Ibime:


Nonsense.

Hazard chance be like ball wey he just flash for box after he dribble reach line. Striker go dey tussle with 3 men to take one unbalanced shot.

KDB chance na clear chance, just you and keeper.

That's why una dey shout Hazard chance created, Hazard chance created when he was dropping 5 league assist in 2016/17. Fabregas meanwhile was putting Costa clean through on keeper to be taking all the assists.

No be the same Costa they both played with?

Lord, if you give me chance in this life, let it be painless like KDB and Fabregas chance, not the one I will still be battling with opposition like Hazard chance.

do you know that opta has made it easy for us to find out the flaw in this your argument.

There is something opta calls expected assists; that is, a chance that is most expected to become an assist. That is in essence what you like to call a quality chance. You Can go and get that stats for both players so that we can compare to see how heads and shoulder KDB is above hazard.


Again, how many times do you see hazard put in a cross across the face of goal? It is even KDB that makes more of such cross than Hazard.

When KDB used to play as a winger, his main way of creating chances used to be from the far flank across goal hoping that someone will get at the end of it.

The position a player plays also determines how many crosses he will be making from the byline. You don't expect a winger to be making crosses from the middle when he is playing from the flanks. I don't know how you don't consider that.

Greatihex:
do you know that opta has made it easy for us to find out the flaw in this your argument.

There is something opta calls expected assists; that is, a chance that is most expected to become an assist. That is in essence what you like to call a quality chance. You Can go and get that stats for both players so that we can compare to see how heads and shoulder KDB is above hazard.


Again, how many times do you see hazard put in a cross across the face of goal? It is even KDB that makes more of such cross than Hazard.

When KDB used to play as a winger, his main way of creating chances used to be from the far flank across goal hoping that someone will get at the end of it.

The position a player plays also determines how many crosses he will be making from the byline. You don't expect a winger to be making crosses from the middle when he is playing from the flanks. I don't know how you don't consider that.

KDB cross ball quickly and decisively to man from the wing as you saw against Spurs

If Hazard receive ball in those KDB positions against Spurs, he will take his time to dribble, run to the line and release one useless cutback after the box is already packed with opposition players that would block off or unbalance the striker.

Sorry, OPTA has already released those expected assists stats in case you missed it

KDB - 122 EPL appearances - 69 big chances
Hazard - 245 EPL appearances - 67 big chances

Ibime:


KDB cross ball quickly and decisively to man from the wing as you saw against Spurs

If Hazard receive ball in those KDB positions against Spurs, he will take his time to dribble, run to the line and release one useless cutback after the box is already packed with opposition players that would block off or unbalance the striker.

Sorry, OPTA has already released those expected assists stats in case you missed it


KDB - 122 EPL appearances - 69 big chances
Hazard - 245 EPL appearances - 67 big chances

sorry, the bold is not xassist or xchances created.


You must be mistaking hazard for another player. Hazard style is not the typical cross and nod or tap in. He rarely does that. He likes to cut in and lay a pass.

Many assists won't be recorded if you have useless strikers like Morata at the end of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1AmM6Kswc4

Swissh:

With his poverty stricken numbers for Belgium

100matches 17 goals from open play . Rubbish

Diabolical to say the least

He had Diego Costa and was dropping 7 assist in 2 seasons. Your morata propaganda is dead on arrival.

Greatihex:
sorry, the bold is not xassist or xchances created.

Big chances have strong correlation with xassist

An assist is not usually expected unless the chance is of good quality

A poor chance could for example be assigned 5% of scoring, whilst a big chance could be assigned 100%. Therefore under XA you may need to create 20 poor chances to get the same XA as someone who created one big chance eg a tapin. Therefore when we see your big chance stats, we more or less know XA will follow the same pattern. In other words, KDB who creates double the number of big chances will roughly have double the XA of Hazard over the same number of games.

You are digging bigger hole for yourself here because Hazard expected assist is less than his actual assist. That is because he creates LOW QUALITY chances.

Hazard last season had 11.57 expected assists but 15 actual assists

Ryan Fraser for example had 16.18 expected assists but only 14 actual assists

KDB with his limited playing time had 7 expected assists though he only posted 2 actual assists - that means his chances were of high quality aka big chances.

