My Oga.

I am struggling with the bolded comparison a bit - 48v 50Ah is about 2.4kwh of energy stored - a standard 2hp AC could easily draw up to 2kw instantaneous or 2kwh in 1 hour - would you be planning to run your 2hp AC for just a little over an hour in a real life application?

All things being equal, a 48v 400Ah lead acid bank should outperform a 48v 50Ah Lithium bank on nearly all metrics.

We need to be careful with these comparisons so that lay readers are not inadvertently misled - someone who puts out good money for an undersized Lithium bank (relative to his average loads) may be sorely dissappointed with the real life performance he sees.

earthrealm:


WAAAWU......not this yeye lead acid you would be babying @ c/10....abi na c/20 discharge rates, kaii..
omo i don port, my next bank will be LIPO4, a 200ah lithuim bank is more useful than an 800ah agm bank.
just imagine i cannot load my 2hp ac on my 400ah 48v lead acid bank, while same could be put on a 50ah 48v lipo4 batteries ....with almost zero consequencies

I took a step back and returned to lead acid batteries. I don't recommend it to anyone that has used Lithium Ion batteries. If I were in Nigeria I would have thrown in the towel and returned to my Lithium ion units.
Am I the first to use Forklift batteries for solar power in Nigeria?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4oem4Ly78&t=1s

HeartforGod:
Hi gurus in the house,

Please, someone help do analysis for me on the much talked about lithium phosphate ion battery against lead acid battery (AGM).


I have plans for a 600AH lead acid battery at 24V (cost = 640k).
So, using these factors (especially cost) to get equivalent for lithium phosphate battery, analyse to help me make an informed decision.

Thanks in advance

a very nice article to get you started

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lithium-ion-vs-agm/

Victron Make both normal ( GEL.AGM) and Lithium


http://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/BlueNova-Launch-Presentation-V2.pdf

chris81964:
I took a step back and returned to lead acid batteries. I don't recommend it to anyone that has used Lithium Ion batteries. If I were in Nigeria I would have thrown in the towel and returned to my Lithium ion units.
Am I the first to use Forklift batteries for solar power in Nigeria?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4oem4Ly78&t=1s

Free forklift batteries? Where do you get such deals pls?.. I won't mind a connect too.

So about this post, are you suggesting that these cells weren't worth the trouble eventually?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
My Oga.

I am struggling with the bolded comparison a bit - 48v 50Ah is about 2.4kwh of energy stored - a standard 2hp AC could easily draw up to 2kw instantaneous or 2kwh in 1 hour - would you be planning to run your 2hp AC for just a little over an hour in a real life application?

All things being equal, a 48v 400Ah lead acid bank should outperform a 48v 50Ah Lithium bank on nearly all metrics.

We need to be careful with these comparisons so that lay readers are not inadvertently misled - someone who puts out good money for an undersized Lithium bank (relative to his average loads) may be sorely dissappointed with the real life performance he sees.

yeah, exaggerated a bit, though am really impressed with the lithuim batts, not being bothered about c/10, its painful hving a 200ah lead acid battery...and the max current you can draw from it is 20amps, while you can draw over 100amps and above from an equivalent lithium battery

Chai !!!

Harvest in Abuja is bad today ooooo.

Rain Rain go away....

I can feel you Babaegun; I am in the same shoes like you.

If not for my large battery bank, I would have ran out of juice today

babaegun:
Chai !!!

Harvest in Abuja is bad today ooooo.

Rain Rain go away....

Trippledots:


Free forklift batteries? Where do you get such deals pls?.. I won't mind a connect too.

So about this post, are you suggesting that these cells weren't worth the trouble eventually?

They require a lot of energy to get capacity from them. I have 3200 watts in PV and I am 100% of the grid. It has not be consistently sunny. Each cell needs to see 2.7 V. That is not happening until I rent a generator. To properly charge them I will need more than double my PV or rent a gen.

chris81964:


They require a lot of energy to get capacity from them. I have 3200 watts in PV and I am 100% of the grid. It has not be consistently sunny. Each cell need see 2.7 V. That is not happening until I rent a generator. To properly charge them I will need more than double my PV or rent a gen.

Interesting... Thank you sir.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
My Oga.

I am struggling with the bolded comparison a bit - 48v 50Ah is about 2.4kwh of energy stored - a standard 2hp AC could easily draw up to 2kw instantaneous or 2kwh in 1 hour - would you be planning to run your 2hp AC for just a little over an hour in a real life application?

All things being equal, a 48v 400Ah lead acid bank should outperform a 48v 50Ah Lithium bank on nearly all metrics.

We need to be careful with these comparisons so that lay readers are not inadvertently misled - someone who puts out good money for an undersized Lithium bank (relative to his average loads) may be sorely dissappointed with the real life performance he sees.

