| *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 2:37am On Oct 18, 2019 |
God's existence grounds the realness of objective morality, equality of man and woman, liberty or freedom of man, laws of mathematics, moral responsibility which is the corollary of being free, rights, rationality, the laws of logic, the uniqueness of man, etc Without God, equality, liberty, rights, mathematics, moral responsibility etc are just useful fictions created by man to understand the world and cooperate effectively. Meaning, they dont exist in actuality or reality - if there is no God, they cannot be objectively real. Instead, they only exist in our inter-subjective reality: if we believe they exist, they become "real", if we dont, then they stop existing. Just as God, which atheists claim is not real, the aforementioned are just objects of fiction invented by man! Ridiculous, right? Many atheists dont know or realize this. So, let's explore the reality of the non-existence of God and realize the folly in its fullness. EQUALITY : If there is no God that grounds the ontological equality( our souls by nature makes us equal ) of man and woman - the soul of man and woman are equal before God - how can we say that that we are equal? What makes us equal? In what way are we equal? Equality, if there is no God, becomes a fictional creation of man to enable a functional society. The realness of equality only exists in our inter-subjective reality: if we stop believing that man and women are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities, then it fails to exist. In the same vein, we can also create fictions like we are innately unequal that would enable a hierarchy -based society, just as ancient societies did. At this point, you can see clearly that there is no reason to denigrate patriarchy or believe that women deserve equal rights as men. Or that slavery is not okay. Slaves were once believed to have an inherent "slavish-nature". Racists can choose to believe the inequality of races or the inherent superiority of particular races to others. People who believe men are superior can point to patriarchal societies as evidence that women are inferior to men. In the future, people would be able to genetically enhance themselves to have superior physical & mental qualities, in what way would anyone prove that they are equal to unenhanced, average people? FREEDOM AND LIBERTY, MORAL RESPONSIBILITY : If there is no God that created us and gave us souls to be free and have liberty, then we are slaves to the laws of nature, which are responsible for all that exists, according to naturalists. What makes us free? Our souls, the immaterial part of us created by God which give us the ability to make choices. Souls are not bound by the laws of nature, because they are not elements of the natural world. If you deny the existence of souls created by God and insist we are wholly physical beings, then our choices are inevitably determined by the laws of nature. That means there is no moral responsibility. There is no moral responsibility without freewill. I can't be held responsible or accountable for my actions since there were not freely committed. The laws of nature should be culpable for any action performed by all purely physical beings. The actions of man would be no different from those of the hurricane or storm or animals. Eg. Stalin and Hitler ordered the killings of millions of people and the destruction of properties, if these were not free actions, then they are no different from those of natural disasters like typhoons and hurricanes since they all operate under the laws of nature. So clearly, you being responsible for your moral actions is some illusion or fiction that you "chose" or made to believe.  . There won't be rewards and punishments which are necessary for a functional society. Why should I be punished or rewarded for what the laws of nature did? RATIONALITY : Same can be said about rationality. We are not freely thinking since we have no freedom or will as subjects of the laws of nature. How can I tell if what I believe is indeed true if I cannot freely figure them out myself? How can I know what's true? If I'm not free to think, then I'm not thinking. My thoughts are just whatever the laws of nature make me think. That is scary is, right? That is what you get when you deny God's existence. You are not rational in essence, you are simply outputting inputs given to you by the laws of nature. So indeed, we are just under the illusion of being rational. Rationality or reason is not real, it is just some fiction we choose the belief in. This reality would also undermine logical conclusions. MATHEMATICAL LAWS : Does 1+1 really equal 2? Is it an objective and necessary truth that 2+1 equals 3? Are numbers and the laws of mathematics just useful fictions invented by man to understand the world? Isn't it crazy to deny the realness of mathematics and it's applicability in the physical world? How can objective reality be represented by something subjectively defined by man? If there is no God whose existence grounds the realness of mathematics, then they are just objects of fictions, mere abstractions, that dont exist outside the human mind. Philosophers like Plato and St Augustine argued that the mathematical truths are objective, unchanging and such cannot be products of a changing and temporary world - this means they are part of an immutable or unchanging, immaterial reality which is beyond the physical world, thus transcendent. And this proves the existence of a transcendent immaterial mind who is responsible for this transcendent reality of mathematics. The physical reality, as Plato argued, is dependent on a transcendent reality. That's why we can use mathematics - objects of a transcendent reality - to understand the physical world UNIQUENESS OF MAN : Do you believe you are significant and different from animals, thus unique and special? Who told you that? Oh, that's just some fictional BS you've been told and made to believe. Do you realize that being subjects to the laws of nature, you are not free, you are not rational, you are a purely physical being, and your actions are already determined by the laws of nature? You are not different from other components of nature whose existence and functionality wholly depend on the laws of nature. You evolved from lower life forms, just as every other animal; sentient just as many other animals. You are purely physical and subject to the laws of nature, just like every other natural thing! RIGHTS : Ugh! Don't tell me you actually think you have rights. That's just some made-up shit invented by man that grants us access to natural resources or any kind of resources. And guess who believe that too? Atheists! Remember, in the book of Genesis, God told Adam, the representative of mankind, that he has dominion over whatever that exists on earth: He's been given