OruExpress:
Arabs also tell this myth that they were highly secular minded and scientific and 'led to the european renaissance' because they were introducing ideas from old Greece, india and the far east to europeans and claiming them as their own. When the ideas ran out they stopped their mythical scientific production and capability. It's consistent.

Asking critical questions based on the foundation that there is no 'allah' and religious books + the history around them are fiction. Anything that discourages that thinking (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) are forces that will get in the way when you're in any scientific field. There are great scientists that will emerge for societies that are religious but the religion will almost always be something they had to work in spite. Never an aiding force.

Science is a great thing, and can't be advanced without difficult truths.

It's not a myth, it's a reality based on historical facts. Scholars like ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi, Ibn Sina (Avicenna) , Ibn Khaldun are well known for their contribution to science. Some of the earliest texts on the continent discovered in Timbuktu were written in Fulfude and Songhai which allowed the Sahel to dominate west africa for century. The Muslim world stopped making progress when the education shifted from math, islamic law & science to mainly religion. The decline in Islamic scientific learning in credited according to some Muslims to Al Ghazali in his work titled "The incoherence of philosophers" in which he declared that math, physics are incompatible with Islam (Boko Haram in a sense). While others argue against this assessment and point to Nizam Al Mulk, the grand vizier of the Seljuk Dynasty who made religious learning a more lucrative path to administration at the expanse of Islamic Law and sciences. Whatever the case, it is clear that at the 11th century, Muslims inflicted upon themselves a blow by shifting their educational system and they are living the consequences up until today. While a few a countries like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia are progressively pulling out of this, many other Muslim societies still suffer from this and that obviously has to change.

OruExpress

Further note about the durbar. Durbar in of itself is not a concept in Hausa land. The concept of the parade is called "Hawa" which directly translates to "climb/mount" probably because of its equestrian nature. Now the most popular among them is called "hawan durbar" hence the confusion for most people. What Hawa signifies and how it's celebrated is very different from the Persian origin of the word durbar. Hawa is a ceremony where people parade fully dressed in horse riding regalia carrying mediaeval weapons like swords and sickles and riding on horses and camels. Apart from "hawan durbar" there are others like "hawan daushe", "hawan bariki" and sometimes when a very important person is getting married such a gathering again called "Hawa" may be organised. Just because one of such variations is called durbar does not make it Persian.

Omarbah:

It's not a myth, it's a reality based on historical facts. Scholars like ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi, Ibn Sina (Avicenna) , Ibn Khaldun are well known for their contribution to science. Some of the earliest texts on the continent discovered in Timbuktu were written in Fulfude and Songhai which allowed the Sahel to dominate west africa for century. The Muslim world stopped making progress when the education shifted from math, islamic law & science to mainly religion. The decline in Islamic scientific learning in credited according to some Muslims to Al Ghazali in his work titled "The incoherence of philosophers" in which he declared that math, physics are incompatible with Islam (Boko Haram in a sense). While others argue against this assessment and point to Nizam Al Mulk, the grand vizier of the Seljuk Dynasty who made religious learning a more lucrative path to administration at the expanse of Islamic Law and sciences. Whatever the case, it is clear that at the 11th century, Muslims inflicted upon themselves a blow by shifting their educational system and they are living the consequences up until today. While a few a countries like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia are progressively pulling out of this, many other Muslim societies still suffer from this and that obviously has to change.

100%

OruExpress:
lastly, yes there's a lot of great things to take from other cultures and all cultures should be in the process of taking what works and shedding what doesn't.

But to say the Fulani didn't have institutions before islam is a bit much. I have done extensive research on my own culture before colonialism and what I learned genuinely blew my mind. I don't believe it was or would be different for the Fulani. I implore you to look into that. What we have isn't adaption. It's absorption based on inferiority complex...and that's the difference.

So today we don't have a situation where people are taking in what works elsewhere, and shedding what doesn't work in their own place. That's what we had prior to colonialism. What's happening now is the whole of africa feels so inferior to the outside world that we take in things just because they happen elsewhere, better or not. Sadly, it's the negative that's easy to mimic.

Today we are unique in humanity because we do things that are detached from our survival. In fact, survival and advancement are not our primary motivators, being like others is. This will all end eventually, but the beginning of the process is realizing what's yours and what isn't first, which is why I'm pretty passionate about topics like this.

Really interesting way to put it, i’ve thought about this also and how we can defeat this inferiority complex mindset. The only way i see us defeating it is through building ip Africa and see that we are not less than others, i dont think that the generation which will grow up under a prospering Africa will have this inferiority complex mindset.

Omarbah:


I Even here in Africa, anglophone countries tend to be more industrious than french speaking ones.

Thats because the french colonies are still colonies of France and never gained independence unlike the english colonies(only Huinea got free of france). They have remained as poor as during indepence for except cote dvoire. Most of the coups have been in the french colonies and france control their resources and economy which is why you dont hear about billionaires from these colonies. Imagine what Thomas Sankara was able to do in his 4 years in power unlike his french puppet successor did for 25 years.

I think Babangida is Nupe

Mbakuthegreat:


Thats because the french colonies are still colonies of France and never gained independence unlike the english colonies(only Huinea got free of france). They have remained as poor as during indepence for except cote dvoire. Most of the coups have been in the french colonies and france control their resources and economy which is why you dont hear about billionaires from these colonies. Imagine what Thomas Sankara was able to do in his 4 years in power unlike his french puppet successor did for 25 years.

While France still has influence in those countries, it is quite a stretch to claim that they are still colonized. Cote d'Ivoire for example is akin to a french colony. But the DRC , Congo Brazza, Cameroon are more or less free. Gabon is free. What have they done with the resources they've got? Yes they are getting short changed, but if they had put the proceeds they received to good use, they would have accumulated much power by now to claim sovereignty. Africans sometimes think it is up to the rest of the world to feel sorry for us and change its way. Protest enough and the French will spot mingling in our business. If you were French, and gained much wealth from these African countries, would you have given up influence? Even within Nigeria, different groups hold on tooth and nail to the little power they have.
One of the reasons French speaking countries are behind is their over emphasis on university education instead of the trades. They train people for jobs that do not exist and since they aren't entrepreneurial, they end up spending the day drinking tea. Meanwhile, there are needs for farmers, welders, electricians, plumbers, roofers, furniture manufacturers, construction materials etc. The richest people in those countries are generally "uneducated" ones. They have not been formatted by the educational system that trains functionaries instead of innovators, businessmen, industrialists. Danpullo , who is known as the richest man in francophone Africa is a former truck driver turned businessmen. I know a few others involved in trade, logistics, "import-import" ( we don't export much in Africa). Unsurprisingly, France suffers from the same issues.They are not as entrepreneurial as their Anglo-Saxon counterparts. They have trying to change that with Station F, a startup incubator.

