# Introduction
 
Tarawih as per Ahlu as-Sunnah (Sunni)’s belief and practice simply refer to supererogatory prayer (nawafil) prayed at night (immediately or some munutes) after salat al-Ishai during the holy month of Ramadan.
 
The majority’s view in the Sunni world is that it is a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet. Indeed, this claim is what makes it highly controversial.


# Genesis of Tarawih

Naturally, the Prophet used to observe Qiyam al-layl (late night payer) after being made obligatory for him by his Lord (see: Surat al-Isra:79; sura al-Muzammil: 1- 4). While this special prayer was only enjoined and made obligatory upon the Prophet, it is optional for his Ummah (followers, community). This was the reason why the Prophet used to pray it alone in the middle of the night.

During the holy month of Ramadan, the Prophet continued this routine act of praying the obligatory Qiyam al-layl. Alas, an incident occurred whereby certain number of his companions found him praying and stood behind him to pray (without his verbal approval for 3 days).

Prophet later disbanded the congregations urging them to pray the supererogatory prayer individually. In fact, he retorted at a point:

 " You are still insisting (on your deed, i.e. Tarawih prayer in the mosque in congregations) that I thought that this prayer (Tarawih) might become obligatory on you.  SO YOU PEOPLE, OFFER THIS PRAYER AT YOUR HOMES, FOR THE BEST PRAYER OF A PERSON IS THE ONE WHICH HE OFFERS AT HOME, EXCEPT THE COMPULSORY  (CONGREGATIONAL) PRAYERS".

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6113
In-book reference : Book 78, Hadith 140
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 134
 https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/78/140



# CALIPH UMAR'S INVENTION

A decade (or more) after the death of the Prophet, the second Caliph Umar ibn al-khattab  (after salat al-Ishai) invented what is today known and practice as "tarawih".

When the Caliph saw people praying individually inside the mosque, he gathered them under one Imam; hence, tarawih started. Then, he said:

 "What an excellent BID’A (i.e. innovation in religion) THIS IS; BUT the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.”

 Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2010
In-book reference : Book 31, Hadith 3
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 32, Hadith 227
 https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/31/3


And the reporter further interpret the saying of the Caliph to bury any misinterpretation. The reporter says, “He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night”.


 Observe, the Caliph never called this action of his “Sunnah of the Prophet”, rather he called it what it is “Bid’ah (innovation in religion).  To further emphasis it is Bid’ah, he highlighted that the Sunnah of the Prophet (where you observe the qiyam al-layl  in the middle of the night after waking up from sleep) is far better than what he invented (where under his instructions people observed the prayer in congregations before it’s specified time).

This statement of the Caliph never deter the Ahlu as-Sunnah from all sort of excuses: that he did not meant BID'AH, and that what he did was to revive the "Sunnah" of the Prophet which he (the Prophet) feared might turned obligatory.

HOW THE PROPHET ACTUALLY OBSERVED THE PURPORTED TARAWIH

Interestingly, contrary the aforementioned hadiths, there are few other Ahlu as-Sunnah’s hadith which suggested that the Prophet did led Qiyam al-layl in congregation on another occasion but with few stringent conditions. 

Ahlu as-Sunnah observe their tarawih for 29 or 30 nights (which starts immediately or some minutes after salat al-Ishai) in congregations contrary to what the report said on how the Prophet observed it.

Imam Ibn Khuzaymah documents:

Narrated Nu’aym b. Ziyad Abu Talhah al-Anmari:



I heard al-Nu’man b. Bashir saying on the pulpit of Hims: “We prayed qiyam al-layl with the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, in the month of Ramadan, on the 23rd night till one-third of the night. Then, we prayed qiyam al-layl with him on the 25th night till midnight. Then, we prayed qiyam al-layl with him on the 27th night till we thought that we would miss al-falah; and we used to call it the suhur (i.e. early morning meal in Ramadan).

Shaykh al-A’zami says: Its chain is hasan.


Ibn Khuzaymah also documents:

 Narrated Jubayr b. Nufayr al-Hadrami, from Abu Dharr:

“We fasted along with the Prophet, peace be upon him, in Ramadan, and he did NOT lead us in qiyam al-layl until the 23rd night of the month. He led us in qiyam al-layl until one-third of the night passed. Then, he did not lead us in qiyam al-layl on the 24th night, and he led us in qiyam al-layl on the 25th night until midnight passed. So, I said, “O Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, if only we could carry on for the rest of this night of ours.” He said: “Whosoever does qiyam al-layl with the Imām until he finishes, the qiyam of a whole night will be written for him.” Then, he did not lead us in prayer until the 27th night of the month. So, he led us in qiyam al-layl on the 27th night and he gathered his family and his wives. He led us in qiyam al-layl until we feared that we would miss al-falah.” I said: “What is al-falah.” He said: “The suhur.”[5]

Shaykh al-A’zami comments: Its chain is sahih.

So, the Prophet only led the Sahabah in qiyam al-layl on the 23rd, 25th and 27th nights of Ramadan. He did NOT lead them on any other night. Imam Ibn Khuzaymah himself mentions this point when he says:


"The Prophet, peace be upon him, limited praying qiyam al-layl with the people to only these three nights because of the presence of Laylat al-Qadr among them."


Moreover, we understand from the second hadith above that the phrase “Whosoever does qiyam al layl with the Imam until he finishes, the qiyam of a whole night will be written for him” – which Salafis often quote to justify tarawih – relates only to those three nights and nothing else.

Thus, what are the characteristics of the night prayers which the Messenger performed with the Sahabah? Here they are:

i. Reason: To attain Laylat al-Qadr.

ii. Type: Tahajjud (in line with the ḥadīth of al-Hajjaj b. ‘Amr al-Ansari, which indicates that the Messenger only prayed tahajjud in the nights and nothing else).

iii. Amount: 8 rak’ahs (according to an authentic Sunni hadith of Umm al-Muminin ‘Aishah; then, al-shaf’ and al-witr, making it 11 rak’at in total)[6].

iv. Method: Congregational.

v. Period: 23rd night of Ramadan till after one-third of the night; 25th night till after midnight; and 27th night till the time of suhur.


 vi. Place: Mosque.


With these facts in mind, please pay close attention to these words of Salafi Shaykh al-‘Uthaymin:

"Therefore, brothers: No act of ‘ibadah is accepted except with the fulfilment of two fundamental conditions: one of them is sincerity to Allah, and the other is imitation of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. We already mentioned the proofs for that. We also say: verily, the imitation (of the Prophet) cannot be achieved except if it complies with the Divine Law in six matters, and they are: the reason, the type, the amount, the method, the period, and the place."[7]

Another Salafi scholar, Shaykh Dr. Muhammad b. Sa’id Raslan al-Makki, in his fatwa reiterates these six criteria also.[8]

Let us compare this with what the Ahlu Sunnah and Salafi observe today :

i. Reason: the second Caliph established it (or whatever the reason is but obviously it is  not to seek Laylat al-Qadr, as laylat al-Qadr is only observed during 3 aforementioned nights).
ii. Type: Tarawih (in line with the ḥadīth of Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari) established by the Caliph
iii. Amount: Between 10 - 20 rak’ahs excluding shaf’ and al-witr.
iv. Method: Congregational.
v. Period: the whole night of Ramadan (29 or 30 nights), immediately or some minutes after salat al- Ishai.
vi. Place: Mosque.
We ask how is this practice replicate the Prophet’s sunnah?

