Rashduct4luv:


Abeg! keep up with your error searching! God's son don die for god's creations' sin!

The temple of God needs blood sacrifice for redemption of sins! No blood no redemption!

bye.

All Muslims for this thread. Let's leave the Christians alone. Make we go prepare for our fasting!

A farmer is in trouble if he yokes an ox and an ass together. These animals pull differently; they do not work well together. Here, the illustration is a believer with an unbeliever, and they also will not pull together because their minds do not work in the same way. God do not want us to be in close association with idols .

malvisguy212:

A farmer is in trouble if he yokes an ox and an ass together. These animals pull differently; they do not work well together. Here, the illustration is a believer with an unbeliever, and they also will not pull together because their minds do not work in the same way. God do not want us to be in close association with idols .

Yet he used Blood Sacrifice to redeem you Christians?

Ironi o! Irony!

Rashduct4luv:


Yet he used Blood Sacrifice to redeem you Christians?

Ironi o! Irony!

600 years later Muhammad came with contradicting account of the gospel , no eye witness, no one to verified his account, he received his revelation in the cave, and you believed his account ? even Muhammad is not sure of his salvation

malvisguy212:
600 years later Muhammad came with contradicting account of the gospel , no eye witness, no one to verified his account, he received his revelation in the cave, and you believed his account ? even Muhammad is not sure of his salvation

hypocrisy at its peak!

If you can believe Saul the prosecutor can became Paul the apostle by mere "light shining and some spoken words" but you refuse to believe in the revelation of Islam.

You have nothing to say please.

Rashduct4luv:


hypocrisy at its peak!

If you can believe Saul the prosecutor can became Paul the apostle by mere "light shining and some spoken words" but you refuse to believe in the revelation of Islam.

You have nothing to say please.

Paul had an encounter with Jesus and his compatriot bear witness , Muhammad claim to have seen the Angel Gabriel but who confirmed it ? note please , Muhammad never speak directly with Allah unless through this angel. how can we confirmed what he saw is the angel Gabriel and not Satan ?

malvisguy212:
Paul had an encounter with Jesus and his compatriot bear witness , Muhammad claim to have seen the Angel Gabriel but who confirmed it? note please , Muhammad never speak directly with Allah unless through this angel. how can we confirmed what he saw is the angel Gabriel and not Satan ?

malvisguy212:
Paul had an encounter with Jesus and his compatriot bear witness , Muhammad claim to have seen the Angel Gabriel but who confirmed it? note please , Muhammad never speak directly with Allah unless through this angel. how can we confirmed what he saw is the angel Gabriel and not Satan ?

The encounter Paul had can be with an evil spirit too you know? How many of his companion recognise Jesus' voice to know it was Jesus talking? abi Jesus get one special kind of light wey dm recognise?

If you can believe this above stop criticising Islam.

Moreover, it is established that angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her she will give birth to Jesus. No one asked for proof of this in Christianity as no one saw it happen.

Conclusion:

Angel Gabriel appeared to messengers of Allah as He Pleases. From Moses, Abraham,.....Muhammad.

Rashduct4luv:


The encounter Paul had can be with an evil spirit too you know? How many of his companion recognise Jesus' voice to know it was Jesus talking? abi Jesus get one special kind of light wey dm recognise?

If you can believe this above stop criticising Islam.

Moreover, it is established that angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her she will give birth to Jesus. No one asked for proof of this in Christianity as no one saw it happen.

Conclusion:

Angel Gabriel appeared to messengers of Allah as He Pleases. From Moses, Abraham,.....Muhammad.

Jesus appeared to Paul and Ananias confirmed it the same Jesus appeared to Ananias and commanded him to baptized Paul .

now, who confirmed the encounter Muhammad had with the angel Gabriel ?

Rashduct4luv:


The encounter Paul had can be with an evil spirit too you know? How many of his companion recognise Jesus' voice to know it was Jesus talking? abi Jesus get one special kind of light wey dm recognise?

