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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) (6581468 Views)
Am I The Only One Whos Tired Of This Kenya Is Ahead Thread / Femi Adesina: "I Don't Lie, No Matter What"; Nigerians React / Kenyans Are Far Behind Nigerians In Every Aspect – Fani-Kayode (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 10:51am On Nov 14, 2019 |
That should be the norm - not the exception. samorobo: |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by vaxx2: 10:54am On Nov 14, 2019 |
Obiano13:He wanted to know about Ghana thru iron hand ... |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 10:59am On Nov 14, 2019 |
Let me ignore the cheap potshots and see if there is any substance here. 1) We don't yet have Ghana cement consumption and production - we have wild figures. I already gave up on both of you getting the data. So I will go fishing for them when I have time. 2) I think if Kenya cement consumption and production had not sturred after rate capping - it certainly would have shot past 10m - would have been around 12m by now. It was nearly 7M in 2016 before the interest rate capping and had been rising annually since 2002 from 2m metrics tonnes. 3) Like I told you yesterday - your macro-economics are rather shocking! MPR of 16-18% - average interest of 24-31%. 4) Kenya Interest rate has not been that worse - even before they were capped - the worst Kenya has ever gone in last two decades I think is 19-20%. 5) Finally, I don't see IMF taking a break from managing your economy. Double-Digit Inflation (underlying at 8%). The currency on a free fall. MPR of 16-18%. Show me a country that is NOT at war that has similar economic fundamentals. Maybe Zimbwabwe only. If Ghana was better managed - it wouldn't have called IMF for a record 16 times to bail it out. vaxx2: 2 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 11:14am On Nov 14, 2019 |
The Economist nails Ghana phoney economy like a jelly to the wall. https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/06/22/after-its-16th-bail-out-ghana-hopes-to-put-the-imf-behind-it Excerpts Fifty-three years after the imf first bailed out Ghana, the 16th rescue package for the country ended in April. The fund now praises the government’s economic management. A glowing staff report said Ghana had tamed inflation (which fell back to 9% this year after reaching 17% in 2016). Now we know why they had to re-base A rebasing of gdp last year has flattered the country’s balance-sheet. Ghana’s debt-to-gdpratio, which hit 73% in 2016, looks quite tame this year at 62% (it would have been 76% under the old gdp measure). But you cannot re-base yourself of a sick economy But simply changing the estimated size of the economy does not magically bring in more tax. Interest payments still consume one-third of government revenues, which is more than it spends on education or health. Increasing the amount raised in taxes will be tough, because most of the economy is informal. The imf notes that taxes make up a smaller share of gdp(14% in Ghana) than in most other developing countries and classifies it as being at “high risk of debt distress”. Kenya and Nigeria better Investors are also wary and demand much higher interest rates to hold Ghana’s foreign-currency bonds compared with Nigeria’s or Kenya’s And finally Ghana problem is so circular - ramp up debt and cry to IMF for bailout This time he might do better by breaking the old pattern of running up debts before an election, only to turn to the imf afterwards for another bail-out. And my conclusion: I have always thought Ghana to be a progressive nation - now I know better. It a typical mismanaged banana economy at mercy of IMF & Aid agencies. In fact, I dare say Nigerians seem to have better handle of the economy. 2 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 11:17am On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:so you finally accepted you are not up to Ghana consumption level Good luck doubling your cement consumption to reach Ghana's level |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 11:19am On Nov 14, 2019 |
I accept facts. We don't have a choice, do we?. Facts are stubborn things. Once we have at least some credibel cements stats for say 2018 we can continue the debate. We don't need luck - the real estate and construction industry need credit - and they will recover. Just30: |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by vaxx2: 11:34am On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:what nonsense of garbage do you empty down as a post ? 1 if those two credible source i splash on your skull isn't enough , how can I trust your inteligence further? At least judging from the fact that you hide under blog instead of fact. keep fishing ... 