LordReed:


How do you know which is which?

Common sense

lomprico:


So the king telling the woman to boil her son for them to eat is a directive from God?

Just in case you don't know, the Bible contains the words of God, the words of Man and the words of the devil. It's left for you to know which to adhere to. Not everything in the bible is from God!!

Sorry to announce to you, the bible doesn't contain the words of God Almighty, but the words of Yahweh who happen to be a creature of God. Currently Yahweh is in his spiritual cage.


Otem Erectus 227:1,2
1. Now after this did otem begin to say, Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Mazda and all gods of the books are now encaged in a spiritual vacuum. And those who heard him said, keep quiet, for you are mad.
2. And otem said, why can you not open your inner eyes and see this truth? Where are the illusions of fearful fire? Where are the illusions of demons? They are all conquered.

lomprico:


Common sense

So when the bible records that the god killed all the first born in Egypt, which of the 3 was talking, the god, the devil or man?

LordReed:


So when the bible records that the god killed all the first born in Egypt, which of the 3 was talking, the god, the devil or man?

This is a very tough Jamb Question.

0temSapien:
This is a very tough Jamb Question.

LoL

Agrogbeide:
What they love is arguments. It is the only thing that can satisfy their foolishness. When you them the truth they desire, they turn it to foolishness. No wonder the Lord Jesus Christ said; do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you. And this is the aim of this thread.

One thing we fail to understand is that IF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST IS NOT FOOLISHNESS to them that are on their way to perdition except they repent, then it is not the true gospel.

Don't be sentimental as a Christian. When an atheist comes to attack your faith, have it at the back of your mind that he is challenging how much you know about the God you serve. If you allow the Holy Spirit to help, comfort and teach you, you will never fall into their snare. MANY CALL THEMSELVES ATHEISTS BUT TO MY OBSERVATIONS THEY ARE APOSTATES due to one reason or the other, so they think they have exhausted the whole scriptures and therefore can come around to utter or abuse things way beyond their understanding. Used every of their arguments to gain momentum in Christ and see how they fall at your left and right sides without touching you.

The Bible is not God but the dealings of God with Nature and humanity. As Christians we are to learn with it and from it so that we won't run back when we fall or remain stagnant when we slip along the way to eternity. It is 100 percent correct, no accusation against it shall stand and if you are not satisfied with it go write your own history book and let's see how far it goes.
I believe in the Holy Bible (Genesis to Revelations) and other Spirit inspired books that are not against it whether they be apocrypha or not.

There is a LOGICAL EVIDENCE TO THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WITHOUT ANY BIBLE REFERENCE. BUT WILL THE FOOLISH ONES BUY THIS TRUTH?.......LOL.
ONLY DEATH HOLDS THE TRUTH ATHEISTS DESIRES BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OUR TRUTH AND HE WILL ALWAYS HELP, COMFORT AND TEACH US THROUGH OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

NB: I don't waste my phone ink over arguments.

Thanks.

God bless.

Good write up bro. But Honestly I don't get what u mean by being Sentimental

lomprico:


This is a digression from what the OP was insinuating.

We are talking about the horrible horrible things that man did in the name of God in the old testament.

I will still use point #6 from the OP to illustrate. The king (man) gave an instruction for a woman to boil her son to eat, she went ahead. The poor kid died (wickedness/ Foolishness of man which still happens till date)
God gave Abraham instruction for something similar and I believe we all know how that story ended.

My point is man has been man from beginning of time the wicked preyed on the foolish.

These things were recorded in the bible does not mean it's God's words, he(God) inspired some of such events to pass a message in d long run.
And some so called prophets today are like that king.

You Heavily Digressing bro. Try to re-read the Intro of the Topic. All the writer is about is Questioning the Existence of GOD..
And Dts all I am about

LordReed:


So when the bible records that the God killed all the first born in Egypt, which of the 3 was talking, the god, the devil or man?

God!!

0temSapien:
Sorry to announce to you, the bible doesn't contain the words of God Almighty, but the words of Yahweh who happen to be a creature of God. Currently Yahweh is in his spiritual cage.


Otem Erectus 227:1,2
1. Now after this did otem begin to say, Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Mazda and all gods of the books are now encaged in a spiritual vacuum. And those who heard him said, keep quiet, for you are mad.
2. And otem said, why can you not open your inner eyes and see this truth? Where are the illusions of fearful fire? Where are the illusions of demons? They are all conquered.

