Karleb:


This is one thing I don't like about you people. You all keep saying this.

But have you ever asked yourself the what if question?

I mean, what if you die and still go to hell anyway because Odin is the one true God?

Then I would be a fool to not believe in odin. So, is there any truth you could open my eyes and brains to on this odin matter?

Karleb:


This is one thing I don't like about you people. You all keep saying this.

But have you ever asked yourself the what if question?

I mean, what if you die and still go to hell anyway because Odin is the one true God?

Then it would be foolishh for anyone to not believe in odin. Great news, we humans all have what it takes to know the truth that explains our reality. It's called brain.

9inches:

Then I would be a fool to not believe in odin. So, is there any truth you could open my eyes and brains to on this odin matter?

This is laughable!

If you wish to know about Odin, Thor, Hela, Loki and the rest then befriend marvel and try to see the Avengers' movie and also watch out for Avengers - End Game.

LordReed:
You are the one who is wrong as there is no absolute standard by which any of those things are measured.

Is this an opinion or you know it to be an absolute truth?

LordReed:
Not even your god claim holds up to its own purported standard.

How so?

LordReed:
BTW this a side step from the issue at hand which how do we measure your god's actions.

I already answered that. Here

9inches:
....same way the effects of truth, justice, good, beauty, trust, love, empathy, honesty, grace.... could be measured, seen or recorded.

Karleb:

This is laughable!

If you wish to know about Odin, Thor, Hela, Loki and the rest then befriend marvel and try to see the Avengers' movie and also watch out for Avengers - End Game.

But we are trying to explain/understand reality here and you're talking movies.

Thor piafukwa isi there!

9inches:

Is this an opinion or you know it to be an absolute truth?

How so?


I already answered that. Here

The mere fact that your god does not follow it's own standard is demonstration enough that there is in fact no such absolute standard. Your god has used lying and killing to further its aims and at some point even utilised human sacrifice. The very things it says it is against.

And I asked a follow up question here:

LordReed:


...so how are you are you going to figure out if a god is involved in what is being measured.

LordReed:
The mere fact that your god does not follow it's own standard is demonstration enough that there is in fact no such absolute standard. Your god has used lying and killing to further its aims and at some point even utilised human sacrifice. The very things it says it is against.

What standard? Let's start with an example. Give me one.

And I asked a follow up question here:

LordReed:
...so how are you are you going to figure out if a god is involved in what is being measured.

By using your senses, most importantly, the sense of reason.
https://www.closertotruth.com/series/does-god-intervene-human-affairs#video-1981

https://www.closertotruth.com/series/how-could-god-interact-the-world

Karleb:

This is laughable!

If you wish to know about Odin, Thor, Hela, Loki and the rest then befriend marvel and try to see the Avengers' movie and also watch out for Avengers - End Game.

Karleb:


This is one thing I don't like about you people. You all keep saying this.

But have you ever asked yourself the what if question?

I mean, what if you die and still go to hell anyway because Odin is the one true God?

Why will they even consider that possibility? They are too close minded. Everyone thinks his/her religion is the "one true" religion. SMH.

9inches:

What standard? Let's start with an example. Give me one.


By using your senses, most importantly, the sense of reason.
https://www.closertotruth.com/series/does-god-intervene-human-affairs#video-1981

https://www.closertotruth.com/series/how-could-god-interact-the-world

This is reason in the very page you linked:

Every interview I have seen involving the topic of
God, includes presuppositions that as infinitely inferior creatures we still
have the ability to infer the power and mind-set of the being that we endow
with omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience and perfection. I don’t know if
there is a God, but even if I did, I could not begin to imagine his
possibilities or purposes and intentions. We may never be able to fully
understand such mortal phenomena as; time (beyond basic conceptuality),
gravity, extra dimensions and a host of other facets of our ‘reality’, so to
postulate on the faculties of a supreme being, especially with smug certitude,
is offensive to me.