2 .. You are so demented to be thinking without data , how can you be thinking irrationally, your interest rate was as a result of your continuous poor growth in lending rate particularly the poor incentives to lend. which your poor goverment wanted to physically stop .hope you know how your micro economy suffers. your illiterate goverment failed to know nothing will change, neither on the true pricing of loans nor on returns on deposits but may damper ability to borrow. since the risky now become very high. Before the interest was introduced was capped your bank are sluggishly lending , is it when it is capped that lending will flow? investment and capital project are not flowing to your country, thatbis what is striving off your goverment pulse. your reserve is gradually empty when majority of it are used on import instead of capital investment. salaries consumed most of your budget. all this are the thru risk to your economy palaver . and the further reason your cement consumption rate is shrinking.. Ghana on the order hand continue to receive high volume of investment both in energy, Agriculture and mining sector. causing lots of dollars to swim into goverment pulse which leads to Ghana ability to strenghten reserve and maintain capital expenditure....this directly leads to Ghana high cement consumption rate. 3 stop lying . Ghana MPR is just at 16 percent while lending rate is at 24 percent . that of kenya is between 19 to 18. which was politically cook and not economically determined . 4 Your economy has been that worst , it is due to that that your goverment blindly cap your interest rate to improve borrowing trends of her citizens.... 5 I don't understand why you keep on repeating history, Ghana had once been poorly managed like kenya before, but thanks to prudent governance of 2010, since then, all have become history, your country’s previous credit fercility with IMF is around 1 billion which expired in late 2018 after your government failed to meet the IMF’s conditions for an extension, including the repeal of a cap on commercial lending that the they warn your goverment about. ... maybe once you agree to reduce your continue growing fiscal deficit , just maybe IMF will consider you again as it look like you are calling for them for bail out of your debt to debt triangle.... . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 12:01pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Your base insults is not a substitute for a sound argumentation. Try it on someone else - it doesn't work on me. I am laser-focused on facts - always. 1) I gave you kenya cement data - if you can find me something nearly similar - that would be awesome. 2) Spend some time to familiarize yourselve more on kenya economy if you want to argue. 3) Kenya was last like Ghana in btw 1993-1996. It was the worst economic period in Kenya history. That Ghana is there on normal year is shocking. That period of 93-96 took some years to clean up - including firing many civil servants. That period saw Kshs drop from 20shs to a dollar to something like 50-60shs - and as high 70s. Interest rate shot - with MPR at 20-25. I am not sure if we had IMF bailout - but what I know - Moi lied to IMF for a record 5 times and never really implemented whatever IMF mission wanted in 90s. https://tradingeconomics.com/kenya/interest-rate - check out 25 yr data series. 4) That period 93-96 saw Kenyans for first time lining up in a long queue to go abroad. I think Kikuyu probably left around that time. That this happens now in West Africa is not surprising. You are living through a horror nearly most of your life. 5) After Kenya kicked out KANU party in 2002 - the country made a turn for the better - and queues literally disappeared - I personally had no reason to go abroad like my previous generation. Kshs grew strong from 70s to highs 60s - and over that period - to now - when many africa currrencies have tumbled over - Kshs have depricates from Kshs 63 to Kshs 100 - possibly one of Africa Strongest performance. 6) Pre rate capping - Kenya MPR was hovering btw 7-9% - and post MPR - it got stuck there - because CBK was trying to help banks. Kenya interest rate pre and post rate capping has never been worse. The average post 2015 - lending rates is around 15%. 7) Kenya has not been in any IMF bailout programme. IMF gave kenya an standby facility of 1.5B dollars during the period when nearly all africa currencies were tumbling down. And we never withdrew even a coin - because Kshs was resilent. At the time of the inception of support, Fitch-rated African sovereigns under IMF arrangements in 2017 (excluding Kenya, who considered its IMF arrangement precautionary and has not drawn on it) https://www.ft.com/content/a279ecd6-2908-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0 Please don't tell anybody else about Ghana macro-economics - shush it. They are horrible. Kenya have always had very good macro-economics except for brief period of early 90s - but from 1963 to 2019 - things been very good. 9) Kenya has NEVER ever defaulted. Not even when we had sanctions from west in 90s. Nearly all African countries collapsed at some point but Kenya is one of those rare countries - because we have always had a well-diversified open market non-mineral economy . Kenya economic resilience is well known - in fact when the west were crashing economies in Africa, toppling gov and installing dictators or military - they never were able to replicate that in Kenya. Kenya has never failed to pay salaries or pensions or meet it's an obligation in it's entire history. vaxx2: 2 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Acadavah: 12:17pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
vaxx2: According to Vaxx this 1&2 Ghanaians hospitals are real while 3%4 Tanzanians are not.
