phineas:

Yoruba share lots and lots of similarities with ancient Egypt including words and cultures.The one I find most amusing is naming the mother after her first child's name Mama x. Ancient eygyptian

ademijuwonlo:

They all traced their root to Ile-ife and Each towns have developed differently due to contact with people of different ethnicity due to trade and other factors that can't be explained!

aribisala0:
...The Yoruba idea is ALL ethnicities ,ALL humanities came from Ile-Ife. That is where the first man arose. It is not exclusive to Yoruba even the Chinese and Arabs all came from Ile-Ife.
In other word Ile-Ife is the Yoruba version of the Garden of Eden.

aribisala0:


Sir with respect this is not logic .


Before you talk about being less or more Yoruba you must define the attributes that constitute Yoruba-ness

Is a seat anything that we sit on?

The fact is that what it means to be "Yoruba" Today is not what it meant 100 years ago. It is a Nigerian construct.
The same or similar people in Benin are not called Yoruba . WHY?

How can you compare eating with circumcision.
It is quite a stupid thing to say.
If you do not know what to say keep quiet

The fact is you only intermarried with your own kind.

Circumcision meant the Ijebus did not intermarry with many so called Yoruba groups for centuries and that has left an enduring narrative of other-ness and different-ness between the Ijebu and other groups

Born2Breed:


To them it's about supremacy,ego...

One scholar even said to me that it's preferable to claim Oduduwa is from the North than Benin,one person here even stated the same thing.

That was when I gave up on them,before then some of their scholars met at Oranmiyan Hall at Airport Hotel,Ikeja and agreed that Oduduwa is definitely not from Mecca and they should never agree on Benin either.

Leave them and let them wallow in their ignorance. Tomorrow we will hear Hausa people were the first in Ife before Igbo. Las las them go agree on Benin soon.

perryy:


Izoduwa (oduduwa) was from Benin. Anyone who believe he fell from the sky must be drunk as there is no life in the sky. The people then believed he came from the sky because he told them he was the son of Ogiso(king of the sky) . Those men that believed he was from Saudi are dimwitted as it would have been impossible for him to treck down to Ile Ife all the way from Saudi. He told them he was from the side where the sun rises from , that is East, and Benin is east of Ife .

In that case , Olugbo is right ,if you are talking of Paramount rulers of those that speak the Yoruba language. Now if u are talking of Oyo empire, then the Alafin of Oyo is number one and not even Ile ife as Ife did not great any empire . Outside Oyo empire , there was no other unified Yoruba kingdom in history which Ife was the head of. Now , how cone Ooni of Ife is now the number one ruler of Yoruba land ? Was there anything like Yoruba land in history? What history has is Oyo empire which was headed by the Alafin of Oyo and not Ooni of Ife.

If we are to jettison the Oyo empire and talk about a unified Yoruba kingdom, I think the Olugbo is very right as his kingdom predate that of Izoduwa no obhi Arunmunda ( Oduwuwa the son of Arunmunda) It is either we jettison Oyo influence and recognize Ugbo or stand by Oyo and make Alafin the number one ruler of
the modern Oyo empire . Thank you.

ademijuwonlo:

The Ijebus have an eulogise that says ; Ijebu takes care of concubines tenderly like they have never seen women before, but they have twenty-thirty wives at home. who would give out his/her daughter out in marriage to people like that?

kunmiiii:


I'm not arguing that with you na, I only sought to dispel your erroneous assertions that Ugbo were ruling the people of Ife before the emergence of Oduduwa.

ademijuwonlo:


Ile-ife is the spiritual head of Yoruba land; in the olden days, it was where sacrifices and atonements were offer to appease/celebrate the gods of the land.

forgiveness:



A larger proportion of Yorubas are either Muslims or Christians.

fatiaforreal:

Do you think they have a response? They can only try to suppress him.
Have you ever asked yourself if Yoruba race started at the time of Oduduwa? If not, who were the people he met in Ile Ife? Don't be deceived the coming of Oduduwa to Ife was by peaceful means, it was a war that vanquished the old dynasty, transforming Ife Oyelagbo to Ife Oodua. Most people are talking out of sheer ignorance.

