I was watching a video on a debate about islam and a muslim (Maajid Nawaz) said something interesting,

"While being oppressed, we have become oppressors"


Maajid was relating to the islamophobia muslims face in the West but then it gets reversed by muslims oppressing others eg;

-A muslim woman gets her hijab forcibly removed by a white youth
-A muslim man abuses a white woman (pig, s.lut) for dressing in a dinner dress (exposes arms/legs)

--------------------------------------------------


The interesting question here that should be asked is how much do muslims fight for the other side. It is easy to point out offences against your religion but what about the other side? The other side i.e. when members of your own religion oppress others?


-When did you fight for the muslima who chose not to wear the veil but was forced by her friends and family to wear burkha?
-When did you fight for the apostate youth who is maltreated for leaving islam by his family?
-When did you fight for the human rights of the ahmadiyyah muslim or the other minority muslim sect (eg Quranists)?
-When last did you fight for the muslima who fell in love with a non-muslim and is maltreated by her family?


The worst oppressors of atheists are muslims. By a long mile. Atheists face execution in 13 "islamic" countries by the law if they announce their disbelief. When last did you fight for their human rights?



When last did you fight for the other side? Not just your side when Burkhas are banned or Palestine is bombed. What about the other side?

tags; usermane rilwayne01, sissie, Al Baqir, Mazaje, Fulaman198

There are moderates who aren't in support of these oppression of non-muslims by muslims in the name of Islam. But the moderates are often weak in the face of the extremists, they are subject to the extremist who often lead their mosques or schools, organise seminars and prohibit or permit for them. To worsen it, most moderates cannot defend their stance from an Islamic view, they have this defeatist mindset and more often than not believe the extremists are the true muslims keeping the message of God.

usermane: There are moderates who aren't in support of these oppression of non-muslims by muslims in the name of Islam. But the moderates are often weak in the face of the extremists, they are subject to the extremist who often lead their mosques or schools, organise seminars and prohibit or permit for them. To worsen it, most moderates cannot defend their stance from an Islamic view, they have this defeatist mindset and more often than not believe the extremists are the true muslims keeping the message of God.

Whatever the case, the moderates have to speak out.

Evil prospers when good men keep quiet

A good example of muslims oppressing fellow muslims;

FEMALE MUSLIM BOXER HARASSED BY FAMILY AND FRIENDS



[img]Ambreen Sadiq is a boxer. She’s a former UK national champion, has her own business teaching students how to box and coaches in her spare time. A play telling her story is being shown at the Edinburgh Festival.
What's more, she’s only 20 years old. Oh, and a Muslim.
Sadiq has faced serious prejudice from the British Muslim community, her neighbours, her school friends and even some members of her family. They have objected because of her religion, her sex - even what she wears.[/img]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11046093/Female-Muslim-boxer-bringing-shame-on-her-family-has-play-at-Edinburgh-festival.html

^^^^
I couldn't agree more with you that this is a typical case of oppression that need supports from moderates. Those tweets, those messages with threats can't be taken for granted. It gives the sad reality that the muslim world still have a long way to go in recognition of person freedom of beliefs(Quran 2:256). Pakistani Muslims are ultra conservatives and easily provoked.

Nevertheless, good for Ambreen Sadiq, atleast she 's got her natal family on her side and fortunately sharia law in Uk isn't fully implemented yet. I 've seen worse predicament.

TheBigUrban2:


Whatever the case, the moderates have to speak out.

Evil prospers when good men keep quiet

Whatever you say, to me speaking out isn't enough. There is need for delving into theology and religious texts to condemn the actions and ideology of the extremists. Unfortunately, moderates need guts. Many fear for their lives thanks to several moderates getting killed for daring to condemn the extremists.

As a side note, who is a moderate? Cos one doesn't employ violence or physical force to assert his ideology doesn't conclusively make him a moderate. There is no difference btw an ISIS militant or an anti ISIS muslim who believes in establishment of sharia state that will penalise apostacy or proselytism of other faiths.

tbaba1234: The Khawarij

Ali (radiAllahu anhu) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying, "There would arise at the end of the age a people who would be young in age and immature in thought, but they would talk as if their words are the best among the creatures. They would recite the Qur'an, but it would not go beyond their throats, and they would pass through the Deen as an arrow goes through the prey. So when you meet them, kill them, for in their killing you would get a reward with Allah on the Day of Judgment." (Muslim)

Last night, i stated that being anti Boko haram/ISIS doesn't conclusively make one a moderate. Behold i have found an example, a proof.
You can see for yourself, TheBigUrban2. The poster posted this in reference to me. But i believe he has more in common with the historic khawarij sect than me. How many moderates can speak when extremists in compliance with the above tradition are ready to chop of their(moderates) heads?

Untill muslims are ready to confront or question their religious texts(Oral traditions), there can be no lasting end to the oppression and aggression courtesy of muslim extremists. People like the poster may never pick up a gun to kill in the name of an Islamic state but they are no saint, they reinforce and protect the oral traditions, the root of radical/terrorist beliefs among muslims from ever been confronted. Thus, no matter how effective military action against terrorists is, the root of terrorism remain in the muslim culture to sprout in future.

