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Atheism 101 - Please Educate Yourself / 101 Scientific Facts In The Bible With Bible Passages To Back It It Up / Part Of Evolution Theory That Got Me Really Confused....can There Be An Answer? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Evolution 101 by hakeem4(m): 8:24pm On Jun 20, 2019 |
TV01:okay. Keep believing in your myths. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 9:33pm On Jun 20, 2019 |
wirinet:Even the typically employed order-family-genus-species taxonomy is not totally concise. With lots of re-classifications and disputes about what should be placed where. But it's a good point and I'd place it somewhere around or between family and genus. wirinet:This is not a problem that does not arise in the OFGS system. Interbreeding cannot and should not be the only or even the main criteria. But again, point taken. Cheetahs are listed as Felids in this OFGS classification. Some believe they are more like dogs? There will always be anomalies. Tigers, Leopards, Lions and the other big cats can all interbreed, and with some of the smaller cats. Some kinds may have been more genetically rich/diverse or better able to adapt, leading to more types within it. There could be "competition" even within the kinds over time. Lot's of factors could have led to a kind being restricted or expansive in the types within it. There is a lot we can't say for sure and lot's of time has passed. It's possible that the 2 of each kind were not even what today would be called the same species and, there were probably fewer types within each kind but with greater genetic richness/diversity, which diminishes over time. wirinet:Hopefully it's clearer now. hakeem4:And you are free to stick to your fables of evolution. Meanwhile, any takers for the bolded? For one creature, something "less evolved" than an ape say, to "evolve" into apes and humans requires the acquisition of new genetic material. Can the mechanism behind this acquistion of new material be clearly evidenced or demonstrated by experiment? TV |
Re: Evolution 101 by wirinet(m): 3:32am On Jun 21, 2019 |
TV01: You are still talking without saying anything. Even if nothing in concise, give us a classification we can define. Give something that can be taught, disputed upon and discussed. We know what biological family and genus means, explain what in between is and how it's criteria for classification.
Cheetahs are cat family (felidae), no doubt about that. They possess all the features and characteristics of cats. Now if you say that according to your "kind" classification, it is dog, explain why.
Some big cats can interbreed, but the problem is their offsprings are usually sterile. They in turn cannot breed. The very definition of species iincludes the ability breed and create fertile offspring . We really need your definition of what makes a kind.
Clearer ke? Can you make sense of what you wrote up there?
Evolution fables, and creation (or kind-ution) is fact? The only proof being a sentence "the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground, according to its kind" in a religious book? While, evolution fable produces evidence from generics, paleontology, geology and biology, kind-ution fact only evidence is a quote from the bible.
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Re: Evolution 101 by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:50pm On Jun 21, 2019 |
wirinet: When I said 'Kind' I meant created kinds (Baramin). |
Re: Evolution 101 by kkins25(m): 10:49pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU:hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... |
Re: Evolution 101 by kkins25(m): 11:07pm On Jun 22, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU:can you see how ridiculously your so called cword of God fails you. ? the ship can take 125000 thousand pairs of animlals? are you not- even in this digital era that there are millions of species. the moment you christians realise that your bible is the book of men, that day is the day a flame would settle on your forehead and ye shall speak in tongues and prophecy. but ontil then, everyday you continue to crucify the logos whom died for your sins. olaadegbu, you pharisee 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Evolution 101 by wirinet(m): 7:08am On Jun 23, 2019 |
kkins25:Don't mind them, they suspend their senses and sanity in order to believe their imported myths and fables. Even at the ridiculous 125,000 pairs of animal, a single structure cannot contain them. A Zoo of a few hundred animals requires hectares of space. They think you can stack animals in drawers and then just lock them up for a year. They don't reason that feeding and living arrangements of each animal must be provided for daily. It is ridiculous that a so called omnipotent God, that was supposed to have create the whole universe and all creatures in it with just words in 6 days, would have to go through such stupid strategy of destroying the earth with flood, and saving 8 people with 2 of every animal. 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 2:29pm On Jun 23, 2019 |
