One clown was asking of the injection they give combatants

Jafdoc:
When it comes to effective use of technology to solve problem Nigeria as country is a total failure. I have my reason to say this; many examples abound which are testament to this fact.

Many modern armies have combat helicopter units that give close combat support to ground units. Why have we not done this long ago? I ask a very senior officer in the Navy who is related to me this question and his response shows lack of understanding of how modern warfare has evolved and I was shocked. The sentiment is that, if army controls combat helicopters they will gradually make the Nigerian Air Force irrelevant. My officer friends in the Air Force share this sentiment more. Inter service rivalry is a big hindrance in the anti insurgency war. The Air Force is not happy with the fact that the Army want to acquire combat helicopters.

One of the major problems in the northeast operations is the fact that Air Force response time when ground force call for air support is fucking slow. The insurgents must have finished their party before the Air Force arrive.

I don't know why the Army has not taken the bold step to acquire combat helicopters for this war all these while. The Nigerian government is messing up for failing to give to the army what is already component of modern armies around the world.
[

all this one wey u dy talk..na long story..if u make the list just zero your mind kawai..u think say all those generals know anything about modern combat...bro na new breed of servicemen like you we need and na why men like you and others gats answer the clarion call.. ND if God helps.. we are able to climb up the ladder and become senior men..maybe then things will change... but note one thing u cant change anything if u are not around the decision making table.. so let's all pray we live to be among those making decisions for the army sooner rather than later.. cos time is not our side.. the army is crying out for radical progressives...u don't learn that in school it is just imbedded in some humans..i mean humans that are not moved by money.. any human not moved by money always takes a rational decision...NG5over ND out..

it has been proven times without number that one man can change the course of history.. but one thing is certain.. u never know if u can unless u try..so why not try?... anyone here planning to change the course of history must believe in hard work and must be ready to behave like a machine...because trying to help the army win this war against insurgency is like changing the course of history.. many men have tried and failed but if we can learn from their mistakes..coupled with hard work, tenacity,determination,a little bit of luck..then maybe we can stand a chance..NG5 over and out

piscesgem:

*Modified
Now I get it,

Calm down.

Ugo4u said he was KIA..... Kindly modify your post to respect the dead. Thanks.

Jafdoc:
When it comes to effective use of technology to solve problem Nigeria as country is a total failure. I have my reason to say this; many examples abound which are testament to this fact.

Many modern armies have combat helicopter units that give close combat support to ground units. Why have we not done this long ago? I ask a very senior officer in the Navy who is related to me this question and his response shows lack of understanding of how modern warfare has evolved and I was shocked. The sentiment is that, if army controls combat helicopters they will gradually make the Nigerian Air Force irrelevant. My officer friends in the Air Force share this sentiment more. Inter service rivalry is a big hindrance in the anti insurgency war. The Air Force is not happy with the fact that the Army want to acquire combat helicopters.

One of the major problems in the northeast operations is the fact that Air Force response time when ground force call for air support is fucking slow. The insurgents must have finished their party before the Air Force arrive.

I don't know why the Army has not taken the bold step to acquire combat helicopters for this war all these while. The Nigerian government is messing up for failing to give to the army what is already component of modern armies around the world.
[

#WORD

Jafdoc:
When it comes to effective use of technology to solve problem Nigeria as country is a total failure. I have my reason to say this; many examples abound which are testament to this fact.

Many modern armies have combat helicopter units that give close combat support to ground units. Why have we not done this long ago? I ask a very senior officer in the Navy who is related to me this question and his response shows lack of understanding of how modern warfare has evolved and I was shocked. The sentiment is that, if army controls combat helicopters they will gradually make the Nigerian Air Force irrelevant. My officer friends in the Air Force share this sentiment more. Inter service rivalry is a big hindrance in the anti insurgency war. The Air Force is not happy with the fact that the Army want to acquire combat helicopters.