rights. But if there is no God, on what basis do we have rights?? None, if you "think" really hard about that. Because it's all fictional. OBJECTIVE MORALITY : Do you believe that everyone should agree that it is good to love one another, to be fair, just and kind to one another, to not kill, oppress the poor etc. Now, imagine if we stopped believing that. We can go ahead to murder, hate, oppress and be unjust to another and choose to see it as a good thing. History is replete which such atrocious actions perpetrated by man. But if right or wrong is all fictional, subjective or inter-subjective, based on the whims of man, no objective standard since only God's nature provides that, then we can do all sorts of things without condemnation, because all things are permitted if there is no God. The Nazis can conclude that their actions are right and the Holocaust was morally "good", Rwanda genocide can be "justified", because without a transcendent moral authority, who makes the rules and why do you think anyone is morally obligated to follow them? So if there is no God, man is simply under the illusion that there are objectively good or bad things, and we can condemn or praise people for doing " good " or "bad" things. CONCLUSION: So that's it, guys! Atheists assert that God is an object of fiction made up by man to understand and navigate the natural world, without understanding the implications: there is no equality, liberty, rights, mathematical laws, moral responsibility, rationality, objective morality etc. They are objects of fiction, just like God, invented by man to make sense of the world he lives in. You do realize they believe they are smart because they dont believe a particular object of fiction, God, while believing other fictions? Lol 9 Likes 5 Shares 
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| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by malvisguy212: 7:07am On Oct 18, 2019 |
welcome back bro. good to see you again. watch how atheists avoid this thread like plague because it exposed their sinful desire. 6 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by MrPresident1: 8:52am On Oct 18, 2019 |
No man is without excuse
Romans 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
What is to be known of God is manifest in them, it is inherent in them, and God has also shown it to them. But they are corrupt people who deny their very essence.
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
God is good, no man has any motivation to do good except in God. So because they have refused to acknowledge God, they have become animals filled to the brim with base propensities
Romans 1:29-31
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:01am On Oct 18, 2019 |
malvisguy212:
welcome back bro. good to see you again. watch how atheists avoid this thread like plague because it exposed their sinful desire. Thanks bro. Exactly! I'm not surprised none of them has said anything. I will expose more of the folly of rejecting God's existence soon. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:04am On Oct 18, 2019 |
MrPresident1:
No man is without excuse
Romans 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
What is to be known of God is manifest in them, it is inherent in them, and God has also shown it to them. But they are corrupt people who deny their very essence.
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
God is good, no man has any motivation to do good except in God. So because they have refused to acknowledge God, they have become animals filled to the brim with base propensities
Romans 1:29-31
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Once again, as you've pointed out, the Bible has been proven to be correct. Rejecting God's existence puts us on the same level as animals and other purely physical beings like plants, the clouds, chairs and my wardrobe. |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by MrPresident1: 10:58am On Oct 18, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
Thanks bro.
Exactly! I'm not surprised none of them has said anything. I will expose more of the folly of rejecting God's existence soon. I find it a bit odd to say 'God's existence' like God is external to us and needs validation from us. They reject God, they reject themselves. No such thing as 'reject God's existence' 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:06am On Oct 18, 2019 |
MrPresident1:
I find it a bit odd to say 'God's existence' like God is external to us and needs validation from us. They reject God, they themselves.No such thing as 'reject God's existence' I understand. In fact, God doesn't exist, God is. He imparts existence to all things . I just use it since it's the conventional way of expressing the denial of the reality of God. Thank you sir for pointing that out . 1 Like |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by MrPresident1: 2:19pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
I understand. In fact, God doesn't exist, God is. He imparts existence to all things . I just use it since it's the conventional way of expressing the denial of the reality of God. Thank you sir for pointing that out . You need to modify the title of the thread to reflect |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by malvisguy212: 2:49pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
Thanks bro.
Exactly! I'm not surprised none of them has said anything. I will expose more of the folly of rejecting God's existence soon. lol. just last week till yesterday the atheists on nairaland are on rampant ( dem just dey disturbed us ) all of a sudden they are no were to be found. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by orunto27: 3:02pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
Atheists are superstitious period. And they are scared of Witches. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by LordReed(m): 6:31pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
God's existence grounds the realness of objective morality, equality of man and woman, liberty or freedom of man, laws of mathematics, moral responsibility which is the corollary of being free, rights, rationality, the laws of logic, the uniqueness of man,
Without God, equality, liberty, rights, mathematics, moral responsibility etc are just useful fictions created by man to understand the world and cooperate effectively. Meaning, they dont exist in actuality or reality - if there is no God, they cannot be objectively real. Instead, they only exist in our inter-subjective reality: if we believe they exist, they become "real", if we dont, then they stop existing. Just as God, which atheists claim is not real, the aforementioned are just objects of fiction invented by man! Ridiculous, right? Many atheists dont know or realize this. So, let's explore the reality of the non-existence of God and realize the folly in its fullness.