Conclusion
It is crystal clear the Prophet never observed qiyam al-layl or tarawih immediately or some minutes after salat al-Ishai. Likewise, he never offered it in congregations for 29 or 30 nights of Ramadan. Rather he constantly offered his supererogatory prayer (qiyam al-layl) individually in the middle of the night with the exception of 23rd, 25th and 27th nights which he offered in congregations. This is what is proven in line with the traditions of Ahlu as-Sunnah. Therefore, it is either the Ahlu as-Sunnah follows this practice of the Prophet or continue with the Bid’at (innovation in religion) established by the Caliph Umar ibn al-khattab. Obviously the latter cannot be smuggled into the first.



REFERENCES

 4. Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah [maktab al-islami, Beirut, 1390 H/1970], vol. 3, p. 337, hadith 2204
http://islamport.com/d/1/mtn/1/73/2692.html

5. Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah [maktab al-islami, Beirut, 1390 H/1970], vol. 3, p. 337, hadith 2206
http://islamport.com/d/1/mtn/1/73/2692.html

6. Narrated Abu Salama bin `Abdur Rahman:

that he asked `Aisha "How was the prayer of Allah’s Messenger (s) in Ramadan?" She replied, "He did not pray more than eleven rak`at in Ramadan or in any other month. He used to pray four rak`at ---- let alone their beauty and length----and then he would pray four ----let alone their beauty and length ---- and then he would pray three rak`at (witr)." She added, "I asked, O Allah’s Messenger (s)! Do you sleep before praying the witr? He replied, O `Aisha! My eyes sleep but my heart does not sleep."

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2013
In-book reference : Book 31, Hadith 6
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 32, Hadith 230
https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/31

7. Source: Majmū’ Fatāwā wa Rasāil, vol. 7, p. 337
http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-12293/page-2125

8. http://www.rslan.com/tafre31/Mawoled.php


NOTE: This post is the abridged version of the full paper titled "Discussion on tarawih" written by same author and it can be downloaded on pdf here:

https://independent.academia.edu/OlawaleAbdulwasi

Just like the OON, the Shiites has come again to deter people from the path of Sunnah!

Anyways! The attack will always come from them. A pig will never rest till it brings the other animal in to its own mess! Ahl-Sunnah wal Jama'a will always surpass you all.

The Prophet prayed Tarawih three times alone and people joined him. On the fourth night he refused to come out to tarawih because he was afraid the optional prayer will be made obligatory!

After the death of the Prophet, no act of worship can became obligatory hence Umar revived this Sunnah!

The honorable liar selectively choose hadiths and athar from Ahl-Sunnah Scholars that suite him to deceive unsuspecting Muslims!


Al-Bukhaari (2010) narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn ‘Abd al-Qaari’ that he said: I went out with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) one night in Ramadan to the mosque, where we saw the people in scattered groups, one man praying by himself, and another man praying with a group of people following his prayer. ‘Umar said: I think that if I unite these people behind one reciter, it will be better. Then he decided to do that, so he united them behind Ubayy ibn Ka‘b. Then I went out with him on another night, and the people were all praying behind their reciter. ‘Umar said: What a good innovation this is, but what they sleep and miss is better than what they are doing – referring to prayer at the end of the night, whereas the people were praying qiyaam at the beginning of the night.

With regard to ‘Umar’s words “what a good innovation (bid‘ah) this is”, what he meant by calling it an innovation was in the linguistic sense, i.e., it was something new that the people had never done before.

That was because gathering the people in Ramadan every night behind one imam on a continual and organised basis had not been done before. Therefore the context indicates that what was meant was the linguistic meaning, and he did not mean it in the technical shar‘i sense, which means introducing something into the religion that is not part of it, whilst attributing it to the religion. Taraweeh prayer is part of the religion and is something that is prescribed and encouraged; similarly, offering this prayer in congregation is also encouraged and recommended, and the basis for that is proven in the actions and words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

The scholars have stated that:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This is a description in linguistic terms, not in a technical shar‘i sense. That is because the word innovation (bid‘ah), in linguistic terms, includes everything that is introduced without precedent.

With regard to innovation (bid‘ah) in the technical, shar‘i sense, this refers to something for which there is no shar‘i evidence.

If the words of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) indicate that something is recommended or obligatory after his death, or is indicated in general terms, even though it was not done until after his death – such as the book of charity [a document that listed the rates of zakaah on livestock] that Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) issued – then doing that action after his death may correctly be called an innovation in linguistic terms, because it was something new.

In fact the very religion that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) brought may be called an innovation and may be called something new in linguistic terms, as the envoys of Quraysh said to the Negus (ruler of Abyssinia) concerning the companions of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) who migrated to Abyssinia: These people left the religion of their forefathers and did not enter the religion of the King [i.e., Christianity]; rather they brought an innovated religion that is not known.

Moreover, a deed which is supported by the Qur’an and Sunnah is not an innovation in shar‘i terms, even if it may be described as an innovation in linguistic terms. The word innovation is more general in meaning in the linguistic sense than in the technical shar‘i sense.

It is known that the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), “Every innovation is a going astray,” do not refer to every new thing that is done. In fact the religion of Islam – and indeed every religion brought by the Messengers – was a new thing. Rather what he meant is what is newly introduced of deeds (in the religion) that were not prescribed by him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

As that is the case, they used to pray the qiyaam of Ramadan (i.e., Taraweeh) at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) both in congregation and individually. He said to them on the third or fourth night, when they gathered: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to join you except the fact that I would not like it to be made obligatory for you. So pray in your houses, for the best prayer a man can offer is in his house, except the prescribed obligatory prayers.”

So he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) explained the reason why he did not come out (to lead them in Taraweeh prayers), which was the fear that it might be made obligatory. Thus it is known that the reason for his coming out to join them was still valid, and that were it not for the fear of it being made obligatory, he would have come out to join them.

But at the time of ‘Umar’s caliphate, he (may Allah be pleased with him) united them behind a single reciter and put lamps in the mosque. This way of doing it – which was to gather in the mosque behind a single imam, with lamps in the mosque – was something that they had not done before, hence it was called an innovation, because it may be described as such in linguistic terms, but it was not an innovation in shar‘i terms, because the Sunnah indicates that it was a righteous deed, were it not for the fear that it might be made obligatory. Fear that it might be made obligatory ceased with the death of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), so there was no longer any reason not to do it.

End quote from Iqtida’ as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem (2/95-97)

Ibn Rajab (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

With regard to what was said by some of the earlier generations about regarding some innovations as good, that refers to innovation in the linguistic sense, not in the technical shar‘i sense. An example of that is what ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, when he united the people in praying qiyaam in Ramadan behind a single imam in the mosque; when he came out and saw the people praying in that manner, he said: What a good innovation this is. And it was narrated from him that he said: If this is an innovation, then what a good innovation. What he meant was that this deed had not been done in this manner before this time, but it had a basis in Islamic teaching that may be referred to, such as the fact that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) used to encourage and urge people to pray qiyaam in Ramadan. At his time, the people used to pray qiyaam in the mosque, in scattered groups and individually, and he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) led his companions in praying qiyaam in Ramadan for several nights. Then he stopped doing that, on the basis that he feared that it might be made obligatory for them, then they would be unable to do it, but there was no fear of that after he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died.

