When you ask some christians why Yahweh wouldn't prove himself, you hear "god won't stoop so low to prove himself to man?" Seriously?

How does god proving himself to man means that he is stooping low? God wants you to be saved and he cared enough about man to go through torture and tears on the cross, so how is proving himself equivalent to stoop so low? Nevermind that he proved himself to Gideon.

Please, who can answer this? How is that logic valid?

God is sovereign. This means He is not subject to any authority but every authority is subject to Him. He does whatever He likes to in line with his plan and big picture.

So if He likes He will prove Himself at some occasions and would not in other occasions. Sometimed we have overbloated value of ourselves as created human beings in relation to the creator. Even in the world, monarchs do whatever they like and are not under any obligation to prove themselves unless if it pleases them to do so. How much more the God creator.

I don't think so...But you may never have more prove about God than you have now... tks

ABCthings:
I don't think so...But you may never have more prove about God than you have now ... tks

What proof of god do I have now?

Martinez39:
What proof of god do I have now?

History and Nature

ABCthings:
History and Nature

History hasn't taught us anything Yahweh and Jesus being legitimate. Nature does not in any way implies that your god is legitimate. If there is any way nature proves god, tell me.

Martinez39:
History hasn't taught us anything Yahweh and Jesus being legitimate. Nature does not in any way implies that your god is legitimate. If there is any way nature proves god, tell me.

Are you talking about the Chirstian God or God in general?

ABCthings:
Are you talking about the Chirstian God or God in general?

the christian god. Didn't you read the op? Besides, just in case, don't play that "christianity is not a religion" crap or "Jesus is not of any religion" nonsense. You know the deity I am referring to when I mention Yahweh and Jesus.

Martinez39:
When you ask some christians why Yahweh wouldn't prove himself, you hear "god won't stoop so low to prove himself to man?" Seriously?

How does god proving himself to man means that he is stooping low? God wants you to be saved and he cared enough about man to go through torture and tears on the cross, so how is proving himself equivalent to stoop so low? Nevermind that he proved himself to Gideon.

Please, who can answer this? How is that logic valid?

The people who claim proof know who God is; just putting up a fake act.

3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2 Timothy

Martinez39:
the christian god. Didn't you read the op? Besides, just in case, don't play that "christianity is not a religion" crap or "Jesus is not of any religion" nonsense. You know the deity I am referring to when I mention Yahweh and Jesus.

I just wanted to be sure op isn't an Atheist.

Martinez39:
When you ask some christians why Yahweh wouldn't prove himself, you hear "god won't stoop so low to prove himself to man?" Seriously?

How does god proving himself to man means that he is stooping low? God wants you to be saved and he cared enough about man to go through torture and tears on the cross, so how is proving himself equivalent to stoop so low? Nevermind that he proved himself to Gideon.

Please, who can answer this? How is that logic valid?

Lol. If I may ask who are "these christians?" @bolded
Anyway, this can only be explained by turning logic on its head, and you can trust "these christians" to do that.

Martinez39:
When you ask some christians why Yahweh wouldn't prove himself, you hear "god won't stoop so low to prove himself to man?" Seriously?

How does god proving himself to man means that he is stooping low? God wants you to be saved and he cared enough about man to go through torture and tears on the cross, so how is proving himself equivalent to stoop so low? Nevermind that he proved himself to Gideon.

Please, who can answer this? How is that logic valid?

festacman:
God is sovereign. This means He is not subject to any authority but every authority is subject to Him. He does whatever He likes to in line with his plan and big picture.

So if He likes He will prove Himself at some occasions and would not in other occasions. Sometimed we have overbloated value of ourselves as created human beings in relation to the creator. Even in the world, monarchs do whatever they like and are not under any obligation to prove themselves unless if it pleases them to do so. How much more the God creator.

You are a god for making this very deep and very profound and very beautiful comment,.

What kind of proof do you want from GOD? Is the evidence of a global flood or the brimstone at Sodom and Gomorrah not enough?

IAmSabrina:

Lol. If I may ask who are "these christians?" @bolded
Anyway, this can only be explained by turning logic on its head, and you can trust "these christians" to do that.

Those I have argued with . Not all use this logic instead some would simply say "there is already enough evidence for the existence in nature."

Martinez39:
Those I have argued with . Not all use this logic instead some would simply say "there is already enough evidence for the existence in nature."

There are more ways than one to skin a cat, is why.

