Funaki:
You and your absolute morality bullsh!t. By the way, You seems to think only your God exist in the "God universe" and nobody can do right without your God standard. While your God is the example of evil personified.

why is it that Jesus and Paul didn't follow your argument. Jesus and Paul seems to portray God as a good guy whow doesn't do evil. Jesus started his ministry by teaching his guys in Matthew 5 to be like their heavenly God who doesn't pay evil for evil, who doesn't take revenge, who blesses both good and bad people (I begin to wonder if Jesus read any of the books of Moses ). Or when Paul preached to gentiles in Acts 14 and 17 and started talking of God that allowed men to do whatever they liked in the past (really, which God? the one that destroyed Sodom? ).

The new testament guys had more sense. They knew the God character in the old testament was a fvcktard. They knew no God would be that savage and insane. That's why they toned down on the God aggression in their own stories.

God of the Old Testament was a bad idea, a psycho. The mad king in Game of thrones is learning from him.

TVSA:
It's like you pull this your crap 'its your opinion and not fact' when you don't know what to say again in an argument. I bet you'll tell me it's my opinion if I say cos0 = 1. Guy, it's not my opinion that your God didn't see anything bad with slavery, so your argument that God is the standard of morality is a lie. Your God's first law was for the people to have only one religion and god. How does that not violate the fundamental human right? o that's my opinion too. GOD discriminated against people of other tribes and see them as inferiors but its still my opinion, lol. Go and read your bible and stop throwing cliche at people.

Funaki:


Your philosophy is wack. You could've avoided all these balderdash by saying The old prophets were either lying or they didn't know what they were saying. When you started asking if killing children was evil or not, it makes you sound like a criminally insane individual. If Jesus or Paul had heard you say that, I'm sure they'll have rebuked you and called you the devil. Jesus said be perfect as your heavenly father in heaven, Paul said imitate God as dear children. Could these guys be talking about the same God Moses or Samuel described? Jesus literally used little children as an example of people going to heaven.

Matthew 18:10 KJV
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Does it make sense to you that the same God Jesus talked about was the same guy that ordered the killings of children in the old testament? Can't you see the conflict? If you are to follow the instructions of Jesus and Paul concerning imitating God, you should be going around killing people of other religion and stoning homosexual to death. It'll never make sense for you to defend the God of the old testament.
When John and James wanted Jesus to call down fire on people as Elijah did in Luke 9, Jesus literally rebuked them and called the act evil. He didn't try to defend the act of Elijah with any bullsh!t philosophy.

I repeat, your best bet is to say the prophets were lying, forget your philosophy.

9inches:


It is for sure your opinion that God didn't see anything bad with slavery.

9inches:


The first commandment says you shall have no other God, not "one religion and god." Deuteronomy 5:6-7

9inches:
Is your right being violated right now? Are you forcibly abiding by these commandments right now?

9inches:
Matthew 10:34-39 "Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

Matthew 5:17-20, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Uh oh.. seems like even Jesus too wasn't all nice and cuddly as you're trying to portray. Now, this will make you reevaluate Jesus and Paul

Welcome to bible cherry picking!

TVSA:


which biblical standard proscribed slavery? even the nice new testament didn't say people should stop slavery. Jesus and Paul with all their sweet words did not for once admonished their followers to abolish slavery. Which book of the bible is that part in red? or you're just inferring .

And you use fundamental human rights and God in the same sentence? that's disgusting . Your God is one of the major reasons people came up with fundamental human rights. Read your bible, many of God's commandments are against fundamental human rights.

Funaki:


I thought only your philosophy is wack, your text comprehension is worse. Are you feigning ignorance or you naturally reason like this?

are those bible passages supposed to equate sweet loving Jesus with the blood loving despot described by Moses or Elijah?

I can totally see where Jesus ordered his disciples to kill and burn down the people that opposed him or where Paul ordered his followers to retaliate and punish those that opposed him, imprison him and stoned him. I forgot to mention how Stephen called bears on the people that were stoning him. I said you should use your head. Religion is blocking your reasoning. How many people died in the hands of Moses compared to the people that died in the hands of Paul?

Aren't you supposed to love your Lord more than anyone else? or can you love someone else more than your Lord and savior? What do you expect when your family and circle of friends are ogun, sango or Allah worshippers but you're the only Christian? You'll be on good terms and on the same page? What do you think happened to Paul when the Jews learnt he's converted to Christianity? They hated him and some even wanted to kill him. That's what those verses in the first passage were talking about. I don't know what the second passage has to do with this discussion. If you still don't understand, you can just repeat your usual platitudes.