End quote from Jaami‘ al-‘Uloom wa’l-Hikam (2/783)

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars have explained that what ‘Umar meant by that was the linguistic sense, according to Arabic usage, because he (may Allah be pleased with him) united the people behind a single imam, whereas at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq they used to pray in scattered groups. During his time (may Allah be pleased with him), he united them behind a single imam; he passed by them one night as they were praying and said: What a good innovation this is, i.e., uniting them behind a single imam in an ongoing and organised fashion.

This has to do with the linguistic meaning according to Arabic usage; he did not mean that it was an innovations in the technical, shar‘i sense. It is not possible that he (may Allah be pleased with him) could have introduced or approved of (reprehensible) innovations.

End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb (3/33)

Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The words of ‘Umar, “What a good innovation this is”, do not refer to innovation in the technical shar‘i sense, which means introducing something into the religion with no precedent. Rather he was referring to innovation in a linguistic sense, which is something new that was not known before he introduced it. There can be no doubt that offering Taraweeh prayer in congregation behind a single imam was not known or practised during the caliphate of Abu Bakr and the first half of ‘Umar’s caliphate, so in that sense it was something new. But because it was in accordance with what the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did, it is Sunnah and is not an innovation, and he only described it is good because of that.

End quote from Salaat at-Taraweeh (p. 50)

The Sunnah will alway be superior to Shi'ism!

And Allah knows best

Rashduct4luv:
Just like the OON, the Shiites has come again to deter people from the path of Sunnah!

Anyways! The attack will always come from them. A pig will never rest till it brings the other animal in to its own mess! Ahl-Sunnah wal Jama'a will always surpass you all.

The Prophet prayed Tarawih three times alone and people joined him. On the fourth night he refused to come out to tarawih because he was afraid the optional prayer will be made obligatory!

After the death of the Prophet, no act of worship can became obligatory hence Umar revived this Sunnah!

The honorable liar selectively choose hadiths and athar from Ahl-Sunnah Scholars that suite him to deceive unsuspecting Muslims!


Al-Bukhaari (2010) narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn ‘Abd al-Qaari’ that he said: I went out with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) one night in Ramadan to the mosque, where we saw the people in scattered groups, one man praying by himself, and another man praying with a group of people following his prayer. ‘Umar said: I think that if I unite these people behind one reciter, it will be better. Then he decided to do that, so he united them behind Ubayy ibn Ka‘b. Then I went out with him on another night, and the people were all praying behind their reciter. ‘Umar said: What a good innovation this is, but what they sleep and miss is better than what they are doing – referring to prayer at the end of the night, whereas the people were praying qiyaam at the beginning of the night.

With regard to ‘Umar’s words “what a good innovation (bid‘ah) this is”, what he meant by calling it an innovation was in the linguistic sense, i.e., it was something new that the people had never done before.

That was because gathering the people in Ramadan every night behind one imam on a continual and organised basis had not been done before. Therefore the context indicates that what was meant was the linguistic meaning, and he did not mean it in the technical shar‘i sense, which means introducing something into the religion that is not part of it, whilst attributing it to the religion. Taraweeh prayer is part of the religion and is something that is prescribed and encouraged; similarly, offering this prayer in congregation is also encouraged and recommended, and the basis for that is proven in the actions and words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

The scholars have stated that:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This is a description in linguistic terms, not in a technical shar‘i sense. That is because the word innovation (bid‘ah), in linguistic terms, includes everything that is introduced without precedent.

With regard to innovation (bid‘ah) in the technical, shar‘i sense, this refers to something for which there is no shar‘i evidence.

If the words of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) indicate that something is recommended or obligatory after his death, or is indicated in general terms, even though it was not done until after his death – such as the book of charity [a document that listed the rates of zakaah on livestock] that Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) issued – then doing that action after his death may correctly be called an innovation in linguistic terms, because it was something new.

In fact the very religion that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) brought may be called an innovation and may be called something new in linguistic terms, as the envoys of Quraysh said to the Negus (ruler of Abyssinia) concerning the companions of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) who migrated to Abyssinia: These people left the religion of their forefathers and did not enter the religion of the King [i.e., Christianity]; rather they brought an innovated religion that is not known.

Moreover, a deed which is supported by the Qur’an and Sunnah is not an innovation in shar‘i terms, even if it may be described as an innovation in linguistic terms. The word innovation is more general in meaning in the linguistic sense than in the technical shar‘i sense.

It is known that the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), “Every innovation is a going astray,” do not refer to every new thing that is done. In fact the religion of Islam – and indeed every religion brought by the Messengers – was a new thing. Rather what he meant is what is newly introduced of deeds (in the religion) that were not prescribed by him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

As that is the case, they used to pray the qiyaam of Ramadan (i.e., Taraweeh) at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) both in congregation and individually. He said to them on the third or fourth night, when they gathered: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to join you except the fact that I would not like it to be made obligatory for you. So pray in your houses, for the best prayer a man can offer is in his house, except the prescribed obligatory prayers.”

So he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) explained the reason why he did not come out (to lead them in Taraweeh prayers), which was the fear that it might be made obligatory. Thus it is known that the reason for his coming out to join them was still valid, and that were it not for the fear of it being made obligatory, he would have come out to join them.

But at the time of ‘Umar’s caliphate, he (may Allah be pleased with him) united them behind a single reciter and put lamps in the mosque. This way of doing it – which was to gather in the mosque behind a single imam, with lamps in the mosque – was something that they had not done before, hence it was called an innovation, because it may be described as such in linguistic terms, but it was not an innovation in shar‘i terms, because the Sunnah indicates that it was a righteous deed, were it not for the fear that it might be made obligatory. Fear that it might be made obligatory ceased with the death of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), so there was no longer any reason not to do it.

End quote from Iqtida’ as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem (2/95-97)

Ibn Rajab (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

With regard to what was said by some of the earlier generations about regarding some innovations as good, that refers to innovation in the linguistic sense, not in the technical shar‘i sense. An example of that is what ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, when he united the people in praying qiyaam in Ramadan behind a single imam in the mosque; when he came out and saw the people praying in that manner, he said: What a good innovation this is. And it was narrated from him that he said: If this is an innovation, then what a good innovation. What he meant was that this deed had not been done in this manner before this time, but it had a basis in Islamic teaching that may be referred to, such as the fact that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) used to encourage and urge people to pray qiyaam in Ramadan. At his time, the people used to pray qiyaam in the mosque, in scattered groups and individually, and he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) led his companions in praying qiyaam in Ramadan for several nights. Then he stopped doing that, on the basis that he feared that it might be made obligatory for them, then they would be unable to do it, but there was no fear of that after he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died.