One of the major problems in the northeast operations is the fact that Air Force response time when ground force call for air support is fucking slow. The insurgents must have finished their party before the Air Force arrive.

I don't know why the Army has not taken the bold step to acquire combat helicopters for this war all these while. The Nigerian government is messing up for failing to give to the army what is already component of modern armies around the world.
[

It's wrong to lay the blame entirely on the army. What most of us don't understand is that the Army and military imextension is not a revenue generating organisation, they have to depend on politicians(Executive/legislature) to make proper laws and provide funding for the military.
Moreover the army in recent years trained some helicopter pilots, they're currently doing their type rating overseas. Go check the budget for the military last year and how much was eventually released you will realise that we're facing a hydra-headed problem due to unnecessary beaureocracy and corruption at the top echelon especially from the political class.
The so much hyped "theiving Generals" can only steal when funds is made available in the first place, which could be checkmated when forensic auditing is done by relevant agencies.

ugo4u:

It's wrong to lay the blame entirely on the army. What most of us don't understand is that the Army and military imextension is not a revenue generating organisation, they have to depend on politicians(Executive/legislature) to make proper laws and provide funding for the military.
Moreover the army in recent years trained some helicopter pilots, they're currently doing their type rating overseas. Go check the budget for the military last year and how much was eventually released you will realise that we're facing a hydra-headed problem due to unnecessary beaureocracy and corruption at the top echelon especially from the political class.
The so much hyped "theiving Generals" can only steal when funds is made available in the first place, which could be checkmated when forensic auditing is done by relevant agencies.

Exactly. The politicians are carting away the money while the army keeps begging for funds, meanwhile as we wait, lives are being wasted.

ugo4u:

It's wrong to lay the blame entirely on the army. What most of us don't understand is that the Army and military imextension is not a revenue generating organisation, they have to depend on politicians(Executive/legislature) to make proper laws and provide funding for the military.
Moreover the army in recent years trained some helicopter pilots, they're currently doing their type rating overseas. Go check the budget for the military last year and how much was eventually released you will realise that we're facing a hydra-headed problem due to unnecessary beaureocracy and corruption at the top echelon especially from the political class.
The so much hyped "theiving Generals" can only steal when funds is made available in the first place, which could be checkmated when forensic auditing is done by relevant agencies.

Read my post again, and you will notice that I didn't put the blame on only one side.

A serious nation will solve security problem with the urgency that it deserve.

While waiting for the helicopters that have been ordered to arrive. There is nothing wrong in transferring those helicopters in the air force to the army. At the moment, the army need those helicopters more than the air force. The air assets belong to the federal government, they have the power to transfer them to the service branch where it is highly needed as a matter of urgency.

How long do they want the war to drag on? How long are we going to wait for army helicopters to arrive?

Just check the US Army, British Army, you will find that they control combat helicopters NOT Air Force. Air force should concern themselves with strategic war assets such as fighter jets and long range bombers, that's what the United States Air Force and the Royal Air Force does.

Air Force have no need for large number of combat helicopters. Only army actually need large number of combat helicopters.

Jafdoc:


Read my post again, and you will notice that I didn't put the blame on only one side.

A serious nation will solve security problem with the urgency that it deserve.

While waiting for the helicopters that have been ordered to arrive. There is nothing wrong in transferring those helicopters in the air force to the army. At the moment, the army need those helicopters more than the air force. The air assets belong to the federal government, they have the power to transfer them to the service branch where it is highly needed as a matter of urgency.

How long do they want the war to drag on? How long are we going to wait for army helicopters to arrive?

Just check the US Army, British Army, you will find that they control combat helicopters NOT Air Force. Air force should concern themselves with strategic war assets such as fighter jets and long range bombers, that's what the United States Air Force and the Royal Air Force does.

Air Force have no need for large number of combat helicopters. Only army actually need large number of combat helicopters.

