JeromeBlack:


Keep quiet.

1966. Muslims like you always dragging us to the past

Even if it year 2050 what was wrong in 1966 is wrong now. The only thing that changed was the law. The law persecuted them bcuz it recognized danger this practice poised to the community. It protects them in 21st century but it is still the same act. And now, see what it is doing to people

JeromeBlack:



Sex education actually plays a part in reducing teen pregnancy.

But you wouldn't know that because your madrasa taught you to hate western concepts.

Fake news. I guess you need to look around you or better still, travel around the world to see how "sex education reduces teen pregnancy". Nonsense. What kinda white lie is this?

Empiree:
Even if it year 2050 what was wrong in 1966 is wrong now. The only thing that changed was the law. The law persecuted them bcuz it recognized danger this practice poised to the community. It protects them in 21st century but it is still the same act. And now, see what it is doing to people

Morality is subjective. Morality changes

In the 70s, people thought that smoking cigarettes was okay.

I'm sure it was halal until the late 80s when they found out it was cancerous.

JeromeBlack:


Morality is subjective. Morality changes

In the 70s, people thought that smoking cigarettes was okay.

I'm sure it was halal until the late 80s when they found out it was cancerous.

What kind of jagbajagba is this in the name of defending vices smh

Empiree:
Fake news. I guess you need to look around you or better still, travel around the world to see how "sex education reduces teen pregnancy". Nonsense. What kinda white lie is this?

Comprehensive sex education reduces teen pregnancy

https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproductive-freedom/study-finds-comprehensive-sex-education-reduces-teen-pregnancy


You will always be ignorant as long as you refuse to learn concepts outside Islamic jurisprudence

Empiree:
What kind of jagbajagba is this in the name of defending vices smh

It is of recent that there are fatwas declaring cigarettes to be haram.

A lot of Muslims used to smoke before. Go and read about tobacco fatwas

Empiree:
No, i can read btw the line. If you understand and declare something is haram, you have no more business advocating for it or indireclty defending homosexual as you rightly put up defence against sino's. This means that you consider it haram is a lip service. I am not a fool. And at no point i have ever supported the so called sex education. You can quote me if i did. If you cant it means you lied. Sex education in itself exposes kids to sexual immorality. It improves nothing in the community. If something is haram it must be hated. What we dont do it attack the one who engages in it. That's a crime. Only the State has the right to persecute. You can hate a gay man but don't attack him. Attacking him is tantamount to hate crime. Just like atheists openly say in secular world "fuvk the modafuvking G-d". No one arrest them for it bcus it is not a crime. But attacking believers in God is.

So the so called "gay lesson" being taught in the UK is introduction and exposition of children to this debauchery.

Lol. Yeah because I'm unable to freely speak and Express my opinion. . Are you okay ? Like I actually think you have an issue with comprehension. I never said you advocated for sex education I said I didnt see you protesting against it like you are now. Please READ. READ. Didnt you have to do some sort of english comprehension exam before they granted your Visa ?

Lol sex education does no such thing. If you were to look at countries without sex education vs countries that do have sex education youd see a correlation between sexual maturity and the practice of safe sex and sex education.

Oh God. Criminal lesson 101. Free speech is not a crime but it does carry some implications. If not. I DARE you, go to your employer and tell them you hate gays. Tell your employer that gays have a mental disorder and should hide their sexuality. Harvard recently rescinded an offer letter to a school for hate speech. You're free to do the same.

Since we've established you've an issue with comprehension. I am absolutely an advocate of gay rights. I dont agree with homosexuality. I am well aware that it is haram. But I do not think gay people should be discriminated against. It is absolutely paramount that students learn how to be tolerant to anyone that may face persecution for the way they are.

No its not. Lol. You're on some other planet.

Empiree:
Even if it year 2050 what was wrong in 1966 is wrong now. The only thing that changed was the law. The law persecuted them bcuz it recognized danger this practice poised to the community. It protects them in 21st century but it is still the same act. And now, see what it is doing to people

You sound more and more uneducated. If you had been as ungrateful as you are now back in 1966, where black people had JUST GOT CIVIL RIGHTS THAT ABOLISHED SEGREGATION. You wouldn't be spewing this rubbish. It was wrong for black people to use the same books as white people. Does the foolish logic you just used here apply still ?

