We are Tribals First and Foremost. We carry the Blood of our Forefathers. We cannot kill each other. We are Pagans. We are worshippers of Nature, the natural elements are our Gods.


If we want Peace, we must return to the Traditional Religion of our ancestors. Our ancestors will never forgive us if we dont act now. Our elders have all the remaining knowledge of the past.

We must speak to them and ressurect our ancestral faith in the natural Spiritual Forces.


We must unite in diversity.

Every tribe must resurrect its Pagan Religion.

This is our last chance before our elders die out .

It is an individual responsibility.

Please consider.


I PAGAN9JA stand with you be you Hausa , Igbo, Yoruba, Marghi, Fulani, Ijaw, Jukun, Tiv, Itsekiri, Edo, Bura, Cibak, Urhobo, etc. if you show your willingness to achieve peace.


This is our last stand.

How far back do you propose we go Pagan? Far back enough and my forefathers worship involved human sacrifice.

Your call is no different to a Christian calling for a return to the days of Moses by the way, in total disregard to any progress since then.

budaatum:
How far back do you propose we go Pagan? Far back enough and my forefathers worship involved human sacrifice?

Your call is no different to a Christian calling for a return to the days of Moses by the way, in total disregard to any progress since then.

Human sacrifice of whom? Did any tribe sacrifice their own people or was it their captured enemies and criminals that were sacrificed?

Paganism is not based on books. It evolves with time keeping its core concepts intact.

Who are our enemies today? All these terrorists and criminals let them be sacrificed at the altar. If innocent animals can be sacrificed then violent humans must not be immune to sacrifice.


Hindusim, Shintoism CTR and all other numerous existing Pagan faiths, you think they never sacrificed humans? They did but they evolved with changing times. They are not book-based faiths. Unfortunately the "religion of the book" refuse to adapt to the 21st centuries. They are rigid , not abstract. This is why they are the source of all religious conflict.


The Pagan is tolerant to all faiths but if his existence is threatened then he is the devil himself.

PAGAN9JA:



Human sacrifice of whom? Did any tribe sacrifice their own people or was it their captured enemies and criminals that were sacrificed?

Paganism is not based on books. It evolves with time keeping its core concepts intact.

Who are our enemies today? All these terrorists and criminals let them be sacrificed at the altar. If innocent animals can be sacrificed then violent humans must not be immune to sacrifice.


Hindusim, Shintoism CTR and all other numerous existing Pagan faiths, you think they never sacrificed humans? They did but they evolved with changing times. They are not book-based faiths. Unfortunately the "religion of the book" refuse to adapt to the 21st centuries. They are rigid , not abstract. This is why they are the source of all religious conflict.

The Pagan is tolerant to all faiths but if his existence is threatened then he is the devil himself.

Our captured enemies were sometimes our neighbours or the village next door! I agree it has evolved though. Just like all religions have. I in fact think it is that evolved form that we practise today, albeit with some foreign spices to give it flavour. Evidence suggests those book religions evolve too. Not many impose ancient penalties from their books anymore for instance. I just don't think our ancestors religion evolved fast enough to survive is all. And I doubt we could or want to go backwards.

I'm not for any forms of Sharia myself. Jail is good enough for criminals, and we know sacrifices do not get to the gods.

Admit it, as much as the claim may be about selling "black criminals and undesirable tribes" away into slavery, while chasing some post-modern African dead god and tradition, current Africans had no choice in the matter. The choice was and still remains "Help them get slaves or become their slaves". Don't act like it's more than that.

budaatum:

I just don't think our ancestors religion evolved fast enough to survive is all. And I doubt we could or want to go backwards.

Whose fault is that?


The Hindus underwent severe reformations in the colonial times and outlawed many redundant practices multiple times throughout their history albeit keeping their core principles intact?

Not just that, if you follow their theology closely, they also added a lot to the vast troves of spiritual, medicinal, etc. , knowledge built upon the traditional foundations over the ages.


If we couldn't evolve and we are constantly waiting for some foreign messiah to give us knowledge and come and save us, then that itself speaks of our failure to grow.

And moreover if we lose our remaining traditional foundations we will never be able to get back onto our feet again. As an independent nation ofcourse.

About sacrifice,it does work but not in the way you think. Ive explained the concept of sacrifice multiple times before. Please go through it.

These are classified as occult practices.

AAinEqGuinea:
Admit it, as much as the claim may be about selling "black criminals and undesirable tribes" away into slavery, while chasing some post-modern African dead god and tradition, current Africans had no choice in the matter. The choice was and still remains "Help them get slaves or become their slaves". Don't act like it's more than that.

unfortunately the colonized mind only sees the negative in his own ancestors tradition and spirituality.

This is why we are losing or have lost most of our ancient knowledge related to medicine, botany, healing, spirituality, etc.

PAGAN9JA:


Whose fault is that?


The Hindus underwent severe reformations in the colonial times and outlawed many redundant practices multiple times throughout their history albeit keeping their core principles intact?