If you have the XA stats for their time in EPL feel free to avail us and we will see KDB wiping floor with Hazard again.

At this rate NUC has to withdraw the certificate of operation of the so-called citadel.

Look at the substandard graduates they are putting out with their k-legged logic.
Folks are sropping stats and facts based on what they see. Citadel alumnus jus dey type nonsense in a bid to defend the honor of ikebe super. Now na to shift goalpost to blame Morata.

It's what you get when a certified lunatic believes he can school anybody on a largely faceless forum. A few lucky guesses and suddenly he feels he's the next thing to Dudu Orumen.

Melvyn11:
He had Diego Costa and was dropping 7 assist in 2 seasons. Your morata propaganda is dead on arrival.

Never knew it was two seasons Costa spent at Chelsea, under conservative coaches. Mumu.

airmark:


Never knew it was two seasons Costa spent at Chelsea, under conservative coaches. Mumu.

Is there any excuse you have not used to defend Hazard?

You are dragging Morata when they brought up Costa, you moved to the manager. Was it another manager that was there when Fabregas was supplying double digit assist to same Costa?

It is not even arguement you will win. Learn this and know peace.

larride:


Is there any excuse you have not used to defend Hazard?

You are dragging Morata when they brought up Costa, you moved to the manager. Was it another manager that was there when Fabregas was supplying double digit assist to same Costa?

It is not even arguement you will win. Learn this and know peace.

I come with facts. We know how Mourinho demanded his wingers to fall deep and how you scummies said it hindered your wingers contributions upfront, so don't go there. Unless you want me to dig your a.sses out. It would have made sense if other wingers were topping Hazard's assists under Mou. He still tried more than all your wingers under Mou. None of your wingers had more than 6 assists.

Now to Fabregas, you exposed your technical knowledge of football. Where are his heatmaps? Was Fabregas required to quickly run the length of the pitch like wingers, while switching from attack to defence?. Did he have more options upfront to give assists than Hazard and did conservative approach helped him to pick players upfront? Anyone that knows football and watched Fabregas then, wouldn't ask that question.

You are even comparing Fabregas that hardly got pressured to a player your team had to ask one of your players to be following up and down for 90mins.

Don't just jump into an argument uninvited, with limited knowledge.

The argument of De Bruyne Vs Hazard about vision and assist making is one that shouldn't drag on for long. When it comes to dribbling and goalscoring Hazard edges De Bruyne but when it comes to spraying passes and assist-making De Bruyne is heads and shoulders above Hazard this is no disrespect to Hazard but factual truth of the matter.
De Bruyne topped assists in Germany and has done so in England the same can't be said for Hazard except for his last season in England which is an outlier not the norm.

airmark:


I come with facts. We know how Mourinho demanded his wingers to fall deep and how you scummies said it hindered your wingers contributions upfront, so don't go there. Unless you want me to dig your a.sses out. It would have made sense if other wingers were topping Hazard's assists under Mou. He still tried more than all your wingers under Mou. None of your wingers had more than 6 assists.

Now to Fabregas, you exposed your technical knowledge of football. Where are his heatmaps? Was Fabregas required to quickly run the length of the pitch like wingers, while switching from attack to defence?. Anyone that knows football and watched Fabregas then, wouldn't ask that question.

You are even comparing Fabregas that hardly got pressured to a player your team had to ask one of your players to be following up and down for 90mins.

Don't just jump into an argument uninvited, with limited knowledge.

You are the one that will keep shifting the goal post everytime to defend Hazard.

Firstly, you brought Morata clips to show why Hazard doesn’t have enough assist. When someone else reminded you that Hazard played with Costa and he still
had low assist, you shifted to the manager.

Secondly, none of our wingers are on Hazard level, so if those players are what you want to use to compare Hazard then maybe Hazard water has found his level.

Everyone is at fault for Hazard inability to have assist except Hazard himself. I’m sure you will still shift the excuse to the size of the pitch or the color of the ball.

