budaatum:

Asking me to listen to a lesson on the Trinity by Munroe is like asking me to go back to primary school, though, I'm glad it helped you.

There is a reason the Trinity is a mystery, 411, one which goes back way further than it's adoption into Christianity, but those who seek an understanding will surely benefit from their seeking. It's much plentier work than watching Munroe.

What if I had asked you to go back to the first chapter of the first book of the bible, Genesis?
Cos that would seem like nursery but it is one of the best explanations of the Trinity of God.
If you truly seek to understand Christ, you don't decide the curriculum, the Holy Spirit does. And he uses whoever He wills.

Please don't misconstrue that I am condescending for I am simply describing God's Way. He who wants to see the Kingdom of God must come as a babe, who is willing to humbly learn.

But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 19:14.

Please, watch the video.

pressplay411:


What if I had asked you to go back to the first chapter of the first book of the bible, Genesis?
Cos that would seem like nursery but it is one of the best explanations of the Trinity of God.
If you truly seek to understand Christ, you don't decide the curriculum, the Holy Spirit does. And he uses whoever He wills.

Please don't misconstrue that I am condescending for I am simply describing God's Way. He who wants to see the Kingdom of God must come as a babe, who is willing to humbly learn.

But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 19:14.

Please, watch the video.

First, you are describing God's way according to your own understanding just as I am, and I'm absolutely certain the way of God you describe is the one that works for you. Surely I'd not be stupid to describe a way that doesn't work for me, and it would be arrogant for me to assume to be God's mouthpiece, which I am clearly not.

If you asked me to go anywhere looking for a trinity I'd just write you off really, because you'd be completely disregarding wherever I've already been and be assuming to educate me without first finding out what I already know which I'd find patronising and condescending as you rightly suspect. It's a common thing with some who assume their role is to educate or save others without first being asked and is not an attitude I appreciate. If I was walking down the street and a doctor approached me with the cure for an illness I haven't told the doctor that I have I'd hardly listen then neither.

I've explored the idea of the trinity from enough angles to not wish to waste my time on it anymore I'm afraid. And to be honest with you, it matters not to me how others wish to understand the trinity or whether they see Jesus as God or not. I just don't and live with it's implications. Jesus, for instance said we would do even more than he did which would be impossible unless one becomes God - if the assumption is that Jesus did what he did because he is God - which isn't impossible, me being God that is, but which I'm sure you'd not be willing to accept. You've already said I don't decide the curriculum so you'd likely not accept me deifying myself.

Regarding going back to Genesis though, that's a good place to go back to. In the beginning there was a Unity and God was responsible for both the good and the bad. Then a duality appeared, expressed as Adam and Eve, but which goes far deeper than that though mainstream Christianity does not explore this fact. Then arrived the serpent, which many consider to be a physical serpent and not the voice in Adam and Eve's head. Then the Christ arrived, and after he left he sent the holy spirit, but not many see the relationship between the serpent and the holy spirit both which are voices in one's head, holy if directed by God and evil if not directed by God. This is 2000 years later, when we are exploring the Quarternity, but I would suppose one has to step out of the confines of Christianity and the Bible to get to that point, which may be difficult for some Christians despite Christ warning that one must not live by bread alone. Unfortunately, if some don't read it in their Bible it's not from God.

Anyway, back to idols. One might want to apply the holy spirit to what one reads. For me, a jealous God who wishes Jesus to be worshipped would clearly say so, but I can't say I've come across anywhere where God said, "Worship my Son Jesus Christ too", and I have found that worshipping Christ or God even, is a barrier to understanding, which is what I understand by love your God with all your heart and soul and being and love you neighbours too. If I love my neighbours, idols one might say, but at least idols created by God and in his own image, of whom it is said in as much as I do unto, I have done to God in heaven whom I see not. So there. I worship an idol, and it is you 411.

P.s. This is disjointed and I have not bothered to disjoin it because it would just end up being twice as long and make not more sense. I am certain we will discourse further as time goes by and acquire an understanding of each others position.

