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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / TV/Movies / Satellite TV Technology / Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA (2264851 Views)
UPS Back-up, Also A Complement To FTA / FTA Frequency / Cctv Installation A Complement To Fta And Solar Energy (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by ojeysky(m): 2:12pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
NoMoreTrolling: Just curious, is there a reason why you are using 50ah for those batteries as they are indicate as 100ah on amazon? Edit: I should have read further down before posting this...you answered the question already. Unfortunately am unable to delete the post 1 Like
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by ojeysky(m): 2:14pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
hisenjos: That's a fantastic stab you have there....i use the desktop version and i found it to be quite a good product. |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by ojeysky(m): 2:25pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
earthrealm: While i am not a guru on this topic but one who hopes to lay hands on 2 100AH BB, i think the 100% DOD of BB vs 50% DOD for quanta is a big one. Apart from that, the weight of both of them and the space them consume cannot be under estimated. The idea of having many point of failure in quanta is also there[1] compare to BB which will be fewer. Regards 1. Imagine one of the quanta batteries goes bad |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Dam5reey(m): 3:11pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
ojeysky: Replace all 8, If you have the money, BB is a better choice, The OP stated his challenges with regular lead acid, which trigger his decision, we await more feedback from him, since he is using it already. |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by dapsyra(m): 7:25pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
Niyi, thank you for your usual in-depth analysis. But the matter is not as linear as put. You have to also factor in the round trip efficiency of both chemistries. For every 100AH you take out of lead acid battery you need 130AH to replenish (85% charge and discharge efficiency). Lithium on the contrary has a round trip efficiency of 99.9999% at discharge rates lower than 1C. You take out 100AH, you put back 100AH nothing more. This implies that you will require 30% more PVs, larger CC and bigger cables to charge the same battery if using Pb chemistry instead of Lithium. I have used my LTO batteries for about 15 months without any loss of capacity. Zero degradation. The same mileage goes for the clients we installed them for. I have tons of raw data (5 minutes average sample rate) over the last 15 month which I am willing to share with anyone interested in analysing them. The BattleBorn LifePo4 are unnecessarily expensive for that chemistry. If you are ready to do a little DIY, you can buy the same capacity at about half the BattleBorn price. The most affordable Lithium battery money can buy is the used EV battery. It cost about the same price as the Pb equivalent and will outlast it by a factor of 2 (at least) if handled right. NiyiOmoIyunade: 10 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mank1234(m): 9:41pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
earthrealm: The key words are properly sized and use in recommended environmental condition. There are pros and cons for both: By the time you consider time value of money, lithium may be at exactly the same prorated total amount as the lead acid if not higher. However, you have not considered savings achievable in charging efficiency. Lithium is more efficient in absorbing charge while lead acid waste close to 20% of energy during charging and discharging. Lithium can handle faster charging rate: so it's possible to get a full charge in 2hrs with public power supply or an oversized solar array (especially useful during rainy season when u don't have extended period of sunshine). This advantage enables you to need less battery capacity. Lithium is more prone to damage from adverse conditions (heat, imbalance due to failure of circuitry etc) than lead acid battery. Lithium is expected to be placed in a well air-conditioned environment. Which inadvertently will add to the initial cost and running cost. For small household use lead acid is better; for clients with adequate resources to throw around, lithium is more efficient and better in the long run provided it is we'll sized and runned in a conducive environment. 1 Like |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by dapsyra(m): 10:04pm On Apr 23, 2019 |
Lithium batteries do not require an air-conditioned environment especially for Solar Storage. Most Lithium Chemistries can be operated at temperatures between 0-45 deg Celsius without any side effect. They perform better than Pb batteries at high temperatures. They don't require temperature compensation for charging unlike Pb that must be temp compensated when charging at above 25 deg. Celsius. In most EVs, the batteries are water cooled because they get very hot (>70 deg. Celsius) at high discharge rates. Under high acceleration the EV battery can see up to 5C discharge rate. In home Solar storage application, the battery might never go beyond 1C charge/discharge rate. mank1234: 8 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 10:01am On Apr 24, 2019 |
