MuttleyLaff:
The more you read, the more you get to know all these

MuttleyLaff:
How clever of you to notice the story!. There just is no pleasing some people sha.

OK, CAPSLOCKED said: "... YOU NEED FAITH TO BE ABLE TO ENCOUNTER AND FEEL HIM IN YOUR HEART..." but then there's no point of having faith, if or when someone like you LordReed, insists on asking for evidence.

I admit, it's hard to trust and have faith, when all you have from the past is evidence why you shouldn't believe and to have faith, but in fairness LordReed, you can't be going about asking believers for evidence or demonstration of anything, because their belief is not based on evidence, it is based on a deep seated mandate to believe and after all, how you see God, is evidence of what you believe anyway. There's also the fact that, there are two kinds of people, those who believe and those who don't, but then I think "many drips carve a rock", not sudden change.

LordReed, there no absolute evidence or demonstration to point to, except for clues abounding, that God is a Spirit and human beings are created in God's image and according to His likeness

Now, for the one asking "read what?". Well there are two sides to every coin. There is no such thing as a one-sided piece of paper, so I travel a lot and visit many good, bad and ugly books, but live in the Bible.

Slow applause. I honestly was expecting to see a nonstampcollector YouTube video there. What a killjoy

HappyPagan:

Your God has made a lot of awful decisions, and his methods of correcting those mistakes are not methods I'd ask any divine being to emulate. (noah's ark, son's death, moses 40 years trip)

Dantedasz:


How dare you compare the omniscient, omnipotent God to a pair of dusty shoes?
Do you not know our God is a mystery and his ways are not your ways?
How dare you??
You better read your Bible to understand God better and go down on your knees and beg for forgiveness lest you get cast into the lake of fire that burns forever and ever.....
Bewarned.....

Dantedasz:
Here's a video that shows the absurdity of your God.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrqLV4yeiw

JujuSugar:
??


*sigh*

MuttleyLaff:


Now, for the one asking "read what?". Well there are two sides to every coin. There is no such thing as a one-sided piece of paper, so I travel a lot and visit many good, bad and ugly books, but live in the Bible.

LordReed:


LOL! Gonna have to get used to the sarcasm.

JujuSugar:
1/ I'll advise you to shelve the bible sometimes and pick up books that aren't a disservice to reality.

JujuSugar:
2/ Next time you want to address my comment, quote me directly. Your inclusion of my comment in your reply to Lord Reed in that manner is actually insulting. But I'm just gonna let that slide...

HappyPagan:


"spirit and truth" is vague and ambiguous, at least enough to let in crooks, vampires and old men with Messiah complex.

MuttleyLaff:
I live in the bible

MuttleyLaff:

I dont have to quote you directly if I dont want to., and you can take it as you like it, like as if I really at all care you feel insulted at not having your ID being directly mentioned when I commented, and like as if, I spoke ill of you in my reply.

MuttleyLaff:
This is the last time I'll ever again mention or quote the moniker anyway.

JujuSugar:
Pick up a shoe.....
Can you observe it with any OR all of your 5 senses? If you can, you are able to have as much certainty of this fact as anything else in the world. You'll never see two people debating the existence of shoes. That would be an exercise in stupidity.....
In contrast, the existence of a god is much less certain.

JujuSugar:
Many reasonable and intelligent people become atheists and arguments for God's existence always have reasonable counter arguments.

JujuSugar:
"Experiences" of God can be hard to distinguish from mere psychological or sociological effects.....

JujuSugar:
So the state of humanity is thus: we find ourselves in a world with an epistemological framework such that we are far more likely to know that a pencil exists than that God exists!

JujuSugar:
Having established all this, here is my question....
Now, if God really does exist and wants a relationship with us -- and if this relationship is the single most important thing to "get right" --

JujuSugar:
then why would God not give us more epistemic access to his own existence … than that of a shoe??. Doesn't this seem incompatible with the existence of a god who wants to have a relationship with us?

budaatum:

You can't claim we don't spend much time and effort on the subject

budaatum:

This is true. The evidence as seen on here confirms that "Many reasonable and intelligent people become atheists and arguments for God's existence always have reasonable counter arguments." And in fact, apart from buda, I don't know that any atheist has gone the other way. But that might be because buda is not "reasonable and intelligent" anymore.

Many reasonable and intelligent people become atheists

budaatum:

I put it to you that God is exactly what you are finding hard to "distinguish from mere psychological or sociological effects".

budaatum:

Epistemological means "the knowledge of what we know and how we know it" , which are:

INTUITIVE KNOWLEDGE takes forms such as belief, faith, intuition, etc. It is based on feelings rather than hard, cold "facts."