End quote from Jaami‘ al-‘Uloom wa’l-Hikam (2/783)

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars have explained that what ‘Umar meant by that was the linguistic sense, according to Arabic usage, because he (may Allah be pleased with him) united the people behind a single imam, whereas at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq they used to pray in scattered groups. During his time (may Allah be pleased with him), he united them behind a single imam; he passed by them one night as they were praying and said: What a good innovation this is, i.e., uniting them behind a single imam in an ongoing and organised fashion.

This has to do with the linguistic meaning according to Arabic usage; he did not mean that it was an innovations in the technical, shar‘i sense. It is not possible that he (may Allah be pleased with him) could have introduced or approved of (reprehensible) innovations.

End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb (3/33)

Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The words of ‘Umar, “What a good innovation this is”, do not refer to innovation in the technical shar‘i sense, which means introducing something into the religion with no precedent. Rather he was referring to innovation in a linguistic sense..

End quote from Salaat at-Taraweeh (p. 50)

The Sunnah will alway be superior to Shi'ism!

And Allah knows best

Try hard next time. The above is a desperate reply.

1. Whether linguistic or otherwise as your Ulama tried to hoodwink their gullible followers, Umar ibn al-khattab's confession of innovating a BID'AT is one of the most sincere confession he ever made.

# Even the Sunni translator in the above source had to put in bracket "INNOVATION IN RELIGION"

# And Umar ibn al-khattab himself did full explanation of that saying:

"BUT the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.”

That was an indication that he was fully aware of how Prophet established his own. Is Sunnah not better than Umar's BID'AT?


2. GOOD NEWS

We have given you a way out. According to your hadith, Prophet ONLY prayed 23rd, 25th and 27th nights (in the middle of the night till almost fajr) in congregations. He NEVER did in any other nights.


What does Umar established which you practice till date? 29 or 30 nights tarawih immediately after Ishai or some minutes later

Even your sheik Uthaymin warned that to immitate the Prophet exactly is what being refer to following his Sunnah.

Why do you chose to stubbornly refuse the Prophet and follow Umar's BID'AT which your shuyukh tried hard to cajole the gullible that "it's just linguist use of language"

AlBaqir:



Try hard next time. The above is a desperate reply.

1. Whether linguistic or otherwise as your Ulama tried to hoodwink their gullible followers, Umar ibn al-khattab's confession of innovating a BID'AT is one of the most sincere confession he ever made.

# Even the Sunni translator in the above source had to put in bracket "INNOVATION IN RELIGION"

# And Umar ibn al-khattab himself did full explanation of that saying:

"BUT the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.”

That was an indication that he was fully aware of how Prophet established his own. Is Sunnah not better than Umar's BID'AT?


2. GOOD NEWS

We have given you a way out. According to your hadith, Prophet ONLY prayed 23rd, 25th and 27th nights (in the middle of the night till almost fajr) in congregations. He NEVER did in any other nights.


What does Umar established which you practice till date? 29 or 30 nights tarawih immediately after Ishai or some minutes later

Even your sheik Uthaymin warned that to immitate the Prophet exactly is what being refer to following his Sunnah.

Why do you chose to stubbornly refuse the Prophet and follow Umar's BID'AT which your shuyukh tried hard to cajole the gullible that "it's just linguist use of language"

Oga Shia, your Cherry picking has been exposed. I don't think i have anything to say to you anymore as truth is distinct from error/ falsehood!

Lakum deenukum waliya deen!

Outa thread.

Rashduct4luv:


Oga Shia, your Cherry picking has been exposed. I don't think i have anything to say to you anymore as truth is distinct from error/ falsehood!

Lakum deenukum waliya deen!

Outa thread.

Where did you see cherry picking? Cherry picking ko, Jerry Kerry ni

We said you are practicing BID'AT of Umar ibn al-khattab, your shuyukh said it is "only" Bid'at in Lughat sense despite Umar's further explanation. Here you are, enemy of truth, saying "cherry picking".

TRUTH ABOUT TARAWIH


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WCCilcJxvU

Narrated Awra that he was informed by `Aisha, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out and the people prayed behind him.On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet (ﷺ) came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited Tashah-hud and (addressing the people) said, "Amma ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me but I was afraid lest the night prayer (Qiyam) should be enjoined on you and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually). "




The misquoted and purposely twisted hadith
Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night."
We can establish from the above hadiths that;

*First of all did the prophet observe it and did sahabahs join in congregation? Yes, 2-3 nights
*Why did the prophet stopped it in congregation? fear of it being made compulsory on the Ummah
*When Umar entered the mosque, the hadith stated he saw some praying it individually and some in "group", meaning small congregation. If the people have been praying in small congregation, Umar only unite the Ummah under one Imam. Since the practice of praying tarawih in group has been a practice before so the Ummah did not argue or move against it.

As for those that are saying praying tarawih is unislamic, give us one instance in the time of the four caliphs that it was discouraged or are u saying all of the sahabah are misguided to have accepted this bidah of Umar.
Give us an authentic narrations where Imam Ali condemned this act or are you saying he never prayed tarawih. Please give us your proof

AlBaqir:
TRUTH ABOUT TARAWIH


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WCCilcJxvU

guru1234:

Narrated Awra that he was informed by `Aisha, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out and the people prayed behind him.On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet (ﷺ) came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited Tashah-hud and (addressing the people) said, "Amma ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me but I was afraid lest the night prayer (Qiyam) should be enjoined on you and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually). "




The misquoted and purposely twisted hadith
Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a

Unfortunately this is not how issues are discussed. All what you have posted are just lazy works: they are repetitive comments.

This is how you go in dialogue or debate: You read your opponent's submissions first, then point by point you destroy it by presenting something better of a counter argument.

Please read OP's submissions and tackle them appropriately.

I am not unacquainted with this subject. First, taraweeh is Islamic. Shia never disputed this fact contrary to what the brother posted up there.

Second, taraweeh in itself is not a bidiah. Line of argument is, according to Shia, taraweeh is only to be performed at home. I'm not concerned about when it should be performed at night at this time. However, the Sunni's argument is that, taraweeh, despite being Sunnah, it is also Sunnah to perform it in congregation and not bidiah to do so. I have read these back and forth arguments for years now. Shia are right from their perspective because there is famous hadith in Sunni that backs this up. Taraweeh is nafl.



It was narrated from Ibn ‘Umar that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Perform some of your prayers in your houses and do not make them graves.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 422; Muslim, 777)



al-Nawawi said:

The words “Perform some of your prayers in your houses and do not make them graves” mean, pray in them (your houses), and do not make them like graveyards which are devoid of prayer. What is referred to here is naafil (supererogatory) prayers, i.e., offer naafil prayers in your houses.



So from this perceptive, Shia are correct. Also what Shia are not getting is that, the same way we argue about congregational Dua and congregational dhikr, that they are beneficial, is the same way taraweeh in congregation is beneficial. This is Ramadan and Muslims should have some sort of gathering. The whole idea behind congregation of Muslims whether in obligatory salat or not is to come together and know one another. For instance, if we don't get to meet in congregation for fajr, we meet at zuhr, asr, maghrib or Isha etc. You get to meet different muslims from different backgrounds all the time. And if you miss congregational obligatory salat you get to meet them at jummah every week. If you don't meet them at jummah, you get to meet them on elds etc. This is the whole idea behind congregation.