If you can believe this above stop criticising Islam.

Moreover, it is established that angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her she will give birth to Jesus. No one asked for proof of this in Christianity as no one saw it happen.

Conclusion:

Angel Gabriel appeared to messengers of Allah as He Pleases. From Moses, Abraham,.....Muhammad.

This is exactly what I'm saying. Every iota of miracle in the Qur'an is being dismissed by these hypocrites.
Angel Gabriel appeared to Holy Mary but none of them has provided any proof that the angel actually did.

sulasa07:

He wants you to waste ur time explaining and still at the end,he will say you are not right about it.

Exactly. He's been answered already but still looking for what I don't know.

shadeyinka:

You see the problem!


Islam is another message hence the outright rejection by Christians.

You are the first Muslim who will attest that you worship Jehovah!

Mind you, I am not using the language equivalence of
Allah = God, God=Allah
Or
Allah = Olorun, Olorun = Allah
I asked is Allah = Jehovah and Jehovah= Allah?

The hate of Muslims towards Jews/Israel seem to say otherwise. For Jehovah is the God of Israel!


If you don't understand the concept of Trinity, ask, and I will use Islam to explain it.


I do not understand what you mean here. For your sake I didn't use the word logics in my last set of post to you. I guess you are the one obsessed with it!

Please make your question clear and God willing, I will answer you

Muslims hate the Jews, the Jews hate Muslims. So no problem. But do Christians hate Muslims so much, even though they are not responsible for the fictional crucifixion of Jesus? Shouldn't you hate those who killed your god?

I maintain that Allah is Jehovah and Jehovah is Allah, except you've created another Jehovah, but if it's the same Jehovah that sent our beloved Jesus to the Jews it is whom I serve.

You don't need to explain trinity. It's a false doctrine. Even the Judaism the Jesus practised believes in one God because God is unity not trinity.

Are you not reading your people's posts? They are fixated with the word "logical" but most of your doctrines are not. By way of illustration: is it logical that a virgin gives birth? Is it logical that a suckling speaks? Is it logical that Jehovah has no beginning and end? Is it logical that a new-born baby be called a sinner despite having not committed any sin? Is it logical to feed several thousand people with a loaf of bread and a fish? I can go on till Jesus comes..

These Christians funny die. They're comparing an absolutely monotheistic Islam theology to their polytheism. Aah!! I give up.

Surah 32:13:
“If We had so willed, We could certainly have
brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word
from Me will come true, “I will fill Hell with Jinns
and mankind all together.” (Yusuf Ali)

The above Qur'anic verse reveals that Allah deliberately holds back guidance for the sole pleasure of filling Hell with mankind (and Jinns).

The Problem here is Common sense to question events since Faith will be Built on it.

Muhammad saw Gabriel and received from him. The Quran recommended that if for clarity all muslim should go back to the Bible.

Unfortunately, the same Muslim Sheiks have rejected the Bible saying it was compromised since its message and the one brought by Muhammad Contradict each other.


But beyond arqueing, all proper should study the revelation of Gabriel to Daniel. Have not heard of any Muslim scholars reject The Book of Daniel.


Study the revelation of Daniel with his encounter with Gabriel and check with Muhammad then you will see there is a mix up somewhere.


The problem Christians had with Muslim is that though Muslim believe in the word of Allah, there is no witness.

Witness is important if not deceptions is inevitable, a Almighty God will know that, Muhammad said he dosnt know where he is going (hell or heaven).

Even he is uncertain. So how can we believe everything he said he got. No witness.


Now the question OP asked if not answers by Quran then it's not enough to say It wasn't Jesus that died on the Cross when there is dated historical and Known fact that Jesus died.

Accepting a Faith in Africa is a problem. Our parents force their Faith on Us. Either Christian or Muslim it's time we ask question and be sure of our Faith and not just be Convinced just because its a way of life we grew up with.