If a God created; time, the universe, the Earth and
me, and has, and always will exist, then his nature is beyond my scope and that
of every other human’s. That doesn’t and shouldn’t prohibit anyone from
exploring their own theories or sharing them, but championing them as THE truth
is arrogant and potentially dangerous. (As with radical religious individuals
and groups.)

I believe that we would all like to ‘know’ that there
is a God and to know his nature. But I think to even come close; we would have
to be gods ourselves.

I strongly agree that it is preposterous to assume that mere humans can "know" god. I see no reason to believe they could even recognize GOD, when and if GOD ever appears right before them. Could a mere human really tell the difference between a being that could create a galaxy, but still fall far short of creating an entire cosmos consisting of billions of galaxies? I think not.

But I would have to disagree with your comment that "we would all like to ‘know’ that there is a God and to know his nature". I believe that most people only want to "know" god, if and only if god conforms to their preconceived beliefs about god. Gods that do not conform, are more likely to be conceived of as demons and/or superstitions, to be avoided, rather than "known". In this regard, the question becomes not "How could god interact with the world?", but "How does the world (humans) interact with god?" More than a few of the theologians/philosophers interviewed by Kuhn, have stressed the importance, to themselves, of having a god that is worthy of worship. But few are inclined towards worshiping something they regard as a superstition. Consequently, if god exists, then god appears to have interacted with the world, by creating humans, that are inclined to construct a set of beliefs, and then proceed to believe and worship their construction.

9inches:

What standard? Let's start with an example. Give me one.

Leviticus 19:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

1 Kings 22:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Your god said don't lie then proceeds to give orders to a spirit to go and lie. LoL!

LordReed:
This is reason in the very page you linked:

Every interview I have seen involving the topic of
God, includes presuppositions that as infinitely inferior creatures we still
have the ability to infer the power and mind-set of the being that we endow
with omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience and perfection. I don’t know if
there is a God, but even if I did, I could not begin to imagine his
possibilities or purposes and intentions. We may never be able to fully
understand such mortal phenomena as; time (beyond basic conceptuality),
gravity, extra dimensions and a host of other facets of our ‘reality’, so to
postulate on the faculties of a supreme being, especially with smug certitude,
is offensive to me.

If a God created; time, the universe, the Earth and
me, and has, and always will exist, then his nature is beyond my scope and that
of every other human’s. That doesn’t and shouldn’t prohibit anyone from
exploring their own theories or sharing them, but championing them as THE truth
is arrogant and potentially dangerous. (As with radical religious individuals
and groups.)

I believe that we would all like to ‘know’ that there
is a God and to know his nature. But I think to even come close; we would have
to be gods ourselves.

I strongly agree that it is preposterous to assume that mere humans can "know" god. I see no reason to believe they could even recognize GOD, when and if GOD ever appears right before them. Could a mere human really tell the difference between a being that could create a galaxy, but still fall far short of creating an entire cosmos consisting of billions of galaxies? I think not.

But I would have to disagree with your comment that "we would all like to ‘know’ that there is a God and to know his nature". I believe that most people only want to "know" god, if and only if god conforms to their preconceived beliefs about god. Gods that do not conform, are more likely to be conceived of as demons and/or superstitions, to be avoided, rather than "known". In this regard, the question becomes not "How could god interact with the world?", but "How does the world (humans) interact with god?" More than a few of the theologians/philosophers interviewed by Kuhn, have stressed the importance, to themselves, of having a god that is worthy of worship. But few are inclined towards worshiping something they regard as a superstition. Consequently, if god exists, then god appears to have interacted with the world, by creating humans, that are inclined to construct a set of beliefs, and then proceed to believe and worship their construction.

Excellent reasonable argument both!

....Which brings us to the next level, the meat of the matter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcH_5Iecu5s

Karleb:

This is laughable!

If you wish to know about Odin, Thor, Hela, Loki and the rest then befriend marvel and try to see the Avengers' movie and also watch out for Avengers - End Game.

