'There Are Limitations To Free Speech' Says London Mayor After Street Preacher's Arrest
Staff writer Fri 22 Mar 2019 10:46 GMT
Oluwole Ilesanmi was arrested outside Southgate tube station in London

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has addressed the recent arrest and subsequent de-arrest of a street preacher outside Southgate tube station.

Video footage of Oluwole Ilesanmi being arrested by police for a "breach of the peace" went viral on social media and has now been viewed over 2 million times.

Police arrested Mr Ilesanmi after a member of the public complained that he had made 'Islamophobic' comments. No further action was taken and Mr Ilesanmi was subsequently de-arrested.

However, a complaint was later lodged against Enfield police over their handling of the situation after Mr Ilesanmi said he had been released by police some distance from Southgate and was only able to make his way back with the help of a member of the public who paid for his bus fare.

The incident has given rise to concerns about freedom of speech for Christians.

Addressing Mr Ilesanmi's arrest during Mayor's Question Time at the London Assembly on Thursday, Mr Khan said: "I expect the police to take this matter seriously."

Although Mr Khan said it would be inappropriate for him to comment on the specific case in light of the ongoing review by the borough's Professional Standards Unit, he defended the right of police to investigate allegations of criminal offence.

"It's always been clear that freedom of speech is critical and must be protected but also the police must be able to investigate when allegations are made of a criminal offence," he said.

"Police officers have to strike a difficult balance on this issue on a regular basis and in complex circumstances, such as policing protests and public order incidents."

He said the London Metropolitan Police appreciated the "sensitivities" involved and took "seriously" the duty to be balanced.

He added: "The Commissioner and I both believe that the law should be applied to all Londoners irrespective of their background and beliefs and without fear or favour. As part of this, our police officers are rightly expected to always uphold the highest standards."

Responding to his comments, assembly member and Christian, David Kurten, said free speech was an "important" right and that there were aspects of Mr Ilesanmi's arrest that he had found "disturbing," including the police taking away his Bible.

He said there was a fear, particularly among Christians, that freedom of speech was being "undermined".

Pressing the mayor on whether Christians could openly read from any part of the Bible without fear of arrest, Mr Khan refused to rule out the possibility of similar incidents happening again in the future.

"There's not an unlimited right to freedom of expression or free speech. There are limitations and there's a balance that needs to be done," said Mr Khan.

"But I'm quite clear in my own views - we should go as far as we can to uphold that really important principle [of free speech] and that includes discourse about religion."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCmtyj8jgm4

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/there-are-limitations-to-free-speech-says-london-mayor-after-street-preachers-arrest/132049.htm

You can't stand everywhere in England to bleep The Queen. There are places especially prepared for such Reportage.

orisa37:


You can't stand everywhere in England to bleep The Queen. There are places especially prepared for such Reportage.

Where did Jesus commission us to preach the gospel?

Jesus cautioned us to behave in many ways. He said we should leave immediately wherever we are not accepted. He also advised us to always settle with our Adversaries on the way.

orisa37:


Jesus cautioned us to behave in many ways.
He said we should leave immediately wherever we are not accepted.
He also advised us to always settle with our Adversaries on the way.

If anyone tells you that you cannot preach in public places simply do what Peter, Paul and the rest of the early disciples did.

Human Courtesy: when in Rome, live like the Romans. Jesus approves this too.

"There are limitations to free speech."

Liberals, as usual, ruin societies and western values.

"There are limitations to free speech."

Liberals, as usual, ruin societies and western values.

orisa37:


Human Courtesy: when in Rome, live like the Romans. Jesus approves this too.

So if you discover fire burning in your neighbour's house wouldn't you raise an alarm to warn him?