Thank you tbaba1234 for revealing your true face and for giving us another reason why hadith should be rejected.

usermane:

Last night, i stated that being anti Boko haram/ISIS doesn't conclusively make one a moderate. Behold i have found an example, a proof.
You can see for yourself, TheBigUrban2. The poster posted this in reference to me. But i believe he has more in common with the historic khawarij sect than me. How many moderates can speak when extremists in compliance with the above tradition are ready to chop of their(moderates) heads?

Untill muslims are ready to confront or question their religious texts(Oral traditions), there can be no lasting end to the oppression and aggression courtesy of muslim extremists. People like the poster may never pick up a gun to kill in the name of an Islamic state but they are no saint, they reinforce and protect the oral traditions, the root of radical/terrorist beliefs among muslims from ever been confronted. Thus, no matter how effective military action against terrorists is, the root of terrorism remain in the muslim culture to sprout in future.

Thank you tbaba1234 for revealing your true face and for giving us another reason why hadith should be rejected.

See expose!!!

Haba, Tbaba! How can you quote that??!!

You see? Some moderates are just false moderates. They silently support the terror of some extremists right until they are outed.


We need more real moderates to speak up.

usermane:



Thank you tbaba1234 for revealing your true face and for giving us another reason why hadith should be rejected.

Ignorance.

That hadith is about the khawarij, groups like BH and ISIS.. You will see khawarij written on top

It has nothing to do with little old usermane... Any educated muslim knows about the khawarij.

Smh..

If anything, the hadith encourages muslims to fight against those people.

You came here to report your ignorance to your cheerleader.

Islam as it is does not support some things, in islam many things are just black or white it is either you side with islam or side with the non believers and become one of them. . That is where most of the problem begins. . .

tbaba1234:

Ignorance.

That hadith is about the khawarij, groups like BH and ISIS.. You will see khawarij written on top

It has nothing to do with little old usermane... Any educated muslim knows about the khawarij.

Smh..

If anything, the hadith encourages muslims to fight against those people.

You came here to report your ignorance to your cheerleader.

A very good thought, how many educated muslims do we have on nairaland ? Very little

tbaba1234:

Ignorance.

That hadith is about the khawarij, groups like BH and ISIS.. You will see khawarij written on top

It has nothing to do with little old usermane... Any educated muslim knows about the khawarij.

Smh..

If anything, the hadith encourages muslims to fight against those people.

You came here to report your ignorance to your cheerleader.

Wrong. Looking at the thread where you were disagreeing with Usermane, it looked like you were using that hadith with reference to usermane

Cheers01:


Wrong. Looking at the thread where you were disagreeing with Usermane, it looked like you were using that hadith with reference to usermane

You mean the side talk thread, where we talk about anything/everything??

I purposely put khawarij heading so that it is clear what/who the hadith refers to.

Nice thread

Cheers01:
Nice thread

lol...I remembered this thread but I didn't comment. Btw, I didn't see you around. You were on long vacation?. You decided to resurface today

Damn. 4 years, 8 months and 28 days. Can't believe how much I have changed.

Hope you're good, Cheers01?

The thing is that we Muslims are both oppressors and oppressed

abdelrahman:
The thing is that we Muslims are both oppressors and oppressed

speak for yourself, bro. If you are oppressing people, make tawba but refrain from making general statement. I am a muslim and I oppressed no one

Empiree:
speak for yourself, bro. If you are oppressing people, make tawba but refrain from making general statement. I am a muslim and I oppressed no one

who is talking about only one Muslim?

Empiree:
speak for yourself, bro. If you are oppressing people, make tawba but refrain from making general statement. I am a muslim and I oppressed no one

Really? You are indirectly oppressing people by supporting intolerant policies.

A great example is the support for the punishment of atheists in certain sharia countries. You were in support of it when I discussed it with you few years back.

Cheers01:



Really? You are indirectly oppressing people by supporting intolerant policies.

A great example is the support for the punishment of atheists in certain sharia countries. You were in support of it when I discussed it with you few years back.

quote me or it is not true. Seems to me you have motives though. If atheists don't try to persuade people to disbelieve in God or mock religious text or figure I have no problem with them.

Empiree:
quote me or it is not true. Seems to me you have motives though. If atheists don't try to persuade people to disbelieve in God or mock religious text or figure I have no problem with them.

Lies.

You are just lucky that I can't remember exactly when you said such. I dont have the quote, just my memory.

But then again, you have exposed yourself as an oppressor with this your comment.

Muslims are allowed to do Dawah and preach their beliefs. So why would you have a problem with atheists speaking about their disbelief in religion? Do you really have a problem with atheists exercising their freedom as guaranteed by the constitution?

usermane:
Damn. 4 years, 8 months and 28 days. Can't believe how much I have changed.