But personally am convinced, a last Prophet who God will use should have better character, assignment and moral responsibility than Jesus.


Muhammad beyond the faith of respecting him can never be compared to Jesus based on leadership, morals and character. A waring Prophet after Jesus should definitely be a Negative to the Last Prophet.

One was willing to die and raise disciples that did the same, the other was involved in War and blood was shed.


I wonder on what ground the two faith Can stand. Do when a later faith tried to make statements to outdo the former we should question it and we have. No Answer, other than insult and arrogance.

CONFUSIONIST

nutarious:
The Problem here is Common sense to question events since Faith will be Built on it.

Muhammad saw Gabriel and received from him. The Quran recommended that if for clarity all muslim should go back to the Bible.

Unfortunately, the same Muslim Sheiks have rejected the Bible saying it was compromised since its message and the one brought by Muhammad Contradict each other.


But beyond arqueing, all proper should study the revelation of Gabriel to Daniel. Have not heard of any Muslim scholars reject The Book of Daniel.


Study the revelation of Daniel with his encounter with Gabriel and check with Muhammad then you will see there is a mix up somewhere.


The problem Christians had with Muslim is that though Muslim believe in the word of Allah, there is no witness.

Witness is important if not deceptions is inevitable, a Almighty God will know that, Muhammad said he dosnt know where he is going (hell or heaven).

Even he is uncertain. So how can we believe everything he said he got. No witness.


Now the question OP asked if not answers by Quran then it's not enough to say It wasn't Jesus that died on the Cross when there is dated historical and Known fact that Jesus died.

Accepting a Faith in Africa is a problem. Our parents force their Faith on Us. Either Christian or Muslim it's time we ask question and be sure of our Faith and not just be Convinced just because its a way of life we grew up with.


But personally am convinced, a last Prophet who God will use should have better character, assignment and moral responsibility than Jesus.


Muhammad beyond the faith of respecting him can never be compared to Jesus based on leadership, morals and character. A waring Prophet after Jesus should definitely be a Negative to the Last Prophet.

One was willing to die and raise disciples that did the same, the other was involved in War and blood was shed.


I wonder on what ground the two faith Can stand. Do when a later faith tried to make statements to outdo the former we should question it and we have. No Answer, other than insult and arrogance.

You are a true definition of confusion

shadeyinka:

I like the civil way in which you presented your views even though the Question was still NOT answered. I am aware of the several different postulates of Islam on this issue. This question was one of those that prevented me from reciting the shahada in my 200 Levels ( the contradiction between the Bible and Qur'an on the Death of Christ) and the conflicting response of Islam.

What I have done now is put the Islamic version to the test of truth by asking a simple question (on what both faiths agree about: that Jesus was taken to heaven bodily) for it reveals which version of the story could be trusted.

You will note that I have carefully avoided the question of the Crucifixion itself and who was Crucified : so that it doesn't matter who was Crucified in the place of Christ BUT to "How Jesus was taken to Heaven".

However you look at it, Allah taking up Jesus to heaven would either be
1. With the knowledge of Jesus's disciples OR
2. Without their knowledge.

From the different alternate theories of the crucifixion proposed in my previous post, you can come to different answers some of which solve the problems you speak of and others remain ambiguous.
If what you are looking for is a definite answer that is uniformly agreed upon by most or all Muslims, then I am sorry to tell you there is non.
As we have tried to persistently tell you, the accounts and details of Jesus's crucifixion is not relevant to Islam. So we don't have an answer to your question that you would find satisfying.

If it was with the knowledge of the disciples, then there was no reason why the disciples will insist that Jesus was Crucified on the cross AND the Islamic version (any one of them) would be untrue.