In 1960, I lived in 12 Hargrave. London. Some Nigerians lived in 42. There was a peculiar music. "Fire, Fire, Fire, Fire, Fire gbetan", coming from 42. So the Oyinbos living opposite 42 invited Fire fighting Brigade to flush the Nigerians out of 42, before they raze down the whole of Hargraves.

orisa37:


In 1960, I lived in 12 Hargrave. London. Some Nigerians lived in 42. There was a peculiar music. "Fire, Fire, Fire, Fire, Fire gbetan", coming from 42. So the Oyinbos living opposite 42 invited Fire fighting Brigade to flush the Nigerians out of 42, before they raze down the whole of Hargraves.

That one is story. Answer my question.

orisa37:
In 1960, I lived in 12 Hargrave. London. Some Nigerians lived in 42. There was a peculiar music. "Fire, Fire, Fire, Fire, Fire gbetan", coming from 42. So the Oyinbos living opposite 42 invited Fire fighting Brigade to flush the Nigerians out of 42, before they raze down the whole of Hargraves.

Lol!

I've been listening to Deuteronomy and must say, parts of it would not be permissibly read on the streets of London. You can't read parts of the Quran either and you cannot insult peoples' race or sexuality. You'd be arrested. As in, popo will come to your house to arrest you even if you ran away from the scene. You don't have the freedom to say any nonsense you want on London streets!

budaatum:

Lol!

.

Up till now, you can't wake up at 8.00 am on a Sunday morning singing, "God saves our Gracious Queen", on top of your voice. Your neighbours will get you arrested.
What is good for Afonja in Ilorin can never be good even for Buhari at Trafalgar Square.

The forced globalisation and multiculturalism on Europe is killing it. These are causing the gradual Islamisation of Europe and the possibility of an eventual Islamic caliphate. Thanks to the left, especially the political elites and academic elites. The left, with their loathing for western values and white people(usually white males), have oppressed free speech for many people all in the name of opposing "hate speech." You can't criticise Islam otherwise you are termed Islamophobic. Even worse, you are sometimes called a racist and bigot for criticising Islam, the muslim community and pointing out the fact that Islam is not compatible with western culture and will not integrate. However, they give you a free pass if you criticise and mock christianity.

When, at various times, muslims held protests in France, Belgium, England and other countries and burned the flags of these countries, no one did a thing. Even when they expressed their disdain for western values and culture and their desire to establish an Islamic caliphate and sharia, no one did a thing. A man preaches christianity and he is arrested. Police even knock at your door if your statements on the internet are deemed islamophobic. If you receive death threats on the internet from muslims because you criticised Islam, the police does nothing because they don't want to called racist, islamophobic, bigoted and get punished by the leftists authority and establishment. Because of this attitude, Pakistani paedophilic rape gangs who have raped and groomed over 2,000 victims were covered up by the police, media and authorities because they wanted to preserve their narrative that Islam is a religion of peace and multiculturalism is good.

Do you know that if a girl is kidnapped by a Pakistan paedophilic rape gang and her father directs the police to the location of the rapists and kidnapped daughter, the police will arrest the father and daughter even when, in many cases, the girl (11-13 years of age) will be found alone with a group of Pakistanis molesting her. Their excuse? "the girl provoked the men to act the way they did and she was too flirty" and "the father was aggressive towards the men and caused them discomfort." I kid you not. Despite being in a community that's 15% of the population, these gangs are responsible for 85% of rape case in Britain. That's how bad the complacency and cover up are when it comes to Islam. However, the same people that shield Islam in such manner and oppress anyone criticising Islam frequently mock and criticize christianity, western values and culture and white people (usually white males). If you also mock these things, they will give you a free pass.

These rapes crime were ignored by the police, media and establishment. It took the English Defence League (EDL) to bring this matter to everyone's awareness. Even at that, the EDL members were branded racists, thugs, violent, bigots and far right extremists for doing what they did. Though the EDL isn't what it used and has deteriorated into something worse.

After every terrorist attack, the media unfailingly tries, repeatedly, to tell everyone "... this attack has nothing to do with Islam," "ISIS has nothing to do with Islam," "Al-Quaeda has nothing to do with Islam," etc. With the way they go about it, you will think that they are trying to say "Islam has nothing to do with Islam." Sadiq Khan once said "terrorism is part of living in a large society." I could go on about the media but I will stop here.

