If according to Christianity, God is all knowing, he knew man even before he was born. He knows where man his headed and his destiny. He knows the choices we will make before we even make them. Most importantly, he knows the number of people who will make heaven. He knows all.

Where then lies our freewill? Where lies our right to make choices if our destinies are already predetermined? Regardless of the choices you make, God already knows where you are heading. Take the story of the repentant thief on the cross for instance. God already knew he was going to seek forgiveness in his final moments and as such regardless of how he lived his life, God already knew he was making heaven.

The concept of freewill is an illusion. As humans, we have no freewill. Whatever action you have taken and are going to take is already predestined. No matter what you do, you will end up in either hell or heaven as has been destined already. You have absolutely no say in the matter.

Ofcourse the above submissions are predicted on the fact that God is all-knowing.

You are free to share your thoughts on the matter.

your thoughts

@OP you have spoken well.
I agree with your submission(s).


Someone once said, "Reasoning kills all Gods."

God knows all
Did he force you to create a new thread?

adahib:
If according to Christianity, God is all knowing, he knew man even before he was born. He knows where man his headed and his destiny. He knows the choices we will make before we even make them. Most importantly, he knows the number of people who will make heaven. He knows all.

Where then lies our freewill? Where lies our right to make choices if our destinies are already predetermined? Regardless of the choices you make, God already knows where you are heading. Take the story of the repentant thief on the cross for instance. God already knew he was going to seek forgiveness in his final moments and as such regardless of how he lived his life, God already knew he was making heaven.

The concept of freewill is an illusion. As humans, we have no freewill. Whatever action you have taken and are going to take is already predestined. No matter what you do, you will end up in either hell or heaven as has been destined already. You have absolutely no say in the matter.

Ofcourse the above submissions are predicted on the fact that God is all-knowing.

You are free to share your thoughts on the matter.

foreknowledge doesn't mean foredetermined.

I know for a fact that my mom will always scold a child who steals.... A know this but it doesn't mean I am the person making her scold children. I am not influencing her freewill because I have foreknowledge of her actions.


God knows the end of a matter from the beginning but that doesn't mean he is influencing you or predetermining your choices.

Whatever decision you make His knew from the beginning that you will make them.

All knowing doesn't affect freewill

Ubenedictus:
foreknowledge doesn't mean foredetermined.

I know for a fact that my mom will always scold a child who steals.... A know this but it doesn't mean I am the person making her scold children. I am not influencing her freewill because I have foreknowledge of her actions.


God knows the end of a matter from the beginning but that doesn't mean he is influencing you or predetermining your choices.

Whatever decision you make His knew from the beginning that you will make them.

All knowing doesn't affect freewill

I appreciate your argument but look at it again. Foreknowledge is to some extent "foredetermined". If Your destination is known already, regardless of your the length of time you spend on the journey, regardless of the number of detours you take, regardless of the choices you make along the way, you will still get to the exact destination. I mean all the choices you made along the way didn't change your destination in the least.

Ubenedictus:
foreknowledge doesn't mean foredetermined.

I know for a fact that my mom will always scold a child who steals.... A know this but it doesn't mean I am the person making her scold children. I am not influencing her freewill because I have foreknowledge of her actions.


God knows the end of a matter from the beginning but that doesn't mean he is influencing you or predetermining your choices.

Whatever decision you make His knew from the beginning that you will make them.

All knowing doesn't affect freewill

So he knew Hawkins wouldn't believe in him (HELL), yet he didn't do anything about it. But he's all loving..

Horiolah:


So he knew Hawkins wouldn't believe in him (HELL), yet he didn't do anything about it. But he's all loving..

that is the beauty of free will, God presents him the choices and furnishes good reasons for faith. But it is your choice, he won't force you.

He is so loving that he forces no one.

adahib:


I appreciate your argument but look at it again. Foreknowledge is to some extent "foredetermined". If Your destination is known already, regardless of your the length of time you spend on the journey, regardless of the number of detours you take, regardless of the choices you make along the way, you will still get to the exact destination. I mean all the choices you made along the way didn't change your destination in the least.

no sir, the fact that he knows what will happen doesnt remove the fact that all the choices you made along the way were all yours.

God knows all the detours you will take and the whole journey, he sees how it will end after it all, how your own choices will bring either honor or dishonor

Ubenedictus:
that is the beauty of free will, God presents him the choices and furnishes good reasons for faith. But it is your choice, he won't force you.

He is so loving that he forces no one.

You still don't get it, do you??. Didn't he (God) knew beforehand, no matter the reasons, I wouldn't believe or their might be some things that would make him (Hawkins) have faith. A being thats all loving and powerful would change the course of things, don't you think?.