Who told you the army needs the helicopters more than the airforce? and even if they give them the helos who will fly them? do you think it is easy to train just one pilot? you must be type rated to fly a specific Heli the fact that you can fly helicopter doesn't mean you can fly all kinds just like vehicles. That's why after the basic helicopter training they go for further training on specific aircraft the army wanna operate with.
That's by the way is it not money you will need to fly the helicopters? to fly just one sorties do you know how many million it cost the airforce in fuelling and maintenance for each mission. Infact the airforce under Abubakar Sadique has seen tremendous growth in its history, we now have more platforms and we've refitted moribund aircrafts to fly again, all this within very tight budget.
The whole thing still boils down to funds, even if the airforce hand over its entire fleet to the army things will even get worst, because you need avgas to fly them which cost huge sums of money.

blazex24:

Where be ur location?

I dey take location to agip fly over

Lol.... You assumed I just type without knowledge of what I am talking about?

I know the air force very well. And I know about their assets. If you know anything about combat, then you should know that combat helicopters are usually for close combat operations. By the way, what are close combat operations? Which service branch have primary role in close combat actions? If you can answer these questions then you will understand which service branch need helicopters more.

There are templates we can copy and adapt for our use. What I mean here is that, other armies around the world keep combat helicopters while air force concern themselves with jets and bombers.

You talked about fuel and maintenance, Sadiq Abubakar bla bla bla. I can only laugh at those yapping. Look if any agency keep such asset, they have got budgetary provisions for servicing and maintenance of such asset. You can't tell me to start clapping because they put fuel in an aircraft. Money was provided for such.

When I talked about transferring asset to the army, officers that will man them can as well be seconded to the army. No big deal. Check for yourself to see; the first chief of air staff in Nigeria was an army brigadier general from my town. He was seconded from the army to the air force in the 1960s. The federal government can still do that.

Point of correction: Gas turbine engines which helicopters are fitted with use Jet A1 (kerosene) NOT AvGas. It is my field that's why I know. I am talking about helicopters NOT other aircraft, so no need to mention AvGas.

Google Brigadier Emmanuel Ebije Ikwue and read his profile. There was Colonel Shittu Alao before him. But Colonel Alao used the designation " Commander of the Nigerian Air Force''

Brigadier Ebije Ikwue was the first to use the designation " Chief of Air Staff " in Nigeria.

Both Colonel Alao and Brigadier Ebije Ikwue were seconded from the army to the air force.

Jafdoc:


Lol.... You assumed I just type without knowledge of what I am talking about?

I know the air force very well. And I know about their assets. If you know anything about combat, then you should know that combat helicopters are usually for close combat operations. By the way, what are close combat operations? Which service branch have primary role in close combat actions? If you can answer these questions then you will understand which service branch need helicopters more.

There are templates we can copy and adapt for our use. What I mean here is that, other armies around the world keep combat helicopters while air force concern themselves with jets and bombers.

You talked about fuel and maintenance, Sadiq Abubakar bla bla bla. I can only laugh at those yapping. Look if any agency keep such asset, they have got budgetary provisions for serving and maintenance of such asset. You can't tell me to start clapping because they put fuel in an aircraft. Money was provided for such.

When I talked about transferring asset to the army, officers that will man them can as well be seconded to the army. No big deal. Check for yourself to see; the first chief of air staff in Nigeria was an army brigadier general from my town. He was seconded from the army to the air force in the 1960s. The federal government can still do that.

Point of correction: Gas turbine engines which helicopters are fitted with use Jet A1 (kerosene) NOT AvGas. It is my field that's why I know. I am talking about helicopters NOT other aircraft, so no need to mention AvGas.