Empiree:
Even if it year 2050 what was wrong in 1966 is wrong now. The only thing that changed was the law. The law persecuted them bcuz it recognized danger this practice poised to the community. It protects them in 21st century but it is still the same act. And now, see what it is doing to people

Nope, morality and laws changes.

Who sees slavery as wrong and illegal in the past?

sino:
First of all, as Muslms, the facts remain that homosexuality is haram! There is no amount of civilization that can change this! That the world is so messed up, and we have societies that promote this behavior is not a yardstick for Islam!

Prior to all the UN, civil rights activism, amnesty international etc., Islam had stated clearly:

"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do." (Sahih International Qur'an 5:

Of course, Islam frowns at homosexuality and homosexuals, but wouldn't deny the fact that they are humans and have the right to life, but based on principles of what is acceptable in an Islamic society. Islam frowns at overt expression of sexuality and sexual relations, even amongst lawful couples. So normally, your sexual adventures are to remain private, the problem is when you start making what ought to be private to the public and then forcing others to accept it as normal.

I stand to be corrected, but I haven't read any empirical evidence that suggests that homosexuality is normal, up till the 20th century, it was regarded as a mental disorder! Regardless of what science might uncover, it is pure common sense to know that the anus isn't a sex organ, a man and man or woman and woman is odd and doesn't make sense...The most awkward part is to now see these gays acting the opposite sexes in a relationship! Like it is obvious what is normal is a man and woman!

The below excerpt captures why I believe there is indeed a surreptitious plot to force the narrative that homosexuality is normal...

"The American Psychiatric Association and the APA provide the aforementioned studies as the scientific evidence that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexual orientation. The APA noted that homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social and vocational capabilities. Further, the APA urges all mental health professionals to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations (Glassgold et al. 2009, 23–24). The Amici Curiae Brief reiterates the same claim, and it supports the claim by citing the aforementioned literature which looked at “adjustment” and social functioning (Brief of Amici Curiae 2003, 11). As has been shown, though, adjustment and social functioning are irrelevant to determining whether the sexual deviations are mental disorders. As a result, the scientific studies that only looked at measures of adjustment and social functioning draw erroneous conclusions and result in “false negatives” as Spitzer, Wakefield, Bieber, and others have noted. Unfortunately, fatally flawed reasoning has served as the basis for “rigorous” and “scientific evidence” supporting the claim that homosexuality is not a mental disorder but is rather a normal variant of human sexual orientation. One cannot conclude (with Alfred Kinsey) that a human behavior is normal simply because it is more common than previously assumed—otherwise all human behaviors, including serial killing, would have to be considered normal. One cannot conclude (with C.S. Ford and Frank A. Beach) that there is “nothing unnatural” about a behavior simply because it is observed in both humans and animals— otherwise cannibalism would have to be considered to be natural. Most importantly, One cannot conclude (with Evelyn Hooker, John C. Gonsiorek, the APA, the American Psychiatric Association, and others) that a mental condition is not disordered because it does not result in “maladjustment,” distress, or impairment in social functioning—otherwise, many mental disorders would have to be labeled erroneously as normal. The conclusions arrived at in the cited literature are not supported by the premises proposed to be scientific fact; the faulty works cannot be considered credible sources.It is always best to give others “the benefit of the doubt.” Maybe the APA and the American Psychiatric Association accidentally made catastrophic logical mistakes in the literature they cite as evidence supporting the claim that homosexuality (and other sexual deviances) is not a mental disorder; that scenario is quite possible. Still, one should not be naïve and ignore the potential for powerful organizations to perform advocacy science. There are major inconsistencies in logic as well as arbitrary applications of certain principles by those upheld as “authoritative” in identifying and diagnosing mental disorders. The present summary and analysis in this paper of the literature put forth as “rigorous” and “significant” empirical evidence uncovers major deficiencies—irrelevant, outdated, and absurd literature—and calls into question the credibility of the APA and the American Psychiatric Association’s discussion and identification of sexual disorders. Indeed, suspect anecdotes and antiquated data have been used in the debates surrounding homosexuality, but the evidence shows that even the authoritative sources on mental disorders are guilty of those charges."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771012/

Things changes, research evolves so what's your point?

