Unity allows for limitless progress.

kunmiiii:


Same here, TAO11...when you have a minute, kindly do please, I'm really interested in that piece.

I hope I have been able to substantiate my claim with some evidence, proof and reason.

Bundaweber:




WRONG

Okay, you're right!

forgiveness:



We are waiting.

I hope I have been able to substantiate my claim with some evidence, proof and reason.

Amujale:


The Noah flood story is a falsity. There are numerous flood stories, i personally know of at least 25 different other ones. Most are only aware of the one the Jews saved for them.

Once those type of historical events are put into the proper context, it becomes clear that they shed further light on the climatic conditions that helped lay down the foundation of the continents that later became poplulated outside of Africa.

For instance, going through all the contents in the various flood stories mentioned above, under No condtion did Africa experience those versions.

I am not going to discuss flood stories exclusive to the African continent here; would instead concentrate on further a field.

Hopoi Myth flood stories.

Comox people – Legend of Queneesh

Anishinaabe - Turtle Island flood myth

Inuit, flood myth 

Nisqually - Myth Flood story

Mesoamerican flood myth.

Urcocari flood myth

Unu Pachakuti -Inca flood myth.

Sumerian - Myth flood stories

Gilgamesh - Myth flood stories

Yu the Great

Nuwa

e.t.c



Eskimo (Orowignarak, Alaska) - "A great inundation, together with an earthquake, swept the land so rapidly that only a few people escaped in their skin canoes to the tops of the highest mountains.

The truth is that apart from during the so called "big bang" and the same point in time; and or leading up to "Creation" real history has never ever made record of any instance whatsover, whereby there"s a globsl corroboration to suggest flood consumed the entire globe.

All of the foreigners and places outside the continent that reported their stories to us, either experienced these AWESOME phenomenon on their own or was contained within their geographical region.

With due respect sir, the Noah Flood story is an actual and true historical event.

What experts have disassembled is its universality.

Experts have come to the realization that it is a famous local deluge in the distant past in some corner of the world, rather than it been a universal cataclysm.

The existence of several flood myths among different ancient cultures of the world, all over the globe (including among the ancient people of Ife) does not undermine the Noah Flood account, rather it buttresses it. So say the experts.

We can explore this subject further if you're open to the duscussion.

Cc:

forgiveness
kunmiiii

TAO11:

...
Experts have come to the realization that it is a famous local deluge in the distant past in some corner of the world, rather than it been a universal..

Exactly one of the points i was trying to make, couldn't have put it any better.

All of the foreigners and places outside the continent that reported their stories to us, either experienced these AWESOME phenomenon on their own or was contained within their geographical region

.

Amujale:


Exactly one of the points in my post.

Okay. It appears we are on the same page then.

TAO11:


Okay. It appears we are on the same page then.

Exactly

TAO11:


I hope I have been able to substantiate my claim with some evidence, proof and reason.

Yes, you try...very worthy of note, the embolden was very enthralling because it was totally rebellious to the narration that has been propagated and accepted by a lot of people.

Nice one, thanks!

In other words, the "Yorubas" had a god of thunder centuries before Shango-Alaafin Oyo, or even his father Oranmiyan, was born. Shango Alaafin Oyo became named after this man because this son of Oranmiyan was thought to possess similar temperament as this great man who lingers in the memory of the "Yorubas".

kunmiiii:


Yes, you try...very worthy of note, the embolden was very enthralling because it was totally rebellious to the narration that has been propagated and accepted by a lot of people.

Nice one, thanks!

In other words, the "Yorubas" had a god of thunder centuries before Shango-Alaafin Oyo, or even his father Oranmiyan, was born. Shango Alaafin Oyo became named after this man because this son of Oranmiyan was thought to possess similar temperament as this great man who lingers in the memory of the "Yorubas".

Yes, you're right. It was indeed eye opening and at the same time comforting when I first stumbled upon that piece of information especially in the form of testimony from a prominent Shango worshipper and devotee.

Prior to accessing the information, I had personally worried long and hard about how a people as ancient and divinity conscious as the "Yorubas" will have to wait until only a thousand plus years ago before they come up with the notion of a god of thunder -- a frightening and inexplicable natural phenomenon as thunder for that matter.

Pan Africanist progressive policies.

Educate ourselves using our local languages.

Unity is great but it won't last if we don't keep tradition the way it was intended and has always been.. Btw, Alaafin was the only Emperor in the history of Yorubaland, the rest were kingdoms.

Amujale:


Unity is all about concession and compromise.

For instance, i 100% agree with the notion that says Obatala creates humanity in Ife. And i accept the Emperor Oduduwa message of unity.

Lets put our differences aside in pursuit of unity.

Its time to stand in togetherness as one. There is the need to move towrds a unifying position.

We need to be in the pursuit of unity at every given opportunity.

Alaafin is also Emperor during the Oyo Empire no doubt.

