sulasa07:


Now tell me,are you satisfied or should I continue?

We see from these verses that first, Allah himself made the hypocrites/apostates to go astray, yet he orders them killed.

So there is no ambiguity about Mohamed's policy on full apostates—death.

More references:
according to Maududi.

The Koran

9:73-74 O Prophet, strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be adamant and stern with them . . . they did utter the words of unbelief. Thus, they were guilty of unbelief after they professed Islam . . . If even now they repent of their misbehavior, it will be good for their own selves, but if they do not repent, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the Hereafter . . . . (Maududi, vol. 2, p. 213)


9:123 O Believers, fight with these disbelievers who are near you, and they should find you firm and stern. (Maududi, vol. 2, p. 249)

From the hadith:
Bukhari gives three reasons for shedding a Moslem's blood. One of them is apostasy.

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas [like-for-like punishment] for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

. . . No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

So, when a Moslem like sulasa07 makes a daring claim like "There is no single verse in the Qur'an that says anyone should punish an Apostate." he either doesn't know what he is talking about or he is being out rightly disingenuous.

sulasa07:

All the evils done swiped away with just one person's death,what about all those that died,for nothing.Christianity is a joke.
Thats called trying to escape being judged for the evils ur god committed,such a stupid excuse.Grace and Mercy my ass.Someone died for your sins,so you can keep on committing your sins.How is ur god different from Ogun,Obatala,Esu that requires human and blood sacrifice,the Romans just modernized and advanced it to look good and beautiful.

If you do not understand the concept, ask and we will explain to you...Any controversy you have in Chrsitianity, Ill answer you with scriptures and paste it here boldly not hiding behind emotions like you guys do....

FYI.Chrsit did not die for us to continue in SINs

Romans 6:1-2

1. What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer

On death of Christ for atonement of Sins, It was prophesied many year ago before his arrival. not anything made up by any Roman or Constantine

Zacharia 12: 10 “And zI will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and zpleas for mercy, so that, awhen they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, bthey shall mourn for him, cas one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Many scriptures cited him before he lived

You can ask me any question bro

sulasa07:

I don't need to disprove anything,did it mention where anyone should punish anyone,ALLAH specifically said:We will punish them with our punishment.

Yes, many verses talked about punishing Apostates

Below

Quran 16:106 - He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

Christians criticizing other religious texts always make me laugh

TVSA:
Christians criticizing other religious texts always make me laugh

No one is criticizing..we only telling them to explain what we do not understand..Just like you are talking about communio and other Chrsitian practice without understanding. If you ask, we will explain

patani:



No one is criticizing..we only telling them to explain what we do not understand..Just like you are talking about communio and other Chrsitian practice without understanding. If you ask, we will explain

I understand it, you don't need to explain to me. Hope you will listen to an Ogun worshipper's explanation why s/he makes rituals.

[quote author=sulasa07 post=83631318]
Why didn't you continue the verse,is the continuation not sweetening to your liking:
Q 4 vs 89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper
Q 4 vs 90
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Q 4 vs 91
You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [th

sulasa07:

Q 4 vs 89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper
Q 4 vs 90
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Q 4 vs 91
You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to

baseless and pointless[s]

sulasa07:

Q 4 vs 89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper
Q 4 vs 90
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Q 4 vs 91
You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to

baseless and pointless[/s]

sulasa07:

Q 4 vs 89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper
Q 4 vs 90
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Q 4 vs 91
You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to

baseless and pointless

BOFREJO:

baseless and pointless
baseless and pointless
baseless and pointless

Of course, it's baseless and pointless.

sulasa07:

Of course, .

