 10,000 to do business, and you make 12000, your increase is 2k. If next month you use another 10,000 and make 2,500, your increase for that month is 2500.

If you put in 10,000 in month 1 only, and make 2000 each month after, your increase in 2000 each month.

If you dont want to give, dont. Nobody is forcing you. But dont deceive yourself. If the money is that important to you that you cant let go, you have mammon issues. Deal with it

Goshen360:


First of all let me tell you this, I am I grown man and fear (negative) no one. If I said I don't even want to quote you is because sometimes I have lots of time to respond in details and in that case I'll quote you and respond well and another time when I read you or someone if it doesn't make perfect sense I just write short NOT BECAUSE YOU GAVE REBUTTAL SO GOOD.

Again, what you doing is YOU LACING THE TRUTH WITH A BIT OF LIE AND HERESY HERE AND THERE and your lies and heresy that's what I point out that's why I don't quote everything you say on the other hand. Otherwise I'll quote you paragraph by paragraph and respond. Hence, I keep saying you confusing yourself and also some readers.

Now we agree THAT TITHING IS A WAY OR FORM OF GIVING....(the truth aspect we agree on one hand) BUT nowhere in the NEW TESTAMENT does it specify ANY PERCENTAGE attached your our giving..... doing such in d New testament amount to legalistic giving or legalism......(this is where u LACING lies with truth that I don't agree because no such in the new testament)

Give whatever you want to give in the new testament and stop calling it tithe because again, anything you give is always a certain percentage of your income.

Also, you people want to go back and pick just Abram tithe in the old testament like a cafeteria Christians that pick and choose what you like, slavery and other rituals too existed before the law and WAS STILL CARRIED INTO THE LAW....DO CHRISTIANS DO ALL OF THAT TODAY TOO? The Bible is clear how Abraham is the father of THEM THAT ARE GENTILES AND OF THE FAITH.

Lastly, as per me criticizing men of God and have issues in my life....the same way I'm not a perfect man n have never claimed to be, your pastors too are not perfect but they want to show themselves as holier than the rest and when they err, we correct and same goes to me when I err, someone kick my behind and I take full responsibility for my actions.

Because Abram was before the law. But lets use your favorite apostle

Check out Paul's second letter to the Corinthians. He expected them to give wholeheartedly to the ministry. And he expected it to be much! He said other churches were giving generously, and they ought to partake themselves. Paul said they should keep the offerings for him until he arrived. And he said he was expecting a good offering! That is your apostle of grace o.

Sacrificial giving ought not be a problem for those under grace. Like I wrote to bluntboy, if you consistently feel the need to fudge issues so you can give less, mammon has a foothold!

birdman:


If you used 10,000 to do business, and you make 12000, your increase is 2k. If next month you use another 10,000 and make 2,500, your increase for that month is 2500.

If you put in 10,000 in month 1 only, and make 2000 each month after, your increase in 2000 each month.

If you dont want to give, dont. Nobody is forcing you. But dont deceive yourself. If the money is that important to you that you cant let go, you have mammon issues. Deal with it

You are merely repeating me rather than refuting me.

Anyway, do you know why tithe was land based?

BluntBoy:


You are merely repeating me rather than refuting me.

Anyway, do you know why tithe was land based?

i see. but you said i didnt know what tithe was. ok.

tithe was not always land based. in some cases, it was war goods.

birdman:


Because Abram was before the law. But lets use your favorite apostle



Check out Paul's second letter to the Corinthians. He expected them to give wholeheartedly to the ministry. And he expected it to be much! He said other churches were giving generously, and they ought to partake themselves. Paul said they should keep the offerings for him until he arrived. And he said he was expecting a good offering! That is your apostle of grace o.



Sacrificial giving ought not be a problem for those under grace. Like I wrote to bluntboy, if you consistently feel the need to fudge issues so you can give less, mammon has a foothold!

Let me respond paragraph by paragraph from the above:

Abraham was before the law doesn't justify tithing for CHRISTIANS. Abraham tithed from spoils of war and returned the rest to rightful owners. Tithing was later included in the law and the law being fulfilled and abolished. Spoils of war was never permitted in the law. There are many things that existed before the law and was still carried into the law such as burnt offering, slavery, animal sacrifices etc which of them do you still do or which does Oyedepo still teach. That's what cafeteria Christians do, they pick and choose what to do or practice - stay one place in the new covenant and stop jump to old testament when it concerns money but offer your son for sacrifice you will say no, we're under grace. Well practice grace based giving them!

I'm a stand still student of Paul's exposition. If you want to talk about what Paul the Apostle taught, then HE NEVER MENTIONED TITHE NOR ASCRIBED A FIXED 10% to his teachings when he taught Christian giving. Christian giving should be voluntary and willing, cheerful and what a man decides in his heart and that could be any percentage not a fixed ten percent. IF YOU HAVE ONE VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WHERE PAUL OR ANY APOSTLE TAUGHT TITHING, A FIXED TEN PERCENTAGE, THEN SHOW IT TO US or back up on your own heresy you peddling with Oyedepo.