If it was without the knowledge of the disciples, it portrays Allah as unjustly wicked and a deciever who decieved Mary and the disciples and caused Christians to see Christ as Saviour. This is against the character of Allah for Allah is righteous. Who made Mary to follow a conjecture? Is it not Allah? It cannot be, hence this version is most likely untrue.

The whole of Christianity is based on the Death and Resurrection of Christ. Remove it and everything about Christianity scatters irrevocably. So, you can see why it is extremely important both to Allah and Christians.

Not necessarily. That is your perspective (of the Islamic view of the crucifixion). What I see is God saving his beloved messenger from the suffering his enemies would have inflicted on him. As to how God saved Jesus, whether it was the same (miraculous) way Allah made the great fire to not hurt Ibrahim(AS) or it is by the replacement theory believed by most and/or Jesus was raised to heaven in the presence of his disciples or not. I don't know.
The idea that Jesus died for the sins of the world (and hence he saved it) is something that comes from Paul a man that only turned after the believed resurrection of Jesus and holds views quite different from the other apostles(that spent time with Jesus) such as the issue of circumcision. So don't blame us for being skeptical of the guy and his claims.
Anti Trinitarian doctrines of Christianity are not based on the death and resurrection ( but I know they are considered heretics by mainstream christianity).

I honestly think it is myopic and naive to JUST pick a version of two conflicting histories/stories and accept it as truth while avoiding to Question it. For the Truth is ALWAYS validated by questioning.

Ok. For me to try my best to understand the events of the biblical accounts and question it, it would require me to read all the different stories in the different gospels (a work I might not have time for at the moment) and so that I can come to my own conclusions and understanding.

The announcement of Jesus to the world was: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". His mission therefore was declared to be UNIVERSAL. right from the beginning.

It was NOT the apostles or Paul who created the doctrine of redemption.

When Adam sinned a MUTATION took place that subsequently passed on to everyone born through him.

It had to take the virgin birth to bypass the effect of that sinful nature passed down to every descendant of Adam.

Jesus was that bypass. That bypass made him sinless and qualified to RESCUE others out of the slave market of sin.

Jesus himself began early in his rapport with his close aides to tell them that he would lay down his life for his sheep. Later on he clearly told them he was going to be crucified.

So the CROSS was not an afterthought.

He was so clear in details that he specifically said that he would resurrect after three days. His friends and foes were aware of all his declarations. Rome - an independent arbiter was involved. Therefore, It was, like they say, an OPEN secret.

The crucifixion took place. Rome attested to it. The Gospels proclaim it. These are WITNESSES. (For those looking for witnesses). For a period of 40 days thereafter Jesus was showing himself to his followers. These were WITNESSES.

So, for an Arabian hustler (who was UNSURE of his prophethood and had NO WITNESSES to many of his claims) to come 600 years after and claim that the crucifixion was a HOAX is the height of arrogance and direct CONFRONTATION to Divine Authority. It is as serious as that.

This ATTACK essentially BLOCKS many from seeing their need for God's ONLY SOLUTION for the redemption of mankind.

Islam cannot resolve the illogicality of a JUST Allah becoming a DECEIVER of his own creatures when he should make things clear for them.

Islam cannot resolve the illogicality of a BOOK that has ALWAYS existed in heaven being so unorganized, lopsided, without details on key issues and generally full of contradictory/ conflicting positions on MANY issues. There is HARDLY any issue in the Koran that you will not find an opposite side - e.g. it will tell you Christians are the closest to Moslems and then turn round and state that Moslems should not make Jews and Moslems friends. Didn't Allah know exactly what he wanted?

To our Moslem guys the issues are simple: The crucifixion made it possible for man to be accepted by God. Man's RELATIVE righteousness is nothing. You can only be better than another but as far as a HOLY God's standards are, man attains nothing. Unless you want to claim that Allah's standards are as human standards. In that case Allah will be less than divine. The only way out is therefore God's way NOT the futile Islamic attempts at appeasing God through rituals that are meaningless. Rituals that even they themselves are unable to understand nor explain.

