budaatum:

The Bible does not teach! It is written in the Bible that Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit so it's up to me to understand what that means. After all, I went to school and know it takes a man and a woman to produce a child, so what the fuq could possibly be meant, I ask.


So, I'd say "Wisdom", and assume it's not of this world despite it being an earthly word? Do I plan to use that wisdom outside this world?

Wisdom means that which is wise, and if that's not clear enough, I can easily check a dictionary where I'd find it means "the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise". Can I get experience from the Bible? Can all my knowledge only come from Bible?


Here's a quote from Ayn Rand

I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

I look deeper by my own authority, after all, my eyes, my brain, my mind! Or are you assuming I farmed them out or something?

When I read that Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, knowing how babies are born, I could try and find out what might be meant by the Holy Spirit or chuck the whole book in the bin. I choose to do the former, by my own authority.

joseph1013:
DO YOU BELIEVE GOD EXISTS?

There is one piece of logic that I find very few theists understand. It is important logic because it demonstrates that atheism is a logically sound position. Here is a dialogue between a theist and an atheist that explains this logic in the simplest way I have yet discovered.

T: Do you believe God exists?

A: No, I don't.

T: So you believe God does not exist! How could any human make such a claim? Do you know everything? Have you been everywhere in the universe? Can you see spirits? How can you possibly rule out God?

A: I didn't say I believe God does not exist--I said I don't believe he does exist.

T: If you don't believe God exists, you MUST believe he does not exist--it's simple logic!

A: It is simple logic. Unfortunately, you don't understand it. Think about this, God either exists or he does not exist, right? There are only two possibilities.

T: Exactly. So if you don't believe God exists, you MUST believe that he doesn't exist!

A: Wrong. Let's use an analogy. A light switch, like the existence of God, also has two possibilities--it is either on or off. Let's imagine we are at my house and you ask, "Do you believe my kitchen light switch is on?". I have no idea, so I say "No, I don't believe it is on."

T: OK.

A: Does that mean I believe your kitchen light switch is off?

T: I suppose not.

A: Correct. I can't say if that light switch is on or off, so I do not believe it is on AND I do not believe it is off. I have no belief about the state of that light switch. Do you see that?

T: OK

A: The same is true for the God exists question. I have no evidence that God exists, so I don't believe it. Nor do I have sufficient evidence to be sure that God does not exist, so I don't believe God does not exist either.

[s]T: But that just makes you an agnostic!

A: True, you could call me an agnostic but I do not believe God exists so, by definition, I am also an atheist.

T: I'll have to think about that.[/s]

frank317:


Kindly tell me what u understand be Jesus being born by the holy spirit...

joseph1013:
DO YOU BELIEVE GOD EXISTS?

joseph1013:
WHY CREATIONISTS TELL LIES

When you believe lies, you may have to use lies to defend your beliefs. But you know you are doing this, right?

budaatum:

Instead of calling creationists ignorant, you wrongly misrepresent them as liars. How can I be lying by believing only what I know? Creationists are not liars, they are just created in the image of their creators and are one stage in the long process of evolution. And unless they be born again, they shall not see the Kingdom of God.

If you yourself are honest, you would have mercy upon my mind. If you yourself are honest, you could even make me evolve from the believing liar you perceive me as though ignorant I am, to a knowledgeable individual who believes not but knows.

So, thank the Lord that the Evolutioner was sent, or humans would have remained in primate stage.

LordReed:


What do you call someone who knows the truth but actively avoids telling it?

budaatum:

A liar.

Why do you assume someone who tells a lie knows the truth and is actively avoiding telling it?

LordReed:


Because they have the evidence but just refuse it?

budaatum:

What is it that you see my Lord that makes you say (ask) "they have the evidence", and that they "just refuse it"?

How do they refuse what they have?