Omarbah:

While France still has influence in those countries, it is quite a stretch to claim that they are still colonized. Cote d'Ivoire for example is akin to a french colony. But the DRC , Congo Brazza, Cameroon are more or less free. Gabon is free. What have they done with the resources they've got? Yes they are getting short changed, but if they had put the proceeds they received to good use, they would have accumulated much power by now to claim sovereignty. Africans sometimes think it is up to the rest of the world to feel sorry for us and change its way. Protest enough and the French will spot mingling in our business. If you were French, and gained much wealth from these African countries, would you have given up influence? Even within Nigeria, different groups hold on tooth and nail to the little power they have.
One of the reasons French speaking countries are behind is their over emphasis on university education instead of the trades. They train people for jobs that do not exist and since they aren't entrepreneurial, they end up spending the day drinking tea. Meanwhile, there are needs for farmers, welders, electricians, plumbers, roofers, furniture manufacturers, construction materials etc. The richest people in those countries are generally "uneducated" ones. They have not been formatted by the educational system that trains functionaries instead of innovators, businessmen, industrialists. Danpullo , who is known as the richest man in francophone Africa is a former truck driver turned businessmen. I know a few others involved in trade, logistics, "import-import" ( we don't export much in Africa). Unsurprisingly, France suffers from the same issues.They are not as entrepreneurial as their Anglo-Saxon counterparts. They have trying to change that with Station F, a startup incubator.

You just confirm that you don’t know what you are talking about in regards to the french colonisation of Africa. Its very much well alive and France has military base in and around its colonies in Africa and has been involved in all the coups in those colonies. The Bongo family of Gabon was put in place by France and their corruptious behaviour is supported by France, if the family is about to act out of order France have the capability to remove them out of power like they recently did with Laurent Gbagbo of Ivory Coast. And they would be easily justified by the west and saying the family is a threat against human rights in Gabon, while they have all these years been supported by France.

As said France has made sure that the french colonies have remained as poor as during independence, till today France has a hold of the economy of it's colonies and majority of the African coups have been in the french colonies starting with Sylvanus Olympio 3 days before planning to announce that they were about to leave C.F.A for a new currency for Togo and one of the latest coups in Ivory Coast against Laurent Gbagbo, all of the coups always happening when french interest was threatened for example before/after a policy change which have seen millions of innocent people dead through the centuries.

C.F.A member countries must deposit 65% plus another 20% for financial liabilities, making the total of 85%. The french colonies therefore have only access to 15% of their own money for national development in any given year. If they are in need of extra money, as they always are, they have to borrow from their own 65% in the French Treasury at commercial rates.

It is also the Colonial Pact that demands that France has the first right to buy or reject any natural resources found in the land of the Francophone countries. So even if the African countries could get better prices elsewhere, they cannot sell to anybody until France says it does not want to buy those natural resources. China has even been fighting against France because they can't enter the market of these colonies successfully and trade, unlike in the English colonies. The times that China has managed to trade with these colonies the payment has been through infrastructure because they can't trade through currency without Frances involvment in the process.

France is nothing without stealing the resources of Africa:

The nuclear power in France that generate electricity get their supply of uranium from Niger.

The France's confectionery / chocolate companies got the main ingredient cocoa beans from Côte d'Ivoire.

France gets her crude oil and natural gas from Gabon, Côte d'Ivoire, Cameroun, Congo-brazzaville, Chad.

The jewelry stores in France get their gold and diamond from Guinea-Conakry, Côte d'Ivoire, Mali, Central African Republic, Burkina Faso...

The coffee that French people drink everyday come from Côte d'Ivoire, Guinea-Conakry...

The fruits( banana, mango, pineapple) in grocery stores in France come from Côte d'Ivoire.

The aluminum and steel for French car and aviation industry, France steals those bauxite ore and iron ore from Guinea-Conakry, Mauritania.

The phosphate that is used to make fertilizer, France goes to Togo to get it at ridiculous price.

Most of the tuna fish in every grocery stores in France come from Côte d'Ivoire.

The cotton used by France textile/clothing companies come from Mali, and Burkina Faso. France gets the manganese from Gabon.

The wood used in France in the construction and furniture industries, the timbers come from Côte d'Ivoire, Central African Republic, Gabon, Cameroun, Guinea...

I can go on and on all day to describe to you how France has been bleeding dry Africa. If France is ranked as one of the richest country in the world in term of GDP per capital is because of her gangsterism economic system against her colonies so-called "ex-colonies". This is why France's destructive relationship with these African countries is called " La Francafrique".

France is nothing without Africa, France is like leech. Her whole life depends on the plundering of African resources.

@Omarbah

To say that the type of christianity is the overall the determinant force on how entreprenaul african countries are is just false(if thats what you are saying) since we are ignoring that the countries in Africa which practises catholism were colonized by France(or Belgium) and France was more vicious than any european colonial power in Africa and still is today. Rwanda and Burundi were colonized by Belgium and both practises catholism. After the genocide in Rwanda, which France had a role in they ended their relationship with them, even diched the french language for English, and with Kagames leadership they have embraced entreprenourship and have been building Rwanda which has been growing consistently under these 25 years unlike their neighbouring country Burundi.

Malawi was an english colony and majority of them practises protestantism. Before 1980 they had similar GDP until Rwanda surpased them which lasted until 1990. They surpased them again in 2010 which have lasted until now and with an increasing gap. If we are going with the logic that catholism and protestantism is ultimately the determinant on how entreprenal a country will turn out then this shouldn’t add up. And Malawi has a bigger population which can generate higher GDP.

Angola which was a portuguese colony and where majority are catholics is the best example. It has been good at extracting its resource and has today the third largest GDP in subsaharan Africa.