Good morning all good and solid arguments. I had earlier posted this article and based on thr exchanges above it is still relevant. https://www.cleanenergyreviews.info/blog/2015/11/19/complete-battery-storage-comparison-and-review |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by NoMoreTrolling: 10:08am On Apr 24, 2019 |
earthrealm: I made a mistake with the cycle count in my earlier post, my apologies. If one cycle is using the entire battery capacity, then at 50% DOD, you should make use of the entire 200ah of the 2 quanta batteries. So your calculation below is correct: 200AH X 500 CYCLES = 100,000AH over its lifecycle cost 240k I was of the impression before that a cycle would be from 100% state of charge to about 50% state of charge, but after breezing through cycle definitions on the web, I see that a cycle is using the entire battery capacity, albeit not all at once. Keep in mind however that I also did my estimation for 100% DOD for cycle life, i.e 3,000 cycles @ 100% DOD. At 50% DOD, the cycle life for lifepo4 changes dramatically. According to the specs for lifepo4, please refer to graphs below, if you keep a 50% DOD, your cycle life can go up to about 10,000 cycles. I will use 6,000 cycles in my calculation to be conservative Okay so new calculation 2 12V Quanta 200ah vs 2 BB 12v 100ah Discharged to 50% DOD Quanta: Usable amphour - 200ah x 500 cycles = 100,000 ah Battleborn Useable amphour - 100ah x 6,000 cycles = 600,000ah Cost of Quanta: N234K Cost of Battleborn: N800K So it would take about 6 PAIRS of quanta batteries, 12 quantas, to make up for the 2 Battleborn batteries if discharged to 50% DOD with a conservative 6,000 cycles for lifepo4. 1 Like
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by NoMoreTrolling: 11:36am On Apr 24, 2019 |
NiyiOmoIyunade: hmmm, you make some very good points. First off though you are overestimating quanta cycle life at 50% DOD. I have posted a graph from quanta datasheet, stating that you get 500 cycles at 50% DOD. If you must power that 500 watt load for 20 hours straight, then we must take 8 battleborns to 100% DOD: 8 12v 200ah quanta batteries usable amphour - 400ah x 500 cycles = 200,000ah @ 50% DOD 8 12 100ah BB usable amphour - 200ah x 3000 cycles = 600,000ah @ 100% DOD Cost of 8 quantas N1,000,000 Cost of 8 Battleborns N3,000,000 The ratios don't look that bad, however, at the end of the battleborns 3,000 cycles, you'd still have over 70% capacity remaining According to Battleborn website: Approximately 75-80% of the battery capacity will remain after 3000 cycles in applications recharging at 0.5C or lower It's close but not really close due to the remaining capacity in the batteries. Your concern about lithium failing is correct, hence why I chose lifepo4, a very stable lithium chemistry. Plus, things go wrong when you don't have an internal BMS. I recon that the BB batteries would be less prone to failure as they are "smart" batteries, compared to typical lead acid batteries that just contain mechanical and chemical parts, no electronics in them to prevent failure from overdischarging and overcharging. Most people that record failure do so with lithium batteries installed without a BMS. I like your way of looking at it from a load perspective and not just a DOD/cycle life perspective. The cool thing I really like about this battery is that fact that you don't have to charge it to full each time. Mine have been sitting at 60% S.O.C for days now, without a care in the world.
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by MamaSprinble: 12:01pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Awesome review. To actually acquire the best handheld, we did a review on it. You can check it out https://www.fontation.com/reviews/best-handheld-vhf-radio-for-kayak/ NoMoreTrolling: |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by earthrealm(m): 2:02pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Lolz.. @nomoretrolling you yaff win ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Before you misunderstand me... I agree with you that Lipo4 is superb and is the future..perhaps cost is the major reason why i am very very reluctant to follow the train. Plunking down 1m for 8units of quanta is quite draining, so the idea of putting down over 3m naira for Lipo4 batt bank is mission impossible for me...based on my purse ![]() Georged1's lead acid bank is clocking 7yrs...lead acid o..not Lipo4, so why use a sledge hammer to kill a fly. Where a bugatti or gwagon can go..a well maintained hilux or lx470 can also get there 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Namzy(m): 2:59pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
bigrovar:The victron app version 1.7 you use will ask for update from v1.16 to 1.17. Did you upgrade yours? I am afrasi to upgrade hence I looked for victron connect v1.4 and that's what I have been managing. I know you said the killer firmware is version 1.19 so please tell me if you upgraded to v1.17 to use your victron connect app v1.7 |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Chuckdee(m): 3:05pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