However, the discussion here is about us accepting the unifying message in Oduduwa. Its around about now that we pull together in the same progressive direction.

Unity first, by all means possible.

Empty epistle from a jobless swine. You must be insane if you expect me to answer the way you want. I repeat, answer your own question if you know what you are saying and then compare with my last post, but you would rather keep going in circle like a hamster on wheel.

To even think that Alaafin would bow to Ooni of all people makes you a cuckoo.

Your kind is the reason roadside bloggers and cheap columnists are still in business because you swallow headlines hook, line and sinker. Just about any picture can be captioned with title to hoodwink you cos you are gullible.

You do not expect Alaafin to respond to something as frivolous as that from the public, do you? You will still be one of those who would call him agbaya if he did all because you want to put Ooni where he doesn't belong.

No matter what, a dog will never become a horse. Araba ni baba, eni a ba l'aba ni baba, Alaafin is the paramount ruler or Yorubaland. Ooni is not an Oba but an Abore who is trying to upstage his superior but as they say, lala to r'oke ile lo nbo. You can't fake royalty, it will always end the way of the disgraced former Ooni.

Keep spewing your frustration out, I'll pick anything new in it and respond, and send the rest to your throat garbage disposal.

Since you are a picture whcre, I found you one where Ooni is bowing to emperor or Oba Amosun as normally seen in your twisted mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPiQCvgfyFA


,

TAO11:


Hahaha!

You're such an ignorant crook by presenting a circular argument wherein you attempted to prove that the Alaafin is the Baba, by first cunningly inherently assuming what you intended to prove, and then pretending to have proven it.

Also you didn't answer any of my questions anywhere.

My first question to you was:

"Who was the founder of Oyo Kingdom ...?".

No where did I mention any Oranmiyan or Oduduwa in my question. Why then are you been defensive already?

Your answer to my simple question was that:

Oranmiyan was a king in Oyo and Bini, and Oduduwa didn't found Ife.

Please how is this, by any stretch of the imagination, supposed to be an answer to any of the questions I asked you?

Moreover, your crooked self had noted two days ago that the reason why the Alaafin appears bowing his head, body, and soul in that picture is because he is older and weaker and he needs to appear as bowing his head, body, and soul down in order to be able to shake hands with the younger Ooni. Laughable excuse!

Today, on seeing how the Alaafin stood upright while shaking hands with someone else (i.e. Obasanjo), you quickly shifted your hypothesis from the earlier one, that he has to appear as bowing his head, body and soul when shaking hands with people, to a newer hypothesis that he is simply trying to support himself with the Ooni while trying to stand up from a seat or while trying to get down from a stage. Another laughable excuse.

Oga pick one hustle. But even if you do, none of your two contradictory hustle make any sense because the event was a public one and the media crews who captured the actual context already reported it appropriately in headlines as follows: UNCOMMON! Alaafin Of Oyo Bows To Ooni Of Ife. See heading of the image below.

And the palace of the Alaafin till this moment makes no attempt at any point in time to refute or debunk this media report, unlike how the palace often does when it disagrees with any public information concerning the monarch or Yorubas generally, as we have seen lately in the issues surrounding the pronouncement of the Ooni of Ife on the "historical relationship" between the Yorubas and the Igbos.

Also, do not forget to answer my three questions point by point. I'm still waiting and the questions remain:

1.) Who is the founder of Oyo kingdom according to whatever version of history you read?

2.) Where did this founder of Oyo kingdom hail from?

3.) And who is his father?

Lastly, making a claim is not the same thing as providing evidence to substantiate the claim. Those are two seperate things. Anyone can make any claim, but until it is substantiated it is no more than an empty claim.

So, until you provide evidence to substantiate your incoherent Abore - Oduduwa claim, your claim is as good as fiction

wowcatty:
Empty epistle from a jobless swine. You must be insane if you expect me to answer the way you want. I repeat, answer your own question if you know what you are saying and then compare with my last post, but you would rather keep going in circle like a hamster on wheel.

Your kind is the reason roadside bloggers and cheap columnists are still in business because you swallow headlines hook, line and sinker. Just about any picture can be captioned with title to hoodwink you cos you are gullible.

You do not expect Alaafin to respond to something as frivolous as that from the public, do you? You will still be one of those who would call him agbaya if he did all because you want to put Ooni where he doesn't belong.

No matter what a dog will never become a horse. Araba ni baba, eni a ba l'aba ni baba, Alaafin in the paramount ruler or Yorubaland. Ooni is not an Oba but an Abore who is trying to upstage his superior but as they say, lala to r'oke ile oo no. You can't fake royalty, it will always end the way of the disgraced former Ooni.

Keep spewing your frustration out, I'll pick anything new in it and respond, and send the rest to your throat garbage disposal.



,

An easy way to prove your point is to simply answer the questions I asked you, the prime of which was:

Who was the founder of Oyo kingdom?