In other words, the west is dying from leftist principles. Other leftist ideas and principles such as socialism (they haven't had the chance to implement); censorship of speeches, debates and ideas they don't like; anti-democratic behaviours (they are for democracy until an election yields the result they don't like) and political correctness are bad for any western society. The preacher should take heart, it's the system.

Martinez39:
The forced globalisation and multiculturalism on Europe is killing it. These are causing the gradual Islamisation of Europe and the possibility of an eventual Islamic caliphate.

We have people with this your ideology in UK, and regarding black people. "This is causing the blackanisation of Europe", they say. Thankfully, the law protects us from far right terrorists who must shut the fuq up or go to jail!

Europe doesn't accept that our existence forces "globalisation and multiculturalism on Europe", because they know "globalisation and multiculturalism" began long ago when they were going about forcing it on the whole world.

Martinez39:

Do you know that if a girl is kidnapped by a Pakistan paedophilic rape gang and her father directs the police to the location of the rapists and kidnapped daughter, the police will arrest the father and daughter even when, in many cases, the girl (11-13 years of age) will be found alone with a group of Pakistanis molesting her. Their excuse? "the girl provoked the men to act the way they did and she was too flirty" and "the father was aggressive towards the men and caused them discomfort." I kid you not.

This is untrue! Sex with an underage person younger than 16 years old is a crime all over Europe regardless of your colour or religion, and the authorities are duty bound to protect the young and vulnerable.

Rochdale child sex abuse ring

budaatum:

This is untrue! Sex with an underage person younger than 16 years old is a crime all over Europe regardless of your colour or religion, and the authorities are duty bound to protect the young and vulnerable.

Rochdale child sex abuse ring

I never said sex with an underaged girl was okay in Europe. Of course it's a crime throughout Europe but what happens when a group is given free passes for silly reasons? It took the EDL before something was done about this. Why should that have been the case? What I typed is factual and happened.

budaatum:

We have people with this your ideology in UK, and regarding black people. "This is causing the blackanisation of Europe", they say. Thankfully, the law protects us from far right terrorists who must shut the fuq up or go to jail!

Europe doesn't accept that our existence forces "globalisation and multiculturalism on Europe", because they know "globalisation and multiculturalism" began long ago when they were going about forcing it on the whole world.

Hmmmmm. Having an ideology similar to mine has no bearing on the truthfulness of my claims. Beside, I never mentioned that far right extremism was okay or even brought them to my discussion. If read my post, you will see where I said "... the EDL isn't what it used to be and have deteriorated into something worse." So I don't get what this is about.

You seem to lose grasp of the simple point. The fact that people have travelled to different parts of the world in the past does not justify uncontrolled mass illegal immigration, does it? I never said our existence forces globalisation and multiculturalism. The leftist unelected bureaucratic bully called the European Union has made it mandatory for member countries to open their borders, without restraint, to immigrants. Most of the immigrants coming to Europe are people from Muslim countries and Africa. It has been it show that the muslim community, thanks to their breeding rate, will, in future, make the white population a minority. Many at times, this silly open border policy permits the worst of men and women in Europe ---- men and women who are dedicated to spreading the Jihad. The islamophobia, racist and bigot tags given to anyone who points out the incompatibility of Islam and western values are not even helping.

It is clear that such immigration is tearing the middle/working class communities and have led to cultural clashes. The need to preserve the culture, gaining sovereignty as a nation to make their own rules and control their borders were three of the reasons people voted brexit in the 2016 referendum.

Martinez39:
The leftist unelected bureaucratic bully called the European Union has made it mandatory for member countries to open their borders, without restraint, to immigrants.

That's not true! Every country has the right to control its non-European immigration. Some member nations even built walls to keep immigrants out and no European parliament opposed them.

