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Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 12:22pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Good to know you are not claiming the authority given solely to the Church by Christ himself. So, why don't you listen and learn from the authority itself? Why do your own will when you are supposed to do the will of God? Your Scripture passages: I have mentioned here before that knowing the scripture is not a function of the human intellect. It takes humility for the spirit to reveal what is actually in plain sight to anyone. You can have a PhD in philosophy and theology and still not see anything from the scripture. It is seeing that makes the difference. Habbakuku says ... I will stand my watch and see what the Lord will say to me....not hear but see what the Lord will say ...say not present to...when you get to the level of seeing what somebody is saying you got another spirit of conviction beyond the intellect working through youWrong. You need intellect to be able to read and understand the bible. If you had cared for guidance you would have noticed that the book of Thessalonians you cited in support of the extra biblical practices of the Catholic church never supported what you purport it had supported. ….. ”whether by speech or by letter." Your second Scripture: You are to imitate me just as I have imitated Christ. What is the custom and tradition of Christ? Simple! It is written ...have ye not read? ... what saith the scripture? See: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he…. Jesus?.... expounded(means to explain the written word) unto them in all the SCRIPTURES the things concerning himself. (AV, Luke 24:27) [/quote]The "speech" as mentioned by Paul contains more than the letter while at the same time not contradicting each other. It's simply impossible to squeeze a 2 year teaching of Paul for example in a book or even in 10 books. So you can't have it all in the book. If today you are offered Timothy alive and the bible, which one would you choose to have proper all the truth? Your third scripture : keep away from men like the pope who live an undisciplined life and same that is without scripture backings … What is biblical discipline? According to my pastors definition, it is simply the disciple's lifestyle. Paul said more than once "what saith the scripture?" when proving his doctrinal points. That is the tradition he was talking about.. The tradition of validating every word from the scripture like they learnt from Jesus, himself.Your pastor could try to teach you the truth but always remember he has no authority to teach it. He's prone to error and so has all it takes to mislead you. I'd suggest to learn only from an authorized source - the One True Church, where Christ himself is the head; the only pillar and foundation of truth. The only Church guaranteed that the gates of hell shall never come against it. The tradition of the apostles was to ALWAYS show by the scripture that Christ was the LORD. God's tradition as practiced by Jesus and the apostles had support from the scripture. It never existed as an extraordinary additions to it. Acts 17:1-2 —In Thessalonica, Paul, “as his CUSTOM was,” went to the synagogue “and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.”Where did you get the tradition of the apostles in the bible? You simply don't know what they are. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.It's really simple, either the Church teaches the truth, as Christ guaranteed, or it doesn't, which would make Christ a liar. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 1:28pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:You're in confusion. Paul wrote this before the year 60AD, so that would make all the letters and books, including Revelation, invalid. You see how your interpretation falls apart? |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 1:30pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:There's no law against calling yourself a saint. You're attacking a straw man. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 1:38pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Your word against Christ himself. Only the Church is authorized to teach the truth. Continue living in denial and willful ignorance until it's too late. Attacking the Pope of bishops or any individual isn't going to help your case. It's either Christ himself is telling the truth - that he's the head of the body (the Church) and will be with the her until the end of time - or he's lying. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 1:44pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Sure. And my response will be that I warned that you are out of the body of Christ, but you chose to remain where you are. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 2:15pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
Jesus promised to send the Holy Ghost who will teach you all truth. The truth is not in any man. It is in the Spirit of God. Christ and his original apostles never referred to the church of God ...assembly of Gods people as the pillar or ground of the truth. You can't find any such word or statement in the bible. ... The church is only a privilege recipient of the truth God is not the author of confusion. What you and the Catholic Church led by the pope sees is only a reflection of their consciousness. It is not the mind or the intention of God. The Bible is absolutely complete for every practical purpose of Christianity. Christ promised to remain with the church, an assembly of his people, .... Any where two or three are gathered in his name is a church...an assemblage of his people that he will remain with 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 2:20pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