Argument from Sunni on the other hand is that congregational taraweeh was revived by Umar. This is what they meant by linguistics analysis of bidiah of Umar(ra). Question is, did Umar (ra) say anything about linguistics here?. He simply said this is a good bidiah indicating there is good bidiah in Islam contrary to opinion of some people who said there is no such thing. The reason it is good bidiah and not in linguistics sense whatever that means is that nabi Muhammad (saw) stopped congregational taraweeh after 3rd day to avoid making it obligatory on us is indication that it was stopped. When S. Umar(ra) allegedly 'revived' it it means that he revived it to avoid multiple different jummah in a masjid and the masjid gets chaotic. This was his main reason which makes sense. I honestly do not buy the idea of "bidiah in linguistic sense". This makes no sense at all. They only came about this "linguistic" to play down bidiah. Sheikh Adam Al-ilory(ra) cited this statement of Umar (ra) i:e good bidiah, when he defended mawlid.



I disagree with Shia only if they insist that we must not perform taraweeh in congregation because "it is not Sunnah". My reply to them is, is anything bad if muslims come together like this?. So congratulational Taraweeh was not commanded by the prophet (saw) because the companions simply saw him and they joined. He silently approved it for 3 days which means it is Sunnah. However he stopped them afterwards for whatever reason. So from Umar's perceptive, he was right too. It is Sunnah of kulafah to congregate on taraweeh. You should notice that you meet new people all the time in Ramadan. Indeed, "what a good bidiah".



We would make constructive criticism if we look over sectarian differences. Again, my position is taraweeh in itself, whether offered individually or in congregation is Sunnah. Line of argument is if it is bidiah to offer taraweeh in congregation for 29 or 30 consecutive days. I say it is not bad at all. It is Sunnah of kulafah rashidun but it is bidiah only in the sense that it was stopped by the prophet and restarted after him.


To be honest, for the fact that they recite long sura or entire Quran in taraweeh makes it exactly what Umar called it, "good bidiah" since some people are having difficulties standing behind imam while imam embarks on half of Sura baqarah in the first rakah. This kinda makes it looks like compulsory thing. But me personally I have no issue with that bcuz it is nice exercise for me but we gotta consider other people. I don't see where nabi Muhammad led congregation in salat whether nawafil or fard and recited long sura like baqarah in the first two rakat. What we learned was that when he led congregation he shortened sura.



To recite longer sura, you gotta do your thing individually. This we learned when the prophet stood up all night long and his feet swelled. But he recited short sura when he led congregation. Please don't just ignore Shia evidences in the Deen just for being Shia. And Shia should not ignore or condemn Sunni's for being Sunni.

Empiree:
I all not unacquainted with this subject. First, taraweeh is Islamic. Shia never disputed this fact contrary to what the brother posted up there.

Second, taraweeh in itself is not a bidiah. Line of argument is, according to Shia, taraweeh is only to be performed at home. I'm not concerned about when it should be performed at night at this time.


However, the Sunni's argument is that, taraweeh, despite being Sunnah, it is also Sunnah to perform it in congregation and not bidiah to do so.


I have read these back and forth arguments for years now. Shia are right from their perceptive because there is famous hadith in Sunni that backs this up. Taraweeh is nafl.



It was narrated from Ibn ‘Umar that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Perform some of your prayers in your houses and do not make them graves.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 422; Muslim, 777)



al-Nawawi said:

The words “Perform some of your prayers in your houses and do not make them graves” mean, pray in them (your houses), and do not make them like graveyards which are devoid of prayer. What is referred to here is naafil (supererogatory) prayers, i.e., offer naafil prayers in your houses.


So from this perceptive, Shia are correct.


Also what Shia are not getting is that, the same way we argue about congregational Dua and congregational dhikr, that they are beneficial, is the same way taraweeh in congregation is beneficial. This is Ramadan and Muslims should have some sort of gathering.

The whole idea behind congregation of Muslims whether in obligatory salat or not is to come together and knowing one another.



For instance, if we don't get to meet in congregation for fajr, we meet at zuhr, asr, maghrib or Isha. You get to meet different muslims from different backgrounds all the time. And if you miss congregational obligatory salat you get to meet them at jummah every week.

If you don't meet them at jummah, you get to meet them on elds etc. This is the whole idea behind congregation.



Argument from Sunni on the other hand is that congregational taraweeh was revived by Umar. This is what they meant by linguistics analysis of bidiah of Umar(ra). Question is, did Umar (ra) say anything about linguistics here?. He simply said this is a good bidiah indicating there is good bidiah in Islam contrary to opinion of some people who said there is no such thing.


The reason it is good bidiah and not in linguistics sense whatever that means is that nabi Muhammad (saw) stopped congregational taraweeh after 3rd day to avoid making it obligatory on us is indication that it was stopped. When S. Umar(ra) allegedly 'revived' it it means that he revived it to avoid multiple different jummah in a masjid and the masjid gets chaotic. This was his main reason which makes sense. I honestly do not buy the idea of "bidiah in linguistic sense". This makes no sense at all. They only came about this "linguistic" to play down bidiah. Sheikh Adam Al-ilory(ra) cited this statement of Umar (ra) i:e good bidiah, when he defended mawlid.


I only disagree with Shia only if they insist that we must not perform taraweeh in congregation because "it is not Sunnah". My reply to them is, is anything bad if muslims come together like this?.


So congratulational Taraweeh was not commanded by the prophet (saw) because the companions simply saw him and they joined. He silently approved it for 3 days which means it is Sunnah. However he stopped them afterwards for wherever reason. So from Umar's perceptive, he was right too. It is Sunnah of kulafah to congregate on taraweeh. You should notice that you meet new people all the time in Ramadan. Indeed, "what a good bidiah".



We would make constructive criticism if we look over sectarian differences. Again, my position is taraweeh in itself, whether offered individually or in congregation is Sunnah. Line of argument is if it is bidiah to offer taraweeh in congregation for 29 or 30 consecutive days. I say it is not bad at all. It is Sunnah of kulafah rashidun but it is bidiah only in the sense that it was stopped by the prophet and restarted after him.


To be honest, for the fact that they recite long sura or entire Quran in taraweeh makes it exactly what Umar called it, "good bidiah" since some people are having difficulties standing behind imam while imam embarks on half of Sura baqarah in the first rakah. This kinda makes it looks like compulsory thing. But me personally I have no issue with that bcuz it is nice exercise for me but we gotta consider other people. I don't see where nabi Muhammad led congregation in salat whether nawafil or fard and recited long sura like baqarah in the first two rakat. What we learned was that when he led congregation he shortened sura.

To recite longer sura, you gotta do your thing individually. This we learned when the prophet stood up all night long and his feet swelled. But he recited short sura when he led congregation.

Please don't just ignore Shia evidences in the Deen just for being Shia. And Shia should not ignore or condemn Sunni's for being Sunni.

This is my stand too, it is definitely good bidiah
example of Bid'ah Hasana is the development of the study of Hadith, Fiqh, Tafsir, which did not exist at the time of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (Al-Nawawi).

Empiree:
I am not unacquainted with this subject. First, taraweeh is Islamic. Shia never disputed this fact contrary to what the brother posted up there.