Ubenedictus:
no sir, the fact that he knows what will happen doesnt remove the fact that all the choices you made along the way were all yours.

God knows all the detours you will take and the whole journey, he sees how it will end after it all, how your own choices will bring either honor or dishonor

What are the final destinations of man according to the bible? Heaven or hell, right? Does God know who will make heaven or hell even before we were born? If yes, why then did he bother to create a long route (earth) leading to the destinations he already knew beforehand? Why not just create those he is certain will make heaven directly into heaven and those bound for hell, directly into hell. After all, their choices on earth won't change their destinations anyway.

Freewill? That's a mirage.

Ubenedictus:
foreknowledge doesn't mean foredetermined.

I know for a fact that my mom will always scold a child who steals.... A know this but it doesn't mean I am the person making her scold children. I am not influencing her freewill because I have foreknowledge of her actions.


God knows the end of a matter from the beginning but that doesn't mean he is influencing you or predetermining your choices.

Whatever decision you make His knew from the beginning that you will make them.

All knowing doesn't affect freewill

I like your thoughts. But I have some questions.

If God has foreknowledge, why do we need to pray? He already knows the outcome of all things, so prayer would be useless in such case since you can't change the outcome, either good or bad.

Why do God command Christians to preach to all nations? God already knows the people going to heaven and hell, so why preach to people that are "hell-bent " since God knows that they'll eventually go to hell.

If God knows the end of all things, then this world is just like a movie to him, he knows every of our actions before we take them. Why does he get angry at our misdeeds since he already knows what we're going to do? Example is the case of Noah. God was said to be unhappy with the people he created during the time of Noah, he regretted creating them. How can you be shocked by a scene in a movie that you've watched multiple times?

Funaki:


I like your thoughts. But I have some questions.

If God has foreknowledge, why do we need to pray? He already knows the outcome of all things, so prayer would be useless in such case since you can't change the outcome, either good or bad.

Why do God command Christians to preach to all nations? God already knows the people going to heaven and hell, so why preach to people that are "hell-bent " since God knows that they'll eventually go to hell.

If God knows the end of all things, then this world is just like a movie to him, he knows every of our actions before we take them. Why does he get angry at our misdeeds since he already knows what we're going to do? Example is the case of Noah. God was said to be unhappy with the people he created during the time of Noah, hetc regretted creating them. How can you be shocked by a scene in a movie that you've watched multiple times?

These are pertinent questions deserving immediate answers. I join you in waiting for the reply.

Horiolah:


You still don't get it, do you??. Didn't he (God) knew beforehand, no matter the reasons, I wouldn't believe or their might be some things that would make him (Hawkins) have faith. A being thats all loving and powerful would change the course of things, don't you think?.

not really.
He doesn't work according to your thoughts.

He gives sufficient proof and allows you decide... If not it won't be faith, it will be knowledge

Funaki:


I like your thoughts. But I have some questions.

If God has foreknowledge, why do we need to pray? He already knows the outcome of all things, so prayer would be useless in such case since you can't change the outcome, either good or bad.

Why do God command Christians to preach to all nations? God already knows the people going to heaven and hell, so why preach to people that are "hell-bent " since God knows that they'll eventually go to hell.

If God knows the end of all things, then this world is just like a movie to him, he knows every of our actions before we take them. Why does he get angry at our misdeeds since he already knows what we're going to do? Example is the case of Noah. God was said to be unhappy with the people he created during the time of Noah, hetc regretted creating them. How can you be shocked by a scene in a movie that you've watched multiple times?

probably because he already factored in our prayers and preaching and it is in obedience to his word

adahib:
If according to Christianity, God is all knowing, he knew man even before he was born. He knows where man his headed and his destiny. He knows the choices we will make before we even make them. Most importantly, he knows the number of people who will make heaven. He knows all.

Where then lies our freewill? Where lies our right to make choices if our destinies are already predetermined? Regardless of the choices you make, God already knows where you are heading. Take the story of the repentant thief on the cross for instance. God already knew he was going to seek forgiveness in his final moments and as such regardless of how he lived his life, God already knew he was making heaven.

The concept of freewill is an illusion. As humans, we have no freewill. Whatever action you have taken and are going to take is already predestined. No matter what you do, you will end up in either hell or heaven as has been destined already. You have absolutely no say in the matter.

Ofcourse the above submissions are predicted on the fact that God is all-knowing.

You are free to share your thoughts on the matter.