That is not what your church thinks or believe. Your church believes a saint is an omnipresent intercessor living in heaven 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 8:00pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
There is not a single verse or nook of the Bible that renders another invalid unless you are trying to understand the Bible with your human intellect. Every spoken word is only an expansion of the concise world of The Truth. Every good and intellect teacher uses illustration to bring home his point. When Jesus expounded from ALL scripture all that written concerning him he was only explaining all the summary in the scripture. He didn't add something the scriptures didn't envisaged or supported. He only explained in details all that was said by ALL the prophets concerning him When Paul says it shouldn't be beyond the intent of the written word he was only stating the e obvious learnt from Jesus Christ himself... The, it is written grand master. Every Scripture based prayer always have the, it is written, component but not all the words used in that prayer is expressly written in the scripture but if the stated word is not drawn from the written it won't have Gods power flowing through it because his power only flows through his word. It is word that he promised not to allow fall to the ground not yours 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 8:13pm On Apr 26, 2019 |
9inches: You have used that intellect to interpret 1 Timo 3:15 for ages to mean that your church is the ground and pillar of truth but just a simple, Holy Spirit what is the mind on God on this scripture revealed a meaning never known to all the great thinkers your church ever assembled in this same matter because God uses the foolish things if this world to confound the wise Household of God = Church of the Living God Living God = Ground and Pillar of The Truth. Your second Scripture: You are to imitate me just as I have imitated Christ. What is the custom and tradition of Christ? Simple! It is written ...have ye not read? ... what saith the scripture? See: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he…. Jesus?.... expounded(means to explain the written word) unto them in all the SCRIPTURES the things concerning himself. (AV, Luke 24:27) 9inches: It doesn't contain more than the letter. It is an expanded version of the letter. You have agreed that the letee and the speech didn't contradict themselves so where then is your argument? If a man is to read a letter to an illiterate, for the purpose of understanding the content of the letter he is bound to explain which is to expound. He is at liberty to use local scenario to try to bring clarity but not to introduce something the letter never envisaged as a practice... Example is the worship and prayers to your none omnipresent saints and Mary. It is not an expansion of any verse of the Bible or your church believe that the pope is infallible. Your church writing prayers with all the stops and twist is unscriptural. The Holy is the one to impress it in your heart when it kneel or stand Your third scripture : keep away from men like the pope who live an undisciplined life and same that is without scripture backings … What is biblical discipline? According to my pastors definition, it is simply the disciple's lifestyle. Paul said more than once "what saith the scripture?" when proving his doctrinal points. That is the tradition he was talking about.. The tradition of validating every word from the scripture like they learnt from Jesus, himself. 9inches: If you can explain from the scriptures when and where the church prayed to dead people and Mary or embarked on a process of canonization of a dead man into a saint then I will believe your statement. The tradition of the apostles was to ALWAYS show by the scripture that Christ was the LORD. God's tradition as practiced by Jesus and the apostles had support from the scripture. It never existed as an extraordinary additions to it. Acts 17:1-2 —In Thessalonica, Paul, “as his CUSTOM was,” went to the synagogue “and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.” There is no other way of checking the propagation of error but by the written word. The scripture is the only available tool backed by heaven for guiding against error within the body of Christians. You would readily agree with me that the only way for detecting error is by comparison against a known tried and perfect standard which is the Bible for one tradition can not be a standard for another. Example is your referring me to some ancient members of your church in trying to prove your point. The Scripture says the bereans search daily In the books of Acts 17:11 to see whether the word they receive had scriptural backing. When paul warned us about the consequences of being wise in our own eyes because he already saw this consequence from the written word: 1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is WRITTEN, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.Where did you get the tradition of the apostles in the bible? You simply don't know what they are. Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Angels in heaven comes tommen and only repeat the written word but a flesh and blood somewhere in his wisdom crafts something outside the scripture and you call it the tradition. Here: Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth. Revelation 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: (Angel telling John not to bow before him but your church says you should kneel before your Mary statue in prayer and still claim not to worship her) for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book…. The BOOK…. THE WRITTEN WORD: worship God Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Therefore when you harp on TRADITION AND THE APOSTLES, I assure you that whatever was the custom or tradition amongst them was and is still in the scriptureIt's really simple, either the Church teaches the truth, as Christ guaranteed, or it doesn't, which would make Christ a liar.