LordReed:


The same way you and I acquire it. They on acquiring it say to themselves this contradicts my holy book therefore it is wrong.

budaatum:

Something does not add up here my Lord. They can not have acquired it the "same way" and then "say to themselves this contradicts my holy book therefore it is wrong". That's like claiming a thousand naira note in one's pocket is not there. Even if I were lying, one would have to reason why! So lets, without laziness, or in Christainese, to God's Glory, as in, for the ultimate good, consider the following.

What is 'it' that you and I acquire?

How do "you and I" acquire it?

Why do we, unlike them, not say "it is wrong"?

LordReed:


I can show you a conversation with a Christian who said she ignores anything that does not confirm what the Bible says.

LordReed:


I can show you a conversation with a Christian who said she ignores anything that does not confirm what the Bible says.

budaatum:

How did you work out she's a Christian? By her "lord lord" perhaps, or by her religious attendance at church?

She can't possibly ignore "anything that does not confirm what the Bible says." There's far too much in this 20th century that the Bible writers had no clue about for starts, but more importantly, she could not possibly have acquired 'it', in the same way that you said "you and I acquire it", or we too would be talking her crap!

LordReed:


I won't take your rationalizing over hers. She stated her position quite clearly.

budaatum:

You don't need to take my rationalizing my Lord. I do however insist that the person you describe did not acquire whatever the "it" is that you and I acquired the same way we acquired it, or we too would be living by one book alone, which I would say she even hardly comprehends.

Something, surely, must make you not be like her.

LordReed:


Did you read what she wrote?

budaatum:

Did you read what I wrote?

What is it that makes you not reason like she does?

LordReed:


If you read what she wrote you'd not need to ask me this question.

budaatum:

Why not? She claims to be a Christian and you just believe it! Should I, like you, blame the manual for her inability to comprehend it? Or is it that you accept her definition of Christianity without checking the manual yourself? Is she in anyway stating what the Christian manuel states she should do my Lord?

LordReed:


The answer to your questions are in what she wrote, read it.

budaatum:

I wonder why you insist I haven't read it! Is her depiction your own understanding of what Christianity is, my Lord?

LordReed:


Because they have the evidence but just refuse it?

LordReed:


The same way you and I acquire it. They on acquiring it say to themselves this contradicts my holy book therefore it is wrong.

LordReed:


The same way you and I acquire it. They on acquiring it say to themselves this contradicts my holy book therefore it is wrong.

budaatum:

They cannot have acquired it the "same way you and I acquire it" my Lord, or they would not "on acquiring it say to themselves this contradicts my holy book therefore it is wrong". If they had "the evidence" (which includes the data itself, and the ability to comprehend it) that you appear to have, they too would accept it like you do.

Equating yourself as the same as them indicates a lack of awareness of what I wish to refer to as the superiority in your use of your brain.

See my response to her type here.

LordReed:


Where did I equate myself with them?

budaatum:

When you said, "same way you and I acquire it", my Lord. You not only equated yourself with 'them', but equated me with 'them' too, when there is a clear difference. Would you deny evidence, and place the contents of a book over your own understanding, experience and knowledge?

I'm all the same claiming the 'Christian' you mentioned and kept insisting her comments I read has little understanding of the book she claims to live her life by.

LordReed:


It was a reference to our humanity my dear buda they have eyes, ears, hands, a brain and the same access to the generality of information we have.

budaatum:

Some have eyes and see not, some ears but hear not and some just have no brains my Lord, and have sought not so have no access to the "generality of the information". You should have noticed this in Evo 101. If they were like you, they would have considered the given information instead of fearing God would cast them in hell for learning. It is for this reason that we have compassion for them and forgive their tresspassing, for they are ignorant, and not lying as you think.

I, for instance, after years of study, have only just learnt that the Gospels were written after Paul by those who would promote his ideas, and the true teaching of Jesus as handed to his brother, James the Just, has been obscured. It would be remiss of me to assume every human would be aware of this or even understand it's implications.