Yes a 48v 400ah lead acid battery should out perform a 48v 50Ah lithium battery, but it's a bit more complicated.

A 48v 400ah battery set up consists of the equivalent of 8 200ah deep cycle lead acid batteries. At the cost of an average of N120,000, that's N960,000.
You know lead acid battery capacity is rated at C/20. Drawing 2kw from lead acid battery is C/4.8, so the capacity of the 48v 400ah battery would reduce to about to about 300ah (maybe less). It even gets worse. It is not recommended to draw above 50% DOD from lead acid batteries, 60% max, so you maximum usable capacity from the battery is 180Ah at the cost of N960,000. Don't forget the average cycle of lead acid is between 300 to 600 cycles when used carefully.

A 48 50Ah lithium phosphate battery system is the equivalent of one 200ah battery, the average cost of which is about N500,000. A lithium phosphate battery can be discharged 90% DOD, without significant loss of battery life. That means a 48v 50ah lithium battery can supply 45ah without any problem. Note that lithium phosphate batteries are rated at an average of 2000 cycles.

The 48v 400ah lead acid battery outperforms the 48v 50ah lithium battery by a factor of 4 to 1 on capacity.

The lithium iron battery outperforms the lead acid on cycles (life time) by a factor of 4:1 also. So when we look at the combination of capacity vs life time, the two battery set ups are the same.

Having said that, the 48v 50a lithium set up is too small to run a 2000w continuous load. So the best set up for this load would be 4 x 48v 50Ah lithium phosphate battery set up. This would give you similar capacity to the 48v 400ah lead battery and last 4 times as long (might last much longer) at the cost of just a little over double the cost.
The main problem with lead acid batteries is having to replace the batteries ever 1 or 2 years.

Please online consultant guru, is this solar charge controller a good brand? Is it effective?

I think the issue may be comparing these batteries based on their burst load handling capabilities.

Let us consider a more typical scenario where the loads are average for typical home use.

48v 400Ah is about 19.2kwh stored - the C20 discharge rate for this is about 960w. Say I run an average 800w load on this battery bank,. I can do so happily for about 12 hours before reaching 50% DoD. In this scenario a good AGM battery will last well over 2 years before it conks. Key to note an AGM will easily handle burst loads up to 25% of capacity for short periods.

Now for a 48v 50Ah Lithium bank, I have 2.4kwh stored - 90% (to use your numbers) is about 2.16kwh - so I can run my 800w load for about 3 hours before exhausting the useable energy in the battery.

12hours backup with AGM looks more like a typical usage scenario vs 3hours with Lithium and to put this on an equivalent footing I would need at least 48v 200Ah to 230Ah of Lithium batteries to give thesame backup time.

Cycle life for a good quality AGM is anywhere from 600 to 1,750 cycles (easily 2 to 5 years) if used within the recommended design range.

If I take Quanta as representative of a good AGM and BYD as representative of a good Lithium based battery, I am looking at a 3:1 cost ratio for Lithium vs AGM.

The average guy on the street would struggle to pay 3 times the regular price to acquire Lithium batteries to secure him thesame capacity but with longer service life. This is the struggle I am in currently trying to upgrade my 48v 800Ah battery bank to Lithium - I am looking at 48v 500Ah of Lithium to give me thesame useable capacity with a slight buffer built in and it is clear to me that I am extremely unwilling to afford that much for a battery or pay that much for Lithium.

wirinet:


Yes a 48v 400ah lead acid battery should out perform a 48v 50Ah lithium battery, but it's a bit more complicated.

A 48v 400ah battery set up consists of the equivalent of 8 200ah deep cycle lead acid batteries. At the cost of an average of N120,000, that's N960,000.
You know lead acid battery capacity is rated at C/20. Drawing 2kw from lead acid battery is C/4.8, so the capacity of the 48v 400ah battery would reduce to about to about 300ah (maybe less). It even gets worse. It is not recommended to draw above 50% DOD from lead acid batteries, 60% max, so you maximum usable capacity from the battery is 180Ah at the cost of N960,000. Don't forget the average cycle of lead acid is between 300 to 600 cycles when used carefully.

A 48 50Ah lithium phosphate battery system is the equivalent of one 200ah battery, the average cost of which is about N500,000. A lithium phosphate battery can be discharged 90% DOD, without significant loss of battery life. That means a 48v 50ah lithium battery can supply 45ah without any problem. Note that lithium phosphate batteries are rated at an average of 2000 cycles.

The 48v 400ah lead acid battery outperforms the 48v 50ah lithium battery by a factor of 4 to 1 on capacity.

