I recently came across a post on Instablognaija where a PHD holder was forcefully imprisoned by his family for converting to Christianity.....

Link here - https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4Mn1F0no8m/?igshid=1cpc6susl7js3

What baffled me most was how Muslims and Islamic practitioners reacted to this incidence claiming that 'There is no compulsion in religion'

And then, this brings me to the question that 'Do Muslim truly understand Islam/Quran at all or they simply choose to downplay some of this controversial stance of Islam on certain matters in order to present the religion as a 'Religion of Peace'?

I will address the issue of apostasy in Islam with Quranic references...If any muslim on this forum want to deny any of my claims, please back it up with Quranic verse, not emotions


1. Quran 16:106 - He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

In this verse, Quran expressly instructed Muslims to chastise those who abandon Islam...

Now lets look at what the word ' Chastise' means
From contemporary english, Chastise means to punish, especially by beating.
e.g "the General cruelly chastised them with a whip"

2. But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90

Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.
 Quran 9:66

But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90


I will stop here without quoting many Hadith supporting my point

The 'No compulsion in religion' that muslims quote when issues like this are discussed actually talked about them not to force non-muslim to accept Islam
This was however was not demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) during his life time (That is another topic entirely)

N.B -I have created this topic to understand why muslim try to downplay such matters in Islam.
And for your information, I was born a christian and once converted to Islam and went back to being a Christian (A convinced one in the Lordship of Jesus) after understanding many things in Islam

Set the ball rolling

Do christains read the Bible:

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity . Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Romans : They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen
...32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Aren't these more grievous apostacy laws present
And yes we read the Quran,the punishment for apostacy is death! there is no confusion about that,thou the laws are meant to implemented in a Sharia state.

patani:
I recently came across a post on Instablognaija where a PHD holder was forcefully imprisoned by his family for converting to Christianity.....

Link here - https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4Mn1F0no8m/?igshid=1cpc6susl7js3

What baffled me most was how Muslims and Islamic practitioners reacted to this incidence claiming that 'There is no compulsion in religion'

And then, this brings me to the question that 'Do Muslim truly understand Islam/Quran at all or they simply choose to downplay some of this controversial stance of Islam on certain matters in order to present the religion as a 'Religion of Peace'?

I will address the issue of apostasy in Islam with Quranic references...If any muslim on this forum want to deny any of my claims, please back it up with Quranic verse, not emotions


1. Quran 16:106 - He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

In this verse, Quran expressly instructed Muslims to chastise those who abandon Islam...

Now lets look at what the word ' Chastise' means
From contemporary english, Chastise means to punish, especially by beating.
e.g "the General cruelly chastised them with a whip"

2. But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90

Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.
 Quran 9:66

But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90


I will stop here without quoting many Hadith supporting my point

The 'No compulsion in religion' that muslims quote when issues like this are discussed actually talked about them not to force non-muslim to accept Islam
This was however was not demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) during his life time (That is another topic entirely)

N.B -I have created this topic to understand why muslim try to downplay such matters in Islam.
And for your information, I was born a christian and once converted to Islam and went back to being a Christian (A convinced one in the Lordship of Jesus) after understanding many things in Islam

Which of those verses said anyone should punish Apostates.The verses you quoted only talks about punishment on the day of judgement

patani:
I recently came across a post on Instablognaija where a PHD holder was forcefully imprisoned by his family for converting to Christianity.....

Link here - https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4Mn1F0no8m/?igshid=1cpc6susl7js3

What baffled me most was how Muslims and Islamic practitioners reacted to this incidence claiming that 'There is no compulsion in religion'

And then, this brings me to the question that 'Do Muslim truly understand Islam/Quran at all or they simply choose to downplay some of this controversial stance of Islam on certain matters in order to present the religion as a 'Religion of Peace'?

I will address the issue of apostasy in Islam with Quranic references...If any muslim on this forum want to deny any of my claims, please back it up with Quranic verse, not emotions


1. Quran 16:106 - He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

In this verse, Quran expressly instructed Muslims to chastise those who abandon Islam...

Now lets look at what the word ' Chastise' means
From contemporary english, Chastise means to punish, especially by beating.
e.g "the General cruelly chastised them with a whip"

2. But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90

Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.
 Quran 9:66

But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90


I will stop here without quoting many Hadith supporting my point

The 'No compulsion in religion' that muslims quote when issues like this are discussed actually talked about them not to force non-muslim to accept Islam
This was however was not demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) during his life time (That is another topic entirely)

N.B -I have created this topic to understand why muslim try to downplay such matters in Islam.
And for your information, I was born a christian and once converted to Islam and went back to being a Christian (A convinced one in the Lordship of Jesus) after understanding many things in Islam

Will you decide the whole Muslim population coz of some Hausas in Nigeria,maybe the whole Christians should also be seen as KKK members and Tamil Tigers

patani:
I recently came across a post on Instablognaija where a PHD holder was forcefully imprisoned by his family for converting to Christianity.....