wirinet:I have provided a brief overview of "kind" as mentioned in the bible. I don't have anything more comprehensive, although I'm sure there's more out there. It's purpose was to dispel the myth of 125'000 different kinds of animals in the ark. wirinet:Does this discussion boil down to how one classifies a cheetah? Perhaps . Again, the point was that no system of classification is perfectly precise or devoid of anomalies. wirinet:Again, somewhat missing the point. Sometimes they are not sterile. It often depends on the pairing. As mentioned, over time some of the richness of the genome at the original creation has been lost. We see this even in humans. wirinet:No branch of science has produced anything that evidences evolution - simply because that is not how we arrived at the richness, complexity and diversity of life today. And it is still stuck on the point of how life actually began (even though "evolutionists" try and hive that off as a separated discussion). What we have is a "science academy" that is has an a priori commitment to seeing and interpreting everything through an "evolutionary" lens. And still no response to my simple question wirinet:How does non-omnipotence grasp or question what omnipotence is or does? TV |
Re: Evolution 101 by budaatum: 3:01pm On Jun 23, 2019 |
TV01:Non-omnipotence grasps what omnipotence is or does by continously questioning omnipotence until one has grasped what omnipotence is or does. Ref 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Evolution 101 by kkins25(m): 10:54am On Jun 26, 2019 |
wirinet:I would be forever marvelled by that silly act of god. He indeed works in mysterious ways - Ways that are going to get every body on a one way ticket to eternal hell. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 12:13pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
TV01: How do we see this lost rich genome in humans? |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 2:25pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
TV01: There is nothing called less or more evolved, evolution is not a hierarchical ladder. As for the acquisition of new genetic material, what do you mean by that? Do you understand what mutation is? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 3:17pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
wirinet: In a boat made of wood that has been exposed to the elements for 120 years. Have they ever seen wood that has been exposed to the elements for 10years? Wood becomes brittle under those conditions, then you build a boat out of it and then load it with thousands of animals? What a farce. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Evolution 101 by Nobody: 8:32pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
LordReed: Actually wood can last for a very long time if well maintained. One of the oldest wooden structure of today is the Pagoda at Horyu-ji, Ikaruga, Japan. It's been around since the 7th century. |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 10:13pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
omokoladejames: "If well maintained", I severely doubt that someone from 4000BCE had the expertise to assemble and treat wood in the quantities that would be required for this project. Plus the wood need to be good enough to survive the 120 year construction period, the weight of thousands of animals, the weight of their food and water and the year long voyage. Even treated wood exposed begins to warp over a long period and you have to treat it again and again to prevent it from decaying. So in addition to building this giant boat, he has to keep the wood in good order, with a staff strength of 8 max and given that women were generally not taught the family business skills, I'd say staff strength of 4. 4 people cutting, hauling, treating, shaping, lifting and assembling the wood. |
Re: Evolution 101 by Nobody: 1:50am On Jun 27, 2019 |
LordReed:Boss, 7th century is over a thousand years ago, that's still a long way from us. The idea that ancient people were unintelligent folks is not historical correct. Recorded history has always shown the mental capacity of man to solve problems, From mathematics developed by the people of mesopotamia (with concepts like Pythagorean triples, geometry and fourier analysis etc that were thought to have been developed millenniums later untill clay tablets from that time period were discovered), to ancient structures like the Stonehenge. Were they ignorant of some things? Sure... Just the same way we would be ignorant of certain things to a generation a thousand years into the future, but that has not stopped us from doing pretty amazing things and solving problems relevant to us. Thats the same way history has shown people who lived thousands of years ago equally doing pretty amazing things. The hardware upstairs is still basically the same for someone who lived 4000 BC and someone living today. Granted, there are alot of hard questions concerning Noah's flood but saying he couldn't have had the expertise to build the ark is not one of them. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 6:19am On Jun 27, 2019 |
