CAPSLOCKED:
THERE'S NO NEED TO BOTHER I'M ALREADY ASHAMED ON YOUR BEHALVES.

TATIME:
FREEDOM Sir,begins with having the right to CHOOSE whatever you want to believe unless if your ACTIONS are becoming a threat to others!
So there is NOTHING to be ASHAMED of when someone is in having the sense of FREEDOM of CHOICE.

CAPSLOCKED:


WHAT'S SO NICE IN FORCING CHILDREN TO BELIEVE WITH THREATS OF THE THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY DON'T?
THE ACTION OF RELIGIOUS PEOPLE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THREATENING TO HUMANITY. PEOPLE HAVE DRANK PETROL FOR THEIR GOD. PEOPLE HAVE EATEN GRASSES AND SWALLOWED SNAKES FOR THEIR GODS. NIGERIA HAS BEEN UNPEACEFUL SINCE 60 BECAUSE A CERTAIN GOD DOESN'T LIKE INFIDELS AND DEMANDS THEY BE KILLED. WOMEN ARE GETTING BEATING AND SACRIFICED FOR THEIR GODS. SOME DIE BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IN THEIR GOD TO FIX THEM INSTEAD OF GOING TO A HOSPITAL WHEN SICK.

RELIGIOUS BELIEFS HAS IN THE PAST POSED SERIOUS THREATS TO THE HUMAN EXISTENCE AND STILL CONTINUES UP TO THIS DAY.

I CAN'T EVEN SLEEP IN THIS HOUSE BECAUSE IN FRONT IS LORD'S CHOSEN, BY THE SIDE IS ANOTHER MINI CHURCH AND AT THE BACK IS RCCG. EACH ONE OF THEM CONTRIBUTING REAL AMOUNTS OF NONSENSE ON A REGULAR AND YOU THINK THIS IS NOT A THREAT TO THE HEALTH OF PEOPLE? THERE ARE CHILDREN AROUND HERE. THERE ARE OLD PEOPLE TOO, IF IT WAS ALL JUICY NOBODY WOULD TALK BUT CASES HAS BEEN MADE AGAINST THEM COUNTLESSLY BUT SOMEHOW THE POLICE LET'S THEM BE AFTER TAKING THEIR MONIES.

KNOCKING ON MY DOOR TO PROMISE ME HELL IF I DON'T LET CHRISTIAN EVANGELISTS "SAVE ME" IS NOT FREEDOM.
ACCUSING PEOPLE FOR BEING WITCHES AND MARINE MERMAIDS, AND HUMILITY THEM IN THE NAME OF DELIVERANCE IS NOT FREEDOM.
COLLECTING WIDOWS AND POOR MARKET WOMEN'S MONEY AFTER PROMISING THEM DOUBLE FOLDS WHEN IN REALITY, THEY'RE JUST GONNA GET POORER IS NOT FREEDOM.
DISSUADING PEOPLE FROM GOING FOR HEALTHCARE, OR LEAVING AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE MAGIC OIL AND WATER TO SELL IS NOT FREEDOM.
WAGING WAR WITH DEFENSELESS INNOCENT PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE ALLAH WANTS IT IS NOT FREEDOM.
MAKING CHILDREN DRINK COW PISS IS NOT FREEDOM.

YOU NEED TO REEVALUATE WHAT YOUR FREEDOM MEAN
NO RELIGIOUS BELIEF SHOULD BE RESPECTED OR GIVEN THE FREEDOM TO THRIVE. THIS SOCIETY DOESN'T NEED THEM FOR THINGS TO WORK.

CAPSLOCKED:

NO RELIGIOUS BELIEF SHOULD BE RESPECTED OR GIVEN THE FREEDOM TO THRIVE. THIS SOCIETY DOESN'T NEED THEM FOR THINGS TO WORK.
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joseph1013:
Olatunde Olayinka Ayinde

One Nigerian nurse in the UK was busy preaching to her patient who wasn't interested in her religious message and said as much. The nurse continued to try to "win her patient's soul". The patient reported her to her superiors, and after several warnings and continued refusal to mend her ways, she was fired.