EQUALITY : If there is no God that grounds the ontological equality( our souls by nature makes us equal ) of man and woman - the soul of man and woman are equal before God - how can we say that that we are equal? What makes us equal? In what way are we equal? Equality, if there is no God, becomes a fictional creation of man to enable a functional society. The realness of equality only exists in our inter-subjective reality: if we stop believing that man and women are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities, then it fails to exist. In the same vein, we can also create fictions like we are innately unequal that would enable a hierarchy -based society, just as ancient societies did. At this point, you can see clearly that there is no reason to denigrate patriarchy or believe that women deserve equal rights as men. Or that slavery is not okay. Slaves were once believed to have an inherent "slavish-nature". Racists can choose to believe the inequality of races or the inherent superiority of particular races to others. People who believe men are superior can point to patriarchal societies as evidence that women are inferior to men. In the future, people would be able to genetically enhance themselves to have superior physical & mental qualities, in what way would anyone prove that they are equal to unenhanced, average people?
FREEDOM AND LIBERTY, MORAL RESPONSIBILITY : If there is no God that created us and gave us souls to be free and have liberty, then we are slaves to the laws of nature, which are responsible for all that exists, according to naturalists. What makes us free? Our souls, the immaterial part of us created by God which give us the ability to make choices. Souls are not bound by the laws of nature, because they are not elements of the natural world. If you deny the existence of souls created by God and insist we are wholly physical beings, then our choices are inevitably determined by the laws of nature. That means there is no moral responsibility. There is no moral responsibility without freewill. I can't be held responsible or accountable for my actions since there were not freely committed. The laws of nature should be culpable for any action performed by all purely physical beings. The actions of man would be no different from those of the hurricane or storm or animals. Eg. Stalin and Hitler ordered the killings of millions of people and the destruction of properties, if these were not free actions, then they are no different from those of natural disasters like typhoons and hurricanes since they all operate under the laws of nature. So clearly, you being responsible for your moral actions is some illusion or fiction that you "chose" or made to believe. . There won't be rewards and punishments which are necessary for a functional society. Why should I be punished or rewarded for what the laws of nature did?
RATIONALITY : Same can be said about rationality. We are not freely thinking since we have no freedom or will as subjects of the laws of nature. How can I tell if what I believe is indeed true if I cannot freely figure them out myself? How can I know what's true? If I'm not free to think, then I'm not thinking. My thoughts are just whatever the laws of nature make me think. That is scary is, right? That is what you get when you deny God's existence. You are not rational in essence, you are simply outputting inputs given to you by the laws of nature. So indeed, we are just under the illusion of being rational. Rationality or reason is not real, it is just some fiction we choose the belief in. This reality would also undermine logical conclusions.
MATHEMATICAL LAWS : Does 1+1 really equal 2? Is it an objective and necessary truth that 2+1 equals 3? Are numbers and the laws of mathematics just useful fictions invented by man to understand the world? Isn't it crazy to deny the realness of mathematics and it's applicability in the physical world? How can objective reality be represented by something subjectively defined by man? If there is no God whose existence grounds the realness of mathematics, then they are just objects of fictions, mere abstractions, that dont exist outside the human mind. Philosophers like Plato and St Augustine argued that the mathematical truths are objective, unchanging and such cannot be products of a changing and temporary world - this means they are part of an immutable or unchanging, immaterial reality which is beyond the physical world, thus transcendent. And this proves the existence of a transcendent immaterial mind who is responsible for this transcendent reality of mathematics. The physical reality, as Plato argued, is dependent on a transcendent reality. That's why we can use mathematics - objects of a transcendent reality - to understand the physical world
UNIQUENESS OF MAN : Do you believe you are significant and different from animals, thus unique and special? Who told you that? Oh, that's just some fictional BS you've been told and made to believe. Do you realize that being subjects to the laws of nature, you are not free, you are not rational, you are a purely physical being, and your actions are already determined by the laws of nature? You are not different from other components of nature whose existence and functionality wholly depend on the laws of nature. You evolved from lower life forms, just as every other animal; sentient just as many other animals. You are purely physical and subject to the laws of nature, just like every other natural thing!