AUTHORITATIVE KNOWLEDGE is based on information received from people, books, a supreme being, etc. Its strength depends on the strength of these sources.

LOGICAL KNOWLEDGE is arrived at by reasoning from "point A" (which is generally accepted) to "point B" (the new knowledge).

EMPIRICAL KNOWLEDGE is based on demonstrable, objective facts (which are determined through observation and/or experimentation).

So, I ask, while our epistemological framework (the, what we know), may allow us to be "far more likely to know that a pencil exists", are you suggesting our epistemological framework is so vast that we know whether "God exists"?

budaatum:

Is it not therefore truer to claim that, "we find ourselves in a world and have developed an epistemological framework by which we understand it, but our epistemological framework of the world is as incomplete as that of those who wrote God created the heavens and the earth, in the entire scheme of things"?

budaatum:

You have not established anything yet, juju! What benefit is it to God whether you relate with God or not? Why would an Almighty God want a relationship with you? On what basis do you rest you "relationship is the single most important thing to "get right"?

budaatum:

I don't agree that "God wants to have a relationship with anybody", juju. Explain to me why you think God wants to have a relationship with you!

budaatum:

In your honour juju. As your's is the first to evoke a "there is God" post from buda.

JujuSugar:

And yours is the first to get me preaching. SMH

JujuSugar:

I never claimed that sir. This is an excerpt from my OP....
Can you observe it with any OR all of your 5 senses? If you can, you are able to have as much certainty of this fact as anything else in the world. You'll never see two people debating the existence of shoes.
The point I'm trying to make is that a god who interacts with our reality does not need any argument for his existence

JujuSugar:
Read between the lines sir

JujuSugar:
I can understand that certain people may feel like I took a jab at religious people there. I really didn't....
However, I want you to consider something.....
Christians believe that Atheists are fools for not believing in YHWH (It says so in the bible)
Some christians even go as far as to label atheism, "a mental illness"
They cannot understand how someone cannot believe in a deity

JujuSugar:
So let me paraphrase that statement into a question for you, sir.....
What about those brilliant scientists and intelligent philosophers who don't subscribe to any religion? Why have they abandoned the faith?
Answer it and look if you can see where I am.....

JujuSugar:

Potato, Po-tah-to

JujuSugar:

That's not what I said. At all.

JujuSugar:
EXACTLY, SIR!
And this is where things get interesting....
a/ If we don't have any perfect method of observing the "spiritual", how are people so certain that this things exist?
b/ Why would a loving God want to hide himself from people?

JujuSugar:

It doesn't matter what he benefits from it or what he doesn't. The fact is (according to the bible), that's what he wants...

Revelation 21:3-4

And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

Clearly, God wants a relationship with man

JujuSugar:

“If a man has 100 sheep and one of them strays, will he not leave the 99 on the mountains and set out on a search for the one that is straying?”
The lesson?....
“Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.”—Matthew 18:12-14.

JujuSugar:
And yours is the first to get me preaching. SMH

Hermes019:

Read what exactly , the bible ?

HappyPagan:
Religion has its benefits...

HappyPagan:
but it will be ridiculous to claim the world we live in today is a mess because we depend on reason and logic. That's illogical.

HappyPagan:
Glorified robots, or human angels. Satan wasn't a glorified robot, see where that got God.

HappyPagan:
God, at least whatever the Christian defines him as, is just a buhari in the sky, always giving excuses, sees no reason to be held accountable or responsible.. every good thing is of him, every bad thing is carnal(human)... what a disgusting, repressive philosophy to follow..

HappyPagan:
lol, buhari again
Considering I'm neither omnipotent, omniscient, or any of the multitude of omni-attributes your Buhari claims to possess, I don't think I'm doing too bad.

Your God has made a lot of awful decisions, and his methods of correcting those mistakes are not methods I'd ask any divine being to emulate. (noah's ark, son's death, moses 40 years trip)

Hermes019:
Read what exactly, the bible?

budaatum:

I have never seen shoes arguing with anybody about their existence, juju, where do youbget your shoes? I've never seen gods arguing about their existence either mind. So, perhaps gods are like shoes after all, both don't give a damn if you wore them, or not.

budaatum:

No! You are going to have to preach to buda because buda is not reasonable and intelligent! Sorry.

budaatum:

Anyone who does not understand that a super powerful force that is beyond the understanding of many who have limited capabilities to comprehend it but then claim that super powerful force does not exist, are indeed, "fools" and are "mentally ill". But even believers share these ailments in thinking their tiny ability to comprehend is sufficient for them to understand the super powerful force that is beyond the understanding of those who have limited capabilities to comprehend. It is for this very reason that believers exits, see. They believe because they do not know. If they knew, they would not believe. Yet some think they know but do not know. A toss of us fools.