Answering the question would have saved you the unneccessary stress of beating about the bush -- My qestion to you was a blank check.

I never asked you whether or not Oranmiyan was a king at Oyo and Bini. My question to you wasn't: Is Oranmiyan the founder of Oyo kingdom? Also, I never asked you whether or not Oduduwa was the founder of Ife.

In fact, I never even mentioned any name such as Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Bini, or Ife in any of my questions to you.

My prime qestion to you is simply that: Whosoever you think the founder of Oyo kingdom is, mention the name of that person and back it up with authoritative historical sources, I will then take it up with you from there.

So, contrary to your allegation, I wasn't asking you to provide your answer in my own way, I was simply asking you to answer the question I asked you and not some disconnected questions which I never asked you in the first place.

In other words, stop pretending to be a dummy.

And if your knowledge of history is so deficient that you have no answer to my question, then be man enough to confess it and I will help you with the answer (with evidence) while exploring the consequences of the answer.

Regarding the picture showing the Alaafin bowing to the Ooni, I am more obliged to trust the words of a media team which was present live at the event, which witnessed the context, which took the picture, and which reported (in words) exactly what the picture says; rather than trust the wishful thinking of a so-called wowcatty who all he does is simply sit his lazy ass in a corner of the creepy dark hole he lives in, from where he logs in to nairaland to spew contradictory garbage.

I wonder why you contradicted yourself back and forth regarding what the picture says if you really were so sure (from your remote creepy dark hole) about what went down at the event.

And lastly, your assumptive claim that the Ooni is not a king is simply no more that a figment of your wild and laughable imagination as long as you've consistently been UNABLE to substantiate the comedic claim with ANY evidence, proof, or reason let alone an authoritative academic one.

Regarding the YouTube link you just posted, firstly I see two people bowing to each other, with the former Executive Governor of Ogun Sate, Oba, Emperor Senator Ibikunle Amosun bowing even more and the Ooni reciprocating the respect and acknowledging the Governor's authority.

Secondly, just like you had noted earier that the Alaafin once bowed before President Buhari (without you having to refer to President Buhari as Oba or Emperor, smiles!); ----- and in relation to which I wondered if you are so slow, while I spoon fed you that the Alaafin bowed because he acknowledged the superiority of the President's authority and influence ----- the Ooni, likewise, bowed before Senator Amosun because the Governor commands more authority and influence than him in our modern western democratic setting.

Again, are you so slow that you really could not have been able to figure that out by yourself?

In sum, my questions to you which you've failed to answer for the umpteenth time remains:

1.) Who is the founder of Oyo kingdom according to whatever version of history you read?

2.) Where did this founder of Oyo kingdom hail from?

3.) And who is his father?

You probably understand the consequences and impact of the actual answers to these questions on your unsubstantiated blind argument, hence your consistent dancing around the question, as well as your persistent refusal to answer the question.

And the yadayada litany continues.Why not answer your own question if you know it and if they are different from mine? Asking questions you yourself don't know the answer to shows you are a hypocrite. You are still saying the same thing and will keep getting the same response.

Before you claim knowledge highground, you need to be on it first, you have no idea what you are talking about, just trashy sound bite-filled nonsense.

Yoruba ancient communities have always have Obas and then Abores, and you can't because of modern day shame of being looked down by different religions now bolt away from traditions of Ooni being a priest, usurping Alaafin, it will never work. You will just continue to divide Yoruba because some people can't sit by and watch such injustice take footholds. My great grandmother time knew Alaafin to be Oba and Ooni to be Abore, and no modern day phenomenon will change the fact that Awolowo just did his friend and fellow Orisa adherent Ooni Aderemi, a favor by passing over Alaafin to make him the governor general. That was just a bump in the road, not here to stay, the old Alaafin may be quite but a young one won't and that's when you will know that swapping positions is dangerous.

If Abore tradition is no longer needed, then scrap it, we already have emperical paramount Oba, alase ekeji Orisa Alaafin, not propaganda bootleg oba who has turned his shrine office to a palace just cos of envy of Alaafin.

Get your head out or your ass, your dumb propaganda will only work on those who don't know their history and willing to learn. Ww will never see Ooni as Oba let alone a senior Oba, he's Ooni, an Abore. Propaganda se ti.

TAO11:


An easy way to prove your point is to simply answer the questions I asked you, the prime of which was:

Who was the founder of Oyo kingdom?

Answering the question would have saved you the unneccessary stress of beating about the bush -- My qestion to you was a blank check.

I never asked you whether or not Oranmiyan was a king at Oyo and Bini. I never asked you whether or not Oranmiyan was the founder of Oyo. Also, I never asked you whether or not Oduduwa was the founder of Ife.

In fact, I never even mentioned any name such as Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, Bini, or Ife in any of my questions to you.

My prime qestion to you is simply that: Whosoever you think the founder of Oyo kingdom is, mention the name of that person and back it up with authoritative historical sources, I will then take it up with you from there.