Whatever rocks your boat!

lomprico:


God!!

So if it is the god perpetrating wholesale slaughter what exactly are you objecting to here:

lomprico:
Most of the things here were man made decisions and law not God's!

And it still happens till date. People using God's name to scare and scam others.

The fact that it's in the bible does not mean God sanctioned it. Remember man wrote n compiled the bible.

frosbel2:
Here's a list of bible verses that make one wonder just what sort of God Christians give their lives to in sincere patronage to what they call 'Holy'. If any readers have better examples (and I'm certain there must be) please be sure to add to the list. I know Christians will excuse the worst by saying 'Oh those are Old Testament" so I'll endeavour to try to quote liberally from the New.

1. God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him: 1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men (50,070)”. Kill 50 000 men for looking at something?

2. You can kill a woman if she seizes a man's private parts without his permission: Deuteronomy 25:11-1: If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

3. Perversity and human trafficking condoned: "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

4. Sex slavery condoned: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8

5. Divorce akin to debauchery: "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18)

6. Cannibalism: "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)

7. If your genitals have been damaged, stay out of church: "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

8. Incest and getting drunk with dad is no problem if the world is running thin on suitable DNA donors: And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36]

9. Looking at a woman with desire is akin to adultery: "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

10. But incestuous rape is cool: And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]

11. Pray in private, and if you do so in church, do so quietly: Matt 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others."

12. If you offend God he will kill you: "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." (Genesis 38:7-10)

13. God smites women, children and often animals with equal gusto, he seems to equal evil and wrong doing by association, rather than by being guilty of the personal, individual act: "Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

14. Rev 21: 8 "liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Eternal damnation for lying? In South Africa murderers and rapists often get released for good behaviur, lying is politics.

And speaking of lying, the bible ends with one. It calls its message 'the good news' and concludes, "I am coming soon." Wrong on the 'soon' bit, and unless we've missed something, no one has come. But I get it, if 2000 years pass, soon after such a length of time must be VERY soon. If 10 000 years pass, soon must be very VERY soon.

https://www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-14-Most-Abominable-Bible-Verses-20121224

BIBLE ILLITERACY.

LordReed:


So when the bible records that the god killed all the first born in Egypt, which of the 3 was talking, the god, the devil or man?

Bible illiteracy. the question you supposed to ask is what kind of king will ignore 9 deadly plague and ignorantly allow the firstborn of his people killed ? God allowed the first-born to be killed as a judgment upon Pharaoh as a proof of God's superiority and as a prophetic representation of the death of His Son, Jesus.

Oops, so frosb actually became an atheist abi na agnostic or whatever the twins call themselves? Eeyah, for real? i always knew he was an unbeliever in his so called Christian days, but it's unfortunate he played like film. i think i even recall my friend Olaa warning him with the black and white picture about his descent. Too bad for him. I hope he doesn't die in sin oh.

TVSA:
you need the holy spirit to understand those verses

Actually, one just needs a brain!

How people read in a book what people claim God did or said or told them to do and think it's God talking just amuses me. They'd have to think God wrote the books or is the books itself even. If they could only extend this thinking to a newspaper, they might see the error of creating images (which is really at best what the Bible is), and bowing down and worshipping it (which is what is done when the Bible becomes holy in their hands).

You wouldn't claim what's written in a newspaper was precisely what the person written about did. You sure as hell would not trust the reporter reporting was the person reported about. So why can't you just imagine that the books in the Bible itself is the report of it's authors and not the words of the God itself? Don't the various contradictory reports of its numerous authors not tell you anything at all?

Some people need to grow up, mature, and learn, is what I think. They should start by investigating how the Bible came about. Perhaps they'd then understand that it didn't fall off God's printing press in heaven but is an imperfect report of those who have bothered to give reports according to their own dim, but all we have, view.

For those of you who care, here is one of many places to start. Though, don't believe it either as it too is not 'God'!

malvisguy212:
Bible illiteracy. the question you supposed to ask is what kind of king will ignore 9 deadly plague and ignorantly allow the firstborn of his people killed ? God allowed the first-born to be killed as a judgment upon Pharaoh as a proof of God's superiority and as a prophetic representation of the death of His Son, Jesus.