An odd thing happened 411. Someone liked this post of mine in which the something I once wrote links to my position on the deity of Jesus. I find it mystifying that conversations I've had on a topic are dug up just when I need it. It's like God is reminding me of what I'd previously written by making someone like it when I need it, and it happens very often.

budaatum:

Asking me to listen to a lesson on the Trinity by Munroe is like asking me to go back to primary school, though, I'm glad it helped you.

There is a reason the Trinity is a mystery, 411, one which goes back way further than it's adoption into Christianity, but those who seek an understanding will surely benefit from their seeking. It's much plentier work than watching Munroe.

Yes the trinity is a mystery and i doubt anybody alive can fully understand it as it requires knowing the inner workings of God. Notwithstanding i do believe we can still try and have a better grasp of the concept of the trinity.

First of the link u gave to the triple deity is not the same as the trinity. The triple deity concept is mostly about syncretization of three separate deities into one which is a bit different from what christains and jews believe(i'll get to why i said jews also). We believe there's only one Creator God. Not three gods but one, which is Yahweh and this is reflected in the jewish shema "Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One" - Deuteronomy 6:4.

Before the Lord Jesus steps on the scene, second temple jews had already started tracking some weird stuffs in their bible(old testatment to us). Though this one God was totally "other" and outside reality we can see with our naked eyes, there were characters in their bible that appeared and spoke in the same capacity as this one God but somehow was distinct in their own right as well.

a)The Angel of the Lord: This particular title was used for a specific being that somehow spoke as God..
Genesis 31:11-13(verse 11 says the Angel of God but by verse 13 says I am the God of Bethel) ,
judges 2:1-4( Who brought them out of egypt, was it the Lord or the Angel) ,
Genesis 22:11-18(This same being spoke in the capacity of God) ...And a couple of other passages exist to buttress the point .

You also had instances where both Yahweh was there and the Angel was there... Exodus 3:2-4(The Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in the burning bush but by verse 4, it was the Lord who spoke to him "When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called out to him from within the bush, “Moses, Moses!",
Judges 6:11-24(If you read closely, you would see the switching in language between the Angel of the Lord and Yahweh),
Genesis16:7-15(Same deal here also) ....And a couple of other passages exist also

b) The word of the Lord: There were passages that on first glance seemed normal but when closely looked at, they were just odd because of the language "the word of the Lord came in a vision". We don't hear visions, we see visions. Jews began to parse this language as not just sounds that came to the prophets but an actual physical appearance of Yahweh in some way. Some of this strange passages are Genesis 15:1, 1sam 3:1("And the word of the LORD was rare in those days; there was no frequent vision.",Jeremiah 1 is also one of them but personally i'm not totally sold on it...
By the last centuries of the BC period, Aramaic translation of the Hebrew bible had began to use the Word and Yahweh interchangeably.

There were others also, such as The Name, the Glory, Ezeikels vision of seeing a human like figure in Ezekiel 8:2 etc and Daniels vision in Daniel 7;
Quick Backstory of daniel 7: Isreal was not an isolated nation, and all of the neighbors of isreal were pagans with several idol cults and believe system. Most of these nations(some alot older than isreal) had there own gods for different natural force, their own creation story,flood story, etc and some of the things the biblical writers wrote was usually a direct jab at these nations believes. There was a particular cult that was quite huge in the ancient world and even survived up until the roman era. This was the cult of baal
baal was considered to be one of the most important gods in ancient near east and was the god of fertility. he was also Lord of Rain and Dew, the two forms of moisture that were indispensable for fertile soil in Canaan. Israels prophets constantly had to deal with with the claims of baal as supreme god by showing there was only one God in charge of the entire creation including its elements(remember Elijah's drought of 3yrs, it was a direct assault towards baals pedigree as rainmaker). One important feature of baal was that he rode on the clouds, but Israel's prophets countered that claim with the fact that only Yahweh rode on the clouds and through out the Hebrew bible, only Yahweh was shown to be the cloud rider except once, and that was in Daniels vision of "the son of man" riding on the cloud. This put this son of man in a position only reserved for Yahweh but at the same time this son of man figure is distinct from Yahweh.Checkout Daniel 7 to get the full gist

By the periods preceding the coming of the Saviour Jesus, Jews who have been tracking this clues, came up with a category slot for all these visual representation of Yahweh as both Yahweh but at the same time distinct from Yahweh, basically a two powers in heaven concept(atleast thats how jews at the time viewed it). One God but also complex beyond understanding that there is two but still one. Of course people were throwing out ideas of who this second power was.