Whenever you see a multitude of intelligent creatures doing something that's unnatural, know that a higher intelligent being is involved! In most cases it is some lesser spirits who have become rebels against God's sovereignty. These spirit beings are referred to in the Bible as demons!
The Bible never taught us that the true God once prove HIMSELF simply before some unbelieving humans who has NO business with HIM. Matthew 12:39,16:4
Whenever God shows up,it's only to get HIS own worshipers organized but whoever tries to stand on the way to disorganise God's arrangement is the one before whom HE must prove HIMSELF! Exodus 6:1
* A donkey spoke! NOT because the true God feels like proving HIMSELF before some inquisitive individuals,but because the rider wants to DISORGANISE God's people! Numbers 22:27-31
* Jehovah spoke from heaven in reply to Jesus HIS only begotten son,NOT because the true God feels like proving HIMSELF,but because out of a troubled heart Jesus spoke to HIM and Jehovah wants to assure Jesus that HE has glorified HIMSELF and HE will still do so again! John 12:25-30
If you really wants God to prove HIMSELF,first make a thorough research to IDENTIFY HIS people,secondly try to ascertain their program and then try to stop them from carrying out the will of Jehovah. For a certainty HE will deal with you but i'm not sure if you'll survive HIS anger in order to live and relate the experience! Exodus 15:4 compared to Psalms 136:15

festacman:
God is sovereign. This means He is not subject to any authority but every authority is subject to Him. He does whatever He likes to in line with his plan and big picture.

No one is asking him not tondo whatever he likes (whatever that means)
So in essence, not showing himself to his creation is what he likes?

So if He likes He will prove Himself at some occasions and would not in other occasions. Sometimed we have overbloated value of ourselves as created human beings in relation to the creator. Even in the world, monarchs do whatever they like and are not under any obligation to prove themselves unless if it pleases them to do so. How much more the God creator.

He has liked not proving himself to the world for thousands of years for now, my problem he seem not to understand the consequence of such decision on human thinking.
What exactly is difficult in showing urself and saving man from being confused and uncertain

frank317:

No one is asking him not tondo whatever he likes (whatever that means)
So in essence, not showing himself to his creation is what he likes?


He has liked not proving himself to the world for thousands of years for now, my problem he seem not to understand the consequence of such decision on human thinking.
What exactly is difficult in showing urself and saving man from being confused and uncertain

God cannot show Himself to you because He is supreme spirit who has no bodily form unlike the human beings He created by putting their spirits into bodies to enable them exist physically to accomplish His purposes and plans. If physical man absolutely lacks the capacity to physically see lower spirits then it is near impossIble to see God the supreme and holiest Spirit. Spirit is superior to the body. Many spiritually gifted people as well as those who have been able to dominate their bodies in favour of meeting spirits have interesting experiences about spiritual realm.

The nearest illustration I can come up with, for now, is this. A human being creates intelligent gadgets. The level of intelligence and perceptual ability the gadgets have is subject to the purpose for which the maker intended. In the world of such gadgets, as they interact they will argue, like you are doing, why their maker cannot come in gadgetry form to prove that he made them.

festacman:

God cannot show Himself to you because He is supreme spirit who has no bodily form unlike the human beings He created by putting their spirits into bodies to enable them exist physically to accomplish His purposes and plans. If physical man absolutely lacks the capacity to physically see lower spirits then it is near impossIble to see God the supreme and holiest Spirit. Spirit is superior to the body. Many spiritually gifted people as well as those who have been able to dominate their bodies in favour of meeting spirits have interesting experiences about spiritual realm.

The nearest illustration I can come up with, for now, is this. A human being creates intelligent gadgets. The level of intelligence and perceptual ability the gadgets have is subject to the purpose for which the maker intended. In the world of such gadgets, as they interact they will argue, like you are doing, why their maker cannot come in gadgetry form to prove that he made them.

It is not even necessary for "God" to appear before anyone,what we require is just proof,any kind of proof as long as it can survive the test of reasoning.

Hermes019:

It is not even necessary for "God" to appear before anyone,what we require is just proof,any kind of proof as long as it can survive the test of reasoning.