The kind of king that had his heart hardened by the god so that the god can show its power.

malvisguy212:
Bible illiteracy. the question you supposed to ask is what kind of king will ignore 9 deadly plague and ignorantly allow the firstborn of his people killed ? God allowed the first-born to be killed as a judgment upon Pharaoh as a proof of God's superiority and as a prophetic representation of the death of His Son, Jesus.

You'd have to ask this after asking why the Lord is said to have [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+7%3A3-5&version=NIV]hardened the heart of Pharaoh[/url] in the first place just to soften it by inflicting plagues. Is that not like starving ones child just so one could punish it for starving or stealing one's food?

If you read a book on science and believed it without applying some brain power, no matter how much you tried you'd never make the lights come on! Same with the Bible. So thanks op for this questioning thread. Now, think people, and reason!

LordReed:


The kind of king that had his heart hardened by the god so that the god can show its power.

the king was not an innocent man, he was a brutal dictator, he enslaved the Israelites for many years , he even oder the firstborn of the Israelites killed. they bring the wrath of God on themselves with 400 years of slavery.

God was merciful not to destroyed Egypt at a whole just like Sodom and Gomorrah..

Exodus 8:15
15 But when Pharaoh saw that there
was a respite, he hardened his
heart and would not listen to them, as
the LORD had said.

pharaoh harden his own hart.

frosbel2:
Here's a list of bible verses that make one wonder just what sort of God Christians give their lives to in sincere patronage to what they call 'Holy'. If any readers have better examples (and I'm certain there must be) please be sure to add to the list. I know Christians will excuse the worst by saying 'Oh those are Old Testament" so I'll endeavour to try to quote liberally from the New.

Most of those can be found answered here:
http://www.tektoonics.com/test/parody/sab.html

A few additional comments on my part:

And speaking of lying, the bible ends with one. It calls its message 'the good news' and concludes, "I am coming soon." Wrong on the 'soon' bit, and unless we've missed something, no one has come. But I get it, if 2000 years pass, soon after such a length of time must be VERY soon. If 10 000 years pass, soon must be very VERY soon.

Preterism solves this. But even if one rejects preterism, one should note "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8

Honestly, some of these don't even make sense to complain about. #10 bizarrely claims that 2 Samuel 13:8-14 (which it erroneously claims is 2 Kings 13:8-14) indicates "incestuous rape is cool" when it says no such thing; it simply states that it happened. This applies to several other things on the list, where it's simply a description of something that happened rather than any kind of endorsement of it. #11 is especially confusing to me as to what's supposed to be wrong with it, it's simply telling people to not try to pray loudly in order to get attention, what in the world is "abominable" about that? Finally, in regards to #14, murderers and rapists are also included in the list; murderers are explicitly called out, and rapists would fall under the "sexually immoral" (as is translated in the NIV and various other translations; the KJV uses "whoremongers" as its translation).

malvisguy212:


pharaoh harden his own hart.

I don't think so!

3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites. 5 And the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out of it.”
Exodus 7:3-5 New International Version (NIV)

Frosbel2 remove 6, 8, 10, 11 and 14 from that list.

I feel like those are bad faith verses that withers the overall argument of the OP.

Incest was not condoned. The Bible even goes further to record that the children of that incestuous relationship of Lot were to be wiped out by the children of Israel.
The other case of incest by a son of David was also noted as an evil act in the Bible.

Please let's not be like the Christians who lie through their teeth here.

The case of cannibalism was also recorded as an abominable act and it moved the king to action against Elijah.

11 and 14 are totally irrelevant. I don't even know why they are in the list. U could say the same thing for all the commandments of the Bible god and punishment to be meted out for flouting them.

malvisguy212:
the king was not an innocent man, he was a brutal dictator, he enslaved the Israelites for many years , he even oder the firstborn of the Israelites killed. they bring the wrath of God on themselves with 400 years of slavery.

God was merciful not to destroyed Egypt at a whole just like Sodom and Gomorrah..

Exodus 8:15
15 But when Pharaoh saw that there
was a respite, he hardened his
heart and would not listen to them, as
the LORD had said.

pharaoh harden his own hart.

what was the offense of all the firstborn in Egypt? including the babies and livestock

When I used to be religious I never really thought deep about this, in my mind God was perfect, his atrocities where justifiable, his commandments were universal and the fundamentals of morality.

Then I grew up and stop being a mindless sheep, who liked to think the religion he was brought up in, is the one true one, and atheist, Muslims, pagans are going to hell.