earthrealm: Hmmmmm, Not so sure about the bolded o! 2 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Runx: 9:00pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Namzy: Let me guide you if you may, you need not be afraid to update. Go here: https://downloadapk.net/down_VictronConnect.html. Download no:17, 9, 7, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 which is the latest version. Now follow this sequence: You can update without a data connection, so SWITCH OFF your data connection of your phone. If you have an Android phone, go to settings, apps, find your Victronconnect app, then Data usage, background data - SWITCH THIS OFF. ( don't allow the app to run in the background. Don't jump to v5.4 to update, do incremental updates starting from no: 17. Connect your phone to your device and when it ask for update do so with your data connection off. Work your update up until you reach v.5.4. Very important: don't mess with the data settings unless your battery voltage and battery type. (I cannot emphasis this enough). I am using Fangpusun 100/30 with v.1.39 and Fangpusun 702 BMV v.3.10 with no hassle. Good luck. 2 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Namzy(m): 9:08pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Runx:I know the update file is embedded into the victronconnect app and doesn't need data to upgrade, but what about the killer firmware version 1.19? People complains it kills their fangpusun after a while. How long have you been using this your firmware |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Runx: 9:20pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Namzy: ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Namzy(m): 10:34pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Runx:Turn it back on you mean? Meanwhile that's a great find. Would like if you still have the link about the pc firmware carrying the switch from Amazon us to send it here |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by NiyiOmoIyunade(m): 11:08pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
I agree with these broad conclusions but 500 cycles for Quanta would imply end users get less than 2 years life at 50% DoD per day. To throw in some real life into all these spec sheets; I have actual field data from at least 100 12v 200Ah batteries I have installed - a good number of them have already passed the 2 year mark and still going strong - this with users who don't even know what DoD means or respect DoD. I can only conclude that the Quanta manufacturer estimates are overly conservative or the battery capacity is understated. Oga Dapsyra gave some hard field data for his LTO batteries over a 15month period - I look to similar field data for the BattleBorns instead of just projected lab results. I do not think it is practical to use a 100% DoD assumption for any battery bank with more than one battery connected in series except the battery capacity was understated. I would really love a LTO or similar bank to play with but the entry cost is rather steep - sad to say I 'd rather replace my Quanta 3 times over a 10 year period than throw 10 million naira into a Lithium battery bank and hope for a 10 year lifespan without field evidence to back me up. Nearly 80% of the Lithium reviews I come across tell me people are still trying to gain mastery of this Lithium tech. NoMoreTrolling: 3 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Runx: 11:09pm On Apr 24, 2019 |
Namzy: Yes turn it back on. The link for the PC firmware was pulled down to protect Fangpusun users and stop messing with settings. If you want the Windows version of victronconnect, go-to victron site, the latest version 5.4 with firmware 1.39 is there. You will also need to download additional files for ve to USB cable to connect with your Windows version. |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Wazari: 7:19am On Apr 25, 2019 |
NoMoretrolling, Using your own analysis, 800k will get you almost 5 pairs of the quanta batteries over a ten year period if you grow the capital by at least 10% annually assuming zero inflation (it is not the most difficult thing to grow by 10% above nominal inflation). Also the life cycle chart you posted shows 600 - 700 cycles at 50% DOD for the quanta. So 5 sets of the quanta to the 1 set of BB is more accurate statement. Therefore a lithium battery would need to last over 10 years (80% original capacity) before it shows a cost advantage over lead acid and this period is not usually covered by warranty. In Nigeria, unless you are willing to go the DIY route (which increases the probability of failure), the cost-benefit of lithium over lead acid is not as clear cut as you make it appear. NoMoreTrolling: 4 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Valto(m): 8:34am On Apr 25, 2019 |
lithium vs lead acid debate ![]() am loving the analysis ![]() |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by dgr8truth(m): 6:18pm On Apr 25, 2019 |
hotdealz: I'm interested in the batteries. Chat me up 08060313355 |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by GeorgeD1(m): 6:35am On Apr 26, 2019 |
NiyiOmoIyunade: well done niyi. I couldn't have said it better. for a small battery bank of less than 100ah one could take the risk of going lithium but for peeps like us having an oversized bank, plunking down such a humongous amount of dough on a technology whose overriding appeal is a promised future performance not yet proven in real world applications, is a gamble taken too far. 5 Likes |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 8:51am On Apr 26, 2019 |