Not just that, if you follow their theology closely, they also added a lot to the vast troves of spiritual, medicinal, etc. , knowledge built upon the traditional foundations over the ages.


If we couldn't evolve and we are constantly waiting for some foreign messiah to give us knowledge and come and save us, then that itself speaks of our failure to grow.

And moreover if we lose our remaining traditional foundations we will never be able to get back onto our feet again. As an independent nation ofcourse.

Our inability to evolve was what allowed "some foreign messiah to give us knowledge and come and save us", and it does "itself speak of our failure to grow". If we had grown, we would not have required foreign salvation!

Nonetheless, we are currently "adding a lot to the vast troves of spiritual, medicinal, etc. , knowledge built upon the traditional foundations". Most do after all treat the foreign gods as they treated the traditional gods when you look deeply into it. As to losing the "remaining traditional foundations", the religious aspect to be specific, not many are prepared to go as far back to placing their faith in gods of iron and thunder after we've evolved to the Spirit of God being within.

PAGAN9JA:


unfortunately the colonized mind only sees the negative in his own ancestors tradition and spirituality.

African gods have long been removed, whether you see it or not. With its great food and customs, Tradition, sadly, won't save Africa. my god and your god would have saved Naija by now if it could. The Muslim rules over what's left of so-called "African tradition", and if they don't, China or India rules over Africa... and i could go on. If, as an African American, im supposed to see greater tribes that sold inferiors into slavery but later turned Africa into a laughing state as superiors, we know Africans had no other choice but abet slavery or be sold themselves as they are now in the middle east, EU, America, etc. Again Tradition, "help them get slaves or become slaves" which many Africans have been by modern religion or brain-drained. In fact, if African tradition had a choice in any global African affairs, including slavery and inferior/superior "tribe", then Biafra would be free. But of course the superior and boastful voice of west African tribes of now, when given guns by their colonizers, much like during slavery will only harm themselves first and foremost like the police and corruption-state currently seen in Nigeria. Biafra should be allowed freedom from a white-crafted colony called Nigeria but instead Tradition killed millions of other Africans to maintain their white protectorate. So smart yet so dumb; maintaining the SUPERIOR tradition while living-daft sadly.

Stop chasing dead Ghosts. It won't help you stand out. We're in this together.

PAGAN9JA:


unfortunately the colonized mind only sees the negative in his own ancestors tradition and spirituality.

This is really pathetic. You will see Nigerians argue and defend foreign god that the colonial masters sold to our fore fathers. Many know so much about the jewish ancient tradition but know few things about our tradition. Everything is now tagged idolatry, even when you try to learn or visit ancient monument of our ancestors, there is this attitude people give you. One pastor recently mocked sango for being powerless. You do not believe sango because the story sounds ridiculous to you, but you believe every ridiculous stories the jews wrote down in their book.

AAinEqGuinea:


African gods have long been removed, whether you see it or not. With its great food and customs, Tradition, sadly, won't save Africa. my god and your god would have saved Naija by now if it could. The Muslim rules over what's left of so-called "African tradition", and if they don't, China or India rules over Africa... and i could go on. If, as an African American, im supposed to see greater tribes that sold inferiors into slavery but later turned Africa into a laughing state as superiors, we know Africans had no other choice but abet slavery or be sold themselves as they are now in the middle east, EU, America, etc. Again Tradition, "help them get slaves or become slaves" which many Africans have been by modern religion or brain-drained. In fact, if African tradition had a choice in any global African affairs, including slavery and inferior/superior "tribe", then Biafra would be free. But of course the superior and boastful voice of west African tribes of now, when given guns by their colonizers, much like during slavery will only harm themselves first and foremost like the police and corruption-state currently seen in Nigeria. Biafra should be allowed freedom from a white-crafted colony called Nigeria but instead Tradition killed millions of other Africans to maintain their white protectorate. So smart yet so dumb; maintaining the SUPERIOR tradition while living-daft sadly.

Stop chasing dead Ghosts. It won't help you stand out. We're in this together.

What a load of nonsense. I lost you halfway through .

budaatum:

Our inability to evolve was what allowed "some foreign messiah to give us knowledge and come and save us", and it does "itself speak of our failure to grow". If we had grown, we would not have required foreign salvation!

Nonetheless, we are currently "adding a lot to the vast troves of spiritual, medicinal, etc. , knowledge built upon the traditional foundations". Most do after all treat the foreign gods as they treated the traditional gods when you look deeply into it. As to losing the "remaining traditional foundations", the religious aspect to be specific, not many are prepared to go as far back to placing their faith in gods of iron and thunder after we've evolved to the Spirit of God being within.

Yes we are certainly adding some great knowledge via these foreign middle eastern faiths.

Like destroying our culture, extorting money from the poor as tithe to fill coffers of greedy pastors and the vatican, killing and destroying in the name of religion, etc.

Not to mention, speaking in tongues, throwing all responsibility on god, acting mad, etc.