Jesus died and rose again from the dead. That is the TRUTH. Anything else is a LIE. "We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" 1 John 4:14
"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Annointed)? This is the antichrist (the enemy and antagonist of Christ), the one who denies and consistently refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son". 1 John 2:22.

aadoiza:

I can be my life on it that Christianity will never trump the religion of Allah SWT in this country of ours. You don't even know that Christianity has already fallen tey tey, what you have now is a parody, a joke at best.

See as you and malvisguy212 have different versions of God stories. Christianity and Islam don't agree yet u claim God is real. You claim God reveal himself to you. If so why don't you guy have universal agreement in America 1+1 is 2 and same in Nigeria because it is the truth. Truth is universal.
God is not the truth. Mr Muslim go and look for someone to behead

Empiree:
CONFUSIONIST You are a true definition of confusion

Let's prove the core message of this Two Religion philosophy.


You a Muslim go to a church and throw a stone in the middle of the congregation and see what they will do to you.


Compare it with A Christian doing same to a congregation of Muslim in fellowship.


The Spirit of the Faith will be revealed.


How do you follow someone who said he dosnt know exactly if its Heaven or Hell he is going. Muhammad wrote this himself.


So who is Confused here?


Jesus has been a blessing to the world, even Ghandi of Indian is a better leader than Muhammad.


How a last prophet will be so incomparable to the previous is a question that's a sane mind should question.


You must be the real confused person. You need Jesus.

nutarious:



Let's prove the core message of this Two Religion philosophy.


You a Muslim go to a church and throw a stone in the middle of the congregation and see what they will do to you.


Compare it with A Christian doing same to a congregation of Muslim in fellowship.


The Spirit of the Faith will be revealed.


How do you follow someone who said he dosnt know exactly if its Heaven or Hell he is going. Muhammad wrote this himself.


So who is Confused here?


Jesus has been a blessing to the world, even Ghandi of Indian is a better leader than Muhammad.


How a last prophet will be so incomparable to the previous is a question that's a sane mind should question.


You must be the real confused person. You need Jesus.

you ain't here to learn anything. It will be a good waste of my time to engage you.

fuckfuckman:

See as you and malvisguy212 have different versions of God stories. Christianity and Islam don't agree yet u claim God is real. You claim God reveal himself to you. If so why don't you guy have universal agreement in America 1+1 is 2 and same in Nigeria because it is the truth. Truth is universal.
God is not the truth. Mr Muslim go and look for someone to behead

Bleh Bleh Bleh. When ignorance meets confusion the result is an idiot like you.

aadoiza:

Bleh Bleh Bleh. When ignorance meets confusion the result is an idiot like you.

When u run out of point on arguments you resort to abuses so when I abuse you back we'll live the topic.
I ask again if God is true and he talks to you Christians Muslims and other religions why do you all have different stories about him. Why don't your stories agree? See as you and malvisguy212 are fighting over God.
Why not he reveal himself to you people since you claim God can talk.

Empiree:
you ain't here to learn anything. It will be a good waste of my time to engage you.

Shalom

nutarious:

Shalom

walaikum salaam

sulasa07:

“When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you
to die and will raise you to myself, and will
clear thee of those who disbelieve, and will
place those who follow thee above those
who disbelieve, until the Day of
Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return
and I will judge between you concerning that
wherein you differ.” (3:56 )

Sorry for the very late reply. The quote of mine in my last post to you earned me a three day ban from seun's Spambots! There was no way I could reply you and others.

I presume you are an Ahmadya. And on this attempt of reconciling quran3:56 with the Crucifixion at all cost, you redefine the word Crucifixion. Every other lies is built on it.

Was Jesus crucified?
The Qur'an says NO!
Ahmadi's say YES but since Jesus didn't die, he couldn't have been Crucified. Is this not a BIG contradiction?