I'm all in for giving and a Christian studying the scripture ought not to be taught giving. Giving should be part of a Christian lifestyle. I support young churches just growing, I give to friends and family members, I give to folks outside family, etc. Every giving is a foregone alternative to something and that's what you called sacrificial giving. But let giving be done as taught IN THE NEW TESTAMENT NOT AS TAUGHT UNDER ANOTHER DISPENSATION.

birdman:


i see. but you said i didnt know what tithe was. ok.

tithe was not always land based. in some cases, it was war goods.

And the rest of war goods returned to the owners....the war Lord not keeping anything for himself..... practice that kind of war goods tithing and let's see how u survive with the rest of your upkeep to household in few months.

birdman:


i see. but you said i didnt know what tithe was. ok.

tithe was not always land based. in some cases, it was war goods.

You didn't know what tithe was. If you did, you wouldn't have mentioned salaries as a reference point. We all know that salaries mostly always remained fixed over a period of time and yet people are compelled to tithe out of their regular salaries.

You said tithe was not always land based and you are saying this so confidently because of Abraham who tithed out of the spoils of war.

You people need to make up your minds. Do you tithe like Abraham or as people under the law? You can't say both because tithing like Abraham is totally different from tithing under the law.

Abraham tithed out of war booties and not out of an increase in his produce and/or livestock. So, you should know I wasn't talking about Abraham when I said tithe was land based.

So, please, answer my question. Do you know why tithe was land based?

BluntBoy:


You didn't know what tithe was. If you did, you wouldn't have mentioned salaries as a reference point. We all know that salaries mostly always remained fixed over a period of time and yet people are compelled to tithe out of their regular salaries.

You said tithe was not always land based and you are saying this so confidently because of Abraham who tithed out of the spoils of war.

You people need to make up your minds. Do you tithe like Abraham or as people under the law? You can't say both because tithing like Abraham is totally different from tithing under the law.

Abraham tithed out of war booties and not out of an increase in his produce and/or livestock. So, you should know I wasn't talking about Abraham when I said tithe was land based.

So, please, answer my question. Do you know why tithe was land based?

sigh. ok. you think salaries are not titheable. instead of going back and forth, tell us why. Im not interested in back and forths and gotchas. Tithe is not land based. If you believe otherwise state your case. I stated mine.

Goshen360:


And the rest of war goods returned to the owners....the war Lord not keeping anything for himself..... practice that kind of war goods tithing and let's see how u survive with the rest of your upkeep to household in few months.

Wrong. Abram shared the 90% rest of the spoils with his allies. And he gave the king of Sodom his people back.

BluntBoy:


You don't even know what tithe means.

Tithe is a tenth of an increase , not of your original produce or earnings.

If you make 2000 naira this month and 2,000 naira next month, you are not mandated to tithe because there was no increase on which to tithe a tenth.

Lol. so it must be 3000 the next month do you can tithe off the 1000 increase. Its ok. I wont bag on you anymore. I pray we all get grow in understanding.

birdman:


Lol. so it must be 3000 the next month do you can tithe off the 1000 increase. Its ok. I wont bag on you anymore. I pray we all get grow in understanding.

Tithe is a tenth of an increase. For as long as your salary is fixed, there is no increase to tithe on. That is the law.

birdman:


sigh. ok. you think salaries are not titheable. instead of going back and forth, tell us why. Im not interested in back and forths and gotchas. Tithe is not land based. If you believe otherwise state your case. I stated mine.

Tithe is land based and it is tied to the Promised Land. That is why an increase in yields on the Promised Land is tithed. Only crops and livestock. There was money in those days because there was an option of redeeming tithes, but you couldn't give tithes in money. And to emphasize the essence of tithe being land based, redeeming tithes came with a price.

Tithes was land based and it was tied to the Promised Land which defined God's covenant with Israel.

There is no Jew on this earth who would tithe outside the Promised Land. But you, Christians, who have decided to let others do your Bible readings for you, are at the mercy of wolves in sheep's clothing who pervert the scriptures for pecuniary gains.

BluntBoy:


Tithe is land based and it is tied to the Promised Land. That is why an increase in yields on the Promised Land is tithed. Only crops and livestock. There was money in those days because there was an option of redeeming tithes, but you couldn't give tithes in money. And to emphasize the essence of tithe being land based, redeeming tithes came with a price.

Tithes was land based and it was tied to the Promised Land which defined God's covenant with Israel.

There is no Jew on this earth who would tithe outside the Promised Land. But you, Christians, who have decided to let others do your Bible readings for you, are at the mercy of wolves in sheep's clothing who pervert the scriptures for pecuniary gains.

Thanks for stating your position succinctly. You make an interesting point on tithes not being in money primarily. I will check that out.

On the promised land, remember that Israel is a type. Every believer is in the promised land, by virtue of the great and precious promises which give divine life...see 2 Peter 1. Based on this and Abrams example, the overriding principle is to tithe what you acknowledge divine power has giving you materially. The tithe is specifically tied to material things. Wether it be land produce or its equivalent, which is money.

On Jews and tithing, many would be surprised at how they view money and wealth. While they are not a perfect example, hints can be useful.

birdman:


Wrong. Abram shared the 90% rest of the spoils with his allies. And he gave the king of Sodom his people back.

Smh!

Quote the whole of Genesis 14 here and let everyone read it