By the time Jesus steps on the scene and starts doing things that only Yahweh did, like calming the raging seas, forgiving of sins, speaking with authority(You have heard that it was said.... but i say to you...: basically putting his words side by side with the law given by Yahweh to moses), jews at that era understood the claims he was making(although not immediately). The whole reason he was crucified was because they understood he was equating himself with Yahweh (Matthew 26:64-65) and the issue wasn't that they didn't have a category for this, it was that they couldn't see Jesus filling that role.

By the writing of the new testament, the divinity of Jesus was well solidified with numerous passages to support it, John 1:1 is always a good place to start and the understanding of the third person in the trinity was also well established.I'm sure many others here can give great insight to this from the new testament but i believe starting from the old testament can help shed more light into the culture the gospels began in and how the concept of the trinity was fully revealed. Remember the entire bible is one big hyperlink, alot of things are interconnected. When new testament authors used words like "Christ is the visible image of the invisible God",they were not pulling this concepts out of thin air. Likewise when the Lord Jesus said "Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?", He was feeding of concepts that should have been familiar to his audience. After the resurrection, most of the things the disciples missed began to be clear

SideNote:All the apostles and first Christians were jews and they won't have worshiped Jesus if they didn't believe he was Yahweh the God of Isreal. And if Jesus was a mere man or angel,he won't have accepted worship as peter and the angel in revelations didn't.

This is just a super condensed version of a really complex topic but i Hope this helps

omokoladejames:


And if Jesus was a mere man or angel,he won't have accepted worship as peter and the angel in revelations didn't.

This is just a super condensed version of a really complex topic but i Hope this helps

I could give a whole different version but I'd have to admit it's just another version out of the many out there and I can't claim any is superior to how it motivates the individual, which is why my interest would be the implications of believing in a trinity. What fruit does it produce, so to speak..

God created humans in God's image, is the accepted wisdom in Christianity, would you say humans are a trinity too? If so, how?

I checked the link I gave on trinity by the way, just to be certain I posted the right one. Below is from it.

budaatum:


I wouldn't agree that Jesus Christ were God. God's Son, they say, but not Yahweh himself. I just can't see Yahweh submitting to crucifixion without turning everyone on earth to salt first or wiping it out with a flood or fire or something equally as devastating.

.


Statement with satanic/demonic undertone.

pressplay411:


Lol Isn't Jesus Christ God?

The Scriptures (Bible) could become an idol though as theologians often become puffed up in knowledge as the Pharisees and Scribes who ended up crucifying the Saviour they had been reading and teaching about.

The Scriptures can be idol? Interesting!

Even the deification of 'self' is tantamount to idol worship. When you deify 'the self', you negate God.

budaatum:

I don't bow down and worship Jesus Christ or honour and revere him, whether permitted to or not. I learn from his teaching instead.

If you don't bow down and worship, honour and revere Yahushua the Messiah, why don't you do yourself a favour and leave his teaching alone. His teaching will make no sense to you, whether you like it or not, admit it or not. Like I have started about you, reeling out Scriptures does not deceive the true saints of Yahushua the Messiah. You, budaatum, know zilch about the Word or teaching of Yahushua the Messiah.

Obviously, the latent intention of the likes of you is to reduce the begotten Son of YHVH of Hosts, who himself is the Word of the Father in heaven, to an ordinary mortal like your philosophers, Aristotle, Gustav Jung, etc. How pitiful!

No matter how hard Satan tries, he will never be able to take away the glory and honour YHVH of Hosts has given to his Son, Yahushua the Messiah.

budaatum:
Would you permit me to add the Holy Bible as a common idol of some please? Many do bow down and worship it even though they don't know they do.