Dont ignore that the french colonies where they are muslims have the same economic strugles as their catholic counterparts such as Burkina Faso, Mali, Niger, Senegal and Chad. And a majority in Republic of Congo(Brazzaville) practises protentantism and in DRC its almost the same percentage catholics and protentatism. My point is that the issue is more complicated then catholism vs protentatism.

Mbakuthegreat:


You just confirm that you don’t know what you are talking about in regards to the french colonisation of Africa. Its very much well alive and France has military base in and around its colonies in Africa and has been involved in all the coups in those colonies. The Bongo family of Gabon was put in place by France and their corruptious behaviour is supported by France, if the family is about to act out of order France have the capability to remove them out of power like they recently did with Laurent Gbagbo of Ivory Coast. And they would be easily justified by the west and saying the family is a threat against human rights in Gabon, while they have all these years been supported by France.

As said France has made sure that the french colonies have remained as poor as during independence, till today France has a hold of the economy of it's colonies and majority of the African coups have been in the french colonies starting with Sylvanus Olympio 3 days before planning to announce that they were about to leave C.F.A for a new currency for Togo and one of the latest coups in Ivory Coast against Laurent Gbagbo, all of the coups always happening when french interest was threatened for example before/after a policy change which have seen millions of innocent people dead through the centuries.

C.F.A member countries must deposit 65% plus another 20% for financial liabilities, making the total of 85%. The french colonies therefore have only access to 15% of their own money for national development in any given year. If they are in need of extra money, as they always are, they have to borrow from their own 65% in the French Treasury at commercial rates.

It is also the Colonial Pact that demands that France has the first right to buy or reject any natural resources found in the land of the Francophone countries. So even if the African countries could get better prices elsewhere, they cannot sell to anybody until France says it does not want to buy those natural resources. China has even been fighting against France because they can't enter the market of these colonies successfully and trade, unlike in the English colonies. The times that China has managed to trade with these colonies the payment has been through infrastructure because they can't trade through currency without Frances involvment in the process.

France is nothing without stealing the resources of Africa:

The nuclear power in France that generate electricity get their supply of uranium from Niger.

The France's confectionery / chocolate companies got the main ingredient cocoa beans from Côte d'Ivoire.

France gets her crude oil and natural gas from Gabon, Côte d'Ivoire, Cameroun, Congo-brazzaville, Chad.

The jewelry stores in France get their gold and diamond from Guinea-Conakry, Côte d'Ivoire, Mali, Central African Republic, Burkina Faso...

The coffee that French people drink everyday come from Côte d'Ivoire, Guinea-Conakry...

The fruits( banana, mango, pineapple) in grocery stores in France come from Côte d'Ivoire.

The aluminum and steel for French car and aviation industry, France steals those bauxite ore and iron ore from Guinea-Conakry, Mauritania.

The phosphate that is used to make fertilizer, France goes to Togo to get it at ridiculous price.

Most of the tuna fish in every grocery stores in France come from Côte d'Ivoire.

The cotton used by France textile/clothing companies come from Mali, and Burkina Faso. France gets the manganese from Gabon.

The wood used in France in the construction and furniture industries, the timbers come from Côte d'Ivoire, Central African Republic, Gabon, Cameroun, Guinea...

I can go on and on all day to describe to you how France has been bleeding dry Africa. If France is ranked as one of the richest country in the world in term of GDP per capital is because of her gangsterism economic system against her colonies so-called "ex-colonies". This is why France's destructive relationship with these African countries is called " La Francafrique".

France is nothing without Africa, France is like leech. Her whole life depends on the plundering of African resources.

All of the resources you are naming here are bought by other countries just like France. China, the U.S, Canada and others have multinationals operating in the countries you have named and yet you don't seem to be blaming them for their lack of development. A good example would be Guinea. The biggest mining companies are American and recently Chinese. CBG, the largest bauxite company owned partly by the government was formed with Alcoa, a major US aluminum producer. Yet, I don't see people blaming America for Guinea's lag. The fact is, these countries have never had a policy to move up the value chain. Guinea is only recently building the dams necessary to refine the bauxite into Aluminum (energy intensive). From independence until today, not a gram of Aluminum has been produced in that country. It isn't anyone's fault by Guineans'.
Cote d'Ivoire had its strongest growth when French influence was at its peak during Houphouet's presidency ( Ivorian miracle). But his inability to find a suitable successor and Africans' inability to agree created a political crisis that the country is still recovering from. And it isn't even over, Gbagbo is out and might run for office in 2020. Nearly thirty years after Houphouet's death, three men ( ADO, Gbagbo and Bedie) are still the ones running the country.
Nigeria have had coups, a lot more than Cote d'Ivoire. Ghana have had more coups than Cote d'Ivoire and yet they are more advanced because they built a political system that allows for free elections and a peaceful transition of power from one person to another. Tanzania have had that system for a long time now. You can't ignore our own inability to solve our problems and constantly blame others. I refuse to do that. We don't plan long term. We are not ambitious enough. We always blame others what we do ourselves.
I hear this often, that France is nothing without Africa . It shows how much we are ignorant about what makes a country powerful. France has abundant agricultural resources, an extensive river system for internal transport which allowed it by the way to be the foremost European land power for centuries and consolidate its territory. It is one of the only country that is both a northern and southern power. These advantages are what make a country's strength. Mineral resources rarely determine whether or not a country is successful. Japan doesn't have any and yet they are the 3rd economic power. If you can produce food, transport stuff around your territory cheaply, have ports to trade with the outside world, can maintain a cohesive society and have an educational system to train workers and make them more productive then you will be successful. You can buy most of inputs you need. Our inability to build viable states is our greatest handicap, not foreign powers. Little France can't do a damn thing to west Africans if we were united. We are like a herd of sheep behind led by a German shepherd. Our lack of unity and action is our weakness, not the imagined strength of the dog.

Senegal is using CFA ( I am against it by the way), but since they are serious, disciplined, cohesive and have a functional state, they are able to make some progress even if it is small but gradual. Cote Ivoire could have surpassed Ghana if it was more cohesive. They could even have France station soldiers there. Japan is occupied by America but it doesn't change a thing about their economic power.