I'm also speaking from a position of knowledge of the air force, and how they work, I've even flown with them in a mission in 2014 (Augusta 109) when GEJ went to commission the then newly built stadium.
First of all the main role of the air force is to protect the territorial integrity of the nation by air.
This includes routine air interdiction operations/close air support, that is why you have a joint task force command that comprises of both the Army, Airforce and navy formerly headed by Man. Gen Irabor.
We are not America that has the huge resources to equip it's Army with lots of combat helicopters, yes it's a good idea for the army to have an aviation unit but it is laughable to suggest the air force hand over its entire rotor wing fleet to the army, it's never done anywhere in the world, it's a recipe for disaster.
Even at present the best army can do is to train pilots in transport helicopters for troop insertion and evacuation, that's why they went for the gazelle helicopters instead of the Mi's, Agustas, Chinooks etc that are primarily built for offensive operations.
For you to think NAF is not doing enough only shows you ain't an insider, last year 2 Naf pilots (Kalto Silks and Jacob Perowei) whom I know personally when they where students of IHFS Enugu during my internship in the flight school , lost their lives in one of the close air support missions in the northeast. In 2014, we lost two pilots and the entire crew while they where returning from an air interdiction operation I was also in the briefing room with some pilots when the signal came in.
Again you said if any agency keep such assets they've budgetary provisions for such. My brother you made laugh so hard, do you know that customs have an aviation wing which is now moribund, do you think if they have budgetary allocations for such that unit will go extinct? It's one thing to submit budget and another to get funds, let me burst your bubble as of now we don't have more than two operational Mi35 attack helicopters, one was deployed to Zamfara because of banditry there, while the other is in the tactical air support group Makurdi. You think the NAF have all the money they need and some of the helicopters and fixed wings are grounded.
As for moving personnel from one service to another, it is no longer possible it happened in the 60's because the NAF/NN where newly setup and highly under manned that's why some NA officers where drafted to the NAF. It can't happen now, not even in NDA.
Can you mention any officer that have crossed service in this modern day.

You don't just wake-up one day and enter an aircraft to start flying any mission, many factors have to be put into consideration, serviceability of platforms and weather being the key factors, the northeast is notorious for its harsh weather(hazy during harmattan) and during raining seasons you can't just fly in bad weather even if you're instrument rated, you will just go and kill yourself or bomb your own troops. Brown out/loss of rotor is one thing every pilot dread, and putting into cognizance the kind of ammunition Bokoharam possess it's foolhardy to regularly fly on choppers into hotzones because they will be easily shot down by AA or RPG(Which have a range of about 800m) that's why the air force uses high performance jet to out do the enemies.
Those in the military are extremely smart o!! you can't use the lens of a civilian to make bogous suggestions that are not implementable/workable.

*modified*
when army start flying helicopters regularly into war zones na everyday una go dey hear for news say Bokoharam they shoot down aircraft.
It happened to the almighty US in Somalia where ragtag militias where just bringing down black hawks with reckless abandon, talkmore of Nigeria

Meanwhile, when is the list coming out?

The disaster that happened in an IDP camp in Bama is still fresh in people's memory where the air force in one of its close air support mission bombed innocent civilians because the pilot was given wrong coordinates by troops on ground.
The then theatre commander Maj.Gen Irabor took responsibility for the disaster, na the same army go come dey usurp air force role. Every arm of service is a king/Expert in their field, the airforce now have regiments unit(similar to infantry) that doesn't mean they will takeover the role of the army, it's all for support. Army still remains the king when it comes to land based warfare same for Navy on water and airforce in the air.

ugo4u:
You don't just wake-up one day and enter an aircraft to start flying any mission, many factors have to be put into consideration, serviceability of platforms and weather being the key factors, the northeast is notorious for its harsh weather(hazy during harmattan) and during raining seasons you can't just fly in bad weather even if you're instrument rated, you will just go and kill yourself or bomb your own troops. Brown out/loss of rotor is one thing every pilot dread, and putting into cognizance the kind of ammunition Bokoharam possess it's foolhardy to regularly fly on choppers into hotzones because they will be easily shot down by AA or RPG(Which have a range of about 800m) that's why the air force uses high performance jet to out do the enemies.
Those in the military are extremely smart o!! you can't use the lens of a civilian to make bogous suggestions that are not implementable/workable.