I'd like to add Jesus Christ too but don't think that would go down well.

In fact, every true follower of YHVH of Hosts must bow down and worship his Word. The Scriptures of the Creator of heaven and earth can never become an idol.

budaatum:

I'm not the sort to submit to what I do not understand. If I did that, if Jesus did that in fact, he would have succumbed to the temptation on the mountain through a lack of understanding, and if I submit to what I do not understand it would mean that I completely misunderstood Christ's teachings. Christ, after all did not submit to the teachings of his day.

Solomon is my guide in this, for in seeking first the Kingdom of God all other things were added unto him. I'd rather ask God for understanding so that I do not have to submit.

Where will this person get off twisting the Word of YHVH?

MuttleyLaff:
"⁷You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
⁸'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
⁹Their worship of me is pointless, because their teachings are rules made by humans."
- Matthew 15:7-9

"¹Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,
²saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship Him.
¹¹When they entered the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary. So they bowed down and worshiped Him. Then they opened their treasure chests and offered him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh."
- Matthew 2:1-2 & 11

"The Father wants all people to honor the Son as much as they honor Him.
When anyone refuses to honor the Son, this is the same as refusing to honor the Father who sent him."
- John 5:23

As can be seen from the inexhaustible above scripture, in showing honour and reverence, you are permitted to bow down and worship Jesus Christ, and even particularly, also to importantly, learn from His teaching too. The trio, showing honour, reverence and learning, are three Musketeers and chambermates

Different people, from all walks of life, bow and bowed down to Jesus Christ, from the Samaritan who was a leper asking for healing, to the synagogue official asking Him to bring his daughter back to life, to soldiers mocking Him when He was hanging and dying on the cross, to the Canaanite woman asking Him for help etcetera

You are missing a trick budaatum, and you fail to notice and take advantage of a good thing, if you dont bow down and worship Jesus Christ or honour and revere Him

You see, budaatum, even muttleylaff - a chronic, dyed in the wool, unrepentant twister and manipulator of the Scriptures -has shamed his employer and master, Satan, and stated the truth here.

Though, the saints must not be deceived.

budaatum:

No one submits to the Word of God 411. What everyone submits to, if they submit at all, is their own understanding of the Word of God which is usually twisted to justify their own actions. It is as is written, "The Word of God was made for man, not man for the Word of God. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Word of God." ^baav

We twist our own understanding into it and claim God said essentially, just as Christ taught us to but using the key which is [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+13&version=NIV&interface=amp]love[/url].

Twister budaatum, speak for yourself. Some people submit to the Word of YHVH. The Set-apart Spirit of the Father in heaven in his saints gives them understanding of the Word. An understanding you know nothing about.

So the messiah whom you worship taught you to twist the set-apart Word of YHVH of Hosts? No wonder! You worship and speak of a different Messiah.

sonmvayina:
The 1st and 2nd of the 10 commandments God gave to moses says
' i am the lord your god who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the land of bondage, you shall not have any other god before me'...

our creator wants to have a relationship with us, no intermediary or mediator is necessary or permitted..this was the practice of the surrounding cities of israel who usually go through the Baals and the asherah.which essentially is the sons and daughters of Enlil..which where Nergal,Ninazu, Ninurta or molech..inanna...etc. God forbade his chosen people from doing it.

the second says:[b] Do not [/b]make the image or likeness of anything in heaven(like sun, moon, stars,or planets) on earth (trees, river, animals, human being...etc)or under the waters bellow the earth(fish, algaes, bacteria..etc).do not bow down to them or serve them...
this commandment essentially conderms idolatry.
so like a said in an earlier thread..worshipping a god created in the likeness of a man is forbidden like the christian do..it is tantamount to idolatry..christianity is just a roman rebranding of a babyloanian paganism..you have to disobey a lot of the commandment of god for you to accept christianity ...

God is not a man or human being...he has no form..he is the personification of divine conciouseness...