omokoladejames: I doubt such a person had the capacity with only 3 other helpers to build such a thing. Even the so called tower of Babel involved all of humanity and yet 4 people supposedly built a boat capable of containing a pair of all the animals in the world? My objection is not his expertise, it is the scale. |
Re: Evolution 101 by Nobody: 10:06am On Jun 27, 2019 |
LordReed:The scale isn't that much of a problem also, given that it took him roughly about a whole century to complete the ark. Boss like I mentioned earlier, there's no doubt the flood story begs some really hard questions, but the actual construction of the ark itself in my opinion doesn't make that list. |
Re: Evolution 101 by wirinet(m): 11:16am On Jun 27, 2019 |
omokoladejames: The expertise is a main problem. There was no way affiliated family of 8 can build such a massive wooden boat in the time they said it took and with the technology of the time. Remember, they had no power tools and cranes to help them but only rudimentary tools. Even today with power tools and cranes, it is still impossible for a family of 4 men and 4 women to build such a structure, from assembling and shipping the materials to site and then actually building the ship. See this YouTube video for the challenges - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVaVbn7eIFs |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 12:25pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
LordReed:From the base pair - Adam & Eve - were expressed all of the ethnic types. And whilst all ethnic types are able to procreate, pairs from any one ethnic type are limited in their expression. Whilst certain traits become more pronounced and others less so, some are lost over time. Gene deletion attests to this in part and, I believe can be extrapolated backwards to about the time of the base pair LordReed:Fine. No semantic quibbles. More, less, at least the evolutionary position is that it is different no? LordReed:Changes in morphology demand a change in the code. By what natural mechanism does this take place? Mutation does not possess the creative force required to write new code. budaatum:This would be more apt - Ref - Non-omnipotence simply does not have the capacity to grasp omnipotence. Cheers TV |
Re: Evolution 101 by budaatum: 12:42pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 2:29pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Re: Evolution 101 by SMBH: 2:53pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Anyone who claims to understand the theory of evolution and still thinks its wrong is not well. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Evolution 101 by budaatum: 3:14pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
TV01:Yes indeed. Seek deep enough and you might find being born again is a form of evolution. You'd definitely see God evolving if you read your Bible from the Beginning to End, but you'd need eyes that see. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 3:17pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
TV01: Where is the scientific study that brought this conclusion?
Yes, different.
DNA is not a code, it is only described as such to simplify the explanation of its operation. DNA is a sequence of proteins which by their nature are capable of being altered in structure and sequence hence leading to new expressions in the organism. Mutation is how we describe the methods by which these alterations take place. There is no need for a "creative force", it is chemical molecules undergoing natural processes. |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 3:42pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
LordReed:Do you know what the climate was at that point in time? Do you know what types of wood existed back then or their quality ? The bible records it was made of gopher wood and covered in pitch. LordReed:Presumably the scale has been "right-sized" somewhat given that it has been explained that it was "kinds" and not necessarily every "species" of creature. Plus it was built over an extensive period. Further, and I stand to be corrected, nowhere does it say that labour was limited to Noah and his family does it? TV |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 3:47pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
LordReed:The NL commissioned longitudinal study of procreation across and between the nations 1960 - 2018 LordReed:The denial is stroooooooong! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxhuxg3WRfg TV ...the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand...repent ye and believe the Gospel |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 4:00pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
TV01: So none, got it.