*modified*
when army start flying helicopters regularly into war zones na everyday una go dey hear for news say Bokoharam they shoot down aircraft.
It happened to the almighty US in Somalia where ragtag militias where just bringing down black hawks with reckless abandon.

Apache can operate in all weather conditions.
Are you suggesting that you know better than the armies in around the world that maintain combat rotor crafts?

Are you suggesting that you now know better than the Nigerian Army high command that is asking federal government for combat rotor crafts?

https://basehitz.net/2019/10/11/boko-haram-is-not-a-formidable-force-we-can-defeat-them-in-15-minutes-army/

That link above is a Nigerian Major General talking about combat helicopters. Do you now understand the situation better than him?

Or are you just sharing the normal air force sentiment/fear of losing relevance?

Army is a highly potent force. And it should always remain so. They maintain marine assets, that doesn't mean they want to usurp the role of the Navy.

Air assets are highly essential for army operations, that doesn't mean they want to usurp the role of the air force.

We can't say because helicopters will be shoot down regularly so for that reason use of it should be minimal, did we refuse to roll out foot soldiers to the Front line because we loose men every day? But rather re strategize on how best to operate and reduce the casualty to the minimal. The thing is air support in this war is not encouraging.

Jafdoc:


Apache can operate in all weather conditions.
Are you suggesting that you know better than the armies in around the world that maintain combat rotor crafts?

Are you suggesting that you now know better than the Nigerian Army high command that is asking federal government for combat rotor crafts?

https://basehitz.net/2019/10/11/boko-haram-is-not-a-formidable-force-we-can-defeat-them-in-15-minutes-army/

That link above is a Nigerian Major General talking about combat helicopters. Do you now understand the situation better than him?

Or are you just sharing the normal air force sentiment/fear of losing relevance?

Jesus!! Apache for army . Even the airforce on behalf of FG have being trying to get that machine since 2012, America refused to sell to us citing the "Leahy's law" even a third party country won't sell it to you, common Chinook was turned down by the Americans even when the Israelis where willing to sell their's to us they blocked it. To be frank to you we ain't getting no Apaches even in 10yrs time talkmore of the army. The much talked about Tucano aircraft that will enter service in 2020 was made possible by Donald Trump because of his businessman mentality and also the will to support us compared to the Obama's administration.
The army don't need attack helicopters for now, what they need is transport helicopters, flying close support mission is very very dangerous because helicopter fly at lower altitudes compared to fix wings and are slower than jets engines making them vulnerable to enemy fire, that's where the expertise of the air force comes into play, they train regularly for such missions.

As for the General, it is one thing for him to make a wish and another for it to be granted, that's why I initially said you people should hold politicians responsible, a common house of representatives member is somewhat powerful than a General.

Kaeboy:
We can't say because helicopters will be shoot down regularly so for that reason use of it should be minimal, did we refuse to roll out foot soldiers to the Front line because we loose men every day? But rather re strategize on how best to operate and reduce the casualty to the minimal. The thing is air support in this war is not encouraging.

Is it not when you have serviceable helicopter you will fly missions? Aircrafts are not vehicles that you can manage, vehicles can park up on the way and you will use your leg to complete your mission or japaaa, but for aircraft even a loose nut can send you crashing and chances of you surviving an aircraft loaded with weapons and fuel is less than 10%.
Again, hold your politicians accountable for their actions/inactions.

Ugo4u and jafdoc it's okay na.

You both are right.


Na list be koko now.
Ugo4u, what's the signal??

KODACK:
Ugo4u and jafdoc it's okay na.
You both are right.

Na list be koko now. Ugo4u, what's the signal??

We no dey fight na, just sharing our opinions.

ugo4u:

We no dey fight na, just sharing our opinions.