Amujale:


Yoruba predate the middle East in years that amount in thousands upon thousands.

When either Ife or Oyo empire is at the heights of their success, there was NO people resident in Asia.

Everyone living on the planet those times are all resident of the African continent.


Africans are the first people to populate Asia, and that was hundreds of thousands of years after experiencing numerous empires and civilisations e.g Ife, Oyo, Zimbabwe, Ethiopia e.t.c

aribisala0:


The proposition whether "probably" or not is untrue

Oba of Lagos is not Oduduwa in any roundabout or traffic light way that is rubbish.

Not all kings in Lagos are Aworis many are Ijebus who have no claim about their kings coming from Ife

LazyGold:


When all You Benin do is lied


You Claim Oranmiyan was the son of Oduduwa when Oranmiyan was really the Grandson of Oduduwa

The Olugbo of Ugbo King did not say Oduduwa migrated from Benin, but you Benin are already lying that he said Oduduwa migrated from Benin

forgiveness:



Oduduwa was not from Benin. Benin never had oba and organisation until someone from Ife changed the monarchy system in Benin.

Where did Oduduwa get all those things from?

Amujale:

Yes, yes i would.

forgiveness:



A larger proportion of Yorubas are either Muslims or Christians.

ademijuwonlo:

You didn't have to be rude to pass your message in a debate.You are rude by saying I should keep quiet and by calling by comparison stupid.You are allowed to make your argument without insult. Kindly,learn some manners especially when it comes to how to talk or engage people in public. FYI, We are all here to share and learn since no one is an island of knowledge.
Other Yoruba didn't even like marrying the Ijebus because it was believed that they were fetish, miser and weren't taking care of their wives like they cared for concubines. The Ijebus have an eulogise that says ; Ijebu takes care of concubines tenderly like they have never seen women before, but they have twenty-thirty wives at home. who would give out his/her daughter out in marriage to people like that?

aribisala0:


The Ijebus stood out from all other so called Yoruba for this ONE THING
Eatings taboos may affect Family groups or clans but female circumcision is the one thing that differentiates the Ijebu not just from Yoruba but the WHOLE of Southern Nigeria if not the whole Nigeria.

To then compare that to eating millet or popcorn is a disgrace


Once again sir your comparison of circumcison with eating taboo is quite unintelligent bordering on stupid. Sometimes smart people say stupid things.


but
Imu jina si oju

what people eat( eating taboos) and circumcision are so fundamentally different and if you do not get it there is no point of further engagement.


There are certain affinity markers are are fundamental
Naming ceremonies
Burial ceremonies
Kingship rites and governance systems
Marriage ceremonies/rites/practice including female circumcision



You really have nothing to say to me if you think there is a nexus between the two.

I thought you had a serious contribution to make

Other Yorubas? The fact is that Other "Yorubas " again is an ignorant statement.

We are talking about a time when there were no bicycles not to talk of cars

ant the entire region was more or less forest

There was very very little intermarriage except among neigbouring villages so the prospect of Ondo marrying Ife or Oyo except through slavery was rare so stop propagating silly myths
Ijebus generally married Ijebus or Egbas,Oyos married themselves and so on


The fact is groups DID NOT IDENTIFY themselves as Yoruba? Why would they? What does YORUBA mean?

The people everybody knew as Yoruba were Oyo and their close relatives.
Apart from that the people would have assumed that the forest was the world and all people spoke a mutually intelligible form of Anago without being one people until they started encountering other groups

ademijuwonlo:


I don't engage people who think they know but know nothing and still don't want to learn. It would be wrong of me to continue debating with you because People who are ignorant like you make argument based on their ignorance and use years of experience they have had in their ignorant states to bring intellectuals who have correct accounts and engage politely to their ignorant level. So, I don't engage with Ignorant and rude people. And besides this is not about age, so what is "imu jina soju" here? Say correct accounts of descendants of Oduduwa. Don't come here and argue who is older between you and I.Only people who are suffering from inferiority complex use age to win argument.
You are the one who speaks unintelligently and still adamantly saying what is not backed by any known history or facts. kindly, go back and learn history from the right source because you are not making any sense at all.