So, contrary to your allegation, I wasn't asking you to provide your answer in my own way, I was simply asking you to answer the question I asked you and not some disconnected questions which I never asked you in the first place.

In other words, stop pretending to be a dummy.

And if your knowledge of history is so deficient that you have no answer to my question, then be man enough to confess it and I will help you with the answer (with evidence) while exploring the consequences of the answer.

Regarding the picture showing the Alaafin bowing to the Ooni, I am more obliged to trust the words of a media team which was present live at the event, which witnessed the context, which took the picture, and which reported (in words) exactly what the picture says; rather than trust the wishful thinking of a so-called wowcatty who all he does is simply sit his lazy ass in a corner of the creepy dark hole he lives in, from where he logs in to nairaland to spew contradictory garbage.

I wonder why you contradicted yourself back and forth regarding what the picture says if you really were so sure (from your remote creepy dark hole) about what went down at the event.

And lastly, your assumptive claim that the Ooni is not a king is simply no more that a figment of your wild and laughable imagination as long as you've consistently been UNABLE to substantiate the comedic claim with ANY evidence, proof, and reason let alone an authoritative academic one.

Regarding the YouTube link you just posted, firstly I see two people bowing to each other, with the former Executive Governor of Ogun Sate, Oba, Emperor Senator Ibikunle Amosun bowing even more.

Secondly, just like you had noted earier that the Alaafin once bowed before President Buhari (without you having to refer to President Buhari as Oba or Emperor, smiles!); ----- and in relation to which I wondered if you are so slow, while I spoon fed you that the Alaafin bowed because he acknowledged the superiority of the President's authority and influence ----- the Ooni, likewise, bowed before Senator Amosun because the Governor commands more authority and influence than him in our modern western democratic setting.

Again, are you so slow that you really could not have been able to figure that out by yourself?

In sum, my questions to you which you've failed to answer for the umpteenth time remains:

1.) Who is the founder of Oyo kingdom according to whatever version of history you read?

2.) Where did this founder of Oyo kingdom hail from?

3.) And who is his father?

You probably understand the consequences and impact of the actual answers to these questions on your unsubstantiated blind argument, hence your consistent dancing around the question, as well as your persistent refusal to answer the question.

samuk:


Benin got to know of Ife because Oduduwa (Imadoduwa in Benin language) was a Benin prince who was then the king at Ife. When Benin chiefs got to Ife to request him to come back to Benin after the death of the last Ogiso Owodo who was Oduduwa's father, the Benin spoke Benin to him and he understood because he was a Benin prince. He refused to return to Benin sitting old age and instead sent his son Oranmiyan.

How does a king without a kingdom sound in your ear? My earlier question was how did bini get to know about a hamlet in the heart of the forest? This you have not answered

wowcatty:
Unity is great but it won't last if we don't keep tradition the way it was intended and has always been. .

Now theres something we agree on.

wowcatty:


And the yadayada litany continues.Why not answer your own question if you know it and if they are different from mine? Asking questions you yourself don't know the answer to shows you are a hypocrite. You are still saying the same thing and will keep getting the same response.

Before you claim knowledge highground, you need to be on it first, you have no idea what you are talking about, just trashy sound bite-filled nonsense.

Yoruba ancient communities have always have Obas and then Abores, and you can't because of modern day shame of being looked down by different religions now bolt away from traditions of Ooni being a priest, usurping Alaafin, it will never work. You will just continue to divide Yoruba because some people can't sit by and watch such injustice take footholds. My great grandmother time knew Alaafin to be Oba and Ooni to be Abore, and no modern day phenomenon will change the fact that Awolowo just did his friend and fellow Orisa adherent Ooni Aderemi, a favor by passing over Alaafin to make him the governor general. That was just a bump in the road, not here to stay, the old Alaafin may be quite but a young one won't and that's when you will know that swapping positions is dangerous.

If Abore tradition is no longer needed, then scrap it, we already have emperical paramount Oba, alase ekeji Orisa Alaafin, not propaganda bootleg oba who has turned his shrine office to a palace just cos of envy of Alaafin.

Get your head out or your ass, your dumb propaganda will only work on those who don't know their history and willing to learn. Ww will never see Ooni as Oba let alone a senior Oba, he's Ooni, an Abore. Propaganda se ti.

Again, all you did was just simply make long bogus claims.

You did not substantiate your claim (that Ooni was not a king) with ANY evidence, reference material, proof, or reason, let alone an authoritative and academic one.

Boy, you need to be aware that to make a claim is one thing, while to substantiate the claim is another separate thing. Stop getting these two separate things mixed up. Anyone can make any wild and comedic claim.

I can, for example, make a long wringle claim to the effect that wowcatty is a b@stard. Will you then agree that my claim is true just simply because I made the claim (i.e. without any substantiation)?