'' PEOPLE ACTUALLY PERISH FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE''

What are you on about? The way to eternal life is actually plain and simple to understand. The only way to the Father in heaven - the Creator of the ends of the earth, YHVH Almighty - is his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah. He is the Word that was made flesh, dwelt among men, walked the surface of the earth and poured out his blood for the redemption for mankind.

Yahushua the Messiah is the only Mediator between man and the Father. He is the Advocate that speaks for the saints.

Satan can even sell himself, if possible, just to take away, if such a feat were possible, the glory and honour YHVH Almighty has placed on his Son, Yahushua the Messiah.

elated177:



Twister budaatum, speak for yourself. Some people submit to the Word of YHVH. The Set-apart Spirit of the Father in heaven in his saints gives them understanding of the Word. An understanding you know nothing about.

The Word of God that you bow to obviously lacks the fruits of the spirit and love your neighbour or you don't understand love those neighbours who don't believe what you believe 177.

elated177:


You see, budaatum, even muttleylaff - a chronic, dyed in the wool, unrepentant twister and manipulator of the Scriptures -has shamed his employer and master, Satan, and stated the truth here.

Though, the saints must not be deceived.

I'd remind you you said so when he tells you Gods word is love same gender sex people.

pressplay411:


You've rightly said.
Remember I distinguished the Bible (Scriptures) from the Word of God.
The Bible is the letter (logos).
While the Word of God is when the Holy Spirit broods on the letter to give us His Understanding. That is when the Word is made flesh and Christ is formed in us.

This is why, The Letter kills but the Spirit gives Life.
It is only the Holy Spirit that gives understanding to Simple (humble) Minds.

Are you saying that the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty are not his words?

Do not for the sake of trying to agree with budaatum, confuse yourself and the readers of your posts. You will most certainly be lost if you toe the line of budaatum.

Having the Letter without obedience is likened to dying. Obedience to the Letter is the Spirit referred to. When a person has the Word and obeys it, such a person is said to have the Word and the Spirit. Of course, it is the Spirit, the Power, of the Father in heaven that can enable the saint obey his Word.

elated177:


In fact, every true follower of YHVH of Hosts must bow down and worship his Word. The Scriptures of the Creator of heaven and earth can never become an idol.

Except some appear to make it an idol and bow down and worship his Word. Are we not told about your sort in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A46-49&version=NIV]Lord Lordism[/url] parable?

Please, go ahead and "worship his Word", but as for me and my own household, we will [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+24%3A15&version=NIV]serve[/url] the Lord" instead.

budaatum:

A trick I'm delighted to miss since it means I'd rather learn and understand Christ than bow down and worship or honour and revere Christ. It's the difference between seeing through dark glass and knowing.

There is a reason why it is written that the Gospel is preached to the poor. As you well know, the Holy Spirit gives each individual the ability to understand as much as they put in the effort to understand. Besides, to the best of my knowledge, Christ never asked anyone to "bow down and worship or honour and revere" Christ.

He did actually.

Unless you, budaatum, bow down and worship or revere and honour the Messiah Yahushua, you have no life in you.

elated177:
You see, budaatum, even muttleylaff - a chronic, dyed in the wool, unrepentant twister and manipulator of the Scriptures -has shamed his employer and master, Satan, and stated the truth here.

Though, the saints must not be deceived.

What we agree on, what unites us elated177, is far more stronger and bigger than what we disagree and differ on

elated177:
He did actually.

Unless you, budaatum, bow down and worship or revere and honour the Messiah Yahushua, you have no life in you.

True to that.

budaatum:
I'd remind you you said so when he tells you Gods word is love same gender sex people.

Gender is out of the equation, as you would know, there is no male or female in Heaven and that's what we'll ultimately become, genderless, just as like with how angels are genderless.

Budaatum wrote:

"This is 2000 years later, when we are exploring the Quarternity, but I would suppose one has to step out of the confines of Christianity and the Bible to get to that point, which may be difficult for some Christians despite Christ warning that one must not live by bread alone. Unfortunately, if some don't read it in their Bible it's not from God."

Elated177's response:

Now this is your whole mission; to lure the saints and the unstable from the foundation of their faith.

This tactics reminds me of a certain Indian movie I watched donkey years ago.