[/quote] |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 7:07am On Apr 27, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Believe it or not, the bible says that. If you want to deflect because it makes you uncomfortable, go on. Your issue is with the bible and Christ himself. Your second Scripture: You are to imitate me just as I have imitated Christ. What is the custom and tradition of Christ? Simple! It is written ...have ye not read? ... what saith the scripture? See: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he…. Jesus?.... expounded(means to explain the written word) unto them in all the SCRIPTURES the things concerning himself. (AV, Luke 24:27)So what is the tradition of the early christians? What did they do in their churches? How did they baptize? What did they think of Mary? What did they think of the holy communion? It doesn't contain more than the letter. It is an expanded version of the letter. You have agreed that the letee and the speech didn't contradict themselves so where then is your argument?Again, you're still showing utter ignorance. You probably didn't know that those churches Paul and the apostles were writing to had already heard the gospel. So, most of the letters were like reminders, settling disputes and words of encouragement. The churches hold more truth than contained in the few pages of the bible. Paul spent 3 years in Arabia, and you think the pages of the bible contains everything he preached. God created you with a brain, please try to use it. And hey, maybe you should invite your pastor here, I have a question for him. Or could you ask him to give the name any first christian he knows from Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Philippians, etc. I'd love to hear his answer. If you can explain from the scriptures when and where the church prayed to dead people and Mary or embarked on a process of canonization of a dead man into a saint then I will believe your statement.Actually, I'm not wasting all these effort to convince you. You don't seem to me like a very rational individual. I'm making a case for any sensible reader who comes across our dialogue to see and consider. I'm too occupied with my time to try to convince you. My part is to lay bare my argument and my conviction. That's all. You need to ask the Spirit of Truth in prayer to reveal the truth to you with regards to the new (shocking) information you are getting. An honest heart will always find truth when it seeks it. BONUS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFkMyG35RPU |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 7:12am On Apr 27, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:You're making a lame argument. Jesus was already gone before the first ever book of the NT was written. If Paul meant "don't add to ALL the scripture" as you claimed, it would invalidate the latter additions to the scripture. But to us who understand better he wasn't referring to the whole scripture before or after him. He was talking specifically about the instructions he was giving them at that point the time. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 7:17am On Apr 27, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:That's what my church teaches. Your church believes a saint is an omnipresent intercessor living in heavenFalse. My church does not believe any person other than God is omnipresent. Saints in heaven can however hear the prayers of saints on earth. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 7:22am On Apr 27, 2019 |
If you church doesn’t believe that there is no other omnipresent but Jehovah then how and why does she believe that multiples prayers from different areas of Nigeria and Africa can be heard and answered by a so called saint in heaven? 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 7:23am On Apr 27, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:The truth is in the church and only the Church has the seal of authority to teach the truth. If you get your truth elsewhere, you are at risk of getting a mixture of some truth and some falsehood. The church that Christ himself is the head supersedes any human being because human are fallible... and therefore CANNOT until the end of time teach any single falsehood. The church is Christ's bride, that's why could see us use the pronoun "she". |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 7:25am On Apr 27, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Because in heaven, there's no time and space. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 7:35am On Apr 27, 2019 |
The only teacher of the truth , out of the scripture, is the Holy Spirit. Is it the truth to spend your longest hour of prayer communing with your Mary and her legions? Is it the truth to confer infallibility on a man when history records that some of the past holders of that same infallibility office of your church actually fathered children whose great grand children today runs the city of the Vatican? Is it the truth when the Bible goes in one direction and your church heads you in another on a single issue like sainthood? Is it the truth when your church tells you that there is a purgatory and Jesus and his apostles never knew of it? Is it the truth when Jesus was known to defend himself with, it is written and the apostles followed that tradition of, it is written, have you not read but your church cant show you where to read about Mary worship or prayers to and through their decorated saints? 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 7:42am On Apr 27, 2019 |