I will keep arguing this, there's no phenomena that's unnatural in a natural world, every phenomena are natural whether positive, negative, explained, un-explained, known and unknown.

There's no absolute normality, it's intersubjective.

tintingz:


Lol, if there are cure for Homosexuality, then there should be cure for heterosexuality? Sexual orientation can be changed, yes?

Mention the Raaqi and psychologist that cure homos.

....argument ad infintum....

JeromeBlack:


Oga, I actually have read the Quran. I started reading the hadith but I stopped when many muslims were being dishonest- claiming that some hadiths are weak when it suits them. I am well versed in fiqh.

No one is forcing you to be gay. You are just intolerant

I can only laugh in Nigeria at the bolded. Ustadh Faqeeh!

Call it intolerance. Islamic law is intolerant to homosexuals. Nigerian law too is intolerant to it too. Don't infect us with gayism.

Rashduct4luv:


I can only laugh in Nigeria at the bolded. Ustadh Faqeeh!

Call it intolerance. Islamic law is intolerant to homosexuals. Nigerian law too is intolerant to it too. Don't infect us with gayism.

No one is saying that you must bring gays to your house or teach your children to be gay.

What the secular society is saying is that you should mind your business. You don't have to support gays but you must not antagonize them for their way of life.

Live and let live. If Islam is against gay rights, so be it. But you cannot use Islam to discriminate against gays. Keep your religion to yourself, your family and the Ummah. You have no right to force your beliefs on gays and non muslims. Just as gays an non muslims cannot force things on you

Rashduct4luv:



....argument ad infintum....

We have not even started any argument.

I see this as an escape route.

JeromeBlack:


No one is saying that you must bring gays to your house or teach your children to be gay.

What the secular society is saying is that you should mind your business. You don't have to support gays but you must not antagonize them for their way of life.

Homosexualism is forbidden in Nigeria and will remain so forever! Aamin.

Mind you we are secular but not strictly secular in Nigeria. Our cultural traditions too forbid it.

Case closed.

Rashduct4luv:


Homosexualism is forbidden in Nigeria and will remain so forever! Aamin.

Mind you we are secular but not strictly secular in Nigeria. Our cultural traditions too forbid it.

Case closed.

Our traditions support giving a widow to her brother in laws. Traditions change

JeromeBlack:



Our traditions support giving a widow to her brother in laws. Traditions change

Yes, if the lady in question does not object, it is acceptable in Islam. And there is no compulsion in it.

And are you comparing marriage to homosexualism?

What a bizarre comparison!

tintingz:


Things changes, research evolves so what's your point?

I will keep arguing this, there's no phenomena that's unnatural in a natural world, every phenomena are natural whether positive, negative, explained, un-explained, known and unknown.

There's no absolute normality, it's intersubjective.

Yep, those sociopaths and psychopathic serial killers are actually normal, since killing is natural, animals do kill too, and humans have been killing each other since time immemorial, let's just accept them for who they are, they were born like that, we should love them...Oh they cause harm to others?! Isn't that not also natural?! I'm sure you cause harm to animals you eat too, oh sorry, animals don't matter or do they?! But aren't humans animals too?! Yep, what is normal is intersubjective, a whole lot of mad people would agree they are normal isn't it?!

#Jokers!

Rashduct4luv:


I can only laugh in Nigeria at the bolded. Ustadh Faqeeh!

Call it intolerance. Islamic law is intolerant to homosexuals. Nigerian law too is intolerant to it too. Don't infect us with gayism.

Bro, he is a mufti o!

sino:


Yep, those sociopaths and psychopathic serial killers are actually normal, since killing is natural, animals do kill too, and humans have been killing each other since time immemorial, let's just accept them for who they are, they were born like that, we should love them...Oh they cause harm to others?! Isn't that not also natural?! I'm sure you cause harm to animals you eat too, oh sorry, animals don't matter or do they?! But aren't humans animals too?!

It's part of human nature to kill, hunts etc We as intelligent being needs to regulate our behaviors, it doesn't change the nature of things.

Because killing is natural doesn't mean we should accept it, there's difference between nature and moral laws. Nature is nature, moral laws are human construct.