I can say the worst part about being indoctrinated is not having a fucking clue you were. Nowadays I like to avoid appealing to "group mentality", that the "group" you're in is right or superior or what not. Whether that group is your religion, or country, or even family. Hold no loyalties... If you're unsure, decide to become neutral and do an external inspection like I did years ago, only believing in verifiable evidence and going to wherever it leads.

And sometimes I find it's pointless arguing with most christians on this because no amount of logic is going to convince them, without them permitting the possibility of being wrong all their years. For the (very) few (Nigerians) who are open minded on the possibility of their religion being false, these little bits of info does make them question their belief.

malvisguy212:
the king was not an innocent man, he was a brutal dictator, he enslaved the Israelites for many years , he even oder the firstborn of the Israelites killed. they bring the wrath of God on themselves with 400 years of slavery.

God was merciful not to destroyed Egypt at a whole just like Sodom and Gomorrah..

Exodus 8:15
15 But when Pharaoh saw that there
was a respite, he hardened his
heart and would not listen to them, as
the LORD had said.

pharaoh harden his own hart.

Exodus 9:12
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

So your god decides that the best way to treat this matter was to kill innocent children? Even Egyptian servants who couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the Israelite's captivity had their children killed.

budaatum:

I don't think so!

3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites. 5 And the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out of it.”
Exodus 7:3-5 New International Version (NIV)

you should have quote all the post. pharroah was a ruthless ruler who had no intention to repent from he even try to kill the baby moses from child birth, so God already knows his plan. God use him to manifest His Glory and His wrath was complete In Romans 9:17–18 Paul says,

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, ‘For this
very purpose I have raised you up, that
I might show my power in you, and
that my name might be proclaimed in
all the earth.’ So then he has mercy on
whomever he wills, and he hardens
whomever he wills.”

TVSA:
what was the offense of all the firstborn in Egypt? including the babies and livestock

wow. you atheists are something els. okay. since you guys like asking stupid question, why is pharroah so wicked that he went as far in killings the Israelites first born ?

LordReed:


Exodus 9:12
And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

So your god decides that the best way to treat this matter was to kill innocent children? Even Egyptian servants who couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the Israelite's captivity had their children killed.

was God the one that harden pharroah heart to killed the Israelites firstborn and enslaved them for 400yrs ?

malvisguy212:
was God the one that harden pharroah heart to killed the Israelites firstborn and enslaved them for 400yrs ?

So he god's solution is to kill the innocents for that crime?

LordReed:


So he god's solution is to kill the innocents for that crime?

so the master who own slaves are innocent and the slaves are not ? Mr honorable atheist indeed

malvisguy212:
you should have quote all the post. pharroah was a ruthless ruler who had no intention to repent from he even try to kill the baby moses from child birth, so God already knows his plan. God use him to manifest His Glory and His wrath was complete In Romans 9:17–18 Paul says,

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, ‘For this
very purpose I have raised you up, that
I might show my power in you, and
that my name might be proclaimed in
all the earth.’ So then he has mercy on
whomever he wills, and he hardens
whomever he wills.”

Paul was trying to explain a conundrum that Exodus had presented and which had always been in contention. The Jews at the time after all critiqued Scripture just as much as we do here, and the Christians in Paul's day must have done so to for Paul to bother attempt to explain it.

Personally, I do not accept that a God would harden Pharoah's heart since it was the hardness of Pharoah's heart that made him enslave others in the first place. Except ancient writers did tend to think some god or another was responsible for whatever they did or whatever happened. The 'age of justification after the fact', some call it. I want to steal other people's land so I justify it by claiming some god told me to. Amusing at best when one steals and dedicates a tenth to God in gratitude. It would help if that god also informed those one steals from so they could just hand it over, I reckon.

malvisguy212:
so the master who own slaves are innocent and the slaves are not ? Mr honorable atheist indeed

How were the Egyptian children masters who owned slaves?

malvisguy212:
was God the one that harden pharroah heart to killed the Israelites firstborn and enslaved them for 400yrs ?

Good question. Which makes one question who decided to write in Scripture that God hardened Pharoah's already hardened heart, and why they wrote it. Which further makes one wonder who was reporting the conversation between God and Moses in the first place.

LordReed:


How were the Egyptian children masters who owned slaves?

so you are telling me that the firstborn of the Egyptian are innocent? firstborn look likes babies to you ?