Until you cross this bridge, every other thing is just a connecture!

sulasa07:

“When Allah said, O Jesus, I will cause you
to die and will raise you to myself, and will
clear thee of those who disbelieve, and will
place those who follow thee above those
who disbelieve, until the Day of
Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return
and I will judge between you concerning that
wherein you differ.” (3:56 )

You should note that the Qur'an is even not in any specific order

aadoiza:


Muslims hate the Jews, the Jews hate Muslims. So no problem. But do Christians hate Muslims so much, even though they are not responsible for the fictional crucifixion of Jesus? Shouldn't you hate those who killed your god?

I maintain that Allah is Jehovah and Jehovah is Allah, except you've created another Jehovah, but if it's the same Jehovah that sent our beloved Jesus to the Jews it is whom I serve.

You don't need to explain trinity. It's a false doctrine. Even the Judaism the Jesus practised believes in one God because God is unity not trinity.

Are you not reading your people's posts? They are fixated with the word "logical" but most of your doctrines are not. By way of illustration: is it logical that a virgin gives birth? Is it logical that a suckling speaks? Is it logical that Jehovah has no beginning and end? Is it logical that a new-born baby be called a sinner despite having not committed any sin? Is it logical to feed several thousand people with a loaf of bread and a fish? I can go on till Jesus comes..

Christians don't hate Muslims. It was even commanded that we love you even at your worst behaviour. Christians have no qrudge even against the Jews, how much more you Muslims!

I will love to be corrected once and for all not by your testimony that Allah is Jehovah (I suspect it is just Taqiyya from you) but from any Tefsir or Hadith that is reputable (with Jehovah or Yahweh as Allah). I think this is a fair deal. Other than this your stance is just Taqiyya!

You seem to be fixated by the word logical!
Islam and Christianity believes in miracles, hence the power of God is not disputed.
BUT
The problem at hand actually isn't about the miracle of Allah taking up Jesus Christ to heaven. The problem is a simple question
#was the miracle in the presence of some Disciples OR none at all?

Is there a third alternative?

Mind you, Christians forgot to put in their Bible that Jesus spoke as a baby! How could they have forgotten?

IMAliyu:

From the different alternate theories of the crucifixion proposed in my previous post, you can come to different answers some of which solve the problems you speak of and others remain ambiguous.
If what you are looking for is a definite answer that is uniformly agreed upon by most or all Muslims, then I am sorry to tell you there is non.
As we have tried to persistently tell you, the accounts and details of Jesus's crucifixion is not relevant to Islam. So we don't have an answer to your question that you would find satisfying.

Your position is understandable BUT not defendable. It is like accusing Buhari's wife of Adultery without justifying the accusation. Is this a tenable accusation?

The Qur'an says that "the Bible LIED!" and with no justification either from your Tefsirs or Hadiths or even Logics. How can we know which of the Books is lying?

You see that the issue isn't about things like "Jesus spoke as a Baby!" which Islam supports but has no bases in the scriptures/Bible.

The issue of the death and resurrection of Jesus is the main pivot on which the whole of Christianity is based. In fact, no one can enter paradise as a Christian without it. Hence, if it is irrelevant to Muslims, the accusation is EXTREMELY GREVIOUS!

IMAliyu:

Not necessarily. That is your perspective (of the Islamic view of the crucifixion). What I see is God saving his beloved messenger from the suffering his enemies would have inflicted on him. As to how God saved Jesus, whether it was the same (miraculous) way Allah made the great fire to not hurt Ibrahim(AS) or it is by the replacement theory believed by most and/or Jesus was raised to heaven in the presence of his disciples or not. I don't know.
The idea that Jesus died for the sins of the world (and hence he saved it) is something that comes from Paul a man that only turned after the believed resurrection of Jesus and holds views quite different from the other apostles(that spent time with Jesus) such as the issue of circumcision. So don't blame us for being skeptical of the guy and his claims.
Anti Trinitarian doctrines of Christianity are not based on the death and resurrection ( but I know they are considered heretics by mainstream christianity).