Everybody have their style of play, so expecting hazard to continually top de bruyne in assist wen both are in form and barring injuries is an insult to debruyne and expecting de bruyne to excel in wings like hazard is an insult to hazard. They both bring something to the tables and play their roles well, so they shouldn't be compared. But if there's any playing ground to compare the two of them, then it's best player category which hazard edges over kdb very well. In as much people will say he doesn't score or nor assist enough, but I guess nobody will dispute the fact that he doesn't deserve both pfa he won(at least no argument over that), so until de bruyne with all his playmaking does that, he'll still be below hazard for impact. Let him try his luck cos pfa is the award being given to player that is exceptionally brilliant over a course of the season, if kdb is one let him do it in England.

Hazard is a super player, very good with the ball at his feet but then, this argument is about certain aspects of their game.

Just like Messi in attack who almost always does the right thing, he shoots when he is supposed to shoot, passes when he is supposed to pass and at times, he sees what even we who are watching don't see, so is De Bruyne in midfield, he knows when the pass and at what weight. At the moment, only player that comes close to De Bruyne and Messi in terms of knowing what to do with the ball at almost all times is Erikson.

Hazard is much like Ribery, they have their own unique quality, they draw opposition players towards themselves creating space others. Messi also has this ability (The reason why most folks think he is the best and rightly so).

The both are excellent players though...

airmark:
Many assists won't be recorded if you have useless strikers like Morata at the end of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1AmM6Kswc4

Mehn FBS too sef na other problem o.

my God

nihilistjnr:


Mehn FBS too sef na other problem o.

my God

Give him 2-3 seasons to adjust to his new role as the successor to Hazard. He will come good. I promise you.

I see a lot of positives in his game, and he will definitely build on the foundation he built under Sarri.
Sarri’s foundation was solid, and built with concrete and not even a single brick was utilized.

patrickmuf:
Hazard is a super player, very good with the ball at his feet but then, this argument is about certain aspects of their game.

Just like Messi in attack who almost always does the right thing, he shoots when he is supposed to shoot, passes when he is supposed to pass and at times, he sees what even we who are watching don't see, so is De Bruyne in midfield, he knows when the pass and at what weight. At the moment, only player that comes close to De Bruyne and Messi in terms of knowing what to do with the ball at almost all times is Erikson.

Hazard is much like Ribery, they have their own unique quality, they draw opposition players towards themselves creating space others. Messi also has this ability (The reason why most folks think he is the best and rightly so).

The both are excellent player though...

I don't know how these arguments come up.

afrodoc2:


Give him 2-3 seasons to adjust to his new role as the successor to Hazard. He will come good. I promise you.

I see a lot of positives in his game, and he will definitely build on the foundation he built under Sarri.
Sarri’s foundation was solid, and built with concrete and not even a single brick was utilized.

The chain smoker is down with pneumonia: https://www.nairaland.com/5368936/juventus-confirm-sarri-diagnosed-pneumonia

larride:

Everyone is at fault for Hazard inability to have assist except Hazard himself. I’m sure you will still shift the excuse to the size of the pitch or the color of the ball.

This season it will be Benzema Marcelo, Bale and others. Belgium it was Lukaku, Chelsea it was Morata who he played with for 1.5 seasons.

15/16 and 16/17 Hazard played with Costa and dropped 9 assists combined in 2 seasons

raumdeuter:


This season it will be Benzema Marcelo, Bale and others. Belgium it was Lukaku, Chelsea it was Morata who he played with for 1.5 seasons.

15/16 and 16/17 Hazard played with Costa and dropped 9 assists combined in 2 seasons

Hazard is a very good player. Infact I will take him in my team without thinking twice. He has his qualities, strength and style of play but sometimes you just have to accept that some people are better than him in some certain categories.

Ibime:


Big chances have strong correlation with xassist

An assist is not usually expected unless the chance is of good quality

A poor chance could for example be assigned 5% of scoring, whilst a big chance could be assigned 100%. Therefore under XA you may need to create 20 poor chances to get the same XA as someone who created one big chance eg a tapin. Therefore when we see your big chance stats, we more or less know XA will follow the same pattern. In other words, KDB who creates double the number of big chances will roughly have double the XA of Hazard over the same number of games.