9inches:
That's right. But the core of the whole morality question is why should a sociopath not have his own oponions and reserve the right to act out on them IF morality is subjective?

What sort of education or advancement do you mean? How educated and/or advanced were the people who proscribed slavery and how how uneducated and/or unadvanced were those who had slaves?

The people who proscribed slavery did not exist for most of history.

Because God allows us to exercise our freewill. By the way, the slavery in the bible is not chattel slavery.

These are your justification for killing another human? Wow

Physical death is merely a change of location

Not true. Our ideologies differ, our values differ also.

Not only that God loves, he is love itself. I don't know about you but I want a God who is love and just to be able to use his wisdom to judge, kill or save. Isn't it funny you hate that God plays God and take life in his infinite wisdom but you want human beings to be able to take life in the womb? What you are doing is using your own subjective standard to make objective moral argument.

God taking people out of this world is not harm. IF there really is life after death, then physical death is merely a change of location. IF heaven really exists, then taking people off the universe he created to heaven would rather be a glorious thing, not harm.

9inches:
Please explain this: "Matthew 10:34-39 "Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

RuthlessLeader:
This guy is not alright.

Just read up on sociopaths, you have no idea what you are talking about.

And about the subjective morality, you can't act out on your opinions if everyone else disagrees with them and will react violently to it.

Oh my.... Education and advancement in the sense of seeing how slavery was not good for those involved. Not how much they've learned.

What's your point? And your god is included among those who supported slavery.

RuthlessLeader:
I know this, that's why I said that people who proscribed slavery were incapable of doing anything about it for most of history.

This same God that killed Israelites by their thousands any time they disobeyed his instructions(a.k.a used free will) did not want to challenge their views on slavery. This is very stupid. God can make a law that says that gays and fornicators should be stoned to death(even though they used their free will) but he cannot condemn and make the Israelites stop slavery.

And Definition of chattel slavery: Chattel slavery. Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of the owner and are bought and sold as commodities. Typically, under the chattel slave system, slave status was imposed on children of the enslaved at birth.

Bible slavery: Female Hebrews could be sold by their fathers and enslaved for life (Exodus 21:7-11)

Male Hebrews could sell themselves into slavery for a six-year period to eliminate their debts, after which they might go free. However, if the male slave had been given a wife and had children with her, they would remain his master's property. They could only stay with their family by becoming permanent slaves (Exodus 21:2-5).
Non-Hebrews, on the other hand, could (according to Leviticus 25:44) be subjected to slavery in exactly the way that it is usually understood. The slaves could be bought, sold and inherited when their owner died. This, by any standard, is race- or ethnicity-based, and Leviticus 25:44-46 explicitly allows slaves to be bought from foreign nations or foreigners living in Israel. It does say that simply kidnapping Hebrews to enslave them is a crime punishable by death (Deuteronomy 24:7), but no such prohibition exists regarding foreigners. War captives could be made slaves, assuming they had refused to make peace (this applied to women and children — men were simply killed), along with the seizure of all their property (Deuteronomy 20:10-15).

Hereditary slaves were born into slavery and there is no apparent way by which they could obtain their freedom.

So the Bible endorses chattel slavery.

In the same post, this idiot said: "Physical death is merely a change of location" in response to me questioning why god kills children. Now he acts incredulous at my reasons why people abort. Hypocrite.

I'll also have you know that The Old Testament says abortion or killing of a child under 5 is less serious than murder. The father of the child or fetus should be compensated (not the mother). The compensation is higher if a boy is killed than if a girl is killed. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

Also, in case you are too lazy to read your bible, it says that in Exodus 21:22, if a man hits a woman, causing a miscarriage or premature birth, but no serious injury, he should be subject to a court-mediated fine from the woman's husband. If this was the case, then the act of causing a miscarriage could not be construed as 'murder' since compensation was not biblically allowed for murder (Numbers 35:31)

So, what's your new excuse?

Oh lord. People tend to have the same ideologies and they form groups with those who share them.

A load of rubbish.

Bullshit. I don't want to continue debating with you because you lack sense.

Funaki:
I just explained it to you. When you follow Jesus, men will "hate" you. This was immediately after Jesus sent his disciples into the world to preach. That's one of the "disadvantages" of being a Christian. Paul at a time was narrating his ordeals to Timothy and he mentioned how everyone had deserted him.

My former pastor started his ministry when he was a teen. He used to go for crusade and vigil. His parents didn't like the idea that he was using his youth to serve Jesus, they thought he was going to waste his life while others were serious with their life. It got to a time his mother wanted to disown him.