RIGHTS : Ugh! Don't tell me you actually think you have rights. That's just some made-up shit invented by man that grants us access to natural resources or any kind of resources. And guess who believe that too? Atheists! Remember, in the book of Genesis, God told Adam, the representative of mankind, that he has dominion over whatever that exists on earth: He's been given rights. But if there is no God, on what basis do we have rights?? None, if you "think" really hard about that. Because it's all fictional.
OBJECTIVE MORALITY : Do you believe that everyone should agree that it is good to love one another, to be fair, just and kind to one another, to not kill, oppress the poor etc. Now, imagine if we stopped believing that. We can go ahead to murder, hate, oppress and be unjust to another and choose to see it as a good thing. History is replete which such atrocious actions perpetrated by man. But if right or wrong is all fictional, subjective or inter-subjective, based on the whims of man, no objective standard since only God's nature provides that, then we can do all sorts of things without condemnation, because all things are permitted if there is no God. The Nazis can conclude that their actions are right and the Holocaust was morally "good", Rwanda genocide can be "justified", because without a transcendent moral authority, who makes the rules and why do you think anyone is morally obligated to follow them? So if there is no God, man is simply under the illusion that there are objectively good or bad things, and we can condemn or praise people for doing " good " or "bad" things.
CONCLUSION: So that's it, guys! Atheists assert that God is an object of fiction made up by man to understand and navigate the natural world, without understanding the implications: there is no equality, liberty, rights, mathematical laws, moral responsibility, rationality, objective morality etc. They are objects of fiction, just like God, invented by man to make sense of the world he lives in. You do realize they believe they are smart because they dont believe a particular object of fiction, God while believing other fictions? Lol LoL! And indeed they are fictions so? Fictions can be powerful and captivating, Avengers: End Game raked in 2.79billion usd, shows people love fiction and it can have a big place in their hearts. The question remains so what? Besides some of these fictions are based on observed facts. Everybody feels the pain of loss and death so we invent a fiction to stop people from spreading this pain by inflicting loss and death, a fiction we call justice. What of it? 5 Likes |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by LordReed(m): 6:31pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
orunto27:
Atheists are superstitious period. And they are scared of Witches. In your dreams. 1 Like |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 8:02pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
MrPresident1:
You need to modify the title of the thread to reflect Suggestions? |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 8:05pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
malvisguy212:
lol. just last week till yesterday the atheists on nairaland are on rampant ( dem just dey disturbed us ) all of a sudden they are no were to be found. Very likely that they didn't understand the topic. I tried my best to keep it simple sha . |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by TVSA: 8:20pm On Oct 18, 2019 |
orunto27:
Atheists are superstitious period. And they are scared of Witches.  |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by johnydon22(m): 7:19am On Oct 19, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
God's existence grounds the realness of objective morality, equality of man and woman, liberty or freedom of man, laws of mathematics, moral responsibility which is the corollary of being free, rights, rationality, the laws of logic, the uniqueness of man, Lol. That's interesting.
Without God, equality, liberty, rights, mathematics, moral responsibility etc are just useful fictions created by man to understand the world and cooperate effectively.
And that's exactly what they are. Imaginary order, products of man to keep his social fabric in order. Anyone who states otherwise is fooling himself. I don't understand this post all. You list out imaginary orders (social constructs) as imaginary things atheist believe, of course they are fictional, myths, the problem is, no one stated otherwise. Everyone knows every element of social order is invented. Humans do not have inherent social engineering like ants or termites, so imaginary orders such as: Government Morality Laws Religion Corporations Language Money Stock Etc Help bypass this and give humans an almost unnatural capability to create large complex social structures.
Meaning, they dont exist in actuality or reality -
Everyone agrees that Imaginary orders only exist because humans believe it. If everyone stops believing the value of money (the paper) it simply becomes a worthless piece of paper.
if there is no God, they cannot be objectively real.
Even with a God in place, imaginary orders won't be anymore realer than they already are. They'd still remain imaginary. Except maybe for morality. An argument for another day.
Instead, they only exist in our inter-subjective reality: if we believe they exist, they become "real", if we dont, then they stop existing.
Correct. That's why they are Imaginary orders. Social myths. Man's abstract inventions to keep the social norms.
Just as God, which atheists claim is not real, the aforementioned are just objects of fiction invented by man! Ridiculous, right?
Imaginary orders are a belief, nobody claims they are not. You on the other hand assert God isn't. See the difference? You are arguing on this based on the premise that they aren't real, we already know that. I have already explained the idea of social myths, imaginary orders countless times to other atheists on this board. No one is actually arguing this.
Many atheists dont know or realize this.
Quite agreeable. More correctly, many on this board don't grasp the concept of Imaginary orders.
So, let's explore the reality of the non-existence of God and realize the folly in its fullness.
Lol.