budaatum:

There is no reason nor requirement that a brilliant and intelligent (and by this I assume, wise), person would subscribe to any religion. A brilliant and intelligent persons would have used their senses (there are more that five, by the way), to build their epistemological framework, and if they did their job right, they would know and not believe, since, religion would be a patch on their framework. They would have faith. Faith that tomorrow will surely come is sufficient.

budaatum:

Yes. Same thing, different names.

budaatum:

These were your exact words:

"So the state of humanity is thus: we find ourselves in a world with an epistemological framework such that we are far more likely to know that a pencil exists than that God exists!

Essentially, 'we know so much about pencils but nothing about God'.

budaatum:

First, or, a/ Why does our "method of observing the "spiritual" have to be perfect? Did our eyes have to be perfect to see the planets in the sky? Does God not love us just the way we are?

budaatum:

And second, for what reason do you claim, a/ That God is loving, and b/ that "God wants to hide himself from people"? Are we talking of the same God that "so loved the world" and the one screaming "love me" in Proverbs and found buda? If that's hiding, I thank you Lord for being a crappy hider!

budaatum:

Typical God! The astute everything. God creates all these things, including things that live and die, and then, for the love of that which the Lord God created, God insists, on telling you how to go about it so you live longer and with less pain!

My Lord God, you are Mighty for wanting a relationship with puny insignificant buda!


See, sheepie! Not hiding!

I'm beginning to think you want God to be a kidnapper, juju, so God would capture you. Just so you know, from what I've learnt, don't you dare put it past God.


Yep, double lol. Captured!

JujuSugar:

I can't make strong arguments cause I have no idea what your worldview is. So do me good and let me know.
I'm not exactly a fan of sarcasm & mental gymnastics. It stresses me out

MuttleyLaff:
Hold on to your knickers. Patience is a virtue, you didnt have re-post same comment twice in order to get me to respond now

Not just the bible only. It was in Mark Twain's book "Innocents Abroad" that he wrote: "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." and with that in mind, is why I earlier said that " "I travel a lot and visit many good, bad and ugly books, but live in the Bible.""

I learned all of I share from and by reading the bible along with a few other the good, bad and ugly books. Reading is important to me. A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge, so the saying goes. On top, I love and enjoy reading the Bible. It gladdens my heart and ít's an immerse source of knowledge to me.

Living in the bible helps me a lot and allows me to think outside the box, as the law of liberty gives me the opportunity to do just that.

JujuSugar:

Apparently, YHWH gives a damn as I've illustrated already. If he didn't, what is the point of salvation?

JujuSugar:

I can't make strong arguments cause I have no idea what your worldview is. So do me good and let me know.
I'm not exactly a fan of sarcasm & mental gymnastics. It stresses me out

LordReed:


LoL! Lemme help you, budaatum is not a christian (but apparently Jesus has converted her). LMFAO!

budaatum:

I don't see how you have in any way illustrated that YHWH wants to have a relationship with you!

budaatum:

Has YHWH ever approached you and told you anything of the sort? Who exactly is it that wants to have a relationship, Juju with YHWH, or YHWH with Sugar? Which you hear begging please?

Point of salvation of YHWH, because YHWH will die if it does not relate with Juju? Or point of salvation of Juju?

LordReed:


LoL! Lemme help you, budaatum is not a christian

LordReed:

(but apparently Jesus has converted her). LMFAO!

JujuSugar:

He told me


I applaud the sarcasm there. I thought you said you dont do sarcasm



Ok.


Is budaatum a she?


You know what? Don't answer......I'm actually done lol

Hermes019:
You know this is not the issue, we regard the bible like every other book, but u Christians say it is divinely inspired, if u are of this position how did u attain it

LordReed:


I know you said not to answer but I will for my own entertainment. Budaatum refuses to acknowledge personal sex but I like to think its a she, a sexy, long legged, well endowed, lithe female. LMFAO!

LordReed:


I know you said not to answer but I will for my own entertainment. Budaatum refuses to acknowledge personal sex but I like to think its a she, a sexy, long legged, well endowed, lithe female. LMFAO!

LordReed:


I know you said not to answer but I will for my own entertainment. Budaatum refuses to acknowledge personal sex but I like to think its a she, a sexy, long legged, well endowed, lithe female. LMFAO!

HappyPagan:

sounds like an anti-anas.

JujuSugar:

He told me

JujuSugar:

I applaud the sarcasm there. I thought you said you dont do sarcasm