We still need to give lithium time, d positive Stat sheets are nearly almost theoretical, we need more practical stats, with George d we nw knw with proper sizing lead acid can do 5yrs, 6yrs plus. Although dapsyra already gave us positive review abt LTO... As for me i ll jst observe from dt corner( my pple wey sabi as e go, dt place go mk gud 2nite o ![]() |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Oshomo12(m): 12:08pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
GeorgeD1: My people, lithium has prove, we just need to look inward (though the price is killing o!). I just change my laptop battery(lithium ion) after 5yrs of draining it till shutdown. My Phones too (Iphone 4s) both started misbehaving (battery wise, after 6.5 years of use (till phones go dead). So the proves are there, but the price na die o for now. |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by pranil(m): 12:19pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Wazari: In my opinion, Lithium makes a cost effective scenario if you have fairly stable Nepa ( atleast 10-12 hours a day) and/or a diesel generator with your solar . In such a scenario you can severally undersize the lithium ( using ESS) but still cycle the lithium to maximize the solar use unlike pure offgrid or standby applications The lithium charges by a factor of 3-4 times faster allowing you to reduce use of gen or running your solar on PEAK .. e.g in my case a 10 KWH battery can charge at 7 KWp ( 140 Amps DC) from my solar but to utilize 140 amps charge rate I will need 1400 AH in Trojan ( C10) i.e. 7 x 4x 120,000 NGN= 3.3 million - which is the same cost of 200 AH Lithium What the lithium brings for me is the peace of mind that I do not have to worry about equalizing, water topping , if the battries are discharged or fully charged etc. ( i have on few occasions run my battery down to 2 % SOC and charged in the morning after the sun has comeup without any adverse effects ![]() p.s. In my own case I have 10 KWp solar , 20 KVA GEN and 15 KVA + 6 KVA ( 3 phase) inverter all supported by a small 10 KWP/ 10 KWH BYD Imagine how much space a 28 battery trojan setup will take and yes the battries are ensured a good ventilation by using exhuast fan No airconditioning is needed . Although I am thinking of adding 5000 BTU solar operated unit to keep the inverters cool if I can find the correct unit . 1 Like |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by OgogoroFreak(m): 3:07pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Oshomo12:you used a phone/laptop for 6.5 years? ![]() |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Oshomo12(m): 4:25pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
OgogoroFreak: Yes I did, the phones are still on (only that they are now desktops!). The laptop still working well (with a new battery of course), it all depend on how much you are willing to pay for stuff. I bought the laptop then for around 150k, when laptops were being sold for 70-95 max. |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by duwdu: 8:20pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
The Raspberry Pi 3 Model B is an incredible, nifty machine and is truly affordable. These will have to partially explain why many arrays of developers favour it so much as a platform of choice for apps and IoT stuff, majorly of the open-source types. In this case, attached are four screen shots of the SolarSnoop/PCM60X Monitor app on the Pi, by a developer and in use with my charge controller. It's freely available on GitHub. It uses a browser interface and is thus available to be interacted with within the range of a WiFi network, or from anywhere on the Internet, on a browser. I set up this my own particular install of the PCM60X Monitor to auto-refresh every minute, which interval is good enough for me. Hope some of us who are not already using equivalent or better solutions to monitor/visualize their RE set ups, will be encouraged to find similar ones for own use. ........ P34c3 ..... ...
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 5:06am On Apr 27, 2019 |
duwdu: welcome to the club bro. The system I setup some times in july last year is still running and has been logging away without issues. Even when I am out of the country, I can still always take a peep and see what is happening. Using the solar equipment with open communication port and documentations (Looking at Victron and to some extent some tracer and epsolar devices) is also very important if you are considering going this route. |
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 9:38am On Apr 27, 2019 |
NEW UPDATE! Canadian Solar KuMax 375w mono solar panel. Dimensions: 2000 X 992 X 35 mm (78.7 X 39.1 X 1.38 in) Specification Data: Nominal Max. Power (Pmax) 375W Opt. Operating Voltage (Vmp) 39.8V Opt. Operating Current (Imp) 9.43A Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) 47.6V Short Circuit Current (Isc) 9.93A Module Efficiency 18.90% Operating Temperature -40 degree Celsius to +85 degree Celsius Max. System Voltage 1500V (IEC/UL) or 1000V (IEC/UL) Max. Series Fuse Rating 30A Power Tolerance 0 ~ + 5 W DISCOUNTED PRICE: N66,000 Contact, Smartcellglobal services, 081-350-319-51 WHATSAPP::: https:///2348170385620 |
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