Mbakuthegreat:
@Omarbah

To say that the type of christianity is the overall the determinant force on how entreprenaul african countries are is just false(if thats what you are saying) since we are ignoring that the countries in Africa which practises catholism were colonized by France(or Belgium) and France was more vicious than any european colonial power in Africa and still is today. Rwanda and Burundi were colonized by Belgium and both practises catholism. After the genocide in Rwanda, which France had a role in they ended their relationship with them, even diched the french language for English, and with Kagames leadership they have embraced entreprenourship and have been building Rwanda which has been growing consistently under these 25 years unlike their neighbouring country Burundi.

Malawi was an english colony and majority of them practises protestantism. Before 1980 they had similar GDP until Rwanda surpased them which lasted until 1990. They surpased them again in 2010 which have lasted until now and with an increasing gap. If we are going with the logic that catholism and protestantism is ultimately the determinant on how entreprenal a country will turn out then this shouldn’t add up. And Malawi has a bigger population which can generate higher GDP.

Angola which was a portuguese colony and where majority are catholics is the best example. It has been good at extracting its resource and has today the third largest GDP in subsaharan Africa.

Dont ignore that the french colonies where they are muslims have the same economic strugles as their catholic counterparts such as Burkina Faso, Mali, Niger, Senegal and Chad. And a majority in Republic of Congo(Brazzaville) practises protentantism and in DRC its almost the same percentage catholics and protentatism. My point is that the issue is more complicated then catholism vs protentatism.

I didn't say that religion SIMPLY determined economic success. Rather, I said it makes a difference and have given a few examples, Quebec vs rest of Canada, USA vs Argentina, Englad vs France among others. You have geography, climate and other historical factors that come into play but culture also plays a role.
Well I am glad you brought up Rwanda. Those currently leading that country are the Tutsi diaspora that grew up in Uganda , Tanzania and Kenya. Kagame in particular was an officer of the Ugandan army and was also trained in the U.S. This diaspora has a completely different mindset. You can see the changes yourself. Burundi next door is always in trouble meanwhile Rwanda is building a state and a real economy.

Malawai went through a famine (geography ) so we have to factor that in. Still though, they are ahead of Burundi, whose president love to play rigged soccer games.

On Angola, again, religion and culture can be a factor but not necessarily the determinant and that has been my argument all along. They have been great at extracting oil money and yet have wasted it in building it in building a shiny capital often the most expansive city in the world while the rest of the country is dirt poor. They should have used the money to build their productive capacities, train , put people to work and connect the country. Yet, they are busy suppressing the Ovimbundu tribe.

Why is North America substantially better than the South hummm? Why has Venezuela wasted its vast oil wealth ( mind you they were the richest in Latin America not too long ago)? Why is britsh canada better than french canada? Why are Nigerians more entrepreneurial than their french speaking west african brothers? Why are the best run countries former british colonies and on ALL continents? This is not a coincidence. Some cultures are better than other at building and maintain wealth.

JikanBaura:


Lol i seriously was hoping to see an explanation of how to handpicked whose hausa and whose fulani in mids of crowds. But it's turned out that your thread title is actually a question with missing question mark.

Anyway I'm Hausa and I'm having difficulty doing just that, fails like 8th, 7th in 10th attempts to pickout whose hausa amongs these three ethnic groups Hausa, Fulani and songhai (zabarmawa). It's weird that i even tried to do that lol but i tried but failed woefully (crying)

(Smile) i can help you with tip to identify Fulani. Every person you see herding cattles is Fulani.. Lol hope that's help.


Buhari said in an interview that's he's Fulani to his father side, Kanuri to his maternal grandfather side and Hausa to mertanal grandmother side. What a mixed � That's a rear gene. But i will say he's Fulani cuz you are what you looks like.

Dangote identify as Hausa Though fulani to his mother's side whose father is Hausa and mother is Fulani. Lol Dangote is Hausa.

IBB is Hausa because that's what his father is.

Here is the thing, to know what tribe anyone from North belongs to, Just ask what tribe is their father, Once they tell you that then that's their actual Tribe. In Hausa culture our society don't even recognize our daughters children as hausa once married to a none Hausa.

You tried with your explanation.
In short, the term Hausa-Fulani is accurate since you have to ask to know which tribe someone belongs to.

@Omarbah You are acting like there haven’t been leaders who have tried developing those nations, they have been and got ousted when the agenda wen’t against France. Its not about the number of coups in that single country, as long as the puppet is doing his job there is no reason to oust him which is why Omar Bongo was in power for that long. The thing with those coups in Ghana and Nigeria, the people were the ones behind the planing of them, in the coups in the french colonies its France whos behind them and when it has successfully removed a rogue puppet it will place in another, how can these nation advance their political system when its not them who are even putting in its leaders and controling its policies? Again you cant compare English colonies to French, and this is not new information, these colonies never gained independence and only further autonomy. If you think its just as simple as putting in someone with a vision( Like Thomas Sankara) in those colonies and they will start to prosper then we won’t get far in this conversation. The only hope for those colonies to develope to its fulest is to remove french influence. Lukily in France, far right parties are rising who reject globalism and has been an opposition in french influence in Africa.

I wont deny that U.K has a more entrepreneurial mindset than France but theres no indication that its based on what type of christianity they practise. There is much to put together in terms of development and why it varies with the English and French colonies, but i do also think English is a more of an economic language than french, and its good to remember how U.K deals with its colonies vs how france does, with the UK from an economic stance. The english colonies got its education culture from U.K while the french got it from french so that entrepreneurial culture could have easily been transfered that way. I’ve already given you different muslim countries colonized by france such as Chad that are in the same situation as the catholics. We can only see clearly once France is gone, and i dont know how i can put the blame on France, if you have a leech you have to remove it to stop it from leeching of you, we’ve failed that after centuries of successful coups organised by France.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY8pCRSBd_o

Mbakuthegreat:


Really interesting way to put it, i’ve thought about this also and how we can defeat this inferiority complex mindset. The only way i see us defeating it is through building ip Africa and see that we are not less than others, i dont think that the generation which will grow up under a prospering Africa will have this inferiority complex mindset.

The Japanese have an inferiority complex to Europeans. We have to build up ourselves internally then the external will flow out. That's why I emphasize learning who we are, from there well known what we want and how to get it.