This one weak me! I swear to Mazda!

LordReed:


Leviticus 19:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

1 Kings 22:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Your god said don't lie then proceeds to give orders to a spirit to go and lie. LoL!

Lol. That's a simple one. Why would God who says he is "the Life" but smites people to death!! A God that kills innocent people including babies!!! Right?

9inches:


Lol. That's a simple one. Why would God who says he is "the Life" but smites people to death!! A God that kills innocent people including babies!!! Right?

Ah so special pleading, your god doesn't honour its own words. Such a contradiction. LoL

LordReed:


Ah so special pleading, your god doesn't honour its own words. Such a contradiction. LoL

You notice you're making argument for God?

9inches:
You notice you're making argument for God?

The same way I can make a case for the existence of Harry Potter by quoting sections of the books and pointing out issues.

LordReed:


The same way I can make a case for the existence of Harry Potter by quoting sections of the books and pointing out issues.

I haven't used any book to make my argument for the existence of God.

9inches:
I haven't used any book to make my argument for the existence of God.

Never said you did, however thats what you accusing me of and I show you how ridiculous that argument is.

LordReed:


Never said you did, however thats what you accusing me of and I show you how ridiculous that argument is.

You lied. You introduced book (Harry Potter) first after I said you're making an argument for God.

9inches:
You lied. You introduced book (Harry Potter) first after I said you're making sn argument for God.

Lied how? I quoted your bible and you say I am making an argument for the existence of god and I show you how absurd that is by contrasting it with Harry Potter so where is the lie?

LordReed:
Lied how? I quoted your bible and you say I am making an argument for the existence of god and I show you how absurd that is by contrasting it with Harry Potter so where is the lie?

The lie is that there's nothing I said that's relatable to Harry Potter.

LordReed:
The same way I can make a case for the existence of Harry Potter by quoting sections of the books and pointing out issues.

I did not do that, you alone did. My reply was based off of your conclusion from the bible. I don't really need bible to make an argument for the existence of God. The bible comes handy when trying to know who that God is. The bible is primarily for people faith. It would hardly make total sense to you since you're yet to pass the smelt (reason) test.

9inches:
The lie is that there's nothing I said that's relatable to Harry Potter.


I did not do that, you alone did. My reply was based off of your conclusion from the bible. I don't really need bible to make an argument for the existence of God. The bible comes handy when trying to know who that God is. The bible is primarily for people faith. It would hardly make total sense to you since you're yet to pass the smelt (reason) test.

Gosh! What about this is so hard for you to understand? I never accused you of making an argument for god, you accused me of making an argument for god because I quoted the bible and I said that is a ridiculous statement because if I quote Harry Potter does that mean I am making an argument for the existence of Harry Potter. Its so simple I am wondering how you lost the plot.

LordReed:


Gosh! What about this is so hard for you to understand? I never accused you of making an argument for god, you accused me of making an argument for god because I quoted the bible and I said that is a ridiculous statement because if I quote Harry Potter does that mean I am making an argument for the existence of Harry Potter. Its so simple I am wondering how you lost the plot.

I "accused" you of making argument for God not because you quoted the bible but because you were making a moral argument. You assumed there's value in "honor", essentially that "honor" is GOOD.

9inches:

I "accused" you of making argument for God not because you quoted the bible but because you were making a moral argument. You assumed there's value in "honor", essentially that "honor" is GOOD.

Huh? I make no such argument, your god fails to follow its own prescriptions so fails to demonstrate absolute morality. If morality was absolute then your god will absolutely never act contrary to it.

LordReed:
Huh? I make no such argument, your god fails to follow its own prescriptions so fails to demonstrate absolute morality.

The following are moral arguments.

LordReed:
Your god has used lying and killing to further its aims and at some point even utilised human sacrifice.

LordReed:
Your god said don't lie then proceeds to give orders to a spirit to go and lie.