Another example, I had a friend in the university, he was the vice president of his fellowship. His parents didn't like the idea because they felt the fellowship was taking away their son. Because the guy stopped going home during the weekend and he had to put more Time into fellowship work. It caused a disagreement between the family and the fellowship. The guy had to resign and leave the fellowship at the end.
That's what that passage is talking about.

Why did you bring up this passage? I don't understand. You genuinely didn't know what it meant or you want to hear what I'll say?

Funaki:


You and your absolute morality bullsh!t. By the way, You seems to think only your God exist in the "God universe" and nobody can do right without your God standard. While your God is the example of evil personified.

why is it that Jesus and Paul didn't follow your argument. Jesus and Paul seems to portray God as a good guy whow doesn't do evil. Jesus started his ministry by teaching his guys in Matthew 5 to be like their heavenly God who doesn't pay evil for evil, who doesn't take revenge, who blesses both good and bad people ( I begin to wonder if Jesus read any of the books of Moses ). Or when Paul preached to gentiles in Acts 14 and 17 and started talking of God that allowed men to do whatever they liked in the past (really, which God? the one that destroyed Sodom? ).

The new testament guys had more sense. They knew the God character in the old testament was a fvcktard. They knew no God would be that savage and insane. That's why they toned down on the God aggression in their own stories.

God of the Old Testament was a bad idea, a psycho. The mad king in Game of thrones is learning from him.

9inches:
You haven't explained Matthew 10:34

9inches:


I brought it up because of this:

Would it shock you to know that Jesus Christ is God?

Funaki:
See the person that talked about cherry picking. Why did you pick out Matthew 10:34? Was the whole passage not together? when you read verse 34, you don't stop there, Jesus explained what he meant in the post-text of the verse. The books were not originally written in chapters and verses, men put chapters and verses. Jesus explained what he meant in verses 35 downwards. If it's too hard for you to understand, read Luke 12:51.

Luke 12:51 KJV
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Hahaha, yeah the Jesus character is the same as God of Moses and Elijah, he just happened to forget how to slaughter children in their sleep or how to destroy a whole generation for the sin of their fathers.

9inches:
I am waiting for your explanation as it relates to this verse.

9inches:


What are you saying now that you know that he is that same God?

Funaki:
Chai, haven't I explained or you don't just care about people's response?
Ok, let me help you remove the verses so you can read together as a whole and understand.

Matthew 10:34-38 KJV
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

I expect you to understand now, Read everything together.

If you still don't understand, read this commentary

Our Lord warned his disciples to prepare for persecution. They were to avoid all things which gave advantage to their enemies, all meddling with worldly or political concerns, all appearance of evil or selfishness, and all underhand measures. Christ foretold troubles, not only that the troubles might not be a surprise, but that they might confirm their faith. He tells them what they should suffer, and from whom. Thus Christ has dealt fairly and faithfully with us, in telling us the worst we can meet with in his service; and he would have us deal so with ourselves, in sitting down and counting the cost. Persecutors are worse than beasts, in that they prey upon those of their own kind. The strongest bonds of love and duty, have often been broken through from enmity against Christ. Sufferings from friends and relations are very grievous; nothing cuts more. It appears plainly, that all who will live godly in Christ Jesus must suffer persecution; and we must expect to enter into the kingdom of God through many tribulations. With these predictions of trouble, are counsels and comforts for a time of trial. The disciples of Christ are hated and persecuted as serpents, and their ruin is sought, and they need the serpent's wisdom. Be ye harmless as doves. Not only, do nobody any hurt, but bear nobody any ill-will. Prudent care there must be, but not an anxious, perplexing thought; let this care be cast upon God. The disciples of Christ must think more how to do well, than how to speak well. In case of great peril, the disciples of Christ may go out of the way of danger, though they must not go out of the way of duty. No sinful, unlawful means may be used to escape; for then it is not a door of God's opening. The fear of man brings a snare, a perplexing snare, that disturbs our peace; an entangling snare, by which we are drawn into sin; and, therefore, it must be striven and prayed against. Tribulation, distress, and persecution cannot take away God's love to them, or theirs to him. Fear Him, who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. They must deliver their message publicly, for all are deeply concerned in the doctrine of the gospel. The whole counsel of God must be made known, Ac 20:27. Christ shows them why they should be of good cheer. Their sufferings witnessed against those who oppose his gospel. When God calls us to speak for him, we may depend on him to teach us what to say. A believing prospect of the end of our troubles, will be of great use to support us under them. They may be borne to the end, because the sufferers shall be borne up under them. The strength shall be according to the day. And it is great encouragement to those who are doing Christ's work, that it is a work which shall certainly be done. See how the care of Providence extends to all creatures, even to the sparrows. This should silence all the fears of God's people; Ye are of more value than many sparrows. And the very hairs of your head are all numbered. This denotes the account God takes and keeps of his people. It is our duty, not only to believe in Christ, but to profess that faith, in suffering for him, when we are called to it, as well as in serving him. That denial of Christ only is here meant which is persisted in, and that confession only can have the blessed recompence here promised, which is the real and constant language of faith and love. Religion is worth every thing; all who believe the truth of it, will come up to the price, and make every thing else yield to it. Christ will lead us through sufferings, to glory with him. Those are best prepared for the life to come, that sit most loose to this present life. Though the kindness done to Christ's disciples be ever so small, yet if there be occasion for it, and ability to do no more, it shall be accepted. Christ does not say that they deserve a reward; for we cannot merit any thing from the hand of God; but they shall receive a reward from the free gift of God. Let us boldly confess Christ, and show love to him in all things.