I dont think the prosperity will come first. Real education, reorientation, and culture building through a greater philosophy focus and discipline. From this science and understanding flourish then the economics and social comfort. We also need to dissolve Nigeria nobody is benefiting from this.

OruExpress:


The Japanese have an inferiority complex to Europeans. We have to build up ourselves internally then the external will flow out. That's why I emphasize learning who we are, from there well known what we want and how to get it.

I dont think the prosperity will come first. Real education, reorientation, and culture building through a greater philosophy focus and discipline. From this science and understanding flourish then the economics and social comfort. We also need to dissolve Nigeria nobody is benefiting from this.

I still think building up Africa will have a huge effect on our inferiority complex, it says a lot to our children when we are dying to get to the white mans land because we’ve failed building out own. I’ve been in the west for some times now and black people here dont date each other, especially the ones born here, they all date white partners even though a lot of them grow up around black people. In U.K the black community is dissapearing and being replaces by their mixed ofsprings, there are now more mixed children than black, while communities such as the asians, pakistani and indians, are growing because they only date each other and thus build wealth within themselves. The samein France, lots of black men chasing white women or nothern africans, non black women. I would say that people in Botswana have less inferiority complex issues then those in Kenya since Botswana has managed to build up its country well today.

Interesting to your view in regards to Nigeria, it working would be the best for us, it can become a world economic and military superpower of africa, in every continent the country with the highest population is the superpower, Brazil, U.S, China, Nigeria, Germany(not counting transcontinent Russia). But i do agree that it can only happen once Nigeria fix its political system, remove tribalism and so on.

Mbakuthegreat:
@Omarbah You are acting like there haven’t been leaders who have tried developing those nations, they have been and got ousted when the agenda wen’t against France. Its not about the number of coups in that single country, as long as the puppet is doing his job there is no reason to oust him which is why Omar Bongo was in power for that long. The thing with those coups in Ghana and Nigeria, the people were the ones behind the planing of them, in the coups in the french colonies its France whos behind them and when it has successfully removed a rogue puppet it will place in another, how can these nation advance their political system when its not them who are even putting in its leaders and controling its policies? Again you cant compare English colonies to French, and this is not new information, these colonies never gained independence and only further autonomy. If you think its just as simple as putting in someone with a vision( Like Thomas Sankara) in those colonies and they will start to prosper then we won’t get far in this conversation. The only hope for those colonies to develope to its fulest is to remove french influence. Lukily in France, far right parties are rising who reject globalism and has been an opposition in french influence in Africa.

I wont deny that U.K has a more entrepreneurial mindset than France but theres no indication that its based on what type of christianity they practise. There is much to put together in terms of development and why it varies with the English and French colonies, but i do also think English is a more of an economic language than french, and its good to remember how U.K deals with its colonies vs how france does, with the UK from an economic stance. The english colonies got its education culture from U.K while the french got it from french so that entrepreneurial culture could have easily been transfered that way. I’ve already given you different muslim countries colonized by france such as Chad that are in the same situation as the catholics. We can only see clearly once France is gone, and i dont know how i can put the blame on France, if you have a leech you have to remove it to stop it from leeching of you, we’ve failed that after centuries of successful coups organised by France.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY8pCRSBd_o

I've watched that video multiple times before. All the countries you listed, Chad, Mali, Burkina are landlocked Sahelian countries. You cannot compare them to say Ghana or Kenya. Comparison should be made between two countries that have similar geography and have port access thus the choice to compare Cote d'Ivoire and Ghana. The former was more advanced than the latter up until the early 90s. They were many Ghanaian immigrants in their Cote d'Ivoire during Houphouet's days and yet he was a French puppet. Why was he able to build his country? Simply because he was shrewd politician who knew how to maintain cohesion. Unfortunately, African presidents love to die in power so the transition after him was problematic. That's the reason for their lag, not the french presence. A higher growth in Cote d'Ivoire is in France's interests since they could export more goods like agricultural products, champagne which Africans love to buy. The French presence actually makes the country more secure, it does make them more dependent but that shouldn't stop them from making economic progress. Both Japan and South Korea have American military bases but they are economic powerhouse due to their leaders' foresight and planning , their discipline and cohesive societies.
As for the differences between Protestant ethics and Catholics, I'll leave you this excerpt from an article among many that will give you insight.
"In a paper written in 2009 for the Quarterly Journal of Economics, entitled Was Weber Wrong?, Becker and Woessmann argue that Protestants were more successful because they had the advantage of a better and longer education. Further research has led them to conclude that the educational advantage began soon after Martin Luther broke away from the established Church in the 16th century and has continued to play its part in creating economic success throughout Europe.

Luther wanted women as well as men to be able to read the Bible, he points out. Not only did his followers set out to establish church schools in every parish, but girls went there as well as boys, he says. "We looked into the records of school building in the German federal state of Brandenburg in the 16th century, and discovered that there were disproportionately more girls in school than boys. Protestantism, it seems, was an early driver of emancipation. At that time, remember, Catholic areas didn't even have any boys' schools."

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/oct/31/economics-religion-research

Omarbah:

I've watched that video multiple times before. All the countries you listed, Chad, Mali, Burkina are landlocked Sahelian countries. You cannot compare them to say Ghana or Kenya. Comparison should be made between two countries that have similar geography and have port access thus the choice to compare Cote d'Ivoire and Ghana. The former was more advanced than the latter up until the early 90s. They were many Ghanaian immigrants in their Cote d'Ivoire during Houphouet's days and yet he was a French puppet. Why was he able to build his country? Simply because he was shrewd politician who knew how to maintain cohesion. Unfortunately, African presidents love to die in power so the transition after him was problematic. That's the reason for their lag, not the french presence. A higher growth in Cote d'Ivoire is in France's interests since they could export more goods like agricultural products, champagne which Africans love to buy. The French presence actually makes the country more secure, it does make them more dependent but that shouldn't stop them from making economic progress. Both Japan and South Korea have American military bases but they are economic powerhouse due to their leaders' foresight and planning , their discipline and cohesive societies.
As for the differences between Protestant ethics and Catholics, I'll leave you this excerpt from an article among many that will give you insight.
"In a paper written in 2009 for the Quarterly Journal of Economics, entitled Was Weber Wrong?, Becker and Woessmann argue that Protestants were more successful because they had the advantage of a better and longer education. Further research has led them to conclude that the educational advantage began soon after Martin Luther broke away from the established Church in the 16th century and has continued to play its part in creating economic success throughout Europe.