Test of reasoning? Human physical reasoning can never decipher the proof of something spiritual FULLY or CLEARLY in the way you desire it. Open-minded and introspective inquisitiveness will decipher slightest evidence of proofs from the surrounding nature. Closed-minded inquisitiveness with set of iron-cast expectations will NEVER decipher even the clearest of such proofs. You appear to me to be more of the latter than former.

there's no such thing as GOD not stooping low. He did it in the form of Jesus when He came to earth to live a normal but poor life as a Human, washed the feet of His disciples and He died for our sins on the cross.
There isn't anyone genuinely serving God that has not seen, felt and experienced God before.
it only depends on the way He chose to show, appear or reveal Himself to us which is according to our faith, reasoning and the Spirit indwelling in us.
God is in every true believer no matter how small you are with the presence of the Holy Spirit.
there's no logic there, it's just like if you want to see someone, no matter how high he/she may be, when you do the neccessaries, you'll definitely have an appointment with them.
and what are the procedures to see God? ----> Being Born again, surrendering your life and being a friend of Jesus, living a holy and righteous life, and obeying/keeping His commandments. Once you live like this then you can see and speak to God anytime.

the problem is His Eyes can't behold SIN and according to 59:1 that same SIN has separated us from Him right from the rebellion of man in the garden of eden. But Jesus is the light and key access to that Salvation.

thank You.

Martinez39:
When you ask some christians why Yahweh wouldn't prove himself, you hear "god won't stoop so low to prove himself to man?" Seriously?

How does god proving himself to man means that he is stooping low? God wants you to be saved and he cared enough about man to go through torture and tears on the cross, so how is proving himself equivalent to stoop so low? Nevermind that he proved himself to Gideon.

Please, who can answer this? How is that logic valid?

A coach will never enter soccer pitch because he respect rules. He can substitute wonderfyl players in to change the game

SHALOM!

Martinez39:
When you ask some christians why Yahweh wouldn't prove himself, you hear "god won't stoop so low to prove himself to man?" Seriously?

How does god proving himself to man means that he is stooping low? God wants you to be saved and he cared enough about man to go through torture and tears on the cross, so how is proving himself equivalent to stoop so low? Nevermind that he proved himself to Gideon.

Please, who can answer this? How is that logic valid?

To misunderstand The Bible, you need EXPERT HELP. Reading The Bible on your own, it is difficult to misunderstand The Bible, because It is written to be understood by simpleminded folk- not geniuses.

God does nor act at random but in accordance to His COVENANT- AGREEMENTS with those whom He acts around.

You cannot demand that God prove Himself to you as He did GIDEON, because your situation is nothing like that of GIDEON.

GOD was able to speak to Gideon, because he was a Righteous man, who had served Him his whole life.

GIDEON had never blasphemed God, nor slandered His Prophets.

GIDEON was about to lead people to WAR- where HE and others Trusting in him couTkd DIE.

He had the RIGHT to demand proof that God spoke to him.

festacman:

God cannot show Himself to you because He is supreme spirit who has no bodily form unlike the human beings He created by putting their spirits into bodies to enable them exist physically to accomplish His purposes and plans. If physical man absolutely lacks the capacity to physically see lower spirits then it is near impossIble to see God the supreme and holiest Spirit. Spirit is superior to the body. Many spiritually gifted people as well as those who have been able to dominate their bodies in favour of meeting spirits have interesting experiences about spiritual realm.

The nearest illustration I can come up with, for now, is this. A human being creates intelligent gadgets. The level of intelligence and perceptual ability the gadgets have is subject to the purpose for which the maker intended. In the world of such gadgets, as they interact they will argue, like you are doing, why their maker cannot come in gadgetry form to prove that he made them.

What about doing something obvious for everyone to know he is God and not doubt him... So the people who don't believe in him can confidently say "I know this is God but I will not follow his instructions"

frank317:


What about doing something obvious for everyone to know he is God and not doubt him... So the people who don't believe in him can confidently say "I know this is God but I will not follow his instructions"

Look, every human being has innate free will to believe in God or not, having been made aware about of His existence. However, like in every acts of loyalty and faithfulness, reward and benefits await anyone who believes, obeys and loves God.

It is important to say that God the creator gains nothing by trying to prove Himself to his creature. Every creature gains tremendously by aligning with his creator and His purpose and plan. The creator is supremely superior to the creature because the creature derives his being, faculties and capacities from the creator. Of course the creature is grossly limited and inferior to the creator otherwise the creature questions the authority of the creator.

Let me also say that no one who seeks proof of God's existence can achieve his goal by having closed mind, negative inquisitiveness and a set cast-in-stone expectations. A lot of things go on in the environment that reinforces the existence of God. No doubt.

festacman:

Test of reasoning? Human physical reasoning can never decipher the proof of something spiritual FULLY or CLEARLY in the way you desire it. Open-minded and introspective inquisitiveness will decipher slightest evidence of proofs from the surrounding nature. Closed-minded inquisitiveness with set of iron-cast expectations will NEVER decipher even the clearest of such proofs. You appear to me to be more of the latter than former.