The lithium iron battery outperforms the lead acid on cycles (life time) by a factor of 4:1 also. So when we look at the combination of capacity vs life time, the two battery set ups are the same.

Having said that, the 48v 50a lithium set up is too small to run a 2000w continuous load. So the best set up for this load would be 4 x 48v 50Ah lithium phosphate battery set up. This would give you similar capacity to the 48v 400ah lead battery and last 4 times as long (might last much longer) at the cost of just a little over double the cost.
The main problem with lead acid batteries is having to replace the batteries ever 1 or 2 years.

.

wirinet:


Yes a 48v 400ah lead acid battery should out perform a 48v 50Ah lithium battery, but it's a bit more complicated.

A 48v 400ah battery set up consists of the equivalent of 8 200ah deep cycle lead acid batteries. At the cost of an average of N120,000, that's N960,000.
You know lead acid battery capacity is rated at C/20. Drawing 2kw from lead acid battery is C/4.8, so the capacity of the 48v 400ah battery would reduce to about to about 300ah (maybe less). It even gets worse. It is not recommended to draw above 50% DOD from lead acid batteries, 60% max, so you maximum usable capacity from the battery is 180Ah at the cost of N960,000. Don't forget the average cycle of lead acid is between 300 to 600 cycles when used carefully.

A 48 50Ah lithium phosphate battery system is the equivalent of one 200ah battery, the average cost of which is about N500,000. A lithium phosphate battery can be discharged 90% DOD, without significant loss of battery life. That means a 48v 50ah lithium battery can supply 45ah without any problem. Note that lithium phosphate batteries are rated at an average of 2000 cycles.

The 48v 400ah lead acid battery outperforms the 48v 50ah lithium battery by a factor of 4 to 1 on capacity.

The lithium iron battery outperforms the lead acid on cycles (life time) by a factor of 4:1 also. So when we look at the combination of capacity vs life time, the two battery set ups are the same.

Having said that, the 48v 50a lithium set up is too small to run a 2000w continuous load. So the best set up for this load would be 4 x 48v 50Ah lithium phosphate battery set up. This would give you similar capacity to the 48v 400ah lead battery and last 4 times as long (might last much longer) at the cost of just a little over double the cost.
The main problem with lead acid batteries is having to replace the batteries ever 1 or 2 years.

Let us take this off the realm of theory and talk practical. My first solar batteries were 2 Flooded acid non premium tubular batteries with worse rate of discharge and even worse charge rate compared to an AGM. I had 2 for a 2br apartment attached (first to a 480w solar array, and upgraded over the space of 14 months to a 1.84kw array).. Those batteries ran for over 3 years (In fact one got bad due to earlier electrolyte spillage which was the second battery was still waxing strong) Those batteries served me for 3 years (Including 1 year completely offgrid) The powered fridge, freezers, washing machines and the whole shebang of running a house hold of 4, laptop over 4 charging, 2 tvs, 4 fan etc. 3 good years that is about 900 cycles from a 5kwh battery system I goes for 200k today's money.

Lithium is sexy and cool and it seems to be the future, but right now, lithium still has many quirks to address before it becomes mainstream. It is still too delicate, damn expensive and bleeping complicated to use. The biggest concern I have with lithium is the tech is fast evolving, any thing you buy now is bound to be obsolete very soon. Lastly Lithium works best when it is used as a complete turnkey all in one intergrated solution not the Frankenstein mix mash setup common with Lead acid batteries where Battery is different from inverter which is different from controller. A all in one integrated package like the tesla is where Lithium shines the best.. and such solutions are so damn expensive that even in OECD counties like US and Australia such systems are deployed on a pay small small bases with payment scheme sometimes running to over 10 years.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
My Oga.

I am struggling with the bolded comparison a bit - 48v 50Ah is about 2.4kwh of energy stored - a standard 2hp AC could easily draw up to 2kw instantaneous or 2kwh in 1 hour - would you be planning to run your 2hp AC for just a little over an hour in a real life application?

All things being equal, a 48v 400Ah lead acid bank should outperform a 48v 50Ah Lithium bank on nearly all metrics.

We need to be careful with these comparisons so that lay readers are not inadvertently misled - someone who puts out good money for an undersized Lithium bank (relative to his average loads) may be sorely dissappointed with the real life performance he sees.

The question is how may hours will 48V 400 AH last, on this Load?

His argument was valid, as assumed he want to Run 2KW, and not lower capacity.

Even at that the 48V 400AH will out perform the Lifepo4. 48V 50AH

2kwh is 20amp per battery, 2000/12/8
That's approx 8 hours. To be safe 4hours

2kwh will last 1 hour on Lifepo4

I don't know where people got information Lead acid only last 1-2 years

The battery I'm using bought it 2 years used, I have used more than 1 year now, Capacity still @ 80% +

Cos I ran a drain test to 10.8V got 2000wh from 2 100AH batteries. Load average 100w

Someone said here he has been using his for more than 6 years..