More from Hadith:
Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal: AbuMusa said: Mu'adh came to me when I was in the Yemen. A man who was Jew embraced Islam and then retreated from Islam. When Mu'adh came, he said: I will not come down from my mount until he is killed. He was then killed. One of them said: He was asked to repent before that.
Sunan Abu Dawud 38:4341

Sirah
Ibn Ishaq
"The apostle had instructed his commanders when they entered Mecca only to fight those who resisted them, except a small number who were to be killed even if they were found beneath the curtains of the Kaba. Among them was Abdullah Sa'd, brother of the B. Amir Luayy. The reason he ordered him to be killed was that he had been a Muslim and used to write down revelation; then he apostatized and returned to Quraysh [Mecca] and fled to Uthman Affan whose foster brother he was. The latter hid him until he brought him to the apostle after the situation in Mecca was tranquil, and asked that he might be granted immunity. They allege that the apostle remained silent for a long time till finally he [Muhammad] said yes [granting Abdullah immunity from the execution order]. When Uthman had left he [Muhammad] said to his companions who were sitting around him, ‘I kept silent so that one of you might get up and strike off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, "Then why didn't you give me a sign, O apostle of God?’ He answered that a prophet does not kill by pointing."
Ishaq p. 550

sagenaija:


More from Hadith:
Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal: AbuMusa said: Mu'adh came to me when I was in the Yemen. A man who was Jew embraced Islam and then retreated from Islam. When Mu'adh came, he said: I will not come down from my mount until he is killed. He was then killed. One of them said: He was asked to repent before that.
Sunan Abu Dawud 38:4341

Sirah
Ibn Ishaq
"The apostle had instructed his commanders when they entered Mecca only to fight those who resisted them, except a small number who were to be killed even if they were found beneath the curtains of the Kaba. Among them was Abdullah Sa'd, brother of the B. Amir Luayy. The reason he ordered him to be killed was that he had been a Muslim and used to write down revelation; then he apostatized and returned to Quraysh [Mecca] and fled to Uthman Affan whose foster brother he was. The latter hid him until he brought him to the apostle after the situation in Mecca was tranquil, and asked that he might be granted immunity. They allege that the apostle remained silent for a long time till finally he [Muhammad] said yes [granting Abdullah immunity from the execution order]. When Uthman had left he [Muhammad] said to his companions who were sitting around him, ‘I kept silent so that one of you might get up and strike off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, "Then why didn't you give me a sign, O apostle of God?’ He answered that a prophet does not kill by pointing."
Ishaq p. 550

And what about this?

sulasa07:

And what about this?

On the first one; that is islam double speaking.

On the second one; SEE the full verse - " Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Is Islam accepting what was given to the children of Israel?
If so, is it only this or the entire Torah ?

sagenaija:

On the first one; that is islam double speaking.

On the second one; SEE the full verse - " Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Is Islam accepting what was given to the children of Israel?
If so, is it only this or the entire Torah ?

As we believe and say,not even as we believe but has it is,The Old testament and new testament of today arent the real thing,they are fake,how can Moses be writing about his own death,tell me.
The true Israelites were taught about One God,not 3 in 1 weak god.

sagenaija:

On the first one; that is islam double speaking.

On the second one; SEE the full verse - " Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Is Islam accepting what was given to the children of Israel?
If so, is it only this or the entire Torah ?

The decree giving to the true Israelites not the fake Satanyahu of fake Israel is the same as us.Believe in one GOD and glorify your LORD not worship some human like myself.

sulasa07:

The decree giving to the true Israelites not the fake Satanyahu of fake Israel is the same as us.Believe in one GOD and glorify your LORD not worship some human like myself.

First, I wanted to point out how Moslems, in a bid to prove their case, quote part of a verse in the Koran and hide the rest. It is clear here that the verse primarily refers to the children of Israel. But because of Islam's hatred for Israel, Moslems who quote it always quote it in part and not in full; not stating where Israel is mentioned, and claim that that is Allah's injunction to Moslems. Not giving credit to whom credit is due shows a lack of sincerity.

You pointed out that verse from the Koran without explaining it in context.

You saw that the verses I quoted talked about killing the apostate. You apparently believe otherwise. So, how do you pick and choose which one to put into practice?

If Islam doesn't confuse you then it can only be because you have become so gullible as to have bought into its lies and confusions

sulasa07:
Of course, it's baseless and pointless.

so you know

TVSA:

I understand it, you don't need to explain to me. Hope you will listen to an Ogun worshipper's explanation why s/he makes rituals.

.

ok Good luck

sulasa07:

I don't need to disprove anything,did it mention where anyone should punish anyone,ALLAH specifically said:We will punish them with our punishment.

absolutely

patani:


absolutely

Yes

Learning