Clearly, you have exhausted your knowledge on what is before you. Your Saints are able to transform into omnipresent beings upon the earth because there is no time and space in heaven? 9inches: 1 Like |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 7:48am On Apr 27, 2019 |
What paul meant was for them to use the letters and the scripture as their guide.. That is why the actual word their is not scripture but the written. The written was to serve as guard and guide against error 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 10:44pm On Apr 28, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:You want Saints to become onmipresent like God? |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 10:50pm On Apr 28, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me: The right and the most basic question you should be asking is "did Jesus start a Church?" |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 10:52pm On Apr 28, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Because our prayer reaches heaven. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 12:53pm On Apr 29, 2019 |
And when your prayers got to heaven the actual mediator, Jesus Christ, was either too busy or hard of hearing that a new intercessor was granted without the knowledge of the scriptures to your church, right? 9inches: 1 Like |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 12:57pm On Apr 29, 2019 |
Did he start a church? 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 1:02pm On Apr 29, 2019 |
That is what your church is actually promoting. That Jesus Christ the one who paid the price to become our mediator in heaven, the only one that is the way to the father and the one who gave us his name as the passcode to heaven is too busy or too full of himself or untrustworthy to be relied on hence the multiplicity of Jesus’s within your church that plays the role he told us was exclusively his. 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 1:05pm On Apr 29, 2019 |
9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 6:17am On May 01, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Those are entirely your own views, the Catholic church does not hold such view. Bring me any evidence that supports your claim from Catholic teaching. Check Catechism of the Catholic Church or the Catholic Encyclopedia if you want to know exactly what the Church believes and teaches, and not what you think the church believes and teaches. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 6:18am On May 01, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Tell me, what do you think? Did he start a church? |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 6:20am On May 01, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:God hears all prayers, both the ones we pray and the ones our fellow saints pray on our behalf... He hears them all. |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 9:09am On May 01, 2019 |
When I was a catholic , I am very sure I was a better one than yourself. My wife is a cadet by reason of her dad been a super knight in your church. Whether you expressly write it down or not is of no consequence. What matters is the practice. If you leave the chief of staff to the president and use another means to try to access the president, it is either because you don't know the chief of staff, you don't trust him to grant you access or you have heard stories that is puffy himself. There must be a fundamental reason why you believe that a matter as serious as talking to God requires a a merry-go-round approach. God is forever eager to converse as a father with each and everyone of us. The one reason Jesus came was so we all could have access not through priest but individually to him hence the shredding of the veil of the temple signalling the admission of everyone that would care to approach God doesn't love any of those so called saints much more than he loves you. The love is equal. 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by Nodogragra4me(m): 9:16am On May 01, 2019 |
You are not sure of any of your previously held opinions, right? Even the scripture you thought said something has turned not to have thought of the ideas you and your church ascribed to them....all the scriptures you have cited as defence here ended up not actually saying that you proclaimed it said. You brought the matter of tradition and and gave scriptures but you have now discovered that the tradition was actually not what you have always thought it to be. You brought up the superiority of the church against the very end of God that existed even before the fort man was created. (May God forgive you.) and you equally discovered it wasn't what you thought. Brother, God though the holy spirit stands forever ready to back his word but never your personal opinion of it. 9inches: |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 8:05am On May 02, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:Your pastor has torn out the parts of your bible that encourages saints to pray for one another... right? |
Re: Oblate Eusebius Oguizu Is Dead: Founder Of Block Rosary Crusade In Nigeria Dies by 9inches(m): 8:13am On May 02, 2019 |
Nodogragra4me:How could I be wrong when you don't even understand the bible you claim to believe in? You are yet to understand that Christ established a church and gave it special authority, and the guarantee that it will NEVER fail. Arguing with is really a waste of time. I'm only doing this so that any person, especially younger people who come across this will read my replies. |
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