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Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 12:36pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:exactly so how Ghanaians are still able to remain competitive on the African level show the depth of worth of a Ghanaian |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Jonraid(m): 12:37pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Traffic and Jacaranda Nairobi,Kenya Roads sandwiched between lining up trees! Things you'd love to see! 2 Likes
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Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Jonraid(m): 12:39pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Taken from the 17th floor! Nairobi 1 Like
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Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Acadavah: 12:44pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
IMF October economic outlook Tanzania's gdp 62.22 and growth of 5.2%. Where are those kenyans with their projections of 4%. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/profile/TZA/WEO
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Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 12:45pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:this rant you've been on for days now was simply resolved with the Cement output can consumption levels of both countries. whiles both Tanzania and Kenya lack behind Nigeria and Ghana in consumption that single fact basically means both Tanzania and Kenya are underdeveloping compare to Nigeria and Ghana 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 12:50pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
vaxx2:I told you yesterday that ECG will be listed on the Ghanaian stock exchange. If ECG gets listed, the pressure will move to list VRA unto the exchange as well 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 12:51pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
vaxx2:Abuja hasnt really grown since the last time i visited before my last week visit. the current expansion of Abuja is happening in it slums 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 12:52pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Tenaciously clutching at the cement straws. This was 2015 Just30: 3 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 12:53pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Magufuli is claiming the economy grew by 7%. Stop cooking. IMF are saying 5.2%. Acadavah: 2 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 12:59pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:when facts stairs you in the face and is against your narrative, you cant seem to accept it |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Jonraid(m): 1:01pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
1.Night time 2.Grinding in the cCity 3.Colourful UON education building 4.On your way to Marsabit 1 Like
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Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Acadavah: 1:03pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:The AfDB said 6.6% are they cooking also? |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 1:04pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
I am patient - and I have lots of time - because I am on my vacation. Cement Industry Ghana. Ghacem is the country’s largest cement producer -With a 54% market share. Diamond follows with 33%, Savannah with 13%. Dangote 5%? So basically if we focus on Ghacem - we will know just how big your industry really is. Ghacem last year sold 56m bags (56*50=2.8M metric tonnes)...and this year they are targetting 60m bags. https://www.globalcement.com/news/item/8675-ghacem-aiming-for-3mt-production-target-in-2019 So we can conclude that Dangote was right - Ghana last year cement consumption ( again I am being generous - not sliced those exported) - was 6M was be tops. The accurate figure. 54%=2.8m metrics tonnes....100% =5.2m metric tonnes in 2018 Just30: 2 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Problemkid1: 1:05pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
samorobo:Place looks like where they're doing dry cleaner |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 1:06pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
For two years you've cooked. Magufuli has the incentive to cook - he is going for re-election. Last year IMF said based on your cooked data - the economy grew by 3.9% - and TZ claimed 7% - and again this year they got called out - and they said they will 'review' the numbers based on IMF recommendations. We know they will only do this on their dead bodies. You cannot cook your way out of economic morass - foreign investors are fleeing the country - Acadavah: 2 Likes |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by vaxx2: 1:16pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:I actually bully idiot ( I mean those who don't use their personal brain but follow mantra like a deluded he goat .... 1 The two factual information I have given to you are objectively verified and you keep on rejecting because dangote assumption says otherwise? even with dangote fact at 6 million consumption rate, the fact keeps telling you on you your face that Ghana isn't kenya mate. the per head diffrence is just too huge , you may need to gulping at 13 million consumption rate before you can meet that . 2... I actually know kenya economy model now and i can give you an informed judgement which we be better credible than you idiot . As an informed mind myself , I only need just a handful of some literature about you economy model. and that will be enough to give me valid judgement . 