LordReed:
If morality was absolute then your god will absolutely never act contrary to it.

Exactly my point! If morality isn't absolute then you would have no basis to make moral arguments. Your arguments would be merely your subjective opinions. You'd be wallowing in cognitive dissonance each time you make a moral argument. See how your reality is in contrast with what you verbalize?

If God doesn't exist, right and wrong/good and evil would not exist either.

Danhumprey:
Why will they even consider that possibility? They are too close minded. Everyone thinks his/her religion is the "one true" religion. SMH.

Only a naive person would think such questions haven't been dealt with.

9inches:
Only a naive person would think such questions haven't been dealt with.

Oh? such questions have been dealt with? pray tell, what's the outcome? what was the answer to the question? satisfactory?

9inches:
The following are moral arguments.




Exactly my point! If morality isn't absolute then you would have no basis to make moral arguments. Your arguments would be merely your subjective opinions. You'd be wallowing in cognitive dissonance each time you make a moral argument. See how your reality is in contrast with what you verbalize?

If God doesn't exist, right and wrong/good and evil would not exist either.

LoL! Stop trying to twist my words to fit your narrative. Morality as essentially deriving from god is a presupposition which you fail to prove simply because you can't show any objective proof of how you know this god's characteristics.

I made it clear I was tackling the idea that there is anything called absolute morality, a standard that even your god fails to adhere to then you twist my words to try to fit your own arguments. Don't be disingenuous, a real god wouldn't need such tactics to be shown to be real.

Danhumprey:
Oh? such questions have been dealt with? pray tell, what's the outcome? what was the answer to the question? satisfactory?

Yes, the Church has been answering questions for centuries now. There's no single question you could ask that hasn't been covered. Try it! What question(s) do you have?

Satisfactory? You have free will and reason, so your choice.

LordReed:
LoL! Stop trying to twist my words to fit your narrative. Morality as essentially deriving from god is a presupposition which you fail to prove simply because you can't show any objective proof of how you know this god's characteristics.

I made it clear I was tackling the idea that there is anything called absolute morality, a standard that even your god fails to adhere to then you twist my words to try to fit your own arguments. Don't be disingenuous, a real god wouldn't need such tactics to be shown to be real.

I didn't TWIST your words, I USED them to make my point. You were making a moral argument, which means you believe some things are good while some are wrong. And my argument is, unless you don't believe hypocrisy (by God) is wrong, you are proving the existence of a moral absolute. You deny absolute morality while you act like it exists. That is proof right there.

Even our argument here points to the fact that absolute morality truth exists. If it's all relative, human beings wouldn't have to argue because your opinion becomes your truth and my opinion would become my truth. Truth would not exist at all.... but we know from reality that objective truth exists.

Talk about characteristics, the God I know is not a "God of truth", he is Truth itself; he's not a "God of love", he's Love itself; he's not a "God of goodness", he's Good itself; he's not a "God of justice", he's Justice itself. His character is the absolute/ultimate level of these attributes that you and I desire. That's the argument from desire.

9inches:
I didn't TWIST your words, I USED them to make my point. You were making a moral argument, which means you believe some things are good while some are wrong. And my argument is, unless you don't believe hypocrisy (by God) is wrong, you are proving the existence of a moral absolute. You deny absolute morality while you act like it exists. That is proof right there.

Even our argument here points to the fact that absolute morality truth exists. If it's all relative, human beings wouldn't have to argue because your opinion becomes your truth and my opinion would become my truth. Truth would not exist at all.... but we know from reality that objective truth exists.

Talk about characteristics, the God I know is not a "God of truth", he is Truth itself; he's not a "God of love", he's Love itself; he's not a "God of goodness", he's Good itself; he's not a "God of justice", he's Justice itself. His character is the absolute/ultimate level of these attributes that you and I desire. That's the argument from desire.

Before we go on define Absolute Morality.

So if I desire the ultimate candy that means there's an ultimate candy god?