Ok. For me to try my best to understand the events of the biblical accounts and question it, it would require me to read all the different stories in the different gospels (a work I might not have time for at the moment) and so that I can come to my own conclusions and understanding.

The implication of God saving his Prophet is not small at all. If according to Islam, God created a new human being (not a descendant of Adam and Eve) to preach the oneness of Allah to the Jews and he preached for about three years before the almighty Allah evacuated him to heaven (bodily): could it be that Allah didn't have a foreknowledge of what would happen to Jesus? Doesn't it look like Jesus failed miserably in his mission? Instead of Jesus's preaching enthroning monotheism, his message according to you Muslims have created hundreds of millions of polytheists!

All you contemporary Muslims blame Paul for what you consider as heretic teachings of the Bible. Can you find a single hadith (trustworthy or not) where Prophet Mohammed who is supposed to be the best Muslim condemn Paul?

Maybe I should find you some scriptures by other apostles other than Pauls teaching.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all , the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."


1 Peter 1:18-19
knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 2:14
Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Just as I won't lump up what you believe with that of the Ahmadias, don't lump what Christian heretic believe with mine.

Rashduct4luv:


The encounter Paul had can be with an evil spirit too you know? How many of his companion recognise Jesus' voice to know it was Jesus talking? abi Jesus get one special kind of light wey dm recognise?

If you can believe this above stop criticising Islam.

Moreover, it is established that angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her she will give birth to Jesus. No one asked for proof of this in Christianity as no one saw it happen.

Conclusion:

Angel Gabriel appeared to messengers of Allah as He Pleases. From Moses, Abraham,.....Muhammad.

Do you know why the Jews didn't accept Mohammed as a Prophet? He didn't bear any of the marks of a Prophet
1. A Prophet receive his message directly from God not through any angel. Like Mary spoke with an Angel, but she is not a Prophet, Hajara (Hagar) spoke with an Angel but she isn't a prophet.
2. Prophets are usually backed with miracles as signs OR short term Prophecies which come to pass

The encounter of your Prophet does not look similar to that of others in the scriptures. Moreover, Jubril never once identified himself as Jubril...it was assumed that the spirit was Jubril.

If an evil spirit spoke to Paul and blinded him, was it the same evil spirit that told Ananias to heal Paul? Find a better argument!

Act 9:10-19 :
"Now there was in Damascus a certain disciple named Ananias , And to him the Lord said in a vision, Ananias! And he said, Lord, here I am. Then the Lord said to him, Arise and go to the street, which is called Straight street, and inquire at the house of Judas for Saul of Tarsus; for behold he is praying, and hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias, coming in and laying a hand on him that he may recover sight. Upon which Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many concerning this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints in Jerusalem; and he is here with authority from the chief priests to bind all who invoke thy name. And the Lord said to him, Go: for this person is a vessel which I have chosen to bear my name before nations and kings and the children of Israel. For I will shew him what he must suffer for my name. So Ananias went and entered the house, and having laid his hands on him, said, Brother Saul, The Lord, even Jesus who appeared to thee on the road as thou camest, hath sent me that thou mayst recover sight and be filled with a holy spirit. Upon this there fell immediately from his eyes something like scales, and instantly he recovered sight. Then he arose and was baptized; and having taken some food, he was strengthened. And Saul was some days with the brethren in Damascus

,"

sagenaija:
The announcement of Jesus to the world was: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". His mission therefore was declared to be UNIVERSAL. right from the beginning.

It was NOT the apostles or Paul who created the doctrine of redemption.

When Adam sinned a MUTATION took place that subsequently passed on to everyone born through him.

It had to take the virgin birth to bypass the effect of that sinful nature passed down to every descendant of Adam.

Jesus was that bypass. That bypass made him sinless and qualified to RESCUE others out of the slave market of sin.