Second, taraweeh in itself is not a bidiah. Line of argument is, according to Shia, taraweeh is only to be performed at home. I'm not concerned about when it should be performed at night at this time. However, the Sunni's argument is that, taraweeh, despite being Sunnah, it is also Sunnah to perform it in congregation and not bidiah to do so. I have read these back and forth arguments for years now. Shia are right from their perspective because there is famous hadith in Sunni that backs this up. Taraweeh is nafl.



It was narrated from Ibn ‘Umar that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Perform some of your prayers in your houses and do not make them graves.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 422; Muslim, 777)



al-Nawawi said:

The words “Perform some of your prayers in your houses and do not make them graves” mean, pray in them (your houses), and do not make them like graveyards which are devoid of prayer. What is referred to here is naafil (supererogatory) prayers, i.e., offer naafil prayers in your houses.



So from this perceptive, Shia are correct. Also what Shia are not getting is that, the same way we argue about congregational Dua and congregational dhikr, that they are beneficial, is the same way taraweeh in congregation is beneficial. This is Ramadan and Muslims should have some sort of gathering. The whole idea behind congregation of Muslims whether in obligatory salat or not is to come together and know one another. For instance, if we don't get to meet in congregation for fajr, we meet at zuhr, asr, maghrib or Isha etc. You get to meet different muslims from different backgrounds all the time. And if you miss congregational obligatory salat you get to meet them at jummah every week. If you don't meet them at jummah, you get to meet them on elds etc. This is the whole idea behind congregation.



Argument from Sunni on the other hand is that congregational taraweeh was revived by Umar. This is what they meant by linguistics analysis of bidiah of Umar(ra). Question is, did Umar (ra) say anything about linguistics here?. He simply said this is a good bidiah indicating there is good bidiah in Islam contrary to opinion of some people who said there is no such thing. The reason it is good bidiah and not in linguistics sense whatever that means is that nabi Muhammad (saw) stopped congregational taraweeh after 3rd day to avoid making it obligatory on us is indication that it was stopped. When S. Umar(ra) allegedly 'revived' it it means that he revived it to avoid multiple different jummah in a masjid and the masjid gets chaotic. This was his main reason which makes sense. I honestly do not buy the idea of "bidiah in linguistic sense". This makes no sense at all. They only came about this "linguistic" to play down bidiah. Sheikh Adam Al-ilory(ra) cited this statement of Umar (ra) i:e good bidiah, when he defended mawlid.



I disagree with Shia only if they insist that we must not perform taraweeh in congregation because "it is not Sunnah". My reply to them is, is anything bad if muslims come together like this?. So congratulational Taraweeh was not commanded by the prophet (saw) because the companions simply saw him and they joined. He silently approved it for 3 days which means it is Sunnah. However he stopped them afterwards for whatever reason. So from Umar's perceptive, he was right too. It is Sunnah of kulafah to congregate on taraweeh. You should notice that you meet new people all the time in Ramadan. Indeed, "what a good bidiah".



We would make constructive criticism if we look over sectarian differences. Again, my position is taraweeh in itself, whether offered individually or in congregation is Sunnah. Line of argument is if it is bidiah to offer taraweeh in congregation for 29 or 30 consecutive days. I say it is not bad at all. It is Sunnah of kulafah rashidun but it is bidiah only in the sense that it was stopped by the prophet and restarted after him.


To be honest, for the fact that they recite long sura or entire Quran in taraweeh makes it exactly what Umar called it, "good bidiah" since some people are having difficulties standing behind imam while imam embarks on half of Sura baqarah in the first rakah. This kinda makes it looks like compulsory thing. But me personally I have no issue with that bcuz it is nice exercise for me but we gotta consider other people. I don't see where nabi Muhammad led congregation in salat whether nawafil or fard and recited long sura like baqarah in the first two rakat. What we learned was that when he led congregation he shortened sura.



To recite longer sura, you gotta do your thing individually. This we learned when the prophet stood up all night long and his feet swelled. But he recited short sura when he led congregation. Please don't just ignore Shia evidences in the Deen just for being Shia. And Shia should not ignore or condemn Sunni's for being Sunni.

You hit up on a topic I've been thinking about for years.
What constitutes as bidiah and are there different classifications of bidiah?
Like for example if I invent a tradition in my house where we recite the Quran every Monday from 4pm to 6pm. Does this constitute as bidiah because it is not something the Prophet (SAW) ever specifically directed anyone do in that manner? But reciting the Quran is sunnah and is still central to Islamic practices.
Or the way some of my Tarika(Sufi) buddies like to meet up in the masjid on Fridays and do zikr out loud together. Is this really bidiah if zikr is a highly recommend practice? The manner they choose to do their zikr is not something that Prophet (SAW) ever directed, but he never forbid it either and zikr is still a highly recommend act and if you choose to do it in a group is it really a bad thing?
Now i know that if someone comes and says you should be praying six obligatory prayers a day, instead of the normal 5. You should consider it as bidiah and dismiss it, but this would mean that their are different types of bidiah some bad (and to be dismissed), some neutral and some good (like the example i gave of reciting the Quran every Monday in a household). This idea would go contrary to the "Izalatul Bidiah Wa Ikamatun Sunnah" (translation: getting rid of bidiah and facing the Sunnah) or Salafi and Wahabi claim that all bidiah can only be bad and that you should only stick to what can be found in the Sunnah, but they never specify what they mean by bidiah.
Is something really even bidiah if it doesn't go against any established rules and Sunnah in Islam. Like where are the lines?
This issue has led to violent fights between the Izala and the Tarika sects here in the North
Edit: I've come to realize that some people even classify traditional practices that are not against any Islamic practices as bidiah despite the fact that no one ever tried to attribute it to Islam. E.g. "Budan kai" a hausa-fulani traditional wedding practice where the bride's face is covered and reviled, and the bride is given gifts...

IMAliyu:

You hit up on a topic I've been thinking about for years.
What constitutes as bidiah and are there different classifications of bidiah?
Like for example if I invent a tradition in my house where we recite the Quran every Monday from 4pm to 6pm. Does this constitute as bidiah because it is not something the Prophet (SAW) ever specifically directed anyone do in that manner? But reciting the Quran is sunnah and is still central to Islamic practices.
Or the way some of my Tarika(Sufi) buddies like to meet up in the masjid on Fridays and do zikr out loud together. Is this really bidiah if zikr is a highly recommend practice? The manner they choose to do their zikr is not something that Prophet (SAW) ever directed, but he never forbid it either and zikr is still a highly recommend act and if you choose to do it in a group is it really a bad thing?

not bidiah at all. This is called "igbinyanju". That's, ijtihad in Islam. So what all these tariqat are doing is ijtihad except that some people may be extreme.