Simply making a claim doesn't automatically make it a true claim. Provide your authoritative historical reference.

Also, you asked whether my answer to my own question is different from yours.

In respect of your failed attempt to be cunning, you should be reminded that you've unfortunately ran out of luck because of the person you're dealing with at the moment. Lol!

Your answers were to questions I never asked you, so how then does the issue of comparing our answers even come up?

I had asked you the simple straight forward question:

Who was the founder of Oyo kingdom?

And the unrelated answer you returned with was that:

Oranmiyan was not the founder of Oyo kingdom

How in your clogged mind is that supoosed to be even remotely connected to the question I asked you, let alone comparing it with my answer? Lol!

My question remains that:

Whoever the founder of Oyo kingdom is, who is that person -- what is his name?

Does this straightforward question appear to you to be some incomprehensible rocket science?

It is understandable if you do not posses enough knowledge of history to be able to answer the question.

Make your confession if that is your case (it's nothing to be ashamed about), and I will provide the answer, and then we may continue the discussion from there by examining the consequences of the answer.

Peace

samuk:


It is accepted by but the Yoruba and Benin that the Benin requested for Oduduwa to send a son to Benin as king.

The Benin believe that this was done because Oduduwa himself is was their prince. The Yoruba dispute this.

Oduduwa son only stayed in Benin briefly before going to establish Oyo.

Please explain why the Benin people who already established a kingship system (Ogiso dynasty) spanning over 1000 years with over 32 Ogisos will suddenly wake up and request for a foreign ruler who they are not related to.

Just to correct your assertion, no Oba of Benin sees any other Oba as superior to him, the Obas of Benin or the Ogiso (kings from heaven/sky) before them has always be regarded as second to God himself or God's representative on earth, it was so for centuries before Oduduwa arrived Ife. All Benin kings have always styled themselves as Kings from the Sky or God Kings (Ogiso), so there is no way they could have see the Ooni as a superior.

To begin, please note that my reply here to your challenge and assertions is not to push for any supremacy battle.

I will simply be presenting my argument on the basis of established evidence, proof, and reason, and not on the basis of any personal wishful blank claims.

I really hope that your heart will be broad enough to embrace the conclusions I will be drawing, on the basis of the authoritative academic references I will be adducing, without having to pre-frame me on the basis of the difference in our tribal/ethnic affiliation.

You requested that I should explain why the Edos who had an established 'indigenous' system of king-ship will then at some point in time suddenly request to be ruled by a foreign unrelated kingdom.

In relation to this challenge, I will address the two key aspects which I have boldened viz. (1) Why the Edos abandoned their own 'indigenous' system, and (2) Why the Edos requested to be ruled by an 'unrelated kingdom'.

Regarding the first aspect, it suffices to cite you the background to why the Edos abandoned their own 'indigenous' system (i.e. the Ogiso system).

The Ogiso system was abandoned by the Edos at a point in time when the system experienced its natural failure and hence collapse. The following is some of the details as contained in diverse authoritative sources on Bini history:

The last Ogiso (or Sky-King) whose name is Owodo (i.e. Ogiso Owodo) was banished from the land because his rule witnessed excessive mis-administration, failure and anxiety. However, Evinan who succeeded him as an administrator during the period of interregnum sought to perpetuate his own lineage by appointing his own son, Ogiamwen, as his successor (contrary to prior agreement by the people). The people, however, resisted them and instead would rather prefer to resort to being ruled by a wise prince from among their Olukumi kin* at Uhe.

[Refer, for example, to: Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations.

See also: J. U. Egharevba: A Short History of Benin, 1953 (2d ed.: Benin City), among other authoritative sources.]

Note: * (A creation myth of the Edos actually has it that the Edos are kins with the Ifès. This will be explored in some more details in due course).


Regarding the second aspect of your challenge which relates to your view that the ancient Ifès are unrelated to the ancient Edos, this view is actually terribly mistaken and in blatant contradiction to an ancient Edo tradition on the Edos origin mythology.

According to this Edo origin mythology, it is believed that a certain Idu (the supposed progenitor of the Edos) and a certain Olukumi (the supposed progenitor of the Ifès) are brothers who were both descended from a certain Iso (Sky) who himself was descended from Osanobua himself.

This tradition continues that these two brothers (i.e. Idu and Olukumi) originally both lived together in Uhe (Ifè) before they then left to proceed to found another establishment viz. Igodomigodo (Bini).

[Refer to: Michael Crowder: The Story of Nigeria, pp 63. for details.]

The foregoing Edo tradition is further augmented by more solid historical documentation in the works of experts like Amaury Talbot, J. U. Egharevba, Dmitri M. Bondarenko among others, although there is some inconsequent slight discrepancy in details from one expert to the other, as well as some varying degree of details. Their conclusions, however, are in the same direction.