You joined Nairaland: was it by freewill or Predestination?
You authored this thread: was it by freewill or Predestination?
You replied comments on this thread: was it by freewill or Predestination?

etc

You see TIME as LINEAR: but is it really true?
If time is a CIRCLE LOOP, and you traveled in the opposite direction, would you not see events before they happened?

Suppose time doesn't really even exist in creation! But only finds application between Physical events.

shadeyinka:

You joined Nairaland: was it by freewill or Predestination?
You authored this thread: was it by freewill or Predestination?
You replied comments on this thread: was it by freewill or Predestination?

etc

You see TIME as LINEAR: but is it really true?
If time is a CIRCLE LOOP, and you traveled in the opposite direction, would you not see events before they happened?

Suppose time doesn't really even exist in creation! But only finds application between Physical events.

Perhaps I thought I did it of my own freewill but thinking about it again, was it really a choice I had? I mean if a being knew beforehand that I was going to join nairaland at a certain date and at a particular time, what choice then was I left with?

On your other point of time as loop, you are broaching the time-space concept which isn't what we are discussing here and now. Be that as it may, if time was/is a loop, then we as creatures existing within the loop should be able to glean more than a single point of our existence at any particular point in time. I don't think you know what will happen tomorrow, let alone next week. The concept of space time continuum is a favourite of mine but let's push that aside before we give each other needless headaches.

adahib:


Perhaps I thought I did it of my own freewill but thinking about it again, was it really a choice I had? I mean if a being knew beforehand that I was going to join nairaland at a certain date and at a particular time, what choice then was I left with?

On your other point of time as loop, you are broaching the time-space concept which isn't what we are discussing here and now. Be that as it may, if time was/is a loop, then we as creatures existing within the loop should be able to glean more than a single point of our existence at any particular point in time. I don't think you know what will happen tomorrow, let alone next week. The concept of space time continuum is a favourite of mine but let's push that aside before we give each other needless headaches.

Let's start from the beginning:

1. In the beginning, TIME didn't exist for there was no need for it
2. Time is a by-product of the physical world because time is a measure of interval between physical events.
3. God Himself lives in a realm where time DOESN'T exist: the implication is that God can traverse "TIME" forward and backwards at any instance
5. When God traverse into the future and sees the end from the beginning, He simply has FOREKNOWN the future.
6. When God fixes a future for a person, He has PREDESTINATED such a person.
7. When a man says the future because he has been shown by God, such a man is PROPHESYING.

If God Predestined everything about a man, then SIN cannot EXIST and JUDGMENT of Sin is illogical!


Do you think the creator of TIME should be subject to Time?

I have been pondering on this too. But I couldn't get answer to it.

Ubenedictus:
foreknowledge doesn't mean foredetermined.

I know for a fact that my mom will always scold a child who steals.... A know this but it doesn't mean I am the person making her scold children. I am not influencing her freewill because I have foreknowledge of her actions.


God knows the end of a matter from the beginning but that doesn't mean he is influencing you or predetermining your choices.

Whatever decision you make His knew from the beginning that you will make them.

All knowing doesn't affect freewill

You are wrong.

You are oblivious of the fact that the foreknowledge of a human being is different from that of an omniscient being.

In fact, no human being has foreknowledge. We can only estimate and predict. All our predictions are estimates. A human being can never be 100% certain.

A giant meteor could blow our whole planet in the next hour and all meaning would have been lost.


An omniscient being sees a future that has already happened because it cannot happen another way. A normal human being sees a future that could happen

In fact, many scientists have theorized that a powerful being might not see time in a linear manner like we humans do. In the eyes of an omniscient being, it has already happened.


If our future has already happened, then we are already predestined to move our certain paths. There is no freewill.

MyVILLAGEpeople:
I have been pondering on this too. But I couldn't get answer to it.

The above comment to ubenedictus covers the answer.

If there is no freewill then you are implicitly implying that God made you attack him on this thread and he will punish you unless he makes you repent.
Funny enough when you guys ( fake intellectual athiests ) want to start you fake arguments, you start by assuming freewill is real but when you hit a brickwall, freewill becomes an illusion and invalid concept.

CodeTemplar:
If there is no freewill then you are implicitly implying that God made you attack him on this thread and he will punish you unless he makes you repent.
Funny enough when you guys ( fake intellectual athiests ) want to start you fake arguments, you start by assuming freewill is real but when you hit a brickwall, freewill becomes an illusion and invalid concept.

Yes and no.

What the atheists are saying is if there is an omniscient being (which they don't believe in) then there is no freewill.

This is because omniscience implies that everything is known, including the future. If the future is know by God, then te future is written in stone. Our fates have already been decided since creation by God.