You are digging bigger hole for yourself here because Hazard expected assist is less than his actual assist. That is because he creates LOW QUALITY chances.

Hazard last season had 11.57 expected assists but 15 actual assists

Ryan Fraser for example had 16.18 expected assists but only 14 actual assists


KDB with his limited playing time had 7 expected assists though he only posted 2 actual assists - that means his chances were of high quality aka big chances.

If you have the XA stats for their time in EPL feel free to avail us and we will see KDB wiping floor with Hazard again.

you just helped me to make my point with the bold. This is the stats for xA for hazard last season.
Like i have always told you, assists is not the measure of a player's creativity or vision.
Were you thinking that the time hazard was having those 4 and 5 number of assists that he was having maybe 2 and 3 xA? Or that when KDB was having 16 and 18 assists that he was having upto 16 and 18 xA respectively?

The season that KDB had 16 and 18 assists, you will be surprised to find out that he did not have up to the same amount for xA. Also, all the years that hazard was having a poor assists number, he was having more xA.

Now, let us say KDB had 16 assists and 12.97 xA and Hazard had 4 assists 6.78 xA.

Without looking at this assists stat now, someone will say that hazard is a poor creator. But, when the lord wants to bless hazard and give him extra 4 to his xA the way he gave to KDB, you will see that hazard will have 10 assists and you will no longer see it as a mediocre number.


That is exactly What happened last season and the opposite is what have been happening years back.


Have you not tried to ask yourself, why is it that when hazard had Costa in his team he was having 9, 4 and 5, but when he had no reasonable striker [e.g. Last season] he had 15 assists. Why was it so?

larride:


You are the one that will keep shifting the goal post everytime to defend Hazard.

Firstly, you brought Morata clips to show why Hazard doesn’t have enough assist. When someone else reminded you that Hazard played with Costa and he still
had low assist, you shifted to the manager.

Secondly, none of our wingers are on Hazard level, so if those players are what you want to use to compare Hazard then maybe Hazard water has found his level.

Everyone is at fault for Hazard inability to have assist except Hazard himself. I’m sure you will still shift the excuse to the size of the pitch or the color of the ball.

If you had followed the convo since yesterday when i asked donjazet some questions, you wouldn't ignorantly say i only blamed Morata for the low number of assists or believed i was shifting post.

Hazard had many constraints that he faced at Chelsea and having no clinical striker was one of them. I don't have enough time to list them and every sound mind would ask, why didn't other winger at Chelsea outperform Hazard under those circumstances while at Chelsea?

Ibime wasn't stupid.

Ibime:
Hazard will leave this club

Imagine playing with Bakayoko, Zappacosta, new signings that are totally demoralising like Drinkbleach, Barkley, signing likes of Palmieri just returning from ACL, buying 32 year old Dzeko, bidding for Carroll etc.

If I'm Hazard, thunder will fire my father if I don't leave this useless club.

Regarding your team not having any winger at Hazard level, good that you could say the truth when he is no more with us.

https://www.squawka.com/en/features/xg-xa-stats-premier-league

https://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2017/11/21/16687422/arsenal-premier-league-advanced-statistics-xg-expected-goals-league-wide



https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11119595/expected-assists-what-does-it-mean-and-who-tops-the-list


Only four players, all of whom are out-and-out strikers, reached 50 Premier League goals for Chelsea in fewer appearances than Eden Hazard (155 games). Hazard reached the milestone in 29 fewer games than fellow club icon Frank Lampard.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-are-expected-goals-xg-and-expected-assists-xa-why-are-they-a-good-measure-of-player-performances


https://sportstar.thehindu.com/football/eden-hazard-chelsea-transfer-news-real-madrid-la-liga-premier-league-england-football-opta-stats-europa-league/article27346229.ece

Ibime:


KDB cross ball quickly and decisively to man from the wing as you saw against Spurs

If Hazard receive ball in those KDB positions against Spurs, he will take his time to dribble, run to the line and release one useless cutback after the box is already packed with opposition players that would block off or unbalance the striker.