Talbot, who is the first ever 19th-century expert on the Ife-Benin relationship, notes that:

" According to tradition the first king of the country was Igudu (i.e. Igodo, aka Obagodo) ... A Yoruba Chief, named Erhe, stated to be the Awgenni of Ufe ("in Yoruba Awni of Ife" ), arrived with a small following, but did not gain much power. His son Ogiso also made little headway and later returned to Ife ... c. 1300 ."

[Refer to: P. Amaury Talbot: The Peoples of Southern Nigeria, 1926 (London), Vol. I, pp. 153.]

In a similar vein, Egharevba also writes about the Ogiso as being originally from Uhe (Ife). He notes:

" Many, many years ago, Odua ["Oduduwa"] or Uhe ["Ile-Ife"] the father and progenitor of the Yoruba Kings sent his eldest son Obagodo --- who took the title of Ogiso --- with a large retinue all the way from Uhe to found a Kingdom in this part of the world. At the moment of his departure, his father gave him a charm in the form of a snail shell containing some earth to invest him with absolute power and right over the lands that should come under his sway. Hence the power and right ever-since to the present day of every reigning Oba of Bini as the lord and owner of the land. The snail shell of earth was afterwards modelled in brass and preserved in the Royal Palace as a memorial and evidence of the fact to posterity ."

[Refer to: J. U. Egharevba: A Short History of Benin,1936 (1st ed.: Lagos), pp. 7-10.]

Likewise, Peter Roese and Dmitri M. Bondarenko of the Institute for African Studies in the Russian Academy of Sciences have noted in a more emphatic form that the first three Ogisos of Igodomigodo were emissaries, from the Ooni of Ife, on a mission to establish a monarchy in Igodomigodo.

The following are the precise words of Dmitri M. Bondarenko in the paper entitled The Benin Kingdom (13th – 19th Centuries) as a Megacommunity:

"The third Ogiso became the last in their Yoruba, Ife line. He returned to Ife but by that time the very institution of the supreme supra-chiefdom ruler had already been established firmly enough in Benin, disregarding its outside origin and correspondence to the level of sociopolitical organization, not achieved by the Bini yet ."

These foregoing scholarly statements from the most established and world renowned experts in the field of Ife-Bini relationship, as well as the Edos own origin mythology tradition go to establish beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt that there is some connection, of blood between the Edos and the Ifès, which goes way beyond even Oranmiyan and the Eweka dynasty, extending all the way to the very foundations of the Ogiso dynasty.

The Edos and the Ifès are therefore, on the basis of authoritative academic scholarship (rather than from a personal emotional standpoint), NOT unrelated as has been demonstrated that the Ogisos themselves (at least the first couple of them) were originally from Uhe (Ile-Ife).



In light of the foregoing, do I still need to separately address your assertion that "no Oba of Benin sees any other Oba as superior to him"?

Anyways, for the sake of comprehensiveness and more clarity (and in addition to the foregoing evidenced-based argument which shows the apparent overlordship of the Oghene N' Uhe over Edo land and its monarchy forms) the kings of Bini kingdom have always regarded the rulers of Ife as their overlord.

Is this just my wishful thinking? No! This is the conclusion reached, again and again, by reputable and world renowned indigenous and western experts who have devoted their careers to studying the Ife-Benin relationship.

For example, on the introduction of bronze casting to Benin by Oba Oguola, Margaret Plass confirms, in the article entitled The Art of Benin: An Evaluation Based on Discussions with William Fagg, that:

"... the early Oba Oguola --- supposed to have reigned about A.D. 1280 --- applied to his spiritual OVERLORD, the Oni of Ife, for the services of a bronze founder to teach his people to make the memorial bronzes formerly imported from Ife, that they might be made in Benin. The memory of that great craftsman, Igue-Igha, sent from Ife to teach that Bini is still venerated at his shrine at the house of Chief Ine in the Street of Brass Casters."

[see also: Egharevba, 1936, pp. 18.]

You may also find the following BBC/British Museum documentary at the YouTube link below very helpful.

It is stated therein very clearly and emphatically that the kings of Bini kingdom paid homage to Ile-Ife.

These are the conclusions of the world's most authoritative experts on the subject, not my personal 'Yorubaish' opinion.


Refer specifically to time 47:16 to time 49:00.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQY_Jd--pwI&t=2070s

There is much more evidence, but I believe all the foregoing are sufficient to start a discussion.

Peace!