Link here - https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4Mn1F0no8m/?igshid=1cpc6susl7js3

What baffled me most was how Muslims and Islamic practitioners reacted to this incidence claiming that 'There is no compulsion in religion'

And then, this brings me to the question that 'Do Muslim truly understand Islam/Quran at all or they simply choose to downplay some of this controversial stance of Islam on certain matters in order to present the religion as a 'Religion of Peace'?

I will address the issue of apostasy in Islam with Quranic references...If any muslim on this forum want to deny any of my claims, please back it up with Quranic verse, not emotions


1. Quran 16:106 - He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

In this verse, Quran expressly instructed Muslims to chastise those who abandon Islam...

Now lets look at what the word ' Chastise' means
From contemporary english, Chastise means to punish, especially by beating.
e.g "the General cruelly chastised them with a whip"

2. But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90

Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.
 Quran 9:66

But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith, – never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

Quran 3:90


I will stop here without quoting many Hadith supporting my point

The 'No compulsion in religion' that muslims quote when issues like this are discussed actually talked about them not to force non-muslim to accept Islam
This was however was not demonstrated by Prophet Muhammad (SAW) during his life time (That is another topic entirely)

N.B -I have created this topic to understand why muslim try to downplay such matters in Islam.
And for your information, I was born a christian and once converted to Islam and went back to being a Christian (A convinced one in the Lordship of Jesus) after understanding many things in Islam

Maybe you should care about your bible more than the Qur'an

sulasa07:

Maybe you should care about your bible more than the Qur'an

..

Thats my point, you people have no basis for your arguments.Are we discussing bible here....FYI- I am more concerned about bible and I am only pointing out where you quran said these things

sulasa07:

Will you decide the whole Muslim population coz of some Hausas in Nigeria,maybe the whole Christians should also be seen as KKK members and Tamil Tigers

I am not deciding the whole muslim population based in some Hausas, I am basing on on Quran verses..Thesame practice is done in Honor Killin in Pakistan and many muslim countries. Are those ones Hausas?

patani:


I am not deciding the whole muslim population based in some Hausas, I am basing on on Quran verses..Thesame practice is done in Honor Killin in Pakistan and many muslim countries. Are those ones Hausas?

Are there no honour killings in India done by Hindus, Honour killings is synonymous to the Asians especially India and Pakistan not the Muslims
Have you read the killing verses from the bible that even said to kill babies(but,arent babies sinless),check the bible first.

patani:
..

Thats my point, you people have no basis for your arguments.Are we discussing bible here....FYI- I am more concerned about bible and I am only pointing out where you quran said these things

It doesn't matter what we are discussing,you said my book contains violent verses but yours contains horrible graphical verses,thats why I told you to check yours first.

From tartar9 and sulasa07's responses you can immediately see the way the warped islamic minds work.
Tell them what is their religious books and their defence is -  "its in other books".
So, as far as they are concerned since other books have them its OK for it to be in Islam's books and tenets. What a defence!

Moslems, the VAST MAJORITY of them, do NOT know or understand what their religion is all about. They can cram the entire Koran into their heads but that is different from true understanding of what islam stands for.

What they do is that they live their lives in line with their INDIVIDUAL or collective agreement on what islam is.

Point CLEAR Koranic verses at them and they will be ready to engage in a "magical" reinterpretation of that verse just as one of them did above. Refer them to the hadith and other Islamic scholars explanations of the same verses and they will DENY even those scholars.

That's when "weak", "fabricated", etc will come up even for islamic books that have hitherto been accepted for centuries.

Bottom line - Moslems want to have a picture of their religion which UNFORTUNATELY their books do not support. Pride, stubbornness and the like will not make them admit their error. They eventually end up living a lie.

sagenaija:
From tartar9 and sulasa07's responses you can immediately see the way the warped islamic minds work.
Tell them what is their religious books and their defence is -  "its in other books".
So, as far as they are concerned since other books have them its OK for it to be in Islam's books and tenets. What a defence!

Moslems, the VAST MAJORITY of them, do NOT know or understand what their religion is all about. They can cram the entire Koran into their heads but that is different from true understanding of what islam stands for.