Sorry, OPTA has already released those expected assists stats in case you missed it

KDB - 122 EPL appearances - 69 big chances
Hazard - 245 EPL appearances - 67 big chances

Ibime what is expected from wingers of today compare to old days by the coach? Can you show me wingers of nowadays that don’t cut in to score by themselves. Football don change, wingers are expected to score this days than assisting. They are expected to create chances too and dribble to open space or cause free kick. KDB is playing from the middle, Hazard is playing from flank so it is expected of KDB to make one time pass because that is his primary duty unlike Hazard.

Oga ibime, do you think hazard would have broken Lampard's record if he had stayed up to the number of years Lampard stayed at Chelsea?

Greatihex:
you just helped me to make my point with the bold. This is the stats for xA for hazard last season.
Like i have always told you, assists is not the measure of a player's creativity or vision.
Were you thinking that the time hazard was having those 4 and 5 number of assists that he was having maybe 2 and 3 xA? Or that when KDB was having 16 and 18 assists that he was having upto 16 and 18 xA respectively?

The season that KDB had 16 and 18 assists, you will be surprised to find out that he did not have up to the same amount for xA. Also, all the years that hazard was having a poor assists number, he was having more xA.

Now, let us say KDB had 16 assists and 12.97 xA and Hazard had 4 assists 6.78 xA.

Mr Man, stop turning facts on their head.

Either go and bring DeBruyne XA stats for that season or quit creating false impression.

Hazard 15 assists for last season was an outlier and his XA stats proved his teammates did him favour to convert low quality chances.

DeBruyne every season has consistently high assists. His big chances stats confirm it. And his XA stats will confirm it too if you care to appraise us of those stats

Don't think we didn't go to school that you will see A and call it B. Some of us know how to draw reasonable conclusions by correlation.

For those who don't know what started my argument with oga ibime.

Oga ibime said that hazard is not anywhere close to KDB in vision and assists.

My own argument is on vision; what it means and how it can be measured for a player.
From getting the stats, we can now determine if Ibime's claim is correct or not.

larride:


You are the one that will keep shifting the goal post everytime to defend Hazard.

Firstly, you brought Morata clips to show why Hazard doesn’t have enough assist. When someone else reminded you that Hazard played with Costa and he still
had low assist, you shifted to the manager.

Secondly, none of our wingers are on Hazard level, so if those players are what you want to use to compare Hazard then maybe Hazard water has found his level.

Everyone is at fault for Hazard inability to have assist except Hazard himself. I’m sure you will still shift the excuse to the size of the pitch or the color of the ball.

Who topped assist chart last season in epl? What we are saying is this before you compare two players a lot of factors have to be put in place; e.g, the team quality and coach he play for because these two factors can hinder or improve a quality player. Same KDB Mou said is not good enough and prefer Oscar to him. But pep will say otherwise about KDB. But Hazard can survive any whether because his quality is top notch, he is not a systematic player hence every coach will want him in their team. Or you think if they put sterling and Hazard for ground for pep to choose him go choose sterling.

Ibime:


Mr Man, stop turning facts on their head.

Either go and bring DeBruyne XA stats for that season or quit creating false impression.

Hazard 15 assists for last season was an outlier and his XA stats proved his teammates did him favour to convert low quality chances.


DeBruyne every season has consistently high assists. His big chances stats confirm it. And his XA stats will confirm it too if you care to appraise us of those stats


Don't think we didn't go to school that you will see A and call it B. Some of us know how to draw reasonable conclusions by correlation.

i don't know if where else to get the xA stats. But, from one of the links that i posted you can see that KDB's teammates have also been helping to give him awoof assists, which is the same for every player that ever tops the chart. Players like sane benefit from it a lot.
Meanwhile, some players have been done bad by their teammates, which is usually the case for players like david silva and Hazard.




BTW, you didn't answer the questions. Especially the last one

Greatihex:
Oga ibime, do you think hazard would have broken Lampard's record if he had stayed up to the number of years Lampard stayed at Chelsea?

It took 7 years of his prime to hit 110 goals.

He would need another 102 to break Lampard record which is another 7 years roughly.

Do you think he would score at the same rate till the age of 36?

Mind you Lampard stayed 13 years, the last 3 years as a defensive midfielder, so he did most of his work in 10 years.