But no body gree win or lose...... Las Las na list news we want hear from you. Shikena

ugo4u:

Jesus!! Apache for army . Even the airforce on behalf of FG have being trying to get that machine since 2012, America refused to sell to us citing the "Leahy's law" even a third party country won't sell it to you, common Chinook was turned down by the Americans even when the Israelis where willing to sell their's to us they blocked it. To be frank to you we ain't getting no Apaches even in 10yrs time talkmore of the army. The much talked about Tucano aircraft that will enter service in 2020 was made possible by Donald Trump because of his businessman mentality and also the will to support us compared to the Obama's administration.
The army don't need attack helicopters for now, what they need is transport helicopters, flying close support mission is very very dangerous because helicopter fly at lower altitudes compared to fix wings and are slower than jets engines making them vulnerable to enemy fire, that's where the expertise of the air force comes into play, they train regularly for such missions.

As for the General, it is one thing for him to make a wish and another for it to be granted, that's why I initially said you people should hold politicians responsible, a common house of representatives member is somewhat powerful than a General.

Are you aware that the Directorate of Army Aviation already exist?

That they have already ordered for aircraft to be delivered?

It is your kind of thinking that is responsible for the backwardness in Nigeria. If other armies own helicopters then why can't we own helicopters? Air assets are highly essential for army operations. Let them own, they will learn, they will perform.

If America is not giving us Apache now, that doesn't mean we can't get them in the near future. Beside, they are Russian made rotor crafts than can perform as much as Apache

Make I check list for una jor...

How you take see the list? E make sense, abi?

jameh48:
Make I check list for una jor...

oya ogbeni how o

Jafdoc:


Are you aware that the Directorate of Army Aviation already exist?

That they have already ordered for aircraft to be delivered?

It your kind of thinking that is responsible for the backwardness in Nigeria. If other armies own helicopters then why can't we own helicopters?

If America is not giving us Apache now, that doesn't mean we can't get them in the near future. Beside, they are Russian made rotor crafts than can perform as much as Apache

When I talk about the air force I speak from a position of strength I'm not being boastful I have 1st class information about them, even the army aviation unit you're talking about I know when it was setup, and their first set of pilots where students at International Helicopter flying school emene Enugu before I left.
The choppers army ordered are gazelle helos and other light platform for troops and light attack. Go and Search for information about gazelle helicopters. I won't be surprised sef if they even use the helicopters for VIP transport. Maintaining an air fleet is extremely expensive, and training personnel takes an average of 3 to 4 years for an (accelerated program). Is it the army that is struggling to maintain its battle tanks and other ground equipments because of funds that will suddenly start maintaing sophisticated air machines, even the airforce was forced to look inwards , it was Innoson that they had to collabo with to design fighter jets brakes and refit some of their moribund machines.
Everything boils down to money, we have never spent upto $2bn solely for military purchase at any point in our history, yet you want the military to perform magic.
The US you're mentioning spent over $500bn alone on military spendings alone in 2018 fiscal year, their army have more aircraft than the Nigerian airforce entirely. So don't even compare them with Nigeria.
As for going to eastern Europe (Russia, Ukraine etc) to source for helicopters, do you have the budget to also fly in their technicians to maintain their equipments which in itself is too expensive and difficult to procure parts.
The issues are complex, far more than you'll understand untill you're inside.
That's why I say hold your elected officials to account, you don't procure military hardware on credit.

Dammysmart:
oya ogbeni how o

I bin won break the transmission of Oga Ugo4u, and jafdoc...Oya o, unto list matter.

What can I say...........

You guys would make good officers.......
I was just wondering how knowledgeable and current you guys are but much more your professionalism and maturity in response without insults....Gentlemen officers.....All the way.....
victory is from God alone

Salute......ugo4u and jafdoc

Ugo4u, and jafdoc...You guys are too much...I hope others on this thread are learning...Very knowledgeable...Again, show how knowledgeable you are on when the list will be out.