What they do is that they live their lives in line with their INDIVIDUAL or collective agreement on what islam is.

Point CLEAR Koranic verses at them and they will be ready to engage in a "magical" reinterpretation of that verse just as one of them did above. Refer them to the hadith and other Islamic scholars explanations of the same verses and they will DENY even those scholars.

That's when "weak", "fabricated", etc will come up even for islamic books that have hitherto been accepted for centuries.

Bottom line - Moslems want to have a picture of their religion which UNFORTUNATELY their books do not support. Pride, stubbornness and the like will not make them admit their error. They eventually end up living a lie.

There is a saying:"Show me ur friends,and I will tell you who you are."
When dealing with an Atheist or someone neither Christian nor Jew,I will answer them without refering to the bible and if they are either Christian or jew,I will refer them to in the way of the bible coz thats the only way for them to reason to it and believe.
All the verses he quoted about Apostates has to do with after death not when they are alive.Qnd I don't know how you people seems concerned in a book you are not supposed to believe in.

sulasa07:

There is a saying:"Show me ur friends,and I will tell you who you are."
When dealing with an Atheist or someone neither Christian nor Jew,I will answer them without refering to the bible and if they are either Christian or jew,I will refer them to in the way of the bible coz thats the only way for them to reason to it and believe.
All the verses he quoted about Apostates has to do with after death not when they are alive.Qnd I don't know how you people seems concerned in a book you are not supposed to believe in.

What concerns us is that people are led astray by the book that speaks from both sides of the mouth.

While in one breath the Koran talks about punishing apostates after death, it states on the other hand that they should be killed right away.

If that is not confusing and contradictory enough then what is ?

sagenaija:

What concerns us is that people are led astray by the book that speaks from both sides of the mouth.

While in one breath the Koran talks about punishing apostates after death, it states on the other hand that they should be killed right away.

If that is not confusing and contradictory enough then what is ?

Where did it say to punish an Apostate in the Qur'an, please show me?

sulasa07:

Where did it say to punish an Apostate in the Qur'an, please show me?

Before I show you let me predict your reaction:
Either or a combination of these -
1. That's not what that verse is REALLY saying.
2. You need to understand the CONTEXT.
3. You're not a Moslem so can't explain our Koran for us.

sagenaija:
[s]From tartar9 and sulasa07's responses you can immediately see the way the warped islamic minds work.
Tell them what is their religious books and their defence is -  "its in other books".
So, as far as they are concerned since other books have them its OK for it to be in Islam's books and tenets. What a defence!

Moslems, the VAST MAJORITY of them, do NOT know or understand what their religion is all about. They can cram the entire Koran into their heads but that is different from true understanding of what islam stands for.

What they do is that they live their lives in line with their INDIVIDUAL or collective agreement on what islam is.

Point CLEAR Koranic verses at them and they will be ready to engage in a "magical" reinterpretation of that verse just as one of them did above. Refer them to the hadith and other Islamic scholars explanations of the same verses and they will DENY even those scholars.

That's when "weak", "fabricated", etc will come up even for islamic books that have hitherto been accepted for centuries.

Bottom line - Moslems want to have a picture of their religion which UNFORTUNATELY their books do not support. Pride, stubbornness and the like will not make them admit their error. They eventually end up living a lie.[/s]

My response wasn't to provide any justification for what's in the Quran based on what's found in the Bible.The OP's intention was to claim superiority of his based on what's contained in the Quran,and I simply revealed the contradiction.I made a perfectly logical argument.

sagenaija:

Before I show you let me predict your reaction:
Either or a combination of these -
1. That's not what that verse is REALLY saying.
2. You need to understand the CONTEXT.
3. You're not a Moslem so can't explain our Koran for us.

The verses you are going to bring will be doing with war/battle times.There is no single verse in the Qur'an that says anyone should punish an Apostate.

sagenaija:

Before I show you let me predict your reaction:
Either or a combination of these -
1. That's not what that verse is REALLY saying.
2. You need to understand the CONTEXT.
3. You're not a Moslem so can't explain our Koran for us.

Where is/are the verses?

sulasa07:

The verses you are going to bring will be doing with war/battle times.There is no single verse in the Qur'an that says anyone should punish an Apostate.

sulasa07:

Where is/are the verses?

Koran chapter 4: 88-89
"What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

So, what say you?