EQUALITY : If there is no God that grounds the ontological equality( our souls by nature makes us equal ) of man and woman - the soul of man and woman are equal before God - how can we say that that we are equal? What makes us equal? In what way are we equal? Equality, if there is no God, becomes a fictional creation of man to enable a functional society. The realness of equality only exists in our inter-subjective reality: if we stop believing that man and women are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities, then it fails to exist. In the same vein, we can also create fictions like we are innately unequal that would enable a hierarchy -based society, just as ancient societies did. At this point, you can see clearly that there is no reason to denigrate patriarchy or believe that women deserve equal rights as men. Or that slavery is not okay. Slaves were once believed to have an inherent "slavish-nature". Racists can choose to believe the inequality of races or the inherent superiority of particular races to others. People who believe men are superior can point to patriarchal societies as evidence that women are inferior to men. In the future, people would be able to genetically enhance themselves to have superior physical & mental qualities, in what way would anyone prove that they are equal to unenhanced, average people?
Equality is a myth, an imaginary order, a human belief, you can even say that objective reality is quite the opposite. No two humans are ever equal, one must be taller, one must be stronger, faster, fatter and so it goes. Equality is a concept that only work as a social term. Since we all live together under one social umbrella, why not we assume we are all equals. That's why it is an imaginary order. A myth, a belief. So, yes. Equality isn't objective reality but no one stated otherwise.
FREEDOM AND LIBERTY, MORAL RESPONSIBILITY : If there is no God that created us and gave us souls to be free and have liberty, then we are slaves to the laws of nature,
We are actually subject to natural laws. We only bypass quite a few.
which are responsible for all that exists, according to naturalists. What makes us free? Our souls, the immaterial part of us created by God which give us the ability to make choices. Souls are not bound by the laws of nature, because they are not elements of the natural world. If you deny the existence of souls created by God and insist we are wholly physical beings, then our choices are inevitably determined by the laws of nature. That means there is no moral responsibility. There is no moral responsibility without freewill. I can't be held responsible or accountable for my actions since there were not freely committed. The laws of nature should be culpable for any action performed by all purely physical beings. The actions of man would be no different from those of the hurricane or storm or animals. Eg. Stalin and Hitler ordered the killings of millions of people and the destruction of properties, if these were not free actions, then they are no different from those of natural disasters like typhoons and hurricanes since they all operate under the laws of nature. So clearly, you being responsible for your moral actions is some illusion or fiction that you "chose" or made to believe. . There won't be rewards and punishments which are necessary for a functional society. Why should I be punished or rewarded for what the laws of nature did?
Human society isn't natural, it is also a myth, an imaginary order. Humans lack the genetical codes to inherently orchestrate a social community like ants, termites. Ants and termite have well organized societies, these societies come as genetically predetermines in them, they are not doing it because they have to, they do it because they can't do otherwise. Humans on the other have strong affinity to direct family, which break up the more it goes. So, human society isn't natural, it was constructed by the help of social myths such as morality, ethnicity, tribe and social laws. A Christian from Nigeria will automatically have a form of trust, a sense of fellowship with another Christian he met in Rome even they have never met in their lives. Because both believe in the same imaginary order (organization/institution) Christianity. A soldier would die alongside another soldier he never met defending a country. The only thing they have in common is they believe in the imaginary order which is - Country.
RATIONALITY : Same can be said about rationality. We are not freely thinking since we have no freedom or will as subjects of the laws of nature. How can I tell if what I believe is indeed true if I cannot freely figure them out myself? How can I know what's true? If I'm not free to think, then I'm not thinking. My thoughts are just whatever the laws of nature make me think. That is scary is, right? That is what you get when you deny God's existence. You are not rational in essence, you are simply outputting inputs given to you by the laws of nature. So indeed, we are just under the illusion of being rational. Rationality or reason is not real, it is just some fiction we choose the belief in. This reality would also undermine logical conclusions.
Not too long ago, humans believed the sun went around the earth, in fact, some still do. When you wake up, you see the sun move from the east, journey across ths sky, all the way to the west, in all of this, earth seems stationary. It is logical and rational to conclude based on this observation that sun moves, earth doesn't. Logical or Rational doesn't mean true, it means premise 1 follows with premise 2 and the conclusion follows both premises. So, again, You are correct. No one would claim Rationality or logic means something is true unless that person is naive.
MATHEMATICAL LAWS : Does 1+1 really equal 2? Is it an objective and necessary truth that 2+1 equals 3? Are numbers and the laws of mathematics just useful fictions invented by man to understand the world? Isn't it crazy to deny the realness of mathematics and it's applicability in the physical world? How can objective reality be represented by something subjectively defined by man? If there is no God whose existence grounds the realness of mathematics, then they are just objects of fictions, mere abstractions, that dont exist outside the human mind. Philosophers like Plato and St Augustine argued that the mathematical truths are objective, unchanging and such cannot be products of a changing and temporary world - this means they are part of an immutable or unchanging, immaterial reality which is beyond the physical world, thus transcendent. And this proves the existence of a transcendent immaterial mind who is responsible for this transcendent reality of mathematics. The physical reality, as Plato argued, is dependent on a transcendent reality. That's why we can use mathematics - objects of a transcendent reality - to understand the physical world
Mathematical figures is a language and like all languages are invented by humans. The word "Ocean" is a human invention that describes that which exists. The word "Human" describes that which exists. The substance is a constant, the language is abstract. Change the word, the substance remains the same. Mathematical language describes observable physical patterns and qualities like every other form of language, but yes, the language in itself is a human invention.