Funaki:
While your God is the example of evil personified.

Jesus and Paul seems to portray God as a good guy whow doesn't do evil.

The new testament guys had more sense. They knew the God character in the old testament was a fvcktard. They knew no God would be that savage and insane. That's why they toned down on the God aggression in their own stories.

God of the Old Testament was a bad idea, a psycho. The mad king in Game of thrones is learning from him.

Funaki:
Sarcasm is lost on you.

This is how it feels discussing with you.

Funaki:
the Jesus character is the same as God of Moses and Elijah, he just happened to forget how to slaughter children in their sleep or how to destroy a whole generation for the sin of their fathers.

joseph1013:
I cannot think of a single person whose life was made worse because they started requiring evidence for claims before accepting them as a core belief.

I wonder where we got the idea that believing things without evidence is a good thing?

awesomeJ:

I'll help you:

The thousands that have their lives cut abruptly cos they were too arrogant to get s spiritual covering;

The millions who die of incurable ailments when they could have been healed by faith;

The plenty more millions who suffer needs cos they don't know the God that makes one richly abound;

The billions who are now weeping and gnashing their teeth in agony in the underworld.

Those are folks whose lives are/have become worse for failing to accept the simplicity of faith.

joseph1013:
I cannot think of a single person whose life was made worse because they started requiring evidence for claims before accepting them as a core belief.

I wonder where we got the idea that believing things without evidence is a good thing?

CodeSapien:
How many people proved science principles and laws they learnt in school conclusively before accepting them?
99.9% of all laws and science principle we buy into and build upon were never verified. We only read about the verification but no one has attacked science as a form pf witchcraft or dumb belief system yet. Wireless tech is just like religion and can never be conclusively proven to a carnal man but ho is challenging it today?

LordReed:


You free to challenge it and bring your evidence that is not as it is. Meanwhile the spiritual proportions have not showed us 1 single piece of compelling evidence.

CAPSLOCKED:


..AND WE'RE NOT EVEN FREE TO CHALLENGE THEM.
DOING SO GETS YOU HATE FROM THE COMMUNITY, AND EVEN DEATH IN SOME PARTS.

LordReed:


You free to challenge it and bring your evidence that is not as it is. Meanwhile the spiritual proportions have not showed us 1 single piece of compelling evidence.

CodeSapien:
Just like wireless tech hasnt.

joseph1013:
GOD, PLEASE COOK MY DINNER

Some people believe God can work miracles, like cure advanced cancer or save people in terrible plane crashes. The Bible tells us that God can do anything, he can even move a mountain into the sea. These are extraordinary things.

I would just like God to do something simple. When I get home from work late and dead tired, I would like to put my food on the kitchen table and have God cook it for me.

Or, if that is selfish of me, I would like him to notice when an elderly woman, alone in her cold house, is dying from hypothermia and make the house warm for her. Or, if she has become too weak to get out of her chair, to make her a cup of tea and boil her an egg.

Oddly, there is no known case of God doing any of these very simple things--things that almost any human could, and would, do for someone in need.

God only does things that could happen without God--a proportion of people with cancer do go into remission, and sometimes there are survivors of plane crashes. But dinners do not cook themselves and cold houses do not make themselves warm.

Think about this for a moment. It means the world behaves EXACTLY as it would if there was no God at all.

If only God would just boil an egg once in a while. But he won't.