Agreed it also contain horror stories.However, Christ death and resurrection nullified all those stories and replaced it with new covenant and that where you missed it and that is where it is totally different from your so called Qoran and preaching of your prophet

sulasa07:

It doesn't matter what we are discussing,you said my book contains violent verses but yours contains horrible graphical verses,thats why I told you to check yours first.

sulasa07:

Are there no honour killings in India done by Hindus, Honour killings is synonymous to the Asians especially India and Pakistan not the Muslims
Have you read the killing verses from the bible that even said to kill babies(but,arent babies sinless),check the bible first.

We are not talking about Hindus..Lets leave those ones for another topic.

We are talking about Islam, so if you av a counter productive verses to disaprove my point and view of many logical Islam critics, please state it here

Meanwhile, I agree bible also contain horror stories.However, Christ death and resurrection nullified all those stories and replaced it with new covenant and that where you missed it and that is where it is totally different from your so called Qoran and preaching of your prophet

Please bring out the verse and highlight where it talked about after life.

Dont just make emotional argument. Remember I tld you I once converted to Islam when I was not sure of hat christianity is all about

so please provide me answers not argue blindly

sulasa07:

There is a saying:"Show me ur friends,and I will tell you who you are."
When dealing with an Atheist or someone neither Christian nor Jew,I will answer them without refering to the bible and if they are either Christian or jew,I will refer them to in the way of the bible coz thats the only way for them to reason to it and believe.
All the verses he quoted about Apostates has to do with after death not when they are alive.Qnd I don't know how you people seems concerned in a book you are not supposed to believe in.

sulasa07:

The verses you are going to bring will be doing with war/battle times.There is no single verse in the Qur'an that says anyone should punish an Apostate.

I have mentioned the verses, please disprove it

sagenaija:



Koran chapter 4: 88-89
"What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

So, what say you?

Is it talking about Apostates or its talking about war times,look at your sense.

patani:


I have mentioned the verses, please disprove it

I don't need to disprove anything,did it mention where anyone should punish anyone,ALLAH specifically said:We will punish them with our punishment.

patani:




We are not talking about Hindus..Lets leave those ones for another topic.

We are talking about Islam, so if you av a counter productive verses to disaprove my point and view of many logical Islam critics, please state it here

Meanwhile, I agree bible also contain horror stories.However, Christ death and resurrection nullified all those stories and replaced it with new covenant and that where you missed it and that is where it is totally different from your so called Qoran and preaching of your prophet

All the evils done swiped away with just one person's death,what about all those that died,for nothing.Christianity is a joke.
Thats called trying to escape being judged for the evils ur god committed,such a stupid excuse.Grace and Mercy my ass.Someone died for your sins,so you can keep on committing your sins.How is ur god different from Ogun,Obatala,Esu that requires human and blood sacrifice,the Romans just modernized and advanced it to look good and beautiful.

sulasa07:

Is it talking about Apostates or its talking about war times,look at your sense.

We can CLEARLY see reference to apostates there in those verses. But NOTHING about war. Do you want to resort to the magic of Islamic "reinterpretation"?

Can you now see what I said from the start?

Explain those verses for all to see. That should make things clearer. Go ahead.

sagenaija:

We can CLEARLY see reference to apostates there in those verses. But NOTHING about war. Do you want to resort to the magic of Islamic "reinterpretation"?

Can you now see what I said from the start?

Explain those verses for all to see. That should make things clearer. Go ahead.

When people argue online about religion,I dont waste my time coz you still won't believe.Where did those verses mention Apostasy.

sulasa07:

When people argue online about religion,I dont waste my time coz you still won't believe.Where did those verses mention Apostasy.

I was right that you'll end up giving excuses.

That game is playing out right now.

Did you see the words "hypocrites" and "disbelieve"?

A person who "disbelieves" is one whose belief about something has changed. A person whose beliefs have changed and who no longer belongs to a religious or political group is called AN APOSTATE.

And what did the Koran say should be done to that person according to the verses above?

The truth about Muslims is that they only recite the koran and on what their imams taught them in the mosque
And they wholly believe their imams with no doubt

sagenaija:



Koran chapter 4: 88-89
"What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

So, what say you?

Why didn't you continue the verse,is the continuation not sweetening to your liking:
Q 4 vs 89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper
Q 4 vs 90
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Q 4 vs 91
You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization.
Now tell me,are you satisfied or should I continue?

sulasa07:

Why didn't you continue the verse,is the continuation not sweetening to your liking:
Q 4 vs 89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper
Q 4 vs 90
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Q 4 vs 91
You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization.
Now tell me,are you satisfied or should I continue?

Satisfied with what? Continue with what?