Luther wanted women as well as men to be able to read the Bible, he points out. Not only did his followers set out to establish church schools in every parish, but girls went there as well as boys, he says. "We looked into the records of school building in the German federal state of Brandenburg in the 16th century, and discovered that there were disproportionately more girls in school than boys. Protestantism, it seems, was an early driver of emancipation. At that time, remember, Catholic areas didn't even have any boys' schools."

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/oct/31/economics-religion-research

@Omarbah as i thought this conversation isn’t going to go far if you think the presence of France is helping those colonies, again there is no proof of that infact most of them have remained as poor as during independence. Tell me what minerals does Japan have that U.S is after? And France doesn’t care about those nations developing, its care about getting what it wants, for example resources such as Uranium and as long as that puppet president can supply it there is no problem, it can either stay as poor or develope a bit like Cote dvoire as long as it follows french policies. And U.S and France has different policies, the same as we cant say that U.K and France have had the same policies with its colonies and ex colonies, ehich will bring different results which are quite clear when you look at Africa today.

How has those tens of coups kept those colonies secure? Tell me how did the coup against Thomas Sankara keep Burkina Faso secure, only for some 25 years later after the puppet out in place by France getting run out by an and angry young population? If its the problem of those african politicians then who is helping them stay in power for life if not no other than France? Who had supplied the weapons for the coups when it finally wants to remove them out of power? And you talk about france providing security to those colonies. This is stockholm syndrome which will not help Africa. If we cant see how those colonies are still slaves to France while you even have french opposition parties such as National Rally condemning France for its involvement in the coups of Africa then we are meant to be slaves forever, this is the definition of Stockholm syndrome.

@Omarbah To further on that african presidents like to die in power, most of those have infact not been in english colonies but French. Is it a coincidence that the english colonies enjoy a more political stability then their french counterparts? The distinction is clear. Is it due to protentatism vs catholism?

Mbakuthegreat:


I still think building up Africa will have a huge effect on our inferiority complex, it says a lot to our children when we are dying to get to the white mans land because we’ve failed building out own. I’ve been in the west for some times now and black people here dont date each other, especially the ones born here, they all date white partners even though a lot of them grow up around black people. In U.K the black community is dissapearing and being replaces by their mixed ofsprings, there are now more mixed children than black, while communities such as the asians, pakistani and indians, are growing because they only date each other and thus build wealth within themselves. The samein France, lots of black men chasing white women or nothern africans, non black women. I would say that people in Botswana have less inferiority complex issues then those in Kenya since Botswana has managed to build up its country well today.

Interesting to your view in regards to Nigeria, it working would be the best for us, it can become a world economic and military superpower of africa, in every continent the country with the highest population is the superpower, Brazil, U.S, China, Nigeria, Germany(not counting transcontinent Russia). But i do agree that it can only happen once Nigeria fix its political system, remove tribalism and so on.

I think you have to get rid of your inferiority complex first. If you aim to be advanced you have to compete with the rest of the world and think 'how can I do this better than them'. As it stands, this thought process doesnt exist in Nigeria. so we do everything to a lower standard than whites because be believe its only natural. When they pass free healthcare and we cant keep paint on a hospital's wall theres no pressure, no shame and no sense of urgency because this is how it's supposed to be.

Can you imagine that Nigeria is still using an anti-black school curriculum from 100 years ago because white people wrote it and we cant imagine doing better? If we want development we have to want to be better than the west and this is a line of thinking that next to no Nigerian thinks is humanly possible so were contact being 60 years behind and feel we've arrived when were 50 years behind.

Even our resources. Did you know that trump put a pile of papers in Buharis face and he signed them without question? Can a Nigerian go to a negotiation table with a white Asian or Arab and feel hes talking to an equal? Many will be content telling others they met a non black. This is why 80% of the Netherlands government budget comes from unaudited Nigerian oil money.

Wikileaks even said theres no need to spy on Nigeria because if you ask they'll tell you.

OruExpress:


I think you have to get rid of your inferiority complex first. If you aim to be advanced you have to compete with the rest of the world and think 'how can I do this better than them'. As it stands, this thought process doesnt exist in Nigeria. so we do everything to a lower standard than whites because be believe its only natural. When they pass free healthcare and we cant keep paint on a hospital's wall theres no pressure, no shame and no sense of urgency because this is how it's supposed to be.

Can you imagine that Nigeria is still using an anti-black school curriculum from 100 years ago because white people wrote it and we cant imagine doing better? If we want development we have to want to be better than the west and this is a line of thinking that next to no Nigerian thinks is humanly possible so were contact being 60 years behind and feel we've arrived when were 50 years behind.

Even our resources. Did you know that trump put a pile of papers in Buharis face and he signed them without question? Can a Nigerian go to a negotiation table with a white Asian or Arab and feel hes talking to an equal? Many will be content telling others they met a non black. This is why 80% of the Netherlands government budget comes from unaudited Nigerian oil money.

Wikileaks even said theres no need to spy on Nigeria because if you ask they'll tell you.

LOL

Mbakuthegreat:


@Omarbah as i thought this conversation isn’t going to go far if you think the presence of France is helping those colonies, again there is no proof of that infact most of them have remained as poor as during independence. Tell me what minerals does Japan have that U.S is after? And France doesn’t care about those nations developing, its care about getting what it wants, for example resources such as Uranium and as long as that puppet president can supply it there is no problem, it can either stay as poor or develope a bit like Cote dvoire as long as it follows french policies. And U.S and France has different policies, the same as we cant say that U.K and France have had the same policies with its colonies and ex colonies, ehich will bring different results which are quite clear when you look at Africa today.

How has those tens of coups kept those colonies secure? Tell me how did the coup against Thomas Sankara keep Burkina Faso secure, only for some 25 years later after the puppet out in place by France getting run out by an and angry young population? If its the problem of those african politicians then who is helping them stay in power for life if not no other than France? Who had supplied the weapons for the coups when it finally wants to remove them out of power? And you talk about france providing security to those colonies. This is stockholm syndrome which will not help Africa. If we cant see how those colonies are still slaves to France while you even have french opposition parties such as National Rally condemning France for its involvement in the coups of Africa then we are meant to be slaves forever, this is the definition of Stockholm syndrome.