Hope you're good, Cheers01?

Long time.

You were a Muslim when I first met you. Dem times....

abdelrahman:
who is talking about only one Muslim?

show us where Muslims are oppressing people. Give us example of people they are oppressing?.

Don't quote text because there are many things in texts that are not practiced. You can't use that as point of reference.

Let me help you in case you are confused.

Example of oppression is what we are witnessing in Gaza.



* Israeli/Palestinians conflicts (where Jewish govt, supported by Christian Zionists govts are bombing and enslaving Muslims.


* India/Kashmir conflicts(where Hindus govt are killing, bombing and enslaving Muslims.


* Burma/Rohingya muslim conflicts (where Burmese buddists govt are killing Muslims like chicken and placing them in open concentration camps.


* China/Xinjiang/Uyghurs muslim conflicts (where Chinese buddists govt are killing muslims, restricting their religious practices and forcing them into concentration camps. Destroying their religious centers and Masajid and forcing them to eat Haram.


So show us where muslim govts are killing non muslims in contemporary world?.

Cheers01:



Lies.

You are just lucky that I can't remember exactly when you said such. I dont have the quote, just my memory.

But then again, you have exposed yourself as an oppressor with this your comment.

Muslims are allowed to do Dawah and preach their beliefs. So why would you have a problem with atheists speaking about their disbelief in religion? Do you really have a problem with atheists exercising their freedom as guaranteed by the constitution?

I have forgot long time. I remember you now. You are that atheist guy. Problem with atheists is that they don't know right from wrong. They are confused set of people. Thanks but no thanks. You can not preach atheism to my family or in my community. Not even Christian will allow that. We will counter you diplomatically. It doesn't mean we have to punish you for that. By default, people of the world belief in God (whatever religion it is). But atheists come out in public and insult God.

Cheers01:


Long time.

You were a Muslim when I first met you. Dem times....

Wow, seem like you don't recognize me as a Muslim anymore. Anyway, i don't identify as Muslim anymore, just as I don't identify as non-Muslim or ex-Muslim. I think it's time we stop discussing identities and discuss ideas. I'm just me. That's about it.

Empiree:
I have forgot long time. I remember you now. You are that atheist guy. Problem with atheists is that they don't know right from wrong. They are confused set of people. Thanks but no thanks. You can not preach atheism to my family or in my community. Not even Christian will allow that. We will counter you diplomatically. It doesn't mean we have to punish you for that. By default, people of the world belief in God (whatever religion it is). But atheists come out in public and insult God.

Atheists can preach to any adult, as long as they don't force it. Same with Christians and Muslims.

Everyone has the right to express their religion in a non harassing manner.

Simple.

Cheers01:


Atheists can preach to any adult, as long as they don't force it. Same with Christians and Muslims.

Everyone has the right to express their religion in a non harassing manner.

Simple.

fine. But don't curse God. The moment you do that, you crossed the line. Many of you tend to cross the line. You are the ones exporting all sorts of fasad now

Empiree:
show us where Muslims are oppressing people. Give us example of people they are oppressing?.

Don't quote text because there are many things in texts that are not practiced. You can't use that as point of reference.

Let me help you in case you are confused.

Example of oppression is what we are witnessing in Gaza.



* Israeli/Palestinians conflicts (where Jewish govt, supported by Christian Zionists govts are bombing and enslaving Muslims.


* India/Kashmir conflicts(where Hindus govt are killing, bombing and enslaving Muslims.


* Burma/Rohingya muslim conflicts (where Burmese buddists govt are killing Muslims like chicken and placing them in open concentration camps.


* China/Xinjiang/Uyghurs muslim conflicts (where Chinese buddists govt are killing muslims, restricting their religious practices and forcing them into concentration camps. Destroying their religious centers and Masajid and forcing them to eat Haram.


So show is where muslim govts are killing non muslims in contemporary world?.

Saudi Arabia beheads apostates

Indonesia arrests apostates or atheist bloggers

Pakistan is a place where Christians and non Muslims are killed on the streets over false charges Of blasphemy.

Atheists face execution in 13 Islamic states.


Don't be blind to the problems in your religion

Empiree:
fine. But don't curse God. The morning you do that, you crossed the line. Many of you tend to cross the line. You are the ones exporting all sorts of fasad now

Stop lying. How do atheists cross the line?

Charity begins at home. You can tell your northern Muslims to stop forcing and expecting Christian women to wear hijabs.

You can even see how you yourself crosses the line- assuming all atheist are people whoindult your religion.

Cheers01:



Saudi Arabia beheads apostates

Indonesia arrests apostates or atheist bloggers

Pakistan is a place where Christians and non Muslims are killed on the streets over false charges Of blasphemy.

Atheists face execution in 13 Islamic states.


Don't be blind to the problems in your religion

smh... I even highlighted key points but you failed to see it or deliberately missed it. Compared what you posted here with what I posted. Totally different. Average people killing others in Pakistan is different from govt sanction of persecution that I highlighted above.