Cc:
Amujale
kunmiiii
Ollaxworld

I have been avoiding making comments on social media and nairaland especially. I am well aware of the ethnic bigotry which goes on on nairaland. I am also aware of the lack of truthfulness of many commentators in nairaland. The person who comments above is a well known Yoruba liar who has spent years on nairaland perfecting his lies. I have engaged him several times and challenged him to provide proof for his claims. He has never been able to prove any of his claims. All his claims are yorubacentric propaganda aiming at claiming Benin heritage as a Yoruba belonging. I am saddened that some of my Edo brothers have chosen to engage this "tao" and other Yoruba history thieves into the fictional world of oduduwa and oranmiyan and ogisos. For the avoiding of any doubt those are mere stories like that of father christmas, Hercules, or even batman. I would forgive a child for believing such stories, but not a so called educated adult. But the level of nigerian education (I studied and live in France ) is so deplorable that you Nigerians are very dumb ... That is why Yoruba fake history peddlers go on almost unchallenged and even recently the ooni of ife tried to rewrite the history of the Igbo to magically make them originate from ife. The Yoruba national sports seems to be the rewriting of other peoples history.

History is not a mere story relating things you claim took place a long time ago. That is myth, not history.
History is about events which were writen down by eyewitnesses and which we can read today. That is history. Yoruba have almost no precolonial history because nobody saw them as important enough to write about them, which is why the main purpose of the Yoruba today is to rewrite their "history" and insert themselves in the history of others like the Edo.
The Edo who gave the name of their kingdom to the Bight of Benin and to Benin republic and whose royal art is exposed in the most important museums in western Europe and american.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2Tac1gNPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8flCwvoAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duy5bhrRkqs

Someone should help me locate bight of ife or bight of Yoruba... People should accept facts and stop trying to rewrite history. Benin empire was great and was the main power in the region now referred to as southern Nigeria. Accept this and move on with your lives. You can not change the passed and you can't create history. You can only change the future.

prolog311:
I have been avoiding making comments on social media and nairaland especially. I am well aware of the ethnic bigotry which goes on on nairaland. I am also aware of the lack of truthfulness of many commentators in nairaland. The person who comments above is a well known Yoruba liar who has spent years on nairaland perfecting his lies. I have engaged him several times and challenged him to provide proof for his claims. He has never been able to prove any of his claims. All his claims are yorubacentric propaganda aiming at claiming Benin heritage as a Yoruba belonging. I am saddened that some of my Edo brothers have chosen to engage this "tao" and other Yoruba history thieves into the fictional world of oduduwa and oranmiyan and ogisos. For the avoiding of any doubt those are mere stories like that of father christmas, Hercules, or even batman. I would forgive a child for believing such stories, but not a so called educated adult. But the level of nigerian education (I studied and live in France ) is so deplorable that you Nigerians are very dumb ... That is why Yoruba fake history peddlers go on almost unchallenged and even recently the ooni of ife tried to rewrite the history of the Igbo to magically make them originate from ife. The Yoruba national sports seems to be the rewriting of other peoples history.

Strawman argument. The guy provided first rate references, yet you say he provided no evidence.

You are the one being emotional here. Try to be logical.

Every objective historical account points to the fact that Yorubas helped establish the Benin Kingdom. Yorubas are the most civilized ethnic group in Africa. It makes sense that we exported the civilization to other parts of Africa.

oduademonest:

Yorubas are the most civilized ethnic group in Africa

You exposed yourself as an emotional ethnic bigot with this comment. Discussing further with you is futile.

prolog311:
I have been avoiding making comments on social media and nairaland especially. I am well aware of the ethnic bigotry which goes on on nairaland. I am also aware of the lack of truthfulness of many commentators in nairaland. The person who comments above is a well known Yoruba liar who has spent years on nairaland perfecting his lies. I have engaged him several times and challenged him to provide proof for his claims. He has never been able to prove any of his claims. All his claims are yorubacentric propaganda aiming at claiming Benin heritage as a Yoruba belonging. I am saddened that some of my Edo brothers have chosen to engage this "tao" and other Yoruba history thieves into the fictional world of oduduwa and oranmiyan and ogisos. For the avoiding of any doubt those are mere stories like that of father christmas. I would forgive a child for believing such stories, but not a so called educated adult. But the level of nigerian education (I studied and live in France ) is so deplorable that you Nigerians are very dumb ... That is why Yoruba fake history peddlers go on almost unchallenged and even recently the ooni of ife tried to rewrite the history of the Igbo to magically make them originate from ife. The Yoruba national sports seems to be the rewriting of other peoples history.

You see,there is no big deal if Oshin(Odudua) came from Benin if the information on ground support such but you people are actually truth twisters in Igodomigodo. The reality is that Oba Benin is a Yoruba man's descendant,which made him a foreigner in Igodomigodo,and a part of the land Oranmiyan created known as ulé benu-bena-binu-bina( anger land).Despite this, a treaty was established to differrentiate the stranger and the aborigine.To buttress more kindly read the lawsuit against Oba Benin as he is a stranger.