1) For the n-th time, religion is NOT a determinant factor in a country's success but it plays a role that cannot be ignored. I have repeated that multiple times on previous comments and have even given you a link to an article that proves with hard data that European countries that mostly Catholics face worse economic conditions that those who are protestant. I have given you the example of Quebec versus the rest of Canada. I have given U.S.A vs Argentina. There are multiple other factors that determine a country's success and enumerated them already. These cultural differences have reverberated on Africa. The culture of hard work, business drive, entrepreneurship exist more in anglophone countries than it does in francophone ones. It exists more protestant countries than it does in catholic ones where the state tends to play a bigger role. I can send you countless articles on the subject.

2) Of course I'd prefer for France to leave our countries. They would recover their full sovereignty. But the presence of French forces do not explain the backwardness of those countries. What's valid for Cote d'Ivoire is valid for Senegal (CFA, France base) but while the latter has been able to build a good political system with peaceful transition of power, the former has not been and you can see that despite the resources Cote d'Ivoire has, Senegal has been making small but gradual progress. They will soon start to exploit oil and I am glad for them. May Allah bless that country. There are no tribal, ethnic or religious issues. Minorities come to power regularly . It's a Muslim country whose first president was Catholic and from a minority. Guinea has neither CFA nor French bases since 1958 and yet the country has been incapable on building a viable economy. Who is to blame for that? Cote d'Ivoire would be far ahead if after Houphouet's death in 1993, they had a peaceful transition. Bedie was a french protege. He fled the presidential palace through a tunnel that linked him to the french embassy. And Gbagbo never truly challenged France. Bedie and he played the ethnic card, ostracized millions of northerners which led to the rebellion. Of course, elements of french capitalism profited from the division. But it was Bedie who started dividing people. The French didn't have a remote control attached to his mind to force him to create the concept of "Ivoirité ".
So please don't misconstrue me. I am all for France and all foreign influence to end in Africa. But we have to look inward also , question ourselves if we want to move forward. Nigeria would be more cohesive if the country had an efficient administration. For example, do you think Texas would take it lightly if Washington were to be in control of the oil in the delta? Then why are people surprised if the Niger Delta boys aren't happy with the status, blow up pipeline and setup their own clandestine refineries? You'll notice this irrationality in almost all of our policies. When it goes wrong, foreign powers take advantage of it then we blame them.

I'll give one last example to finish. The Biafra war. You'll see many people accuse France of instigating it when in fact they were taking advantage of a situation created by Nigerians by the massacres the Igbos faced in other parts of the country in 1966. France and other western powers don't just invite themselves. We invite them through our division. It was ADO and other pro rebels in Cote d'Ivoire who invited the French. Today those same french are gone from Senegal . And some day, Senegal will get out of CFA or move to change its structure but meanwhile they are making the best out of what they have.

OruExpress:


I think you have to get rid of your inferiority complex first. If you aim to be advanced you have to compete with the rest of the world and think 'how can I do this better than them'. As it stands, this thought process doesnt exist in Nigeria. so we do everything to a lower standard than whites because be believe its only natural. When they pass free healthcare and we cant keep paint on a hospital's wall theres no pressure, no shame and no sense of urgency because this is how it's supposed to be.

Can you imagine that Nigeria is still using an anti-black school curriculum from 100 years ago because white people wrote it and we cant imagine doing better? If we want development we have to want to be better than the west and this is a line of thinking that next to no Nigerian thinks is humanly possible so were contact being 60 years behind and feel we've arrived when were 50 years behind.

Even our resources. Did you know that trump put a pile of papers in Buharis face and he signed them without question? Can a Nigerian go to a negotiation table with a white Asian or Arab and feel hes talking to an equal? Many will be content telling others they met a non black. This is why 80% of the Netherlands government budget comes from unaudited Nigerian oil money.

Wikileaks even said theres no need to spy on Nigeria because if you ask they'll tell you.

Nigerians in the U.S are one of the most successful minority group. They have a high self esteem and their children regularly make the news for being admitted to top schools. They thrive in America because there is an actual state that doesn't put barriers in front of them. West Africans in general have high self confidence borderline arrogant. Go to the top universities and engineering schools, you'll see Africans.
The problem in most African countries is that politics are run by the mediocre ones. Politics are so toxic that the most brilliant of our people stay away from it. Nepotism does not create an efficient administration. So I'd say Naija needs to further transfer more power to the states and let them get a bigger share of their mineral wealth. The Niger delta should be a rich region . The only concern for the rest of country is availability of oil and gas for their use but most of the wealth should go to the locals. Texas is rich because their oil money stays there. It doesn't go to Washington (except for tax dollars) to enrich fat belly politicians .
If I were an Ijaw, I would have blown up pipelines too. It's Bullsh*t that those folks in Abuja should be rich while the people whose land the oil is extracted from are poor.

OruExpress:


why 80% of the Netherlands government budget comes from unaudited Nigerian oil money.

Wikileaks even said theres no need to spy on Nigeria because if you ask they'll tell you.

Come on now. 80% of their budget? Be serious. You would have seen it on the revenue portion of the ledger.

OruExpress:


I think you have to get rid of your inferiority complex first. If you aim to be advanced you have to compete with the rest of the world and think 'how can I do this better than them'. As it stands, this thought process doesnt exist in Nigeria. so we do everything to a lower standard than whites because be believe its only natural. When they pass free healthcare and we cant keep paint on a hospital's wall theres no pressure, no shame and no sense of urgency because this is how it's supposed to be.

Can you imagine that Nigeria is still using an anti-black school curriculum from 100 years ago because white people wrote it and we cant imagine doing better? If we want development we have to want to be better than the west and this is a line of thinking that next to no Nigerian thinks is humanly possible so were contact being 60 years behind and feel we've arrived when were 50 years behind.

Even our resources. Did you know that trump put a pile of papers in Buharis face and he signed them without question? Can a Nigerian go to a negotiation table with a white Asian or Arab and feel hes talking to an equal? Many will be content telling others they met a non black. This is why 80% of the Netherlands government budget comes from unaudited Nigerian oil money.

Wikileaks even said theres no need to spy on Nigeria because if you ask they'll tell you.