Forget this long talk,provide the proof you have but be rest assured that it would be OBJECTIVELY analysed,your are no Albert Einstein and even if you were, when it comes to metaphysical issues I don't take anyones word for it,if you are saying that God(your own description ! )exists,provide the evidence,forget about how I would interprete it

festacman:

Look, every human being has innate free will to believe in God or not, having been made aware about of His existence. However, like in every acts of loyalty and faithfulness, reward and benefits await anyone who believes, obeys and loves God.

It is important to say that God the creator gains nothing by trying to prove Himself to his creature. Every creature gains tremendously by aligning with his creator and His purpose and plan. The creator is supremely superior to the creature because the creature derives his being, faculties and capacities from the creator. Of course the creature is grossly limited and inferior to the creator otherwise the creature questions the authority of the creator.

Let me also say that no one who seeks proof of God's existence can achieve his goal by having closed mind, negative inquisitiveness and a set cast-in-stone expectations. A lot of things go on in the environment that reinforces the existence of God .No doubt.

If you are sure of the bolded,give one instance

P.s I assume you are a christian so the God you are referring to here is YHWH,correct me if I am wrong

festacman:

Test of reasoning? Human physical reasoning can never decipher the proof of something spiritual FULLY or CLEARLY in the way you desire it. Open-minded and introspective inquisitiveness will decipher slightest evidence of proofs from the surrounding nature. Closed-minded inquisitiveness with set of iron-cast expectations will NEVER decipher even the clearest of such proofs. You appear to me to be more of the latter than former.

Why is it necessary for humans to waste time believing in something that cannot be deciphered fully or clearly

Hermes019:

Forget this long talk,provide the proof you have but be rest assured that it would be OBJECTIVELY analysed,your are no Albert Einstein and even if you were, when it comes to metaphysical issues I don't take anyones word for it,if you are saying that God(your own description ! )exists,provide the evidence,forget about how I would interprete it

You as a 'being in existence' is the primary evidence that God exists.

frank317:


Why is it necessary for humans to waste time believing in something that cannot be deciphered fully or clearly

Nobody is forcing you to "waste time believing" in God because you cannot decipher his presence in and around you. You have the free will to believe in God or not to believe in Him. It is up to you but as with loyalty and faithfulness, rewards and benefits await.

Hermes019:

If you are sure of the bolded,give one instance

P.s I assume you are a christian so the God you are referring to here is YHWH,correct me if I am wrong

Who is the authority that authored and sustains the order, processes and phenomena existing in nature?

festacman:

Look, every human being has innate free will to believe in God or not, having been made aware about of His existence. However, like in every acts of loyalty and faithfulness, reward and benefits await anyone who believes, obeys and loves God.

Likewise, every human has the innate ability to believe in Superman. What's my point? Having the innate ability to believe is not the issue here, believe in something real is what we seek to establish. Who made me aware of God's existence? You, a common human like me, or God? Why should I rely on u to know that God is real?
Why should there be a reward for believing in God? What has God got to benefit if I believe in him? What does he go the extra mile rewarding me because I believe in him?

It is important to say that God the creator gains nothing by trying to prove Himself to his creature. Every creature gains tremendously by aligning with his creator and His purpose and plan. The creator is supremely superior to the creature because the creature derives his being, faculties and capacities from the creator. Of course the creature is grossly limited and inferior to the creator otherwise the creature questions the authority of the creator.

He gains nothing yet he indulges in irrelevant hide and seek and even goes ahead to reward people who believe him. How can the creation derive his being from the creator yet me and u are here arguing if the creator is real. If I derived my being from my creator, how come I don't know this creator? How come I am here sincerely trying to prove to u that he does not really exist?
If I am limited and inferior to the creator how come he wants to reward me for believing in him? Why can't he let me just b?

Let me also say that no one who seeks proof of God's existence can achieve his goal by having closed mind, negative inquisitiveness and a set cast-in-stone expectations. A lot of things go on in the environment that reinforces the existence of God. No doubt.

I have sought prove and so have many others, yet nothing to show for it. Why should I be closed minded about Gods existence? Will his existence stop achieving my dreams? Why even should my close mindedness stop from seeing my creator who u derived my being from? Is the close mindedness of an inferior being like supposed to affects the beings ability to make himself known? If so, I night not be as inferior as u say.

Based on ur response above..

-God will reward me from knowing him
-I derive my being from him
-my close minded is strong enough to stop me from knowing my creator no matter how much efforts he puts to know me

From the premise above: I might not be as inferior as u think.