Martinez39:
The need to preserve the culture, gaining sovereignty as a nation to make their own rules and control their borders were three of the reasons people voted brexit in the 2016 referendum.

True, but farce. UK needs immigrants to fill the jobs its better educated people would rather not do and to grow it's economy. But, I'll let the jury be out on this and return in a couple of years or so to point out how immigration to UK grew, and not shrunk, as some might have hoped. For now, note that The Office for National Statistics said net migration of non-EU nationals in the year to June 2018 was 248,000 - the highest total in 14 years.

budaatum:

That's not true! Every country has the right to control its non-European immigration. Some member nations even built walls to keep immigrants out and no European parliament opposed them.

I will research on the wall in that article. However, I know for a fact that the EU enforces the open border policy on it's member countries and threaten, with legal action, those that go against that as in the case of Italy, Hungary and Poland. It took Salvini a lot to be able to pass his border bill after so much threat and bullying from the EU. The EU brands controlled and closed borders as xenophobic. Imagine.

True, but farce. UK needs immigrants to fill the jobs its better educated people would rather not do and to grow it's economy. But, I'll let the jury be out on this and return in a couple of years or so to point out how immigration to UK grew, and not shrunk, as some might have hoped. For now, note that The Office for National Statistics said net migration of non-EU nationals in the year to June 2018 was 248,000 - the highest total in 14 years.

What?! Mass illegal immigrants or controlled legal immigrants? So everyone in the UK is better educated? Not at all. There are lowers class citizens who are willing to do any kind of work. These people are sufficient to grow the economy. Illegal migrants come in and are willing to do the same jobs for lesser pay leading to a decrease in wages and consequently a low standard of living in the working class community. The economy of Britain is better of without mass illegal immigration when you consider the tax payers money spent on the welfare of these people; the overcrowding of working class communities and cultural clashes.

British people and legal immigrants are more than sufficient to grow the economy. Brexiteers are not against legal immigrants. No country needs more illegal immigrants.

Martinez39:
I will research on the wall in that article. However, I know for a fact that the EU enforces the open border policy on it's member countries and threaten, with legal action, those that go against that as in the case of Italy, Hungary and Poland.

Free movement of European Citizens is what EU fights for 39, and not free movement of immigrants (who incidentally must have visas to enter Europe), nor asylum seekers who ought to apply for asylum in the first European country they arrive in.

Martinez39:
What?! Mass illegal immigrants or controlled legal immigrants? So everyone in the UK is better educated? Not at all. There are lowers class citizens who are willing to do any kind of work. These people are sufficient to grow the economy.

No, not "better educated" per se, though many think they are but aren't, and not "willing to do any job", but consider themselves better than to do certain jobs like care and clean the poo off the bottoms of their own old for what the employers of such people is willing to pay.

Martinez39:
Illegal migrants come in and are willing to do the same jobs for lesser pay leading to a decrease in wages and consequently a low standard of living in the working class community.

It's actually worse that this, 39. The employers go to other countries to specifically employ immigrants who work harder and are willing to do the same jobs for less pay and benefits which increases the employers profits.

Martinez39:
The economy of Britain is better of without mass illegal immigration when you consider the tax payers money spent on the welfare of these people; the overcrowding of working class communities and cultural clashes.

Most immigrants are net contributors to the UK economy and do not just live on the pittance that welfare pays. And to be honest, we are not exactly overcrowded at all. Or what would you be saying when the population of UK hits 100 million or more?

As for cultural clashes, do note that the op of this thread mentioned the Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan of a city which the 2011 census recorded has "48.4% of Londoners cosidered themselves to be Christian, 12.39% considered themselves Muslim, 5% Hindu, 1.82% Jewish, 1.5% Sikh, 1% Buddhist and 0.6% Other. A large proportion, 20.73% of respondents, stated that they followed no religion". I would not call that "cultural clash", under the circumstances, but a liberal society, (and not to be mistaken with American liberalism, as defined by some).