Lifepo4 is good, but not worth the Hype considering the cost,

For heavy application 4KWh and above then I will Go Lifepo4

Anything Lower than 1.5kwh, Abeg Lead acid is a go.

dapsyra:
I can feel you Babaegun; I am in the same shoes like you.

If not for my large battery bank, I would have ran out of juice today

My oga, dis ur display be like fighter jet o

Lahotade:
Please online consultant guru, is this solar charge controller a good brand? Is it effective?

I don't knw actually, but u can try it out and give us review sir

Available now
2v 500ah - 54k
2v 600ah - 83k

dapsyra:
I can feel you Babaegun; I am in the same shoes like you.
If not for my large battery bank, I would have ran out of juice today

I need to get the Midnite app working on Android 8.1 (it crashes on opening despite installing Adobe AIR).
How did you get yours running?

Flex max 80a fangpusun 150k
Flex max 60a fangpusun 130k
50a-12/24v 45k. 47k without display
50aD-12/24v 60k with display
60a-12/24v/36v/48v 100k. without display
60aD-12/24v/36v/48v 115k with display
70a-12/24v/36v/48v 110k without display
70a-12/24v/36v/48v 125k with display
45a-12/24v/36v/48v 70k without display
45a-12/24v/36v/48v 85k with display
30a-12/24v 33k
tristar 60a 12/24/36/48v 230k
96v/60a pwm 90k
Emart 3 12/24/36/48v 80k
Battery balancer HAO2 28k 12v/24v/48v
MPPT- CONTROL 15K
BMV 702 FANGPUSUN 42K
Watts meter with clock and 50Hz/60Hz
Monitor Analyser 7k
SPD dc 600v 15k
SPD ac 385v 10k
Voltage protector and load limiter 63a 10k
PROGRAMMABLE Digital timer 15/16a 5k din rail
PROGRAMMABLE Digital timer 25a 7k din rail/wall mount
Ac/dc ceiling fan 56’ inches 5w to 36w

Solar water heater hybrid 200L 230k
Solar water heater 200L 210k

Fangpusun XTM with remote control 3.5kw/48v inverter 450k

080-987-337-09

Pro solar roof mount kits "rails & accessories"!

4 set of solar panels ranging to 390w panel size ... 30,000
3 set of Solar panels.... 26,250
2 set of Solar panels ... 17,500
1 unit of Solar panel..... 8,750

Contact,
Smartcellglobal services
081-350-319-51

The version under reference is running on Windows 10. I also have it running on Android 8 and 9.

I did nothing extra, other than just install it to get it working on Android.

You can try deleting all it's data, uninstall, reboot and reinstall to see if that will straighten it out

Saipro:

I need to get the Midnite app working on Android 8.1 (it crashes on opening despite installing Adobe AIR).
How did you get yours running?

dapsyra:
The version under reference is running on Windows 10. I also have it running on Android 8 and 9.

I did nothing extra, other than just install it to get it working on Android.

You can try deleting all it's data, uninstall, reboot and reinstall to see if that will straighten it out

Noted. Will try shortly.
Could I get a link to your version? Mine is version 1.0.03

Saipro:

Noted. Will try shortly.
Could I get a link to your version? Mine is version 1.0.03

I have same version

Saipro:

I need to get the Midnite app working on Android 8.1 (it crashes on opening despite installing Adobe AIR).
How did you get yours running?

If you are just looking to monitor ur classic on Android, why not get the 'read only' Classic Monitor app?
I find the graphics more appealing and easier to read on a phone than the MC app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.farrelltonsolar.classic&hl=en

MPPT Charge Controller


60A/150V
12/24/48 V (Auto)

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Barezzi:
I have 5.2kw array on a 100A Victron Smartsolar CC. My best harvest is 21Kwh, which translates to an efficiency of 4kwh per kw for that day.

This implies I'd use 3 or 3.5 sun hours for my area in future calculations given the data above.

Do you have any fairly used inverter for sale?

BONA DC/AC solar freezers now available

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Contact,
Smartcellglobal services
081-350-319-51

FrancisAdl:


Do you have any fairly used inverter for sale?

i have some premium magnum, xantrex and the likes for sale.

call/watapp 08117398294.

........

Please, how good is luminous Cruze+ 4kva inverter? Does it have low idle current? How does it compare to TBB Pure Sinewave Inverter Charger 4kW 48VDC? I urgently need a new inverter. Candid advice will be well appreciated.

Victron Multiplus 24V 3KVA Inverter/Charger available for only N425k. Pls call/whatsapp 08118419901.