Our Nigerian Voltrons went gaga, playing the race card and the persecuted Christian card. Even respected senior colleagues were not left out. I was so ashamed. How many times are we going to say this? It is not our bloody job as doctors or nurses to be winning soul on the job! Especially when the patient expressly forbids us from doing so! And after having been warned several times to desist from such unethical behavior!

I once saw a patient who had schizophrenia and his idea of illness causation was spiritual. The auditory hallucinations were due to evil spirits - jinns. The delusions that everyone was talking about him and were part of a giant conspiracy to defame him and ruin his reputation were also part of a complex spiritual warfare.

Did I have a strong urge to tell him that it was all nonsense? Definitely. Did I have an almost irresistible urge to introduce him to critical thinking and give an elegant scientific treatise on schizophrenia, devoid of religious and superstitious mumbo jumbo? You bet!

But that wasn't my job description. It was not in the ethics of my profession to "convert" a patient from one religion to another or to unbelief, despite my own strong lack of religion. My job was to get him well, using all the evidence based tools science has made available to me, using the patients own personal resources and navigating with him factors that may be impediments to his recovery or that may constitute danger to him, according to the scientific body of knowledge, while treating him with absolute respect and preserving his dignity in that therapeutic process.

So, I told him that his beliefs were valid as far as beliefs go and I respected them, after listening respectfully to him. However, I also told him that we psychiatrists have a neuroscientific understanding of his condition based on evidence from years of research. We also have treatment based on this understanding that have proved efficacious. And we negotiated his treatment plan.

When he told me that he was still drinking the camel urine brought for him from Mecca for treating schizophrenia, I was expectedly livid but professionalism demanded that I remained calm and expressionless, and tactfully removed the camel urine from the regimen while retaining the special prayers he said from time to time for the cure of his illness. What harm would prayer do? Of course, if all of these were spewed here on Facebook by some arrogantly ignorant fellow, I know exactly what my response would have been. But here, in a clinical setting, at work, my personal opinion or religious philosophy was totally irrelevant. And when passing scientifically accurate information, it had to be done respectfully and in a dignified manner.

Even when he called me the following day that he did not take his sedative because he did not think his poor sleep was due to schizophrenia but was due to an evil spirit tapping him to wake up every night, and he might annoy the evil spirit by taking medications for sleep, I still remained calm. He would prefer to pray for the sleep problem, he said. Of course, I could have argued that his view was nonsense and unscientific, but solving his sleep problem was my priority at the time. So I told him that all our previous patients had not reported that evil spirits were annoyed with them for taking drugs for sleep (true) and as a concession to him and the spirits, he could combine the sleep medicine with prayer, since the spirits were okay with prayer.

At that stage of treatment, getting him well was the priority, and keeping him in treatment was a huge part of succeeding at it. Navigating his health beliefs without necessarily replacing his worldview with mine was of paramount importance. "Winning his soul" was not within my professional purview; neither was it within my ethical bounds. With improvement in health status over time, patient education on his illness continued, without tampering with his religious beliefs, until he was able to gain mastery of the illness.

Healthcare workers need to be trained to separate their own personal opinion or religious philosophy from scientifically sound medical care of patient. It is a matter of ethics and professionalism. "Winning souls" of patients at their weakest and most vulnerable moment is an abuse of professional powers and privileges. That is the job of chaplains and imams, and there are provisions for inviting such professionals trained in working with sick persons to assist the physician in his work.

joseph1013:
THE GODS OF MEN

An all-knowing god invented by ignorant men will be as ignorant as its inventors.

Read the Old Testament. Does Yahweh know infinitely more than we know today? Or about as much as an Iron Age man who's mastered reading and writing?

joseph1013:
DEBATING THEISTS: WHAT IT'S REALLY LIKE

Arguing with some theists can be very frustrating. Honestly, it's not because they have arguments that are unanswerable nor is it because they constantly come up with new arguments that challenge our intellects.

