weedtaker:
doesn't these have to do more with the way the team is set up? Liverpool for instance gets their creativity from their full backs, under Ferguson we use our wingers, I think even Alves was creating more chances than xavi and iniesta under Guardiola.

Ibime:


Another Elampiro classic

elampiro:


Generally, forward players (wingers, number 10 and number 9) create most chances in every team and league. There may be a rare situation where another player is doing well. But usually a rare situation.

The way team is set up has little to do with it.

Ibime:


When did Fabregas play in the hole for Chelsea?

elampiro:


Under Mourinho second coming. He used Oscar or Fabregas in the hole.

weedtaker:
I agree with dis.

I don't agree with dis, the way a team is set up plays a part, take our game against Liverpool for instance, they didn't create many chances cuz we didn't allow their full backs into the game, leaving mane and firmino clueless in attack.

weedtaker:
No, fabregas played as deep lying playmaker, his chance creation stats was boosted due to him being in charge of set piece.

I think from open play hazard was the highest creator.

elampiro:


But De Bruyne is not a midfielder

elampiro:
Where were their full backs last season when Liverpool won the UCL?

The front three are still the highest contribution to CC, although they have a defender that has risen atop this season.

raumdeuter:


Facts alone. Let Martial play under a better coach and you will see

Not these NYSC coaches

raumdeuter:


17 goals in all competitions that season under LvG

patrickmuf:
I don't understand...

airmark:



Mumu excuse, as if other players didn't shine under Mou.

airmark:


17 goals in 49 matches, is 'did well' for you.

weedtaker:
What? they were phenomenal! .

elampiro:


The argument is simple. Generally, naturally, attacking players are the creators. However, we have on rare occasion defenders like Baines, and came top. If Baines did not craete that much, he wouldn't be held liable. But Silva, Mata would be held liable. Same way you would not hold Fenadinho liable if he doesn't create.



How? DM and CM do not have primary duty to create. It is the Wingers and Central Attacking Midfielder (number10 in the hole) who have this primary function, then number 9.



Professional analysts always separate chances created from open play from chances created from set play. Chances created from set play can tilt figures in favour of someone taking all the set plays.

elampiro:


De Brunye is traditionally number 10 or wing forward.

It is same reason Ashley Young can do well with stats. He was a winger too.

codedguy1:



There so many holes to pick on this your reply but I no get time to argue.

The crux of the discussion was chances created and not how they were created.

Some of the 60% set piece you are degrading from young could have been created/acquired by these same players you expect yo create.

Maybe in the process of creating the chances they were fouled and got a free kick or corner

Na for strikers to convert the CC naaim be the koko regardless of who create it.

patrickmuf:
De Bruyne from any position will still do well.

When Manchester City attacks, you see Mendy on the left stretching the play, Aguero is always in the box, Sterling tucks in to add more bodies in the box, Bernardo Silva tucks in too to allow Walker the space to drive forward, De Bruyne moves toward the right wing waiting for a cut back so can whoop in those his devilish crosses. In front of the defence, David Silva and Gundogan are waiting to recycle possession and in midfield, you have the CBs who push forward to narrow the pitch.

At Liverpool, Robertson and TAA occupy the wings when Liverpool attack allowing Mane and Salah to tuck in giving them more options in the box, Firmino drops to the edge of the box...Thats 5 players in that attacking sequence. To cover for the overlapping full backs, Henderson moves to the RW in any case of a counter, Van Dijk and Matip push up close to the midfield and Fabinho is stationed around the modified to stop provide cover with Wijnaldum ahead to recycle possession...

At United when we aatck, Rashford gets the ball, he starts running, when he looks for options, he can't pass to Martial because he is heavily marked, thus he turns and passes back to Young. Same thing happens when James has the ball, he begins to run but there's no overlapping full back or AMF in the same wavelength and with Martial heavily marked, he elects to go it alone until he is dispossessed or fouled. I have seen enough of our games where you'll find yourself screaming that Young and AWB should bomb forward but no (Young is even better). Pereira who should be very close to the attacks will be couple of yards behind thus we have to delay the play to allow them chance to join the attack by which time the opposition has regrouped. McTominay has been trying of late but he arrives late and most times his shots ends up being blocked...Watch our games and you'll observe what I am trying to point out, as a midfielder and even defender, you progress with the movement of the ball, how will we be on the attack yet Maguire, Lindelof and in some cases Rojo will be seen very deep in our half of the pitch? In a normal scenario, Rashford and James shouldn't be the ones whooping in balls, that's the work of our fullbacks and our midfielders should be around the dge of the box or thereabout with the defenders close to the midfield especially when we are up against small teams.

elampiro:


Nani did not have this excuse when they played in front of Wes Brown. Sometimes it was Brown on the right, Oshea on the left and Nani in front of Brown, Rooney in front of Osea. They still won heavily. No excuse.

Our forward players cannot breakdown defence. chikena. Luke Shaw was in form last season playing behind those guys, it was same story. Pogba plays too, same story.

raumdeuter:


[s]How many seasons did Hazard have more that 17 goals in the season despite being the chief penalty taker for his team

These are Hazard your MCMs goals contribution in the 7 seasons at Chelsea

Hazard 2018/19 21 goals in 52 games
2017/18 17 goals in 51 matches
2016/17 17 goals in 43 matches
2015/16 6 goals in 43 matches
2014/15 19 goals in 52 matches
2013/14 17 goals in 49matches
2012/13 13 goals in 62 matches
[/s]

larride:


Did Lukaku outscore Martial or not?

larride:

Did Lukaku outscore Martial or not?

elampiro:
The defender needs a player in front of him to be creative for him to also be creative.

Is it defender that makes them to miss penalties? To miss clear headers from six yard? To keep shooting wayward from edge of the box? To no make an intelligent through ball or lob over the defence?

elampiro:
The defender needs a player in front of him to be creative for him to also be creative.

Is it defender that makes them to miss penalties? To miss clear headers from six yard? To keep shooting wayward from edge of the box? To no make an intelligent through ball or lob over the defence?

patrickmuf:
When we had Nani, you had an Evra who was like a left winger when we attacked, you had Giggs who dropped deep to free up space for a marauding Evra, we had Scholes who could switch play to our advantage with a raking long ball from midfield, we had Berbatov and Rooney in the box enough bodies in attack to stretch the opposition. Scholes sef joined the attack as soon as we went forward.

And Brown didn't play as our RB in many games.

patrickmuf:
At Barcelona, who was in front of Alves?

If you watch Manchester City (Zichenko/Mendy and Walker) , Liverpool (Robertson and TAA) , Barcelona (Alba), Madrid (Marcelo and Carvajal), Bayern (Alaba and Kimmich), Juventus (Alex Sandro), Dortmund (Guerrero and Piszczek), Chelsea (Emerson/Alonso), Atletico (Formally Juan Fran and Felipe Luis now Trippier) and can't get the point we are making about overlapping fullbacks, I am sorry I can't help you.

Our midfield is even worse...

elampiro:


There times injuries forced us to play what I will call second eleven. So even with the scenario I painted above, Nani will still be single handedly shaking defence on the right.

You guys think even if we bring Xavi, the likes of Pereira will begin to perform magic? These attacking players have to lift their games. But Pereira as a number 10 or a right winger is a let down already.