Once a saint of YHVH Almighty steps away from the confines of the Scriptures in search of knowledge or understanding, such one has fallen into the trap of Satan.

You, budaatum, are with all subtlety luring the unstable to occultism and new age ideas. You are not as subtle as you think, though. Any saint of Yahushua the Messiah can see through you. You are just using the knowledge of the Scriptures, albeit just the Letters, to mask your true intentions.

May YHVH Almighty continue to deliver his saints from your kind on this forum and beyond.

budaatum:

Except some appear to make it an idol and bow down and worship his Word. Are we not told about your sort in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A46-49&version=NIV]Lord Lordism[/url] parable?

Please, go ahead and "worship his Word", but as for me and my own household, we will [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+24%3A15&version=NIV]serve[/url] the Lord" instead.

Do you not realize that YHVH of Hosts is one with his Word? The Father and his Word are one. If YHVH honours himself, he is also honouring his Word. If he honours his Word, he is honouring himself. If YHVH glorifies his Word, he is glorifying himself. If YHVH glorifies himself, he is directly glorifying his Word as well. This is why anyone who honours the Word of YHVH of Hosts, honours YHVH himself. Anyone who worships YHVH of Hosts, worships his Word. Anyone who does not obey the Word does not obey the Owner of the Word. The Scriptures have made it abundantly clear that the Word of YHVH of Hosts is his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah. YHVH of Hosts is God, his Word is God. YHVH of Hosts is Law, his Word is Law. YHVH of Hosts is the Master, God, Father of his Word. YHVH El Shaddai is above and greater than his Word.

What is the name if this "the Lord" you and your family worship?
How do you worship him? What does he expect from you. Tell us, budaatum, tell everyone here about this "the Lord".

budaatum:

The Word of God that you bow to obviously lacks the fruits of the spirit and love your neighbour or you don't understand love those neighbours who don't believe what you do 177.

Your understanding of love and my understanding of love may not be the same, since you do not subscribe to the Word that constitutes love.

What does love your neighbor have to do with the issue at hand. How does it factor into what is being discussed here? Or are you trying to accuse me of religious intolerance? Have you ever seen me holding a knife to the throat or a gun to the head of anyone who disagrees with me belief?

elated177:


Are you saying that the Scriptures of YHVH Almighty are not his words?

Do not for the sake of trying to agree with budaatum, confuse yourself and the readers of your posts. You will most certainly be lost if you toe the line of budaatum.

Having the Letter without obedience is likened to dying. Obedience to the Letter is the Spirit referred to. When a person has the Word and obeys it, such a person is said to have the Word and the Spirit. Of course, it is the Spirit, the Power, of the Father in heaven that can enable the saint obey his Word.

Thanks for your observation.
I won't contravene the Word of God just to agree with anyone. @least not to my knowledge.
I can only try to understand the person's perspective.

The scriptural truth remains that the Letter is different from the Word of God. The Letter kills until it becomes revealed by the Holy Spirit, then it gives Life.

Which is why Arise! could simply have no effect while the same Word by the Holy Spirit would produce a Miracle!

This is also analogous to the fact that man born of flesh is different from man born of the Spirit.
The question therefore is, does that stop the Man (whether born of flesh or Spirit) from being a child of God?
If I may paraphrase- Are we all children of God, irregardless of being born of Spirit (born again) or born of flesh?

budaatum:

I'd remind you you said so when he tells you Gods word is love same gender sex people.

I already know muttleylaff as twister and manipulator of the Scriptures.

If he says "YHVH is love"; he at that moment is speaking the truth. And I will agree with him. The Truth is not partial. The Truth is a respecter of no one.

However, if he turns around and says, "YHVH's love includes acceptance of homosexuality and same sex aberration called marriage", I will, with unmitigated passion, disagree with him.

Am I going to deny that Yahushua the Messiah is the Son of YHVH anytime Satan, the father of lies, makes such statement?

Read

budaatum:

I'd remind you you said so when he tells you Gods word is love same gender sex people.

I already know muttleylaff as twister and manipulator of the Scriptures.