Yeah, I know they didn't identify as yoruba then but that's not what my argument with you is all about, we were on whether Ijebus were descendants of oduduwa(Omo oduduwa) and I used Yoruba for all Oduduwa' children because that's what they are now collectively known as.

aribisala0:

I do not like to upset sensitive people
I do not think I talked about age anywhere
Well Oduduwa's children has multiple meanings depending on the context and story.

The context here is of kings and Obas.

The other context is Oduduwa as the first man(Adam) or at least the "Yoruba" version.
This latter story is one that was written into some history books by uninformed "scholars" . It is silly and not really worthy of discourse

The former is Oduduwa as the founder of a dynasty of kings who are his children. Therefor by definition all his children are Omoba
This latter event is quite recent relatively. the current alaafin cite their genealogy going back to Oduduwa and contemporary traditions from Edo tell us this is about 1000 years old.

Yet we know that Ife has been settled for thousands of years ,the Yoruba language and Ifa are much older than Oduduwa so he cannot be "Adam"
Omo Odua may have sentimental pull but

IJEBU are not Omo Odua. Neither the people or the Monarchy.
The only way Ijebu can be Omo Odua is by the Adam theory

This idea has been resisted from day one but like a lie that is repeated often it starts looking like truth. It starts assuming the tyranny of Hisbah that say you cannot eat in public in Kano during Ramaddan

We are Omo Kaaro Ojire

NOT

Omo Oduduwa you may be omo Oduduwa but I am not though I identify with the SENTIMENT.

According to Ifa tradition the first man was Obatala NOT Oduduwa
His was the Original dynasty and that is probably what this guy is alluding to

Naturally the Yoruba history and tradition was transmitted by oral chanting and Obatala has been "photoshopped" out of the story by Oduduwa descendants

ademijuwonlo:


The Remos are from Iremo Quarters in Ile Ife, the people of Ijebu Igbo are from Ita Otutu Quarters in Ile Ife. The Ago Iwoye people have affinity with the Ondos (Ebumawe/Osemawe). Are these people not Ijebus ?.

I like the first part of your last paragraph and that's where the problem is. History was orally handed down and has been tampered with for selfish and political gains.

ademijuwonlo:


Really?

forgiveness:


You mean there was place like Hanjul, Mongolia, China etcetera?

ajl:
If you look at the name of this "jankariwo" oba, it say "Obateru". We know in Yorubaland names have meaning and often names are based on events, history, and human experience. "Obateru" is a name that compare kings to slaves which mean that "a king measures as much as a slave". What could have made his ancestors adopt such name?

This is my guess. His ancestors were likely to have been slaves at one point in the past and by some mean or events one of his ancestor that was a slave became a king. So, you can understand his mindset, he has serious issues with kings who became kings via birthright and he would always act like a rebel because in his mind he thinks "though my ancestors were slaves, we measure as much as any king irrespective of the history".

ajl:
If you look at the name of this "jankariwo" oba, it say "Obateru". We know in Yorubaland names have meaning and often names are based on events, history, and human experience. "Obateru" is a name that compare kings to slaves which mean that "a king measures as much as a slave". What could have made his ancestors adopt such name?

This is my guess. His ancestors were likely to have been slaves at one point in the past and by some mean or events one of his ancestor that was a slave became a king. So, you can understand his mindset, he has serious issues with kings who became kings via birthright and he would always act like a rebel because in his mind he thinks "though my ancestors were slaves, we measure as much as any king irrespective of the history".

Isoduwa:



This boy �� get sense now

Amujale:


Before those places ever have habitants. Depicting a period in both World and African history whereby the only people living on our planet are Africans.

50% of world history occurs exclusively within Africa. During these times, we've almost certainly already experience civilisation countless times already. i.e Ife, Oyo, Benin, Ashante, Ethiopia, Mali, Zimbabwe e.t.c

Most of the dates and periods the Eurocentrics and Asiatics fail to assert on most African artefacts and sacred sites are intentionally misconstrued to suit their version of world history.

Born2Breed:


I won't call you a liar but a miserable ignoramus. Your ignorance reeks to high heavens. Go study more about your distorted history. Engaging you is like talking to a wall.