3. You stupidly don't know one quater of a financial year is enough to turm around economy ? yoir present worrisome economy was what Ghana was facing in early 2000. borrowing to pay debt instead of following a payment plan from the revenue of a nation or on bilateral trade which sound more prudent and better less risky.... Ghana current monitary policy remain at 16 percent and lending rate at 24 percent while yours even at capped was 18. An easy thing for goverment to-do In Ghana but not prudent because of the flaws effect it will have on microeconomics . Kenya case is a typical example . 4. ..Your kenya history of bad economy management is still not diffrence from now, your economy hardly grow above 4 percent which is the same everywhere except for Nigeria, Angola and south Africa . egen at that , your 4 percent growth is not translating into the living standard of kenya . you have barely manage poverty and hunger. You are still a high net importer of food amd at a very high riak of food shortage . you have been identify as emergency nation unlike Ghana, cote devoire, Ethiopia and ruwanda who still maintain 7 percent growth. and directly keep improving the standard living of their people . very soon ruwanda will overtake your position, their HDI is improving sonfast and better than country in east Africa. 5 comparing your massage economy to that of Ghana is laughable..comparing that has its inflation rate fallen from 15.4 percent in December 2016 to 7.6 percent in September 2019, Even the 91-day treasury bill as fallen from 17 percent to 14.7 percent. On the external front, the trade deficit has improved 1.8 billion in 2016 to a surplus of US$2.6 billion... About 1.2 million students have been enrolled in SHS because of the free SHS programme and their parents relieved of the burden of fee. place about 1 hunderd thousand gaduates on temporary opportunities in a work environment and securing about 10, 000 permanent jobs for them .... employing about 55 thousand nurses on permanent job and additional 48 thousand permanent job for the teachers for just 2019 ...bringing unemwployement down to 2 percent. is that what you want to compare with kenya .... There is reason IMF refused to continue the credit fercility with you? go and learn and you goverment are also on the move to meet them again...hope youbare aware But enjoy this....... Ghana achievement on agriculture for the year 2018... “A total production of 1,505,850mt of cereals and legumes and 405,630mt of vegetables with a total value of GH¢1.55 billion and GH¢3.43 billion respectively was achieved between 2017 and 2018 alone. Yields of targeted crops recorded significant improvements over 2016 levels: maize yield increased by 89 percent from 1.8mt/ha to 3.4mt/ha; rice yield increased by 48 percent from 2.7mt/ha to 4.0mt/ha and soya yield increased by 200 percent from 1mt/ha to 3.0mt/ha.” Minister of finance ..... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 1:18pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:you are really stubborn oo how hard must it be for you to accept common facts you can go back 6 pages for the 2018 figures of Ghana while Ghana was consuming 5.6 million metric tonnes from 2008 or so with a steady growth, Ghana consumption has grown to a disputed 8 and 8.6 million metric tonnes in 2018 whiles production is at 15 million disputing it will not make the figures less true or you want us to go to 2019 economic data from both countries. since we both know that, when people become more wealthy, they spend more on luxury homes and cars. the purchasing power of a Ghanaian is 6300 dollars or so and that of a Kenyan is 3000 dollars. This is why the cement consumption level of Ghana is double that of Kenya. arguing it will not make it less true. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by vaxx2: 1:19pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Just30:The finance minister just indicate that on the 17 billion dollar.... that will improve the market capitalization of the stock exchange but on VRA.... that will be interesting. Ghana stick exchange will becoming powerful..... ECG can only be listed if it is privatised I guess . so let's wait and see how goverment is going about privatizing it... |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 1:20pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182: |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by vaxx2: 1:22pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Just30:The guy is just daft ? 2015 for a discussion of 2019.... what a stubborn idiot .... |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by Just30: 1:23pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
vaxx2:GOIL is not a private company, ADB is not private |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by vaxx2: 1:24pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
rvp20182:Even at 6 million dangote report you claim to agree with . we are still miles ahead of of you per head . you need to consume something around 10 million to beat that? Your failure to accept corection is a testament of your stupidity and ignorance. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Kenya Is Ahead of Nigeria In All Aspect (Facts Don't Lie) by rvp20182: 1:24pm On Nov 14, 2019 |
Again ignoring the insults, this is long on polemics, and short on facts. Actually now that I checked your cement production was actually about 5.2M metric tonnes. Kenya would be around double that - if it was not for interest rate capping. Our real estate sector has declined by 20% annually since 2016 (rate capping outprized the industry from credit market) - and cement production & has flattened out https://www.nation.co.ke/business/Real-estate-sector-performance-dropped/996-5305698-1i2llt/index.html Now regarding Ghana - your economy looks like a war-torn nation - growing 20% this year - and then 1% next year - then you call for IMF bailout - IMF come to Accra and fix it - and you repeat the cycle. Honestly without your mining and oil industry - GOLD COAST aka Ghana would not be any different from Somalia. vaxx2: 2 Likes |
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