PAGAN9JA:


What a load of nonsense. I lost you halfway through .

isn't all lost at this point? Lets do better my friend, or at least aspire

PAGAN9JA:


Yes we are certainly adding some great knowledge via these foreign middle eastern faiths.

Like destroying our culture, extorting money from the poor as tithe to fill coffers of greedy pastors and the vatican, killing and destroying in the name of religion, etc.

Not to mention, speaking in tongues, throwing all responsibility on god, acting mad, etc.

Beats twin killings, human trading and "killing and destroying in the name of religion" which we did, and "speaking in tongues, throwing all responsibility on god, acting mad", which we also did, all before foreign messiahs arrived.

I think your error might be that you blame religion instead of the humans who use religion badly. No religion says anyone should do any of the above, at least not any god.

TVSA:
This is really pathetic. You will see Nigerians argue and defend foreign god that the colonial masters sold to our fore fathers. Many know so much about the jewish ancient tradition but know few things about our tradition. Everything is now tagged idolatry, even when you try to learn or visit ancient monument of our ancestors, there is this attitude people give you. One pastor recently mocked sango for being powerless. You do not believe sango because the story sounds ridiculous to you, but you believe every ridiculous stories the jews wrote down in their book.

Who's fault is it that "Nigerians argue and defend foreign god that the colonial masters sold to our fore fathers"? Do many have the opportunity to learn about Sango? Have you ever heard of Sango Secondary School? Is it not true that most parents teach their children about foreign gods? Some people should perhaps go tell their parents how stupid they might be being! But before you do, consider wondering why you aren't teaching that same Sango to your children or sending it to Sango Secondary School.

When I'm home, I join in with no regard for those who oppose. I'm in the mosque, in the church, we worship Owala, Sango, Ogun, and my people would collect money from me for Oro, and all that when I was an atheist. I so loved telling people that if any god is against my so doing that god should send me a memo. If you listen to people the blame is yours.

budaatum:

Beats twin killings, human trading and "killing and destroying in the name of religion" which we did, and "speaking in tongues, throwing all responsibility on god, acting mad", which we also did, all before foreign messiahs arrived.

I think your error might be that you blame religion instead of the humans who use religion badly. No religion says anyone should do any of the above, at least not any god.

Did your ancestors kill twins ? Because my ancestors certainly did not.

And which human race never traded slaves? From your white masters to every other part of the world. Slave trade was practiced everywhere.

But was it religious ordained? No.

Stop finding excuses for your own failures. Pathetic.

PAGAN9JA:


Did your ancestors kill twins ? Because my ancestors certainly did not.

And which human race never traded slaves? From your white masters to every other part of the world. Slave trade was practiced everywhere.

But was it religious ordained? No.

Stop finding excuses for your own failures. Pathetic.

You mentioned Sango but perhaps your Sango is not the Yoruba Sango or I just have different stories regarding him. If only we had evolved writing things down. That is what would gave kept our culture alive. Even now our nation intentionally decides not to teach history, which is what we would be discussing if we were rational by the way, instead of insulting one another over the detail!

Ibeji is a Yoruba Orisha represented on earth by twins. It is believed that they are magical and are protected by Sango but if one dies, curses would befall the family. So in order to avoid the curses in periods when most children died in infancy, some murdered both at birth. It was rampant at a time so Ifa elders consulted Sango himself long before the "arrival of foreign messiahs". Sango told them ibeji is a sacred spirit. He required that the mother of twins dance to the spirit of Ibeji every five days and thus was twin killing abolished amongst the Yoruba (or started to be abolished since such things do not stop immediately).

I am budaatum, Omo Basorun of the Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun. My Kehinde just left. We had Chinese and I made her pizza to take with her. She came for ma's 80 last Saturday with her hubby and her daughter. Taiwo too lives.

The single failure of our traditions and what made it die is our own failure to evolve them and pass them down since we never generation proofed it by writing it in books. I wonder if its because we had something to hide so replaced it with "some foreign messiah" because it was superior?

I do not believe my forebears would hold on to the inferior and ignore the superior. Awa ma n'jawo ninu apon tio yo lo gbe omi ila ka ina, we stop the old and try something new. And I can assure you Yorubas at least, have not abandoned our culture and traditions despite abandoning Sango. Our culture and traditions are way beyond religion which is why we worship foreign messiahs pretty much the way we worshipped our gods - according to our own cultures and traditions, albeit, evolved, and despite no new wines in old bottles.

Refs .
"The Trouble with Twins: Image and Ritual of the Yoruba ère ìbejì"

This Nigerian tribe used to kill twins believed to be evil, a ‘god’ stopped the practice

PAGAN9JA:


unfortunately the colonized mind only sees the negative in his own ancestors tradition and spirituality.

This is why we are losing or have lost most of our ancient knowledge related to medicine, botany, healing, spirituality, etc.

GREAT POINT Pagan. I LOVE THIS THREAD.

Firstly know that a call to African tradition is chasing DARK history, sadly but true. It has always been this way.