UNIQUENESS OF MAN : Do you believe you are significant and different from animals, thus unique and special? Who told you that? Oh, that's just some fictional BS you've been told and made to believe.
I'm not sure someone who is an evolutionalist ever claims to not be an animal like other animals. In fact, the major bone of contention between evolutionists and opposing school of thoughts is that evolution reduces man to a humble creature like every other beast in the world.
Do you realize that being subjects to the laws of nature, you are not free, you are not rational, you are a purely physical being, and your actions are already determined by the laws of nature? You are not different from other components of nature whose existence and functionality wholly depend on the laws of nature. You evolved from lower life forms, just as every other animal; sentient just as many other animals. You are purely physical and subject to the laws of nature, just like every other natural thing!
I believe you are arguing over an argument atheists didn't make. Man is special is mostly a theistic belief not atheistic. Though man can be quite chauvinistic about himself to think himself special amongst all animals, this value is a myth as you rightly pointed out. It is a belief.
RIGHTS : Ugh! Don't tell me you actually think you have rights. That's just some made-up shit invented by man that grants us access to natural resources or any kind of resources. And guess who believe that too? Atheists! Remember, in the book of Genesis, God told Adam, the representative of mankind, that he has dominion over whatever that exists on earth: He's been given rights. But if there is no God, on what basis do we have rights?? None, if you "think" really hard about that. Because it's all fictional.
Again, true, Rights are social myths, imaginary order, there is no such thing, it only exists within a social structure which also is in itself a myth. No one is arguing against that still.
OBJECTIVE MORALITY : Do you believe that everyone should agree that it is good to love one another, to be fair, just and kind to one another, to not kill, oppress the poor etc. Now, imagine if we stopped believing that. We can go ahead to murder, hate, oppress and be unjust to another and choose to see it as a good thing. History is replete which such atrocious actions perpetrated by man. But if right or wrong is all fictional, subjective or inter-subjective, based on the whims of man, no objective standard since only God's nature provides that, then we can do all sorts of things without condemnation, because all things are permitted if there is no God. The Nazis can conclude that their actions are right and the Holocaust was morally "good", Rwanda genocide can be "justified", because without a transcendent moral authority, who makes the rules and why do you think anyone is morally obligated to follow them? So if there is no God, man is simply under the illusion that there are objectively good or bad things, and we can condemn or praise people for doing " good " or "bad" things.
It is safe to say you are reaching now. How many times have you argued on this board with atheists that morality is subjective? Here is me explaining to Budaatum that morality has no facts, it is a myth, an imaginary order and the rationality of morality with God as a basis some months back : https://www.nairaland.com/5355840/atheist-irreligious-men-tell-truth/1#81224453https://www.nairaland.com/5355840/atheist-irreligious-men-tell-truth/1#81220666Atheists don't make the argument that morality is objective (some may), that you bring it up as part of the thing they believe is weird.
CONCLUSION: So that's it, guys! Atheists assert that God is an object of fiction made up by man to understand and navigate the natural world, without understanding the implications: there is no equality, liberty, rights, mathematical laws, moral responsibility, rationality, objective morality etc. They are objects of fiction, just like God, invented by man to make sense of the world he lives in. You do realize they believe they are smart because they dont believe a particular object of fiction, God, while believing other fictions? Lol
After going through this argument, I don't see a problem really. Social myths are social myths, a belief. No one can say otherwise unless they don't understand it. Social myths are imaginary orders, they are pure human inventions given meaning by belief. Anyone (Atheist or not) who asserts they exist in an objective sense is wrong. So, you are correct, these are imaginary things atheist also believe. 12 Likes 4 Shares |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by johnydon22(m): 7:51am On Oct 19, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
Very likely that they didn't understand the topic. I tried my best to keep it simple sha . Ebuka, I see your narcissism and ego are still there. Lol. It has been quite a long time for any of us to still remain the same. 7 Likes 4 Shares |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by MrPresident1: 9:08am On Oct 19, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
Suggestions? Last part should simply read "reject God' rather than "reject GOD's existence |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by Born2Freak(f): 9:17am On Oct 19, 2019 |
orunto27:
Atheists are superstitious period. And they are scared of Witches. Please, stop saying rubbish. If you know nothing about atheists, kindly either ask one or do research about them. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by johnydon22(m): 12:04pm On Oct 19, 2019 |
orunto27:
Atheists are superstitious period. And they are scared of Witches. That's okay. Atheism doesn't exactly preclude superstition. 3 Likes |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by budaatum: 12:13pm On Oct 19, 2019 |
johnydon22:
Ebuka, I see your narcissism and ego are still there.
