Obere4u:


Stats don't lie.. Ask Oga Ramdeuter

Swissh:

All of a sudden the guy said he wanted bas dost at Chelsea

Eruditor:


But the Van Bronkhorst rumour is binding on City or am I missing something?

Just based on common sense, which is most likely to be believed? The rumour or the one that emanated from the mouth of Pep himself?

BTW, Soriano and Txiki were hired by City to emulate the Barcelona model. It is the same reason they went on to hire the same manager who typified those philosophies and values you make reference to and he is evidently delivering on the mandate.

spillo1:

I tire o. bas dost is their another bas dost that I don't know of. I won't even wish dost for spineless arsenal.

airmark:


So when Allison stupidly gifted Iheanacho one goal in August 2018, were you one of those that condemned him for being a useless keeper, because of that 1 high profile howler?. Subsequently in December 2018, Allison gave united another gift, but no, 1 high profile mistake in a new season is all needed to condemn VVD. You are terrible.

Roland17:


Core philosophies of any team is not built on hiring and firing, they are natural and ingrown cultures within an organization hinged in the history, mission, vision and values upon which the organization was founded. It remains consistent irrespective of who comes or leaves the organization, consequently hiring Pep, Txiki, and Soriano has no consequence and can not replicate the Barcelona model because you don’t buy models/ organizational cultures.

More so, the Van Bronkhorst situation is not a rumor, you may want to update yourself on the situation. He has signed with City on an unknown capacity and has been given all access to City’s organization, including the dressing room. He gave up his planned 1 year sabbatical to sign with City after stepping down from Feyenoord. Now, does that mean he is now the substantive coach or has any coaching role? Absolutely not but it does provide a bite to the rumors.

Pep can have his preference but City have no compulsion to stick or follow his preference because they are operating on a totally different ideology.

raumdeuter:


Ask me if Bas Dost is better than Etoo Drogba Demba Ba, Higuain Diego Costa and all the strikers Hazard played with in Chelsea

Eruditor:


You have time.

Some arguments are not worth it.

I knew it the very moment I saw people here blaming Zidane for Hazard's early failures.

Zidane all of a sudden should use Chelsea's model for a Hazard that could not lead the team to 3 UCL titles. I wonder how that same model will now help RM win anything?

Obere4u:


Lol... Make we finish one na..

Bar Costa and somehow Ba.. Others have passed their prime before Hazard played with them.

Obere4u:


My argument isn't about Hazard.. My argument still remains

Is Bas Dost a useless striker?

Roland17:


Core philosophies of any team is not built on hiring and firing, they are natural and ingrown cultures within an organization hinged in the history, mission, vision and values upon which the organization was founded. It remains consistent irrespective of who comes or leaves the organization, consequently hiring Pep, Txiki, and Soriano has no consequence and can not replicate the Barcelona model because you don’t buy models/ organizational cultures.

More so, the Van Bronkhorst situation is not a rumor, you may want to update yourself on the situation. He has signed with City on an unknown capacity and has been given all access to City’s organization, including the dressing room. He gave up his planned 1 year sabbatical to sign with City after stepping down from Feyenoord. Now, does that mean he is now the substantive coach or has any coaching role? Absolutely not but it does provide a bite to the rumors.

Pep can have his preference but City have no compulsion to stick or follow his preference because they are operating on a totally different ideology.

Kimbeast:

Van Bronkhorst is dutch, so he's aware of Cryuff philosophy. He has a good profile like that of Guardiola except that he hasn't managed big teams.

spillo1:

Bas dost is better than morata and higuain and all the useless strikers hazard has played with. He is Soo good he has not played for any top teams.

EOD.

Obere4u:


Lol... Make we finish one na..

Bar Costa and somehow Ba.. Others have passed their prime before Hazard played with them.

raumdeuter:


And how did Hazard fare with Ba and Costa that were in their prime

raumdeuter:


Is Bas Dost better than strikers Hazard played with like Costa?

KdB delivered with Bas Dost Hazard couldnt deliver with Costa

In the same NT with the same players, KdB is delivering more than Hazard who do we blame for that

Obere4u:


My argument isn't about Hazard.. My argument still remains

Is Bas Dost a useless striker?

Obere4u:


But hazard is outscoring him.. So balance equation

raumdeuter:


VVD is not a level above Trent or Matip. They are all on the same level with Alisson Fabinho and Robertson being better than others

Eruditor:


It is furtively about Hazard.

It is - KdBs assist numbers are great because he has played with better strikers than Hazard has had to deal with.

That is essentially what you are saying.

So Spillo brought up Wolfsburg to refute that argument and all of a sudden, Bas Dost is the best thing since sliced bread.

Eruditor:


But if they bring Neymar ourscoring Hazard same you will refute it and say Hazard does not care about scoring.

Eruditor:


So these core philosophies, cultures, values could not have started in 2010 with the emergence of the new ownership? I am sure you have heard or read about acquired culture or culture appropriation. I hope you know too that the philosophies of the clubs you posited as examples were acquired as well.

Is Van Bronkhorst occupying any position and status that Viera did not at some point in time? I ask because he was touted to replace Mancini and later Pellegrini but he is nowhere to be found now.