Jesus himself began early in his rapport with his close aides to tell them that he would lay down his life for his sheep. Later on he clearly told them he was going to be crucified.

So the CROSS was not an afterthought.

He was so clear in details that he specifically said that he would resurrect after three days. His friends and foes were aware of all his declarations. Rome - an independent arbiter was involved. Therefore, It was, like they say, an OPEN secret.

The crucifixion took place. Rome attested to it. The Gospels proclaim it. These are WITNESSES. (For those looking for witnesses). For a period of 40 days thereafter Jesus was showing himself to his followers. These were WITNESSES.

So, for an Arabian hustler (who was UNSURE of his prophethood and had NO WITNESSES to many of his claims) to come 600 years after and claim that the crucifixion was a HOAX is the height of arrogance and direct CONFRONTATION to Divine Authority. It is as serious as that.

This ATTACK essentially BLOCKS many from seeing their need for God's ONLY SOLUTION for the redemption of mankind.

Islam cannot resolve the illogicality of a JUST Allah becoming a DECEIVER of his own creatures when he should make things clear for them.

Islam cannot resolve the illogicality of a BOOK that has ALWAYS existed in heaven being so unorganized, lopsided, without details on key issues and generally full of contradictory/ conflicting positions on MANY issues. There is HARDLY any issue in the Koran that you will not find an opposite side - e.g. it will tell you Christians are the closest to Moslems and then turn round and state that Moslems should not make Jews and Moslems friends. Didn't Allah know exactly what he wanted?

To our Moslem guys the issues are simple: The crucifixion made it possible for man to be accepted by God. Man's RELATIVE righteousness is nothing. You can only be better than another but as far as a HOLY God's standards are, man attains nothing. Unless you want to claim that Allah's standards are as human standards. In that case Allah will be less than divine. The only way out is therefore God's way NOT the futile Islamic attempts at appeasing God through rituals that are meaningless. Rituals that even they themselves are unable to understand nor explain.

Jesus died and rose again from the dead. That is the TRUTH. Anything else is a LIE. "We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" 1 John 4:14
"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Annointed)? This is the antichrist (the enemy and antagonist of Christ), the one who denies and consistently refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son". 1 John 2:22.

Perfectly said sis!
But I'll like you to use more of "Quotes" so that your message can be directed at one or two people. Like click the quote under this my post before responding.

Cheers!

shadeyinka:

Sorry for the very late reply. The quote of mine in my last post to you earned me a three day ban from seun's Spambots! There was no way I could reply you and others.

I presume you are an Ahmadya. And on this attempt of reconciling quran3:56 with the Crucifixion at all cost, you redefine the word Crucifixion. Every other lies is built on it.

Was Jesus crucified?
The Qur'an says NO!
Ahmadi's say YES but since Jesus didn't die, he couldn't have been Crucified. Is this not a BIG contradiction?

Until you cross this bridge, every other thing is just a connecture!



You should note that the Qur'an is even not in any specific order

I'm not an Ahmadiya or some sect,I'm a Muslim.Jesus wasn't crucified but he could have lived and died,because he wasn't crucified doesn't mean he couldn't die.

sulasa07:

I'm not an Ahmadiya or some sect,I'm a Muslim.Jesus wasn't crucified but he could have lived and died,because he wasn't crucified doesn't mean he couldn't die.

I am hearing of this your angle for the first time.
If I get you well, you are saying:
1. Jesus wasnt Crucified
2. But Jesus is Dead
3. Then resurrected to be taken up to heaven

Qur'an4:157 - 158,
[So We cursed them for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God." And they did not kill him , nor did they crucify him ; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, God raised him to Himself. And ever is God Almighty and Most Wise.

If I understand your position, are you saying that instead of the Jews and Romans killing Jesus, it was Allah himself that killed him?

Why also then would Allah have kill Jesus to raise Him to himself?