If he says "YHVH is love"; he at that moment is speaking the truth. And I will agree with him. The Truth is not partial. The Truth is a respecter of no one.

However, if he turns around and says, "YHVH's love includes acceptance of homosexuality and same sex aberration called marriage", I will, with unmitigated passion, disagree with him.

Am I going to deny that Yahushua the Messiah is the Son of YHVH anytime Satan, the father of lies, makes such statement?

Read:

Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high Elohim, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Yahushua the Messiah to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Did Paul and Silas deny the truth because it came from the mouth of a demon possessed girl?

MuttleyLaff:
What we agree on, what unites us elated177, is far more stronger and bigger than what we disagree and differ on.

Make no mistake, muttleylaff, nothing unites the two of us in this regard.

elated177:
I already know muttleylaff as twister and manipulator of the Scriptures.

If he says "YHVH is love"; he at that moment is speaking the truth. And I will agree with him. The Truth is not partial. The Truth is a respecter of no one.

However, if he turns around and says, "YHVH's love includes acceptance of homosexuality and same sex aberration called marriage", I will, with unmitigated passion, disagree with him.

Am I going to deny that Yahushua the Messiah is the Son of YHVH anytime Satan, the father of lies, makes such statement?

Read:
Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high Elohim, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Yahushua the Messiah to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Did Paul and Silas deny the truth because it came from the mouth of a demon possessed girl?

elated177:
Make no mistake, muttleylaff, nothing unites the two of us in this regard.

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MuttleyLaff:
What we agree on, what unites us elated177, is far more stronger and bigger than what we disagree and differ on

True to that.

Gender is out of the equation, as you would know, there is no male or female in Heaven and that's what we'll ultimately become, genderless, just as like with how angels are genderless.

Why will anyone who names the name of Christ proclaim he endorses homosexualism?
God does love the world (saint and sinners) but he doesn't condone sin, you understand that right?

We are to love them regardless just as we are to love every one else as ourselves. It is that love that will provoke us to pray for them, just as we hate to see what the devil has made out of God's perfection.

I was committing immoralities just as bad as homosexuality. I won't therefore say God loves my immoral ways, even though he still loved me as a sinner. However it grieves Him that I was on the path of destruction and I was corrupting others and spreading immorality.

God is always, a God of righteousness. That is His Nature and He never changes that for anyone. Jesus Christ sat with sinners preaching salvation to them.

pressplay411:
Why will anyone who names the name of Christ proclaim he endorses homosexualism?
God does love the world (saint and sinners) but he doesn't condone sin, you understand that right?

We are to love them regardless just as we are to love every one else as ourselves. It is that love that will provoke us to pray for them, just as we hate to see what the devil has made out of God's perfection.

I was committing immoralities just as bad as homosexuality. I won't therefore say God loves my immoral ways, even though he still loved me as a sinner. However it grieves Him that I was on the path of destruction and I was corrupting others and spreading immorality.

God is always, a God of righteousness. That is His Nature and He never changes that for anyone. Jesus Christ sat with sinners preaching salvation to them

1/ Please articulate to the best of your understanding, what is evil, wrong and bad in two adult having a romantic strictly monogamous same same sex attraction relationship, that is caring, loyal, kind, love until death do apart and is not harmful to anyone or anything, not a person, not a child and not an animal, hmm pressplay411?

2/ What immorality are such two living and enjoying a strictly monogamous same sex attraction relationship lifestyle, no cheating, no sleeping around, no etcetera hmm?

elated177:


Your understanding of love and my understanding of love may not be the same, since you do not subscribe to the Word that constitutes love.

And obviously, not just of love, but of the entire scripture it would seem, and rather than trying to understand what one might mean, you jump in with no understanding whatsoever!

Do tell, a person goes to church on Sunday, sings aleluya Jesus amen, pays full tithes and appears pious, but then lacks love for their neighbours, has that person not been worshipping idols?

A person believes the word of God but does not do God's will, has that person not been worshipping idols?

Is it not true that Scripture is just words in a book to those who breathes not life, love, doing, into those words?