Recent Litigation Between OGISO DYNASTY And ODUDUA DYNASTY IN BENIN Kingdom


The Ogiso dynasty,whose descendants are the Ogiamen have these evidence to share at the supreme court of Nigeria which clearly shows the power tussle between they, the descendants of Ogiso versus Oba Eweka1 of Benin land and descendants who are descendants of Oranmiyan from Ufe land, who are strangers in Benin and remained odudua descendants of Yoruba origin from UleIfe.... “The original history has it that the Ogiso group migrated from Ife forest land". Ogiso dynasty which ”initially belonged to Obatala controlled group, was successfully subjugated and subsumed to Odudua authority by the Royal Troupe from the ancient UFE land , led by Prince Oranmiyan in the then 11th/12th century."

The case:
There was a case involving the self acclaimed Ogiamen imperial Majesty , Rich Arisco Osemwengie JP OGISO FAMILY AND OBA OF BENIN TRADITIONAL COUNCIL,at the adoption of Briefs in the supreme court of Nigeria. Obviously one can clearly call it a dangerous sacrilegious display against the oba of Benin at the Supreme Court premises in Abuja. But whatever happened, every born descendants have right to protect their family heritage and dignity.

At the Supreme court in Abuja;
Justice Jimi Olukayode of Appeal Court in his Judgement in the Appeal Case No: CA/B/99/2016, dated Wednesday 16th Day of November 2016 ruled that : ‘It is my humble view that the Ogiamen of Benin Chieftaincy is one of the recognised instruments (M.S.L.N 37 of 1968).

The Ogiso/Ogiamen Royal Dynasty stool came into existence in 9th century AD. 300 Years after, in 12th Century AD ,when Obaship was forcefully introduced by Ule Ufe via the MEMORABLE EKIOKPAGHA TREATY. In 1979,Oba Erediauwa singlehandedly and secretly used the instrumentality of government at his disposal WITHOUT the KNOWLEDGE OF THE ABORIGINE BENIN and consultation with THE GREAT OGIAMEN ROYAL FAMILY, which is provided for, under the provision of section 5(1) & (2) and section 27(1) of the traditional Rulers and chiefs Law of 1979 and section 36 of the constitution of the federal Republic of Nigeria in 1999 as ammended,included the Ogiamen Royal stool that has already been gazetted as a TRADITIONAL RULER(M.S.L.N 37 of 1968) by the Mid-western state of Nigeria into the repealed chiefs Law(Cap 37) of the traditional Rulers and Chiefs Edicts of 1979,FIVE MONTH after, he, OBA EREDIAUWA had REENACTED THE EKIOKPAGHA TREATY with OGIAMEN OSAROBO OKUONGHAE before the confirmation by the Edo state government as the new Oba of Benin kingdom, which only came to our Court 1,Benin City, in which our Majesty and chief Patrick Osabuohien,the oliha of utatan,Benin kingdom were charged for illegal installation and remanded to OKO PRISON for almost TWO months before both of them were allowed BAIL ,that led to the case in the SUPREME COURT.

Inspite of this, the Appeal Court Ruled that the OGIAMEN ROYAL FAMILY:
WENT TO SLEEP SINCE 1979 AND WOKE UP IN 2015,which is over 37 years after the cause of action arose.

Went to sleep Indeed! For the action against the aborigine of BENIN AND OGIAMEN ROYAL DYNASTY which OBA EREDIAUWA KEPT SECRET TO HIMSELF ALONE SINCE 1979 ,which we did not know until September 2015 and again, the COURT of APPEAL ruled that the Ogiamen Royal Dynasty is therefore guilty of inordinate delay in bringing the action to ventilate their grievances.However, despite this pronouncement,the judgement of Justice Olukayode Baba and the letter WRITTEN TO US by Oba EREDIUWA, Ref:BTC/A7/3/Vol.1x/205, dated March 15th 2016 in which Oba EREDIUWA recognised UTANTAN ,BENIN KINGDOM AND OGIAMEN ROYAL STOOL GAZETTED (M.S.L.N 37 of 1979) as a DISTINCT ROYAL STOOL .


Thus, Oba Benin wrote a letter to acknowledged that he is a stranger,in idu/Igodomigodo which is reenacted through Okiokopagha Treaty.

cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzHDzV1jZ1U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDzU7Ega2R8

prolog311:
You exposed yourself as an emotional ethnic bigot with this comment. Discussing further with you is futile.

The Yoruba of Western Nigeria have large, dense, permanent settlements, based upon farming rather than upon industrialization, the pattern of which is traditional rather than an outgrowth of acculturation. They are undoubtedly the most urban of all African peoples, the percentage living in large communities being comparable to that in European nations.

Earlier historical materials can be found in the accounts of Benin, to the east, and Dahomey, to the west, which indicate that both were subject to some measure of political control by Yoruba cities as early as 200-500 years ago.

Source:
Urbanization Among the Yoruba
Author(s): William Bascom
Source: American Journal of Sociology, Vol. 60, No. 5, World Urbanism (Mar., 1955), pp.
446-454
Published by: The University of Chicago Press
Accessed: 29-04-2019 02:52 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPKo0M_vEN8

I would love to see this show, hopefully the uk will still be part of EU by then