budaatum:

Paul was trying to explain a conundrum that Exodus had presented and which had always been in contention. The Jews at the time after all critiqued Scripture just as much as we do here, and the Christians in Paul's day must have done so to for Paul to bother attempt to explain it.

Personally, I do not accept that a God would harden Pharoah's heart since it was the hardness of Pharoah's heart that made him enslave others in the first place. Except ancient writers did tend to think some god or another was responsible for whatever they did or whatever happened. The 'age of justification after the fact', some call it. I want to steal other people's land so I justify it by claiming some god told me to. Amusing at best when one steals and dedicates a tenth to God in gratitude. It would help if that god also informed those one steals from so they could just hand it over, I reckon.

malvisguy212:
so you are telling me that the firstborn of the Egyptian are innocent? firstborn look likes babies to you ?

malvisguy212:
see bro. God harden pharroah heart and why ? to let the Israelites go "let my people go" but pharroah heart GROW harden
Exodus 8:32
32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart
this time also, and did not let the
people go.

malvisguy212:
so you are telling me that the firstborn of the Egyptian are innocent? firstborn look likes babies to you ?

frosbel2:
Here's a list of bible verses that make one wonder just what sort of God Christians give their lives to in sincere patronage to what they call 'Holy'. If any readers have better examples (and I'm certain there must be) please be sure to add to the list. I know Christians will excuse the worst by saying 'Oh those are Old Testament" so I'll endeavour to try to quote liberally from the New.

1. God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him: 1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men (50,070)”. Kill 50 000 men for looking at something?

2. You can kill a woman if she seizes a man's private parts without his permission: Deuteronomy 25:11-1: If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

3. Perversity and human trafficking condoned: "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

4. Sex slavery condoned: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8

5. Divorce akin to debauchery: "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18)

6. Cannibalism: "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)

7. If your genitals have been damaged, stay out of church: "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

8. Incest and getting drunk with dad is no problem if the world is running thin on suitable DNA donors: And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36]

9. Looking at a woman with desire is akin to adultery: "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

10. But incestuous rape is cool: And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]

11. Pray in private, and if you do so in church, do so quietly: Matt 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others."

12. If you offend God he will kill you: "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." (Genesis 38:7-10)

13. God smites women, children and often animals with equal gusto, he seems to equal evil and wrong doing by association, rather than by being guilty of the personal, individual act: "Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

14. Rev 21: 8 "liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Eternal damnation for lying? In South Africa murderers and rapists often get released for good behaviur, lying is politics.

And speaking of lying, the bible ends with one. It calls its message 'the good news' and concludes, "I am coming soon." Wrong on the 'soon' bit, and unless we've missed something, no one has come. But I get it, if 2000 years pass, soon after such a length of time must be VERY soon. If 10 000 years pass, soon must be very VERY soon.

malvisguy212:
wow. you atheists are something els. okay. since you guys like asking stupid question, why is pharroah so wicked that he went as far in killings the Israelites first born ?

malvisguy212:
so you are telling me that the firstborn of the Egyptian are innocent? firstborn look likes babies to you ?

malvisguy212:
the king was not an innocent man, he was a brutal dictator, he enslaved the Israelites for many years , he even oder the firstborn of the Israelites killed. they bring the wrath of God on themselves with 400 years of slavery.

malvisguy212:
God was merciful not to destroyed Egypt at a whole just like Sodom and Gomorrah..

LordReed:


The first child born to a family is the first born whether it's still a baby or an adult. It says all the first borns died even of animals. Your question is pointless.

Exodus 11
5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Dantedasz:



You are cracking your head on a concrete wall with this guy. You are trying to fight years of INDOCTRINATION with reason. I envy your patience.

LordReed:


Ah well, sometimes all you can do is try.

Dantedasz:


Try??
The guy does not even know what a first born means or pretends not to know because of indoctrination.....
Good luck in your trying...

Righteousness89:
You Heavily Digressing bro. Try to re-read the Intro of the Topic. All the writer is about is Questioning the Existence of GOD..
And Dts all I am about

LordReed:


So if it is the god perpetrating wholesale slaughter what exactly are you objecting to here:

lomprico:


what is hard to understand there?

NPComplete:
Frosbel2 remove 6, 8, 10, 11 and 14 from that list.

I feel like those are bad faith verses that withers the overall argument of the OP.

Incest was not condoned. The Bible even goes further to record that the children of that incestuous relationship of Lot were to be wiped out by the children of Israel.
The other case of incest by a son of David was also noted as an evil act in the Bible.

Please let's not be like the Christians who lie through their teeth here.

The case of cannibalism was also recorded as an abominable act and it moved the king to action against Elijah.

11 and 14 are totally irrelevant. I don't even know why they are in the list. U could say the same thing for all the commandments of the Bible god and punishment to be meted out for flouting them.

LordReed:


Ah well, sometimes all you can do is try.

lomprico:


It's people like you that makes the likes of the OP to have such mindset about God.