Martinez39:
British people and legal immigrants are more than sufficient to grow the economy. Brexiteers are not against legal immigrants. No country needs more illegal immigrants.

We may not need illegal immigrants, but the evidence on ground suggests that once they arrive we find a use for them. And when they don't arrive by themselves, we literally go and beg them to come here. (Though, we do make a show of not wanting them so as not to piss off the locals.)

budaatum:

Free movement of European Citizens is what EU fights for 39, and not free movement of immigrants (who incidentally must have visas to enter Europe), nor asylum seekers who ought to apply for asylum in the first European country they arrive in.

The fact still remains that the EU fights for open borders and are supportive of mass illegal immigration. These immigrants are most non-Europeans coming from Africa and Islamic countries. I know this for a fact. The EU and the biased media cover this evil in the name of multiculturalism, diversity and not being xenophobic. Many at times, you hear "diversity is our strength" and other silly things they have to say.

No, not "better educated" per se, though many think they are but aren't, and not "willing to do any job", but consider themselves better than to do certain jobs like care and clean the poo off the bottoms of their own old for what the employers of such people is willing to pay.

this is not true, it's not just true. There are lower class British people who are willing to do various jobs to survives. They are British folks who are homeless; who park trash; clean streets and do many other jobs. You will always find them.

It's actually worse that this, 39. The employers go to other countries to specifically employ immigrants who work harder and are willing to do the same jobs for less pay and benefits which increases the employers profits.

Lol. This is false. Why would employers travel out to get illegal immigrants that would work for lesser pay when they are everywhere in their community? Still you just proved why illegal immigration is bad for the working class community. If illegal immigration were not allowed, employers would have no choice than to employ legal immigrants and indigenous British folks at a reasonable wage. Smuggling illegal immigrants, under such condition, would ignite a strike action and such illegal act could put the company in trouble. With illegal immigration abolished, the working class people can do their jobs with reasonable pay without competing with illegal aliens on who can accept the least pay.

Uncontrolled illegal mass immigration overcrowds the working class community, leads to a decrease in standard of living; makes strike action ineffective and leads to cultural clashes. It's terrible to know that you live in a country where ANYONE can walk into your country just like that. Never mind that British government ignore the homeless british folks and spend heavily on the welfare of illegal immigrants --- what an insult to the British people.

Most immigrants are net contributors to the UK economy and do not just live on the pittance that welfare pays. And to be honest, we are not exactly overcrowded at all. Or what would you be saying when the population of UK hits 100 million or more?

Buda! buda!! buda!!! How many times did I call you? Stop making the dishonest "error" leftist use when trying to support illegal immigration. Which immigrants are we talking about? LEGAL OR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS? both indigenous citizens and legal migrants obviously contribute to the country. Brexiteers are not against legal immigrants.

Next time be specific on what type of immigrants you are talking about. I won't spare you if you make this mistake again. By the way, the whole britain is not overcrowded instead it is the working class communities. They are the ones that feel the heat of uncontrolled illegal mass immigration.

As for cultural clashes, do note that the op of this thread mentioned the Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan of a city which the 2011 census recorded has "48.4% of Londoners cosidered themselves to be Christian, 12.39% considered themselves Muslim, 5% Hindu, 1.82% Jewish, 1.5% Sikh, 1% Buddhist and 0.6% Other. A large proportion, 20.73% of respondents, stated that they followed no religion". I would not call that "cultural clash", under the circumstances, but a liberal society, (and not to be mistaken with American liberalism, as defined by some).

Why are you calling London when I am talking about core working class communities? When talking about cultural clashes, note that the presence of different religions is not the criterion for cultural. Peaceful coexistence is possible with such conditions.

The cultural clash in working class communities stem from the incompatibility of the Islamic culture and western culture. There are certain parts of England where English men can't walk through because they have been termed "Islamic no-go area." English women in working class communities have to dress "decently" in muslim areas or there would be an outrage. In France, French women in certain parts cannot move out without dressing "appropriately" and being accompanied by a man. Take the Charlie Hebdo attack for example, that's a cultural clash --- freedom of speech and expression vs. censorship on what you can draw about Muhammad. There are many cases of this all over Europe but the authorities are soft hence the need for Brexit so that the British people can get their sovereignty and make their own laws.