Now i know that if someone comes and says you should be praying six obligatory prayers a day, instead of the normal 5. You should consider it as bidiah and dismiss it, but this would mean that their are different types of bidiah some bad (and to be dismissed), some neutral and some good (like the example i gave of reciting the Quran every Monday in a household). This idea would go contrary to the "Izalatul Bidiah Wa Ikamatun Sunnah" (translation: getting rid of bidiah and facing the Sunnah) or Salafi and Wahabi claim that all bidiah can only be bad and that you should only stick to what can be found in the Sunnah, but they never specify what they mean by bidiah.
Is something really even bidiah if it doesn't go against any established rules and Sunnah in Islam. Like where are the lines?
This issue has led to violent fights between the Izala and the Tarika sects here in the North
Edit: I've come realize that some people even classify traditional practices that are not against any Islamic practices as bidiah despite the fact that no one ever tried to attribute it to Islam. E.g. "Budan kai" a hausa-fulani traditional wedding practice where the bride's face is covered and reviled, and the bride is given gifts...

the group like izala and others who keep shouting bidiah all the time irresponsibly is that they are lazy and rigid and are teaching Muslims to be lazy and rigid. They have closed the door on ijtihad.

That's all.

Rashduct4luv:


Oga Shia, your Cherry picking has been exposed. I don't think i have anything to say to you anymore as truth is distinct from error/ falsehood!

Lakum deenukum waliya deen!

Outa thread.

Oga, you can't explain the words of Umar away through a senseless apologetics. He clearly called his innovation as bidah and you are trying to cover up with poor defence.

I believe Shia offers the purest form of Islam.

guru1234:

Narrated Awra that he was informed by `Aisha, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out and the people prayed behind him.On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet (ﷺ) came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited Tashah-hud and (addressing the people) said, "Amma ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me but I was afraid lest the night prayer (Qiyam) should be enjoined on you and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually). "




The misquoted and purposely twisted hadith
Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night."
We can establish from the above hadiths that;

*First of all did the prophet observe it and did sahabahs join in congregation? Yes, 2-3 nights
*Why did the prophet stopped it in congregation? fear of it being made compulsory on the Ummah
*When Umar entered the mosque, the hadith stated he saw some praying it individually and some in "group", meaning small congregation. If the people have been praying in small congregation, Umar only unite the Ummah under one Imam. Since the practice of praying tarawih in group has been a practice before so the Ummah did not argue or move against it.

As for those that are saying praying tarawih is unislamic, give us one instance in the time of the four caliphs that it was discouraged or are u saying all of the sahabah are misguided to have accepted this bidah of Umar.
Give us an authentic narrations where Imam Ali condemned this act or are you saying he never prayed tarawih. Please give us your proof

First, Prophet Mohammed did not encouraged it and lastly, the man that introduced it called it bidah.

ChristianNorth:

Oga, you can't explain the words of Umar away through a senseless apologetics. He clearly called his innovation as bidah and you are trying to cover up with poor defence.

I believe Shia offers the purest form of Islam.

and when are you gonna be Shia or you just want to cause sectarian tensions?. It ain't gonna work, bro.

Instead of praising Shia, just be one if you are truthful. If you become Shia muslim you will be welcomed by house of Islam. But don't stay out there and their stone into house of Islam. This is the 4th time I challenged you.

Empiree:
and when are you gonna be Shia or you just want to cause sectarian tensions?. It ain't gonna work, bro.

Instead of praising Shia, just be one if you are truthful. If you become Shia muslim you will be welcomed by house of Islam. But don't stay out there and their stone into house of Islam. This is the 4th time I challenged you.

Which one be sectarian tension?

I don't need to be officially one to believe their teachings. Already we share a lot of things in common and I learn a great deal from them.

I love their resilience and I am a fan of Caliph Ali. I love their moderate form of Islam.

I only accept as authentic, Shia explanation of Islamic practices.

ChristianNorth:

Which one be sectarian tension?

I don't need to be officially one to believe their teachings. Already we share a lot of things in common and I learn a great deal from them.

I love their resilience and I am a fan of Caliph Ali. I love their moderate form of Islam.

I only accept as authentic, Shia explanation of Islamic practices.

keep deceiving yourself

Empiree:
keep deceiving yourself

How? Explain please.

ChristianNorth:

How? Explain please.

never mind

Empiree:
never mind

You would have be a perfect moslem if not for some of your salafist views.
Anyway, I wish most moslems would be like you.

ChristianNorth:

You would have be a perfect moslem if not for some of your salafist views.

Anyway, I wish most moslems would be like you.

what I don't understand is, why are you concerned about Shia, wahabi, Salafi?. If this your priority?

I always knew tagging most things bidah would come back to haunt the salafi, and this is one the results.
The very fact that Umar RA called it bidah shouldn't provoke any form of ambiguity. Bidah is bidah period. And I'm not buying the "linguistic sense" drivel. it's one horribly concocted defence mechanism, a shabby use of semantics to paper over the cracks in the whole brouhaha.

Someof the questions we should be asking: is the practice wrong? No. Is it bidah? Yes. Is it a good bidah? Yes. Will I join my brothers in observing tarawih tonight? Yes.

If you (all sects) still think your sect is doing exactly what the Prophet SAW did, you dey deceive yourselves.

aadoiza:
I always knew tagging most things bidah would come back to haunt the salafi, and this is one the results.
The very fact that Umar RA called it bidah shouldn't provoke any form of ambiguity. Bidah is bidah period. And I'm not buying the "linguistic sense" drivel. it's one horribly concocted defence mechanism, a shabby use of semantics to paper over the cracks in the whole brouhaha.

Someof the questions we should be asking: is the practice wrong? No. Is it bidah? Yes. Is it a good bidah? Yes. Will I join my brothers in observing tarawih tonight? Yes.

If you (all sects) still think your sect is doing exactly what the Prophet SAW did, you dey deceive yourselves.

During the prophet's time all Quran verses were not compiled in a single place but during Umar's Kaliphate the Quran was compiled into one that we even have a verse of concern.
Will they call that bidiah too, since the holy prophet did not do it.
I just tire for all the bidiasts.
Yes that's their name Bidiasts.

Empiree:
what I don't understand is, why are you concerned about Shia, wahabi, Salafi?. If this your priority?

Don't mind him.
He doesn't know we don't care about his antics.

aadoiza:
I always knew tagging most things bidah would come back to haunt the salafi, and this is one the results.
The very fact that Umar RA called it bidah shouldn't provoke any form of ambiguity. Bidah is bidah period. And I'm not buying the "linguistic sense" drivel. it's one horribly concocted defence mechanism, a shabby use of semantics to paper over the cracks in the whole brouhaha.

Someof the questions we should be asking: is the practice wrong? No. Is it bidah? Yes. Is it a good bidah? Yes. Will I join my brothers in observing tarawih tonight? Yes.

If you (all sects) still think your sect is doing exactly what the Prophet SAW did, you dey deceive yourselves.

Alhajiemeritus:

This is my stand too, it is definitely good bidiah
example of Bid'ah Hasana is the development of the study of Hadith, Fiqh, Tafsir, which did not exist at the time of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (Al-Nawawi).

Sometimes we need to let go our ego and take the raw truth as it is.

# Point one: Bid'ah is Bid'ah: There is nothing like good Bid'ah and bad Bid'ah. Prophet clearly stated, "kullu Bid'ati dalala....Every bid'at is misguidance...." This is as far as Islamic laws are concerned.

# Point two: Practices could either be Sunnah, bid'at or good practice. The application of "bid'at" to every new practices not practically done by the Prophet is totally wrong. Hence, we need to set the record straight by redefining what Bid'at really is? Salafi is totally wrong with their definition of bid'at.