Yep, what is normal is intersubjective, a whole lot of mad people would agree they are normal isn't it?!

#Jokers!

It doesn't matter if there are whole of mad people or not, the point is people come together and establish what's normal in a society, if you come from another society and behave differently, your behavior would be seen as not normal.

So somehow, normal is an illusion.

tintingz:
It's part of human nature to kill, hunts etc We as intelligent being needs to regulate our behaviors, it doesn't change the nature of things.

Because killing is natural doesn't mean we should accept it, there's difference between nature and moral laws. Nature is nature, moral laws are human construct.

Let me help reconstruct the above.

Because homosexuality is natural doesn't mean we should accept it! Moral laws exist because we are intelligent beings and need to regulate our behaviours, we are not animals!

Intelligence would mean that you can make reasonable judgments, so I put it to you, homosexuality, the act, is it normal to you? Are you willing to participate in such act? Kindly share your reasons for your answers.

tintingz:

It doesn't matter if there are whole of mad people or not, the point is people come together and establish what's normal in a society, if you come from another society and behave differently, your behavior would be seen as not normal.

So somehow, normal is an illusion.

Yep, it doesn't matter, so some group of mad people can come together and dictate what is normal to you, you accept what these people have established because you want to be like them or want to be acceptable to them?!

If normal is based on what 'society' has established and societies differ, why then are you having problems with a normal that is different from the one you have come to accept?!

Well, my own normal and that of Muslims isn't an illusion and not dictated by some people, it is divine, thus there is a moral compass that guides, unlike those which are dictated by the whims and desires of themselves and others!

Rashduct4luv:



Yes, if the lady in question does not object, it is acceptable in Islam. And there is no compulsion in it.

And are you comparing marriage to homosexualism?

What a bizarre comparison!

That is incest. You support incest?

JeromeBlack:



That is incest. You support incest?

Define incest? The crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

How is that incest?

tintingz:
So in schools lecturers don't sleep with girls or demand sex in threat of failing them?

Why are you bias? What happen to your reasoning?

The point is not about sexual immorality by the organiser; it is about forcing normal people to indulge in their sexual disorder. If the student had been a gay animal I would not have raised the point, geddit?

Rashduct4luv:



Define incest? The crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

How is that incest?

Having sex with your brother's wife is kind of incestuous.

JeromeBlack:


Having sex with your brother's wife is kind of incestuous.

No. It is incestuous only if the brother is still alive.

Rashduct4luv:


No. It is incestuous only if the brother is still alive.

Still disgusting

JeromeBlack:



Still disgusting

Not disgusting but homosexualism is.

Rashduct4luv:



Not disgusting but homosexualism is.

Poking your brothers wife is incestuous. So your children will also be your nephews and you will be a step father to your original nephews who would have cousins who are also their step brothers.


Islam makes some muslims to ignore common sense

sino:


Let me help reconstruct the above.

Because homosexuality is natural doesn't mean we should accept it! Moral laws exist because we are intelligent beings and need to regulate our behaviours, we are not animals!

Intelligence would mean that you can make reasonable judgments, so I put it to you, homosexuality, the act, is it normal to you? Are you willing to participate in such act? Kindly share your reasons for your answers.



Yep, it doesn't matter, so some group of mad people can come together and dictate what is normal to you, you accept what these people have established because you want to be like them or want to be acceptable to them?!

If normal is based on what 'society' has established and societies differ, why then are you having problems with a normal that is different from the one you have come to accept?!

Well, my own normal and that of Muslims isn't an illusion and not dictated by some people, it is divine, thus there is a moral compass that guides, unlike those which are dictated by the whims and desires of themselves and others!

With this and comment to which it is replied, tintingz should agree that homosexuality should be unacceptable.

JeromeBlack:


Poking your brothers wife is incestuous. So your children will also be your nephews and you will be a step father to your original nephews who would have cousins who are also their step brothers.


Islam makes some muslims to ignore common sense

Yes, it is permissible. Not LGBT+

Rashduct4luv:


Yes, it is permissible. Not LGBT+

And there you have it folks. Islam supports PEDOPHILIA (marriage of under 17 girls). Islam supports incest (marrying cousins and widowed inlaws)

But God forbid if there is gay marriage. Damn!