Lol. It has been quite a long time for any of us to still remain the same. Even he has evolved, I hear, though not by much going by how little he's moved from my last discussion with him when he wanted to be the judge in his own challenge. You welcome Ebuka. Haven't seen your sidewatch around. Hope he and his girl are still good. |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by orunto27: 12:48pm On Oct 19, 2019 |
Born2Freak:
Please, stop saying rubbish. If you know nothing about atheists, kindly either ask one or do research about them. . Ok. |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by orunto27: 12:54pm On Oct 19, 2019 |
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| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:16am On Oct 20, 2019 |
johnydon22:
Ebuka, I see your narcissism and ego are still there.
Lol. It has been quite a long time for any of us to still remain the same. I have been called generous, humble, kind, stupid, brilliant, selfless, selfish etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about anything or anyone. And no, no one can remain the same. There will be always change.Hope you as good, bro. Long time o |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:21am On Oct 20, 2019 |
@johnnydon22
I'm glad you do accept that these are fictional, illusionary or imaginary orders in your worldview as an atheist. But I do have good logical arguments to demonstrate that indeed rationality, mathematics, equality, freewill, moral responsibility , objective morality etc are not fictional but objectively real in a theistic worldview 1 Like 1 Share |
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| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by Nobody: 10:26am On Oct 20, 2019 |
How is mathematics fictional?
If 1+1 is not 2, your mobile phone cannot work? 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by Nobody: 10:31am On Oct 20, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
God's existence grounds the realness of objective morality, equality of man and woman, liberty or freedom of man, laws of mathematics, moral responsibility which is the corollary of being free, rights, rationality, the laws of logic, the uniqueness of man, etc
Without God, equality, liberty, rights, mathematics, moral responsibility etc are just useful fictions created by man to understand the world and cooperate effectively. Meaning, they dont exist in actuality or reality - if there is no God, they cannot be objectively real. Instead, they only exist in our inter-subjective reality: if we believe they exist, they become "real", if we dont, then they stop existing. Just as God, which atheists claim is not real, the aforementioned are just objects of fiction invented by man! Ridiculous, right? Many atheists dont know or realize this. So, let's explore the reality of the non-existence of God and realize the folly in its fullness.
EQUALITY : If there is no God that grounds the ontological equality( our souls by nature makes us equal ) of man and woman - the soul of man and woman are equal before God - how can we say that that we are equal? What makes us equal? In what way are we equal? Equality, if there is no God, becomes a fictional creation of man to enable a functional society. The realness of equality only exists in our inter-subjective reality: if we stop believing that man and women are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities, then it fails to exist. In the same vein, we can also create fictions like we are innately unequal that would enable a hierarchy -based society, just as ancient societies did. At this point, you can see clearly that there is no reason to denigrate patriarchy or believe that women deserve equal rights as men. Or that slavery is not okay. Slaves were once believed to have an inherent "slavish-nature". Racists can choose to believe the inequality of races or the inherent superiority of particular races to others. People who believe men are superior can point to patriarchal societies as evidence that women are inferior to men. In the future, people would be able to genetically enhance themselves to have superior physical & mental qualities, in what way would anyone prove that they are equal to unenhanced, average people?
FREEDOM AND LIBERTY, MORAL RESPONSIBILITY : If there is no God that created us and gave us souls to be free and have liberty, then we are slaves to the laws of nature, which are responsible for all that exists, according to naturalists. What makes us free? Our souls, the immaterial part of us created by God which give us the ability to make choices. Souls are not bound by the laws of nature, because they are not elements of the natural world. If you deny the existence of souls created by God and insist we are wholly physical beings, then our choices are inevitably determined by the laws of nature. That means there is no moral responsibility. There is no moral responsibility without freewill. I can't be held responsible or accountable for my actions since there were not freely committed. The laws of nature should be culpable for any action performed by all purely physical beings. The actions of man would be no different from those of the hurricane or storm or animals. Eg. Stalin and Hitler ordered the killings of millions of people and the destruction of properties, if these were not free actions, then they are no different from those of natural disasters like typhoons and hurricanes since they all operate under the laws of nature. So clearly, you being responsible for your moral actions is some illusion or fiction that you "chose" or made to believe. . There won't be rewards and punishments which are necessary for a functional society. Why should I be punished or rewarded for what the laws of nature did?