What denial? Dawkins said it so much like software, does that translate to it being code? Maybe you need a refresher on what it is: Deoxyribonucleic acid (/diˈɒksɪraɪboʊnjuːkliːɪk, -kleɪ-/ (About this soundlisten);[1] DNA) is a molecule composed of two chains that coil around each other to form a double helix carrying genetic instructions for the development, functioning, growth and reproduction of all known organisms and many viruses. DNA and ribonucleic acid (RNA) are nucleic acids; alongside proteins, lipids and complex carbohydrates (polysaccharides), nucleic acids are one of the four major types of macromolecules that are essential for all known forms of life. The two DNA strands are also known as polynucleotides as they are composed of simpler monomeric units called nucleotides.[2][3] Each nucleotide is composed of one of four nitrogen-containing nucleobases (cytosine [C], guanine [G], adenine [A] or thymine [T]), a sugar called deoxyribose, and a phosphate group. The nucleotides are joined to one another in a chain by covalent bonds between the sugar of one nucleotide and the phosphate of the next, resulting in an alternating sugar-phosphate backbone. The nitrogenous bases of the two separate polynucleotide strands are bound together, according to base pairing rules (A with T and C with G), with hydrogen bonds to make double-stranded DNA. The complementary nitrogenous bases are divided into two groups, pyrimidines and purines. In DNA, the pyrimidines are thymine and cytosine; the purines are adenine and guanine. Both strands of double-stranded DNA store the same biological information. This information is replicated as and when the two strands separate. A large part of DNA (more than 98% for humans) is non-coding, meaning that these sections do not serve as patterns for protein sequences. The two strands of DNA run in opposite directions to each other and are thus antiparallel. Attached to each sugar is one of four types of nucleobases (informally, bases). It is the sequence of these four nucleobases along the backbone that encodes genetic information. RNA strands are created using DNA strands as a template in a process called transcription. Under the genetic code, these RNA strands specify the sequence of amino acids within proteins in a process called translation. Within eukaryotic cells, DNA is organized into long structures called chromosomes. Before typical cell division, these chromosomes are duplicated in the process of DNA replication, providing a complete set of chromosomes for each daughter cell. Eukaryotic organisms (animals, plants, fungi and protists) store most of their DNA inside the cell nucleus as nuclear DNA, and some in the mitochondria as mitochondrial DNA or in chloroplasts as chloroplast DNA.[4] In contrast, prokaryotes (bacteria and archaea) store their DNA only in the cytoplasm, in circular chromosomes. Within eukaryotic chromosomes, chromatin proteins, such as histones, compact and organize DNA. These compacting structures guide the interactions between DNA and other proteins, helping control which parts of the DNA are transcribed. |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 4:19pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Please describe or otherwise evidence the natural process whereby organisms acquire "new" genetic information that enables them to become/turn into different life-forms. Not different expressions of pre-existing traits. And please, not mutations which simply do not generate the capacity/information required for such wholesale changes, and has never been shown to do so. And, are if anything deleterious, not additive. New coherent information cannot be acquired in a random and unguided way. If it's not semantics, it's scientese LordReed:Please describe how this natural process works - what is the mechanism whereby it creates new coherent genetic content that leads to totally new morphological expressions LordReed: TV |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 4:23pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
TV01: The gopher wood the bible refers to is unknown so we can't even determine the properties of the wood. As for the climate, the bible claims it had never rained instead mist was how the world got precipitation. That doesn't eliminate the weathering such exposed wood must undergo even in a treated state. If you want wood to last in such exposed conditions you don't treat it once and then it will be fine forever or else the ark would have been found, if indeed it was real. Right sized indeed. How many kinds of animals entered the ark? So Noah had other people help him build the boat but they decided that they didn't want to take a ride in it? Did they think they did a crappy job? LoL. |
Re: Evolution 101 by TV01(m): 5:00pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
LordReed:Exactly, there are number of unknowns, some degree of uncertainty based on our limited grasp of the event and the detail provided. However, you can't simply dismiss the possibility because it doesn't fit into your limited understanding or match your expectations. We know things lived longer, grew bigger and the earth is in fact suffering the effects of corruption. LordReed:2 of every "kind". I am unable to give exact numbers. LordReed:Funny that, it's kind of like now, the ark of our salvation has been prepared in Christ Jesus - many decline to board TV |
Re: Evolution 101 by LordReed(m): 5:02pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
TV01: Is there any further need to engage with you if you are just going to wilfully misrepresent the theory? No where does the theory say organisms turn into different lifeforms. It has been explain over and over again that the cumulative genetic shifts are what produce a new species and over time those become more and more specialised. But you'll just go on to "show me a monkey turning into a human being". Describe to you mutation which you say is not the natural process? No, I am not masochistic. |
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