Yes but i say we will get rid of the inferiority complex by building, and we will do that ofcourse by what you are saying, creating our own systems and stop being sheeps to non africans. An example is Magufuli whom is building Tanzania and is far of from a sheep unlike other african presidents. He creates this feeling of ”we are equal to everyone else” which is good.

Omarbah:


1) For the n-th time, religion is NOT a determinant factor in a country's success but it plays a role that cannot be ignored. I have repeated that multiple times on previous comments and have even given you a link to an article that proves with hard data that European countries that mostly Catholics face worse economic conditions that those who are protestant. I have given you the example of Quebec versus the rest of Canada. I have given U.S.A vs Argentina. There are multiple other factors that determine a country's success and enumerated them already. These cultural differences have reverberated on Africa. The culture of hard work, business drive, entrepreneurship exist more in anglophone countries than it does in francophone ones. It exists more protestant countries than it does in catholic ones where the state tends to play a bigger role. I can send you countless articles on the subject.

2) Of course I'd prefer for France to leave our countries. They would recover their full sovereignty. But the presence of French forces do not explain the backwardness of those countries. What's valid for Cote d'Ivoire is valid for Senegal (CFA, France base) but while the latter has been able to build a good political system with peaceful transition of power, the former has not been and you can see that despite the resources Cote d'Ivoire has, Senegal has been making small but gradual progress. They will soon start to exploit oil and I am glad for them. May Allah bless that country. There are no tribal, ethnic or religious issues. Minorities come to power regularly . It's a Muslim country whose first president was Catholic and from a minority. Guinea has neither CFA nor French bases since 1958 and yet the country has been incapable on building a viable economy. Who is to blame for that? Cote d'Ivoire would be far ahead if after Houphouet's death in 1993, they had a peaceful transition. Bedie was a french protege. He fled the presidential palace through a tunnel that linked him to the french embassy. And Gbagbo never truly challenged France. Bedie and he played the ethnic card, ostracized millions of northerners which led to the rebellion. Of course, elements of french capitalism profited from the division. But it was Bedie who started dividing people. The French didn't have a remote control attached to his mind to force him to create the concept of "Ivoirité ".
So please don't misconstrue me. I am all for France and all foreign influence to end in Africa. But we have to look inward also , question ourselves if we want to move forward. Nigeria would be more cohesive if the country had an efficient administration. For example, do you think Texas would take it lightly if Washington were to be in control of the oil in the delta? Then why are people surprised if the Niger Delta boys aren't happy with the status, blow up pipeline and setup their own clandestine refineries? You'll notice this irrationality in almost all of our policies. When it goes wrong, foreign powers take advantage of it then we blame them.

I'll give one last example to finish. The Biafra war. You'll see many people accuse France of instigating it when in fact they were taking advantage of a situation created by Nigerians by the massacres the Igbos faced in other parts of the country in 1966. France and other western powers don't just invite themselves. We invite them through our division. It was ADO and other pro rebels in Cote d'Ivoire who invited the French. Today those same french are gone from Senegal . And some day, Senegal will get out of CFA or move to change its structure but meanwhile they are making the best out of what they have.

When you have a president like alpha conde in Guinea who is donating money for the rebuilding of Notre Dame while his people are starving you have to ask yourself where the loyalty lay. I’m not denying that we’ve have africans playing in the role of the current situations in french colonies for their own gaines instead of the nation. Lets hope for a better future of those colonies, there is has began a governmental shift in europe and France and it maybe to their advantage one day.

Mbakuthegreat:


When you have a president like alpha conde in Guinea who is donating money for the rebuilding of Notre Dame while his people are starving you have to ask yourself where the loyalty lay. I’m not denying that we’ve have africans playing in the role of the current situations in french colonies for their own gaines instead of the nation. Lets hope for a better future of those colonies, there is has began a governmental shift in europe and France and it maybe to their advantage one day.

I saw those reports but don't know how accurate it is. The previous leaders didn't do much to develop infrastructure and move the country up the value chain so he isn't to blame really. He has been building dams (overpriced) but lack the intellect to truly move the country forward. Most of the dams built will not function to full capacity so it has been a waste while the country and many other African ones can import gas from Nigeria or Algeria. But hey, we are slow and love to talk to about how we are the continent of the future. We should have restructured our economies since the 60s but today, Africa's economy hasn't changed from colonial days. We build infrastructure to export minerals and then import finished goods.

Omarbah:

I saw those reports but don't know how accurate it is. The previous leaders didn't do much to develop infrastructure and move the country up the value chain so he isn't to blame really. He has been building dams (overpriced) but lack the intellect to truly move the country forward. Most of the dams built will not function to full capacity so it has been a waste while the country and many other African ones can import gas from Nigeria or Algeria. But hey, we are slow and love to talk to about how we are the continent of the future. We should have restructured our economies since the 60s but today, Africa's economy hasn't changed from colonial days. We build infrastructure to export minerals and then import finished goods.

The frontier for African development will come from the English colonies, Magufuli is one of few african president who i regard as a leader, whom has been building infrastructure without indebting Tanzania and also stopped exportation of unprocessed minerals. Our economy will go throufh the catch up effect, like right now you have different foreign companies moving to countries such as Ethiopia for cheap labour and its this which will help african economy. We just have to make africa investment friendly.

Mbakuthegreat:


The frontier for African development will come from the English colonies, Magufuli is one of few african president who i regard as a leader, whom has been building infrastructure without indebting Tanzania and also stopped exportation of unprocessed minerals. Our economy will go throufh the catch up effect, like right now you have different foreign companies moving to countries such as Ethiopia for cheap labour and its this which will help african economy. We just have to make africa investment friendly.

Yep and those of us who live in the west have to learn whatever they can, save and invest ourselves.

Omarbah:

Yep and those of us who live in the west have to learn whatever they can, save and invest ourselves.

Yeas, its essential that the diaspora return home, if educated diasporans returned and demanded better by their government that would be good and if its to no veil they need to learn migrating to other african countries and not to europe or non african countries and make them richer.

Lol ka kyale mutanen nan. Burin su su ga hausawa da Fulani na gaba. Zasu bushe suna jira.

Hhh wallhi abinda na lura dashi kenan, Makiyan Allah hakan ba zata taba faruwa ba ko.

Good banter