RATIONALITY : Same can be said about rationality. We are not freely thinking since we have no freedom or will as subjects of the laws of nature. How can I tell if what I believe is indeed true if I cannot freely figure them out myself? How can I know what's true? If I'm not free to think, then I'm not thinking. My thoughts are just whatever the laws of nature make me think. That is scary is, right? That is what you get when you deny God's existence. You are not rational in essence, you are simply outputting inputs given to you by the laws of nature. So indeed, we are just under the illusion of being rational. Rationality or reason is not real, it is just some fiction we choose the belief in. This reality would also undermine logical conclusions.
MATHEMATICAL LAWS : Does 1+1 really equal 2? Is it an objective and necessary truth that 2+1 equals 3? Are numbers and the laws of mathematics just useful fictions invented by man to understand the world? Isn't it crazy to deny the realness of mathematics and it's applicability in the physical world? How can objective reality be represented by something subjectively defined by man? If there is no God whose existence grounds the realness of mathematics, then they are just objects of fictions, mere abstractions, that dont exist outside the human mind. Philosophers like Plato and St Augustine argued that the mathematical truths are objective, unchanging and such cannot be products of a changing and temporary world - this means they are part of an immutable or unchanging, immaterial reality which is beyond the physical world, thus transcendent. And this proves the existence of a transcendent immaterial mind who is responsible for this transcendent reality of mathematics. The physical reality, as Plato argued, is dependent on a transcendent reality. That's why we can use mathematics - objects of a transcendent reality - to understand the physical world
UNIQUENESS OF MAN : Do you believe you are significant and different from animals, thus unique and special? Who told you that? Oh, that's just some fictional BS you've been told and made to believe. Do you realize that being subjects to the laws of nature, you are not free, you are not rational, you are a purely physical being, and your actions are already determined by the laws of nature? You are not different from other components of nature whose existence and functionality wholly depend on the laws of nature. You evolved from lower life forms, just as every other animal; sentient just as many other animals. You are purely physical and subject to the laws of nature, just like every other natural thing!
RIGHTS : Ugh! Don't tell me you actually think you have rights. That's just some made-up shit invented by man that grants us access to natural resources or any kind of resources. And guess who believe that too? Atheists! Remember, in the book of Genesis, God told Adam, the representative of mankind, that he has dominion over whatever that exists on earth: He's been given rights. But if there is no God, on what basis do we have rights?? None, if you "think" really hard about that. Because it's all fictional.
OBJECTIVE MORALITY : Do you believe that everyone should agree that it is good to love one another, to be fair, just and kind to one another, to not kill, oppress the poor etc. Now, imagine if we stopped believing that. We can go ahead to murder, hate, oppress and be unjust to another and choose to see it as a good thing. History is replete which such atrocious actions perpetrated by man. But if right or wrong is all fictional, subjective or inter-subjective, based on the whims of man, no objective standard since only God's nature provides that, then we can do all sorts of things without condemnation, because all things are permitted if there is no God. The Nazis can conclude that their actions are right and the Holocaust was morally "good", Rwanda genocide can be "justified", because without a transcendent moral authority, who makes the rules and why do you think anyone is morally obligated to follow them? So if there is no God, man is simply under the illusion that there are objectively good or bad things, and we can condemn or praise people for doing " good " or "bad" things.
CONCLUSION: So that's it, guys! Atheists assert that God is an object of fiction made up by man to understand and navigate the natural world, without understanding the implications: there is no equality, liberty, rights, mathematical laws, moral responsibility, rationality, objective morality etc. They are objects of fiction, just like God, invented by man to make sense of the world he lives in. You do realize they believe they are smart because they dont believe a particular object of fiction, God, while believing other fictions? Lol if mathematical laws are fictional and your phone and the internet works on the basis of mathematical laws, is your mobile phone a fiction? 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:33am On Oct 20, 2019 |
nwabekeyi:
How is mathematics fictional?
If 1+1 is not 2, your mobile phone cannot work? Lol. Under a theistic worldview, it is. But under a naturalistic worldview which many atheists subscribe to, it is fictional, an invention of man. It is usually argued by theists that God grounds the realness of mathematics . |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by Nobody: 10:36am On Oct 20, 2019 |
KingEbukasBlog:
Lol. Under a theistic worldview, it is. But under a naturalistic worldview which many atheists subscribe to, it is fictional, an invention of man. It is usually argued by theists that God grounds the realness of mathematics . I think we have a misconception here, you are trying to say that every atheist believe that anything invented by man has to be a fiction? 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by Martinez39(m): 10:54am On Oct 20, 2019 |
Princess Ebuka is back. |
| Re: *Objects Of Fiction, Imaginary Things Atheists Believe In* Since They Reject God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:51am On Oct 20, 2019 |
nwabekeyi:
I think we have a misconception here, you are trying to say that every atheist believe that anything invented by man has to be a fiction? The point of this thread is to show that there are human mind-dependent realities atheists mistake for objective reality, considering their rejection of God. 1 Like 1 Share |