# Point three: As per Tarawih that Sunni prayed today, like it or not: IT IS 100% BID'AT.

1. It is not supposed to be hold in congregations: prophet forbid it and ordered individual prayer at home

2. The only exception given by the Prophet was 23rd, 25th and 27th for the purpose of seeking night of majesty. This is the only night prayer that Prophet held in congregations during the month of Ramadan according to Sunni traditions

3. Today's timing of tarawih is totally wrong from the time Umar ibn al-khattab formulated it. Prophet ONLY prayed night prayers in the month of Ramadan at the middle of the night not after Ishai. Interestingly Umar after calling his own version "bid'at" went further saying "BUT that which they first sleep and then wake up to pray is better than this".
Obviously, Sunnah will always better than Bid'at even if one hates it.

4. Tarawih after Ishai is usually between 10 - 20 rakaat. Prophet night prayer is just 11 rakaat with the inclusion of saf' and witr.

#Point 4: Yes, tarawih has become tradition among the Sunnis. The annoying thing is linking it to the Prophet as if he established it the way it is being prayed today.

And Empiree, please there is nothing like "Shia understanding or Shia point of views" here. All the submission at the OP are 100% Sunni traditions. Sunni ulama in order to save face might distort its interpretations and give it meaning suitable to their own practice but they will never erase those clear ahadith. And as you can see there is a video posted above: Sunni shuyukh debating on the issue: one is economical with the truth, the other is not. So again please leave Shia out of this please. This is simple research work.

At the end man always has choice: right or wrong.

^^^

Your point two has lots of consequences.

Qur'an and Sunnah are there side by side and Allah also gave His Prophets and messangers HIKMA. It is that HIKMA that Umar applied when he saw masjid so chaotic. Everyone is praying individually and loud. We don't need PhD to figure it out that something must be done which is what Umar (ra) did. He did the right thing.


You chose wrong choice of word "forbidden" with regard to taraweeh in congregation. Again, if not because of congregational taraweeh how are muslims going to gather in Ramadan?.


In Ramadan you get to see hungry Muslims come out to eat at Masajid. If not for kima used by Umar, how are they gonna eat if they don't have food?. Myself go to different Masajid in Ramadan everyday to eat and bring free food home.

If we are to sleep and return for taraweeh, I bet you only very few would come to masjid. So HIKMA is applied. Islam is to be understood with time. At the time of nabi Muslim population was handful. Today we are billions.


So HIKMA was applied by Umar. It is unfair to say he go against the prophet in this instance. Just imagine they didn't compiled Quran?.

If I'm to apply your notion that bidiat is bidiat, then, we are gonna suffer as Muslims today bcus Quran would have still be written on different pieces. Therefore, Umar and uthman(ra) applied their HIKMA.



So congregational taraweeh is a good practice whether it was concocted after nabi or not. People used to gather for Dua and dhikr in the time of the prophet (saw). This means gathering in itself is not bidiah. And Taraweeh is not bidiah. So if Sunnis gather for Taraweeh, how it's that problem?. The only time I don't I don't attend taraweeh is when I'm kinda weak or late at work.

Alhajiemeritus:

During the prophet's time all Quran verses were not compiled in a single place but during Umar's Kaliphate the Quran was compiled into one that we even have a verse of concern.
Will they call that bidiah too, since the holy prophet did not do it.
I just tire for all the bidiasts.
Yes that's their name Bidiasts.

This is exactly what I meant. Nobody is doing exactly the same way Rasool did it.
Sectarianism is killing us. Albaqir can't make good points without some calling him Shia or kafir or allu bidiah, which I think is ridiculous. Shey we no fit agree to disagree without name calling ni? After all, Allah and his messenger did not endorse any sect

aadoiza:

This is exactly what I meant. Nobody is doing exactly the same way Rasool did it.
Sectarianism is killing us. Albaqir can't make good points without some calling him Shia or kafir or allu bidiah, which I think is ridiculous. Shey we no fit agree to disagree without name calling ni? After all, Allah and his messenger did not any sect

O ti su faah.

People love and hate base on faction he or she belongs to while bypassing daleel. This is sad reality we are facing today. We are gradually following lizard hole but I refuse to follow that direction.

AlBaqir:






Sometimes we need to let go our ego and take the raw truth as it is.

# Point one: Bid'ah is Bid'ah: There is nothing like good Bid'ah and bad Bid'ah. Prophet clearly stated, "kullu Bid'ati dalala....Every bid'at is misguidance...." This is as far as Islamic laws are concerned.

# Point two: Practices could either be Sunnah, bid'at or good practice. The application of "bid'at" to every new practices not practically done by the Prophet is totally wrong. Hence, we need to set the record straight by redefining what Bid'at really is? Salafi is totally wrong with their definition of bid'at.

# Point three: As per Tarawih that Sunni prayed today, like it or not: IT IS 100% BID'AT.

1. It is not supposed to be hold in congregations: prophet forbid it and ordered individual prayer at home

2. The only exception given by the Prophet was 23rd, 25th and 27th for the purpose of seeking night of majesty. This is the only night prayer that Prophet held in congregations during the month of Ramadan according to Sunni traditions

3. Today's timing of tarawih is totally wrong from the time Umar ibn al-khattab formulated it. Prophet ONLY prayed night prayers in the month of Ramadan at the middle of the night not after Ishai. Interestingly Umar after calling his own version "bid'at" went further saying "BUT that which they first sleep and then wake up to pray is better than this".
Obviously, Sunnah will always better than Bid'at even if one hates it.

4. Tarawih after Ishai is usually between 10 - 20 rakaat. Prophet night prayer is just 11 rakaat with the inclusion of saf' and witr.

#Point 4: Yes, tarawih has become tradition among the Sunnis. The annoying thing is linking it to the Prophet as if he established it the way it is being prayed today.

And Empiree, please there is nothing like "Shia understanding or Shia point of views" here. All the submission at the OP are 100% Sunni traditions. Sunni ulama in order to save face might distort its interpretations and give it meaning suitable to their own practice but they will never erase those clear ahadith. And as you can see there is a video posted above: Sunni shuyukh debating on the issue: one is economical with the truth, the other is not. So again please leave Shia out of this please. This is simple research work.

At the end man always has choice: right or wrong.

Well you have overwhelming evidence to back your claim, but are you saying Umar would deliberately go against a well-established sunnah? I think not. He had good reasons to fix the chaotic situation resulting from the too many people observing nawafil separately that night by enjoining them to do so in congregation. Of course the Prophet's way is the best way, and the congregation type should be done with the intention bringing people together, even if not as rewarding..

In sha Allah, I will get different perspectives on this.

Empiree:
O ti su faah.

People love and hate base on faction he or she belongs to while bypassing daleel. This is sad reality we are facing today. We are gradually following lizard hole but I refuse to follow that direction.

Sun ke, for twelve? Nba

It is sad indeed. To call a spade a spade, Albaqir is 100% right on this and he brought forth daleel from sunni sources to support his claim. However, someone like me don't believe every bidiah is bad. Take group dhikr for instance, with all the condemnation thereof by Allu sunnah I don't see the wrong in a group of people calling Allah's names and praising him. We tend to make unnecessary fuss over irrelevancies