On the contrary, every argument for God I've ever heard is as holey as a finely made doughnut and I have not heard a new argument in the last 5 years.

To help theists understand what it feels like to argue with a theist, I came up with an analogy. Imagine you're in a local market and the tomato seller gives you the wrong change. You point out her error but she denies it and insists the change is correct.

It's as clear as daylight that she's made a mistake so you go through it step-by-step, I gave you a N1000.00 note, my shopping came to N700.00, so I need N300.00 change. "No sir," she replies, "N1000.00 minus N700 is N300.00."

For a moment, you doubt yourself and redo the arithmetic in your mind. You give an embarrassed laugh,

"N1000.00 minus N700 is N300.00".
"No it isn't".

What do you do next?

Debating on social media, there is a limit to the number of times you can repeat the logic. You can try putting it a different way, you can make explicit steps you might have implied but eventually you arrive at deadlock and frustration.

There are different ways you can proceed from here. I normally step away and resolve not to debate that person again. Some atheists lose their cool and swear or resort to insults. That's regrettable and I wish they wouldn't.

But you might ponder what you would do if the tomato seller situation actually happened to you. Oh boy, it would be very hard to stay calm and polite.

I wonder how many people would manage it?

CAPSLOCKED:


YOU CAN'T COMPARE BELIEVING IN DEITIES TO THIS TOMATO SELLER TALE.

THESE PEOPLE "BELIEVE" IN AND FEEL THIS SUPERNATURAL THING WITH THEIR EMOTIONS, IN THEIR MINDS. YOU CAN'T EQUATE BELIEFS AND FAITH WITH SUBTRACTING 700 FROM 1000. CAN I SAY THIS ANALOGY MAKES NO SENSE?

hahn:


It makes perfect sense as an ANALOGY

HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO COMPARE SOMETHING OBSERVABLE AND EASILY PHYSICALLY CALCULATEABLE TO PEOPLE'S RELIGIOUS B E L I E F S

CAPSLOCKED:


HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO COMPARE SOMETHING OBSERVABLE AND EASILY PHYSICALLY CALCULATEABLE TO PEOPLE'S RELIGIOUS B E L I E F S

hahn:


You obviously don't understand the analogy.

CAPSLOCKED:


EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED YOU TO COME UP WITH.

WITH A CALCULATOR, PAPER AND PEN, OR THE INVOLVEMENT OF ONE OR MORE PEOPLE AROUND THE TOMATO SELLER CAN BE EASIER CONVINCED SHE'S WRONG.

IT'S NOT THE SAME THING WITH THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS WHEN THEY'RE EXPECTING YOU TO "PROVE" THAT THE GOD THEY TALK TO EVERYDAY, RECIEVE FAVOURS FROM AND FEEL IN THEIR HEARTS DOESN'T EXIST.

hahn:


The aim of his story was to point out just how silly theists argument can be. That's all

CAPSLOCKED:


TO POINT OUT TO THEISTS OR ATHEISTS?

MANY ATHEISTS CAN RELATE BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. BUT FOR THE THEISTS THAT HE INTENDS TO POINT OUT TO, THEY'RE JUST GOING TO LAUGH AND THINK THAT HE'S MAD.
READ MY LAST POST AGAIN.

CAPSLOCKED:
THE PROBLEM WITH FAITH AND BELIEVING THE BIBLE IS THAT IT CAUSES THE MIND TO BECOME REDUNDANT.

IF THE BIBLE SAYS JONAH WAS SWALLOWED BY A WHALE AND LIVED INSIDE THE WHALE FOR THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS, ONE BELIEVES IT.

IF THE BIBLE SAID JONAH SWALLOWED A WHALE AND IT LIVED INSIDE JONAH FOR THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS, ONE BELIEVES IT.

leaving the faith