So you don't know Van's position in City, you know Arteta's but somehow Van's own has more bite than Arteta's because "the bipolar baldy" is involved?

I actually thought Pep held sway in City and did what he liked but you have brought another dimension to things. I hope to use this post some time in the future when he wins again and the argument will be because he got everything he wanted.

Eruditor:


So anyone that is Dutch is aware of Cryuff's philosophy?

Kimbeast:

His Feyenord team brought me to that conclusion.

A40:
Who said VVD was useless? I don't know why you always use unrelated hyperbole to buttress your non existent points.

A40:
That's his usual work. Pointing like traffic man while the likes of Robertson, Trent and Joel Matip are doing the heavy lifting. That's how he took the glory of Allison in the CL as well.

Roland17:


What do Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Valdes, Busquets, Puyol, Guardiola, Fabregas have in common? They are all products of the farm house, the La Masia which is a core value of Barcelona. These guys played integral roles during different eras to keep Barcelona at the top of European club football.

The city of Barcelona is the spiritual home of Catalonia and it is buttressed in the flag of the team, arm band and other paraphernalia. Those are examples of history and core values that can not be acquired or transferred. Those are what defines a team, team identity or organizational identity and culture. When fans of Barcelona say the bleed Catalonia and are called Catalans it is because it because the values were there before they were born and will remain after they leave the earth. You don’t appropriate those, you don’t acquire those, you can’t replicate that. Those are the foundations upon which Barcelona exists. Not the trophies, money or players.

Can the same be said of City? Name one player from City’s academy that is a prominent first team player since Arab money. City’s model after Arab money, before and after Pep and his crew from Barcelona has been the same and that is to build a world class team by buying the best players in the market. It will not change after Pep and his crew leaves, as long as Arab money is there. So stop comparing the Barcelona model to City’s model because there is a stark contrast.

If Arab money departs City is there any assurance that any of those players will remain at City? Or will City become the new Malaga?

I have never hated on Pep’s success in England, one of my biggest grievance with him and Dayo and others can tell you is the way he has handled my boy Sane and that is why I call him the bald bi-polar. I am very careful debating his success because it can be argued both sides so I stay away.

patrickmuf:
Hehehe Matip along with TAA are the weakest link in that otherwise compact defense. Robertson is great though but I won't put him on the same level with VDD but he is above TAA in the way he balances attack and defense... Yesterday, all Sheffield United did to a long ball down his wing and every time he was caught up field, Klopp had to instruct Hendo to cover for him.

Allison and VDD are up there with the best closely followed by Robertson then TAA...I don't rate Matip.

A40:
Yes. It's only mumu casuals like you that have not woken up to smell the coffee. Matip is not making mistakes that condemn his team to defeat like VVD

Eruditor:


Arteta as well. He is a la masia product.

How long did La masia exist and when last did Barcelona promote players from there who have gone on to be fixtures in the senior team? Besides, no team just aimlessly promotes graduates from a youth academy. You compare them to what you currently have and make projections based on that. Something that is becoming a model with current City.

Also, between Football club Barcelona and entity called Catalonia which came first? I am sure you also know that the original design of the team was to have only players from that region representing the team? How much of that model or philosophy is still in existence today? The take-home point in this is, some people decided to make catalan values a signature of the football club and another group of people can decide to adopt some of those values to Manchester City. After all, people's values cross-match themselves.

You say Barca fans are Catalans because they have had those values before they were born. That is 50% of the truth. The other 50% is due to the fact that the ownership still perpetuate those same values. If ownership changes, so will the values. It is the reason present day Barca is dominated by almost a galaticos-like model which was frowned upon years before. We can effectively say Barcelona today has acquired the win-at-all-cost mentality that did not exist according to Catalan values. This is an aside from the fact that the club has become more profit-oriented (putting a sponsor on the shirt) when the original values that started the club forbade such in it's tenet.

I know you don't know much about the club I support so I will let you in on a little info before answering your question. Pique was sold to United. Pep re-signed him. Fabregas was sold. Pep re-signed him. Xavi was on his way out to Bayern. Pep made him stay back. Even Carlos Puyol was to be sold twice to Malaga and United. It was not any value system that made him stay back except for either money or that he was better than what Barca had. So you can spare us of this narrative about players from the academy and Phil Foden is a perfect example of a talent who City hope to make a poster child of their academy. But he is going to have be better than the current midfielders to break into the first team prominently. Something Lionel Messi had to experience himself.

The argument about Arab money or not is moot. Barca where in a crisis in 2003 and still went to acquire Ronaldinho (a non-academy player) to save the club. The same way United leaned on non-academy players like Ferdinand, Vidic, CR7 and Rooney to perpetuate the success of the 92-academy players they had. Models, values, philosophies are very much acquired.

As per Sané, you are simply crying more than the bereaved. I read somewhere when you said he did not make the world cup squad because Pep was benching him and I laughed myself to sleep. Because the only reason everyone cried blue murder at Sané's non-inclusion in the national team, was because of the form he had developed playing for Pep in the 17/18 season where he had double-digit goals and assists. For context, that World cup was in June of 2018 after City had won the league and Carabao cup. Sané's best season as a footballer till date.

airmark:


You are supposed to be a Chelsea fan, can we swap you and lordfalcao?. You know ball

Obere4u:


Lol... He did well