We may not need illegal immigrants, but the evidence on ground suggests that once they arrive we find a use for them. And when they don't arrive by themselves, we literally go and beg them to come here. (Though, we do make a show of not wanting them so as not to piss off the locals.)

Before nko . Which employer would not find someone who is willing to work for lesser pay useful? However this comes at a cost as I have explained earlier.

Martinez39:
The fact still remains that the EU fights for open borders and are supportive of mass illegal immigration. These immigrants are most non-Europeans coming from Africa and Islamic countries. I know this for a fact.

Martinez39, you know very well that the atheistic demon in me does not take what you "know for fact" on "an indestructible immortal rainbow coloured elephant eternally hibernating in the centre of planet Neptune".

Please provide me with evidence for bolds above so that my ignorance can reduce. I immensely thank you in advance.

budaatum:
I've been listening to Deuteronomy and must say, parts of it would not be permissibly read on the streets of London. You can't read parts of the Quran either and you cannot insult peoples' race or sexuality. You'd be arrested. As in, popo will come to your house to arrest you even if you ran away from the scene. You don't have the freedom to say any nonsense you want on London streets!

Meanwhile, they claim they still have free speech.

@ budaatum

Let us have it in mind that in Britain, illegal immigration cost each tax payer more than £4,000 per year. With the total money spent on illegal immigrants being £3.7billion. Nothing only do they overcrowd and work for less pay (and consequentially decreasing the standard of living), they are costing people money. Imagine if that was used to help struggling legal immigrants and English citizens.

Let's not consider the fact that the illegal muslim immigrants are breeding at an average of four children per mother. Worse is when you consider that these Muslims can have up to four wives. With this, UK is bound to be an Islamic state. Such impending erosion of cultural identity warrants Brexit and Islamisation (obviously, Muslims will demand sharia when they are a majority is history is anything to go by. In fact, there are signs of this).

budaatum:

Martinez39, you know very well that the atheistic demon in me does not take what you "know for fact" on "an indestructible immortal rainbow coloured elephant eternally hibernating in the centre of planet Neptune".

Please provide me with evidence for bolds above so that my ignorance can reduce. I immensely thank you in advance.

Martinez39:

this is not true, it's not just true. There are lower class British people who are willing to do various jobs to survives. They are British folks who are homeless; who park trash; clean streets and do many other jobs. You will always find them.

In UK, we do not harden our heart, nor shut our hand from anyone. We do what need be done so that there shall be no poor among us.

UK runs what is called a liberal welfare state system. It means you will be provided for if you are unable to work, you will be treated if you fall ill, your children's education will be paid till they are 16. If you are homeless we will offer you a place over your head and food in your belly. If you are without work we will pay rent to your landlord until you find new employment, and if your new employment is below the amount we believe a person of your age and health condition and responsibility (i.e., children, caring for an older relative etc), should live on, we will top it up for you. If you die, even, we will bury you if your relatives can't. You might imagine many might want to take advantage.

But you are correct, it is not only the low skilled people whom we seek. We are currently forty two thousand nurses short and we always welcome doctors and engineers regardless of legality. No non-brain users though. They are very unwelcome!

9inches:

Meanwhile, they claim they still have free speech.

United Kingdom citizens have a negative right to freedom of expression under the common law. However, there is a broad sweep of exceptions which you are not free to say and include threatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior intending or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress or cause a breach of the peace (which has been used to prohibit racist speech targeted at individuals), sending any article which is indecent or grossly offensive with an intent to cause distress or anxiety (which has been used to prohibit speech of a racist or anti-religious nature), incitement, incitement to racial hatred, incitement to religious hatred, incitement to terrorism including encouragement of terrorism and dissemination of terrorist publications, glorifying terrorism, collection or possession of a document or record containing information likely to be of use to a terrorist, treason including advocating for the abolition of the monarchy (which cannot be successfully prosecuted) or compassing or imagining the death of the monarch, sedition (no longer illegal, sedition and seditious libel (as common law offences) were abolished by section 73 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 (with effect on 12 January 2010)), obscenity, indecency including corruption of public morals and outraging public decency, defamation, prior restraint, restrictions on court reporting including names of victims and evidence and prejudicing or interfering with court proceedings, prohibition of post-trial interviews with jurors, scandalising the court by criticising or murmuring judges, time, manner, and place restrictions, harassment, privileged communications, trade secrets, classified material, copyright, patents, military conduct, and limitations on commercial speech such as advertising. You can pretty much say whatever you want except say or do those listed above.

Free speech is one of those "beans is definitely not beans" sort of things, with different nations cooking their own their own ways.

budaatum:

In UK, we do not harden our heart, nor shut our hand from anyone. We do what need be done so that there shall be no poor among us.

LWKMD . That link leads to www.biblegateway.com and brings out Deuteronomy chapter 15. What does that have to do with anything? Admit I won this one (just like I admit when I'm wrong). Virtue signalling and going emotional won't win the case and nullify the facts I gave. This is really funny of you.

UK runs what is called a liberal welfare state system. It means you will be provided for if you are unable to work, you will be treated if you fall ill, your children's education will be paid till they are 16. If you are homeless we will offer you a place over your head and food in your belly. If you are without work we will pay rent to your landlord until you find new employment, and if your new employment is below the amount we believe a person of your age and health condition and responsibility (i.e., children, caring for an older relative etc), should live on, we will top it up for you. If you die, even, we will bury you if your relatives can't. You might imagine many might want to take advantage.

Exactly! Many want to take advantage. The greatest beneficiaries of the welfare system are illegal muslim immigrants where a family even give birth to more than four children and still collect welfare for them. The issue here is that the government should have made sure that the welfare system benefit the British people first before any other. What's worse is that poor British people are ignored by the government who put these illegal immigrants first in the welfare system. More insulting is that it's the British tax payers money.

Though this was unnecessary but you agreed with me that there is a welfare system. However this virtual signalling and emotional appeal does not justify uncontrolled illegal mass immigration. Britain is for the British people, Pakistan is for the Pakistanis. Britain must first cater for it's people first, Pakistan must cater for Pakistanis first.

But you are correct, it is not only the low skilled people whom we seek. We are currently forty two thousand nurses short and we always welcome doctors and engineers regardless of legality. No non-brain users though. They are very unwelcome!

Health workers are short not because they are few but because of overcrowding thanks to uncontrolled illegal mass immigration. Another disadvantage of uncontrolled illegal mass immigration.



Virtue signalling everywhere.

Martinez39:
LWKMD . That link leads to www.biblegateway.com and brings out Deuteronomy chapter 15. What does that have to do with anything? Admit I won this one (just like I admit when I'm wrong). Virtue signalling and going emotional won't win the case and nullify the facts I gave. This is really funny of you.

Martinez39, I am not in a juvenile battle with you nor am I here for you. Besides, elephants don't fight gnats, so win please, win. Know, though, my links lead exactly where I intend them to lead, but I don't expect a person to whom beans are beans to see where.

budaatum:

Martinez39, I am not in a juvenile battle with you nor am I here for you. Besides, elephants don't fight gnats, so win please, win. Know, though, my links lead exactly where I intend them to lead, but I don't expect a person to whom beans are beans to see where.

Maybe I gave the wrong impression. Of course, we are having a matured discussion and I really enjoyed the discussion. All I meant to say was that you should come to terms with the fact that your position on this issue has been crushed and stop trying to defend it still.

Once a position has been crushed by fact, virtue signalling and going emotional cannot recover such position. I admitted in our last discussion